wc 852 lot baj 47288


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brassbullets12
April 14, 2013, 11:24 AM
this probally has been hashed before, but i need some answers. i have looked on a lot of web sites, nobody has a real answer. i have a couple of jugs bought a while back wc 852 lot baj 47288. i wanted it for the garand, but i think its too slow. i have a large supply of 175 gr match king.308 diam wonder if the larger bullet could be loaded with this powder in the garand ? , i was going to load 150 gr too. i have some imr 4895 for that.. also wondering if it could be loaded in 308 bolt or semi using 175 ? i almost wished i hadn't bought it.
thanks for any real info.

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medalguy
April 14, 2013, 12:03 PM
Can't really answer your question, never tried 852 with a heavy bullet, but that powder IIRC was manufactured for .30-06 tracer ammo which requires a 144 gr bullet. You would need to work up a load for a heavier bullet and I don't know how well that particular powder would work. Does this help any???

brassbullets12
April 14, 2013, 01:09 PM
i really bought it for the 150, but i have been told everywhere else it is too slow. i am wondering what i can load with it. i did use it one time and they were from memory about 300 to 500 feet slower than what it should have been, i could get more powder in cases, but i have beeen told not to use it in my garands, i know a lot of this was sold, i got it from hi-tech and gibrass. i might need to call jeff barlett ,he might be able to give me a good idea.
thanks for reply

SlamFire1
April 14, 2013, 02:10 PM
For IMR 4895 loads and the Garand, search the site, I am sure I have posted lots of advice on 168’s and 175’s in Garands with IMR 4895.

I have data sheets for two lots of WC 852. Accurate Arms bought a 90,000 pound lot and sold it as AA2700. All lots have different burn rates. My lot of WC 852 is Lot BAJ 47287. This powder was specifically tested for use in M1 Garand rifles with a 150 grain bullet.

I bought my lot of WC852 from Jeff Barnett of GI Brass early in the 90’s. This powder works well in a number of high pressure cartridges. You will see the cartridges which the velocities were too slow , such as the 308. My lot is too slow for any practical purpose in the 308 Win. It will shoot very well with stock M1 Garands with 150 or 174 FMJBT bullets.

Some of my 30-06 data I used Federals in my Garands. This was long ago, before I had two out of battery slamfires with Federals in Garands. Even though I am posting data, I do not recommend Federals or any primer that is “more sensitive” in a Garand. I recommend “mil spec” primers: CCI #34’s or Tula7.62.


The amount of data I am posting is overkill, if you search you will find my loads that worked well in my Garands.

30-06 Govt Loading Data: Lot BAJ 47287

Lake City case and Primer, 60.1 grs
WC852, 152 gr Ball M2, average pressure 40,200 velocity 2750






.243 Chronograph Data

M70 Featherweight Classic Factory Barrel


100 grain Sierra Spitzier, 40.0 grs wtd WC852, R-P cases, FED 210S OAL 2.670"
10 Mar 02 T= 48 F

Ave Vel = 2551
Std Dev = 24
ES = 49
Low = 2524
High = 2573
N = 4

100 grain Sierra Spitzier, 41.0 grs wtd WC852, R-P cases, FED 210S OAL 2.670"

10 Mar 02 T= 48 F
Ave Vel = 2527
Std Dev = 14
ES = 33
Low = 2512
High = 2545
N = 5

100 grain Sierra Spitzier SP 43.0 grs WC 852 wtd, R-P cases, FED 210S OAL 2.60"
24 Mar 04 T= 70 F

Ave Vel = 2768
Std Dev = 22
ES = 77
Low = 2733
High = 2810
N = 10

100 grain Sierra Spitzier SP 45.0 grs WC 852 wtd, R-P cases, FED 210S OAL 2.60"
24 Mar 04 T= 70 F

Ave Vel = 2870
Std Dev = 11
ES = 22
Low = 2858
High = 2880
N = 3


6.5X55 Chronograph Data

M38 Infantry Carbine 24" barrel

140 Speer SP (.263") 50.0 grs WC852 L.S. 3.4 CBC cases Fed 210M OAL 3.050"
5-Jan-94 T ≈ 40 F
Ave Vel = 2741
Std Dev = 11
ES = 29
Low = 2730
High = 2759
N = 5


M38 Calvary Carbine 24" Barrel

140 Hornady (.264") 41.5 grs WS852 Hansen cases Fed 210S OAL 3.050"
20-Mar-94 T ≈ 78 F
Ave Vel = 2224
Std Dev = 26
ES = 86
Low = 2172
High = 2258
N = 10


140 Hornady (.264") 46.0 grs WS852 (L.S. 3.1) Hansen cases Fed 210S OAL 3.050"
20-Mar-94 T ≈ 78 F
Ave Vel = 2468
Std Dev = 12
ES = 29
Low = 2457
High = 2486
N = 5
stiff bolt lift all rounds


M700 22" Barrel

140 gr Rem PSP 47.0 grs WC852 wtd Norma brass CCI-200 OAL 3.000"

2 Feb 2008 T = 52 F

Ave Vel = 2494
Std Dev = 19
ES = 63
High = 2520
Low = 2457
N = 10
Best accuracy of series

140 gr Rem PSP 48.0 grs WC852 wtd Norma brass CCI-200 OAL 3.000"

2 Feb 2008 T = 52 F

Ave Vel = 2541
Std Dev = 11
ES = 39
High = 2563
Low = 2524
N = 10

140 gr Rem PSP 49.0 grs WC852 wtd Norma brass CCI-200 OAL 3.000"

2 Feb 2008 T = 52 F

Ave Vel = 2607
Std Dev = 12
ES = 37
High = 2624
Low = 2587
N = 10


140 gr Rem PSP 50.0 grs WC852 wtd Norma brass CCI-200 OAL 3.000"

2 Feb 2008 T = 52 F

Ave Vel = 2669
Std Dev = 13
ES = 40
High = 2680
Low = 2640
N = 10
definite increase in bolt lift, but not "sticky"

7X57 Chronograph Data


M1908/34 Brazilian 22" Barrel

139 gr Hornady FB 50.0 grs WC852 Lee Scoop 3.4 R/P cases Fed 210S

23-Jul-95 T ≈ 85 F

Ave Vel = 2500
Std Dev = 2
ES = 3
Low = 2498
High = 2501
N = 2

270 Winchester


FN Deluxe 24" Barrel
new Wolff 22 pound mainspring


150 gr Speer Flat Base 55.0 grains WC852 wtd R-P cases FED 201S OAL 3.300"

14 Mar 2012 T = 80 F

Ave Vel = 2762
Std Dev = 25
ES = 75
High = 2811
Low = 2736
N = 10
outstanding accuracy, best to date with this rifle

150 gr Speer Flat Base 57.0 grains WC852 wtd R-P cases FED 201S OAL 3.300"

14 Mar 2012 T = 80 F

Ave Vel = 2876
Std Dev = 14
ES = 43
High = 2895
Low = 2852
N = 9

7.5X55 Chronograph Data


7.5 x 55 Swiss Model K-31

174gr .308 FMJBT 54.0 gr wt'd WC852 Norma Cases, Fed210S OAL 2.925

9-Mar-97 T= 70F

Ave Vel = 2424
Std Dev = 16
ES = 32
Low = 2411
High = 2443

174gr .308 FMJBT 56.5 gr wt'd WC852 Norma cases, Fed210S OAL 2.900

30-Apr-97 T= 75F

Ave Vel = 2499
Std Dev = 35
ES = 95
Low = 2443
High = 2538

174gr .308 FMJBT 57.0 gr wt'd WC852 Norma cases, Fed210S OAL 2.900

30-Apr-97 T= 75F

Ave Vel = 2563
Std Dev = 24
ES = 59
Low = 2543
High = 2602


165 gr BTSP Hornady 55.0 gr WC852, 284 Win Brass, Fed 210S OAL 2.900

27 July 97 T = 90F

Ave Vel = 2595
Std Dev = 80
ES = 268
Low = 2517
High = 2785


174 gr FMJBT 55.0 gr WC852, .284 Win Brass, Fed210S,

26 May 97 T = 75F


Ave Vel = 2531
Std Dev = 20
ES = 49
Low = 2500
High = 2549



7.5 x 55 Swiss Model K-31
Kanonier (canon operator) B. 1923
Rudolf Bigler Haubitzen Stabsbatterie 32 (Unit)
Waffenweg 18 (address) 3014 Bern (zip code / town)


168 gr Nosler Match 56.0 gr WC852, INDEP Brass and Primer OAL 2.850

1 Dec 01 T = 52 F


Ave Vel = 2402
Std Dev = 21
ES = -2376
Low = 2376


7.5 x 55 Swiss Model M1911

174 FMJBT 57.0 WC852 INDEP cases INDEP primers OAL 2.85

30-Apr-03 T = 86 F

Ave Vel = 2837
Std Dev = 188
ES = 544
Low = 2646
High = 3190
N = 17
suspect velocities, major chronograph movement
after each shot.


7.5 X 54 French Chronograph Data MAS 36-51

165 Gr R-P 50.0 grs WC852 Lee Scoop 3.4 Hansen cases Fed 210S

19-Dec-92 T ≈ 50 F

Ave Vel = 2285
Std Dev = 130
ES = 328
Low = 2173
High = 2501
N = 5


308 Winchester

M70 26" Kreiger Barrel, four groove, 1:10 twist

190 gr Speer Match 50.0 grs WC852 wt'd R-P cases Fed 210S

9 Mar 97 T=70F

Ave Vel = 2328
Std Dev = 18
ES = 52
Low = 2310
High = 2362
N = 14


190 gr Speer Match 51.5 grs WC852 wt'd R-P cases Fed 210S

30 April 97 T=70F


Ave Vel = 2392
Std Dev = 19
ES = 54
Low = 2361
High = 2415
N = 10


190 gr Speer Match 52.5 grs WC852 wt'd R-P cases Fed 210S

30 April 97 T=70F

Ave Vel = 2461
Std Dev = 12
ES = 41
Low = 2442
High = 2483






30-06 Chronograph Data

M98 26" 1-10 Wilson Barrel

190 gr Speer 57.0grs WC852 wtd. FED 210M 190 ≤ WWII ≤ 195 grs OAL 3.345"

5 Oct 2000 T=70F

Ave Vel = 2658
Std Dev = 15
ES = 42
Low = 2639
High = 2681
N = 9

good group, load has potential w/better brass, primers look ok



200 gr Sierra Match 55.0 gr WC852 wt'd WWII cases (190 to 195 gr cases) Fed 210S OAL 3.35

30 April 98 T=72F


Ave Vel = 2538
Std Dev = 39
ES = 104
Low = 2493
High = 2597
N = 10

200 gr Sierra Match 56.0 gr WC852 wt'd WWII cases (190 to 195 gr cases)Fed 210S OAL 3.35

30 April 98 T=72F

Ave Vel = 2552
Std Dev = 12
ES = 36
Low = 2535
High = 2571
N = 10
primers OK, starting to flatten
200 gr Sierra Match 57.0 gr WC852 wt'd WWII cases (190 to 195 gr cases) Fed 210S OAL 3.35

30 April 98 T=72F
Ave Vel = 2601
Std Dev = 12
ES = 36
Low = 2582
High = 2618
N = 10

primers OK, but may be max load

SAKO 24" Barrel

165 gr R-P SPFB 57.0 grs WC852 RA54 Fed 210M OAL 3.330

2 Mar 91 T = 70F

Ave Vel = 2566
Std Dev = 19
ES = 69
Low = 2533
High = 2602
N = 10

174 gr FMJBT 57.0 gr WC852 RA54 Fed210M OAL 3.330

2 Mar 91 T = 70F

Ave Vel = 2590
Std Dev = 17
ES = 52
Low = 2564
High = 2616
N = 10

174 gr FMJBT 58.0 gr WC852 RA54 Fed210M OAL 3.330

2 Mar 91 T = 70F

Ave Vel = 2668
Std Dev = 16
ES = 53
Low = 2640
High = 2693
N = 10

174 gr FMJBT 59.0 gr WC852 RA54 Fed210M OAL 3.330

2 Mar 91 T = 70F

Ave Vel = 2733
Std Dev = 24
ES = 80
Low = 2701
High = 2781
N = 9
Blown group




174 FMJBT 55.0 grs WC852 WCC55 WLR OAL 3.250" OAL 2.80"

27-Nov-06 T = 60 F

Ave Vel = 2478
Std Dev = 17
ES = 59
High = 2507
Low = 2448
N = 16

M1 Garand Douglas Barrel 1:10 twist

174 FMJBT 57.0 WC852 WWII cases (190 to 195 gr cases) Fed210S OAL 3.30"

5 May 00 T = 82 F

Ave Vel = 2510
Std Dev = 13
ES = 45
Low = 2486
High = 2531
N = 10

M1 Garand 30-06 VAR barrel

148 IMI FMJBT 59.5 gr WC852 IMI cases CCI200

T=72 F 4 April 2009

Ave Vel = 2683
Std Dev = 18
ES = 57
Low = 2647
High = 2704
N = 8

M1 Garand 3-53 SA Barrel
TE=3.0, ME=1.0

173 FMJBT 55.0 gr WC852 Mixed cases CCI#34 OAL 3.250

T=72 F 29 May 2010

Ave Vel = 2486
Std Dev = 27
ES = 103
Low = 2435
High = 2538
N = 31


M70 30-06 26" Douglas Barrel

175 gr Sierra Match 57.0 gr WC852 wt'd W/W cases Fed 210S

30 April 97 T = 72F

Ave Vel = 2596
Std Dev = 51
ES = 159
Low = 2554
High = 2713

190 gr Speer Match 55.0 gr WC852 wt'd W/W cases Fed 210S

30 April 97 T= 75F

Ave Vel = 2512
Std Dev = 64
ES = 191
Low = 2467
High = 2658


.303 British Chronograph Data
No. 4 MkII

150 gr CIL (.311) Spitzer SP 55.0 grs WC852 Lee.Scoop. 3.7 Hansen cases Fed 210S

19-Dec-92 T ≈ 50 F

Ave Vel = 2414
Std Dev = 25
ES = 61
Low = 2393
High = 2454
N = 5

174 gr Hornady (.311) RN 41.5 grs WC 852 L.S. 2.8 Hansen cases Fed 210M

30-Jul-91 T ≈ 90 F


Ave Vel = 1991
Std Dev = 35
ES = 92
Low = 1959
High = 2051
N = 5


174 gr Hornady (.311) RN 46.0 grs WC 852 L.S. 3.1 Hansen cases Fed 210M

30-Jul-91 T ≈ 90 F

Ave Vel = 2205
Std Dev = 18
ES = 44
Low = 2180
High = 2224
N = 5

174 gr FMJ Greek Bullet 55.0 grs WC852 L.S. 3.7 Hansen cases Fed 210S

19-Dec-92 T ≈ 50 F


Ave Vel = 2437
Std Dev = 25
ES = 55
Low = 2406
High = 2461
N = 5


300H&H Magnum
pre 64 Winchester M70 26" Barrel Mfgr 1952

190 Hornady Match 64.0 grs WC852 wtd, Hornady cases Fed210S OAL 3.590"

12 Jan 2013 T = 72 F

Ave Vel = 2643
Std Dev = 27
ES = 54
High = 2671
Low = 2617
N = 3
easy extraction rounded primers


190 Hornady Match 65.0 grs WC852 wtd, Hornady cases Fed210S OAL 3.590"

12 Jan 2013 T = 72 F

Ave Vel = 2674
Std Dev = 28
ES = 55
High = 2702
Low = 2647
N = 3
easy extraction rounded primers






http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v479/SlamFire/Targets/M98168Sierra570WC852198-12XReduced.jpg (http://smg.photobucket.com/user/SlamFire/media/Targets/M98168Sierra570WC852198-12XReduced.jpg.html)


http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v479/SlamFire/Targets/M1%20Garand%20Targets/200SFM1Garand1504XXX.jpg (http://smg.photobucket.com/user/SlamFire/media/Targets/M1%20Garand%20Targets/200SFM1Garand1504XXX.jpg.html)

FLIGHT762
April 15, 2013, 12:43 AM
WC852 varied greatly lot to lot. It varied in speed from as fast as H-335 / 4895 to as slow as IMR4831.

I also bought my lots from Jeff Bartlett. I remember speaking with him for some time about using WC852 in the Garand. I purchased the fast lot which took about 50 grains for a 150 grain bullet. He said the slow lots were not suitable for the Garand.

If you can find the load data for your lot, you can likely determine the speed. The information slamfire posted for lot BAJ 47287 shows 60.1 grains for a 152 grain bullet @ 2750 FPS. I'm no expert, but I believe 60.1 grains to get to 2750 FPS indicates a slow lot, probably not suitable for the Garand.

Even if you have a slow lot, the powder is very useable in bolt guns. If it is a slow lot, you could spend the $40.00 or so and get an adjustable gas plug and adjust it accordingly. With the current availability and cost of powder, I'd find a way to shoot up that WC852.

I'm sure there's others that have used WC852 and can chime in.

SlamFire1
April 15, 2013, 07:14 PM
I'm no expert, but I believe 60.1 grains to get to 2750 FPS indicates a slow lot, probably not suitable for the Garand.

My lot is perfectly acceptable for the M1 Garand, was tested in the M1 Garand with 150 grain bullets, and it is acceptable because the port pressure and peak pressures are appropriate for the mechanism.

I have shot ammunition cans of 174 FMJBT's 57.0 grs WC852 in my Garands with perfect satisfaction.

I wish I have one of the faster lots as I would liked to use my WC852 in 30-30, 308, 303 Brit, and my lot is too slow for those applications.

Still, I dont have the OPs lot, and he needs to go out and develop his own loads and evaluate function in a Garand.

If the Garand functions too violently, the whole cycle closer to an explosion with brass ejecting too hard and too far, rims torn, cases stuck in chamber, then the powder is not appropriate for the mechanism.

brassbullets12
April 15, 2013, 09:49 PM
thanks for all replys
i will have to wait until weekend to shoot anything.i did contact jeff barlett sunday, i seen him sat at knob creek, but forgot to ask him. he hasn't got back with me yet.. i did load some a few months back, about 2 gr. under max for 150gr. and it was 2250-2300 fps. then i checked on the net and found i had the slow lot, i went to another project, and now am ready to find out what i can do with 2-3 jugs of powder. i do have some bolts ,i can load for but i wasn't wanting to use this powder
thanks for all help

brassbullets12
April 17, 2013, 11:58 PM
thanks for everybodys help, but my lot is not like everybody's else. i made a mistake when i bought it years ago. i can use it but, it wasn't what i wanted.
i heard from jeff barlett , this is what he said
I never sold any WC852 from lot 47288. However, my records indicate it was one of the waivered lots that was used in .30-06 MG ammo only. The burning rate is similar to Hodgdon H450 or Winchester 785.

the only place i can find a lot of data is from my 1999 lyman book, it has quite a lot of data for h450 and win 785.
if any body lives in ky and might be intrested in a jug, contact me
thanks for everybodys help

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