Gods speed to the victims & city of Boston.But I have to ask this


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husker
April 15, 2013, 11:35 PM
The cloud of smoke looked to me like, what I would picture 3 or 4 pounds of Pyrodex or similar going off at once. Am I way off base? Or if I am way out line with this thread,Mods delete it

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Derek Zeanah
April 15, 2013, 11:42 PM
You're not the only one to think that. :(

The question is, would that size pipe bomb have resulted in the traumatic amputations we saw? I was surprised by the damage of the blast, after looking at the video of the blasts themselves.

Of course, my experience with IEDs is pretty nonexistent.

J-Bar
April 15, 2013, 11:43 PM
Big boom, white smoke...it is to worry.

armoredman
April 15, 2013, 11:56 PM
The damage I saw I would THINK would require more boom than is in traditional propellants, but I could be wrong. Any explosive experts around here?

beeenbag
April 16, 2013, 12:03 AM
my thoughts were... "wonder how they'll blame guns for this?". Then it hit me, this will be the tragedy they need to start restricting reloading components.

Telekinesis
April 16, 2013, 12:14 AM
I'm far from an explosives expert, but I was thinking black powder or a substitute as well. I'm not sure that a pipe bomb would cause that kind of damage though. Black powder should explode only to the point that the container fractures, meaning that unless the container was designed to fracture like a grenade, there shouldn't have been too much shrapnel caused by the bomb itself.

my thoughts were... "wonder how they'll blame guns for this?". Then it hit me, this will be the tragedy they need to start restricting reloading components.

You don't need to buy black powder to do that, if you have the time black powder isn't that difficult to make. Then again, when was the last time logic stood in the way of someone passing a law?

Edit: A chem-engineering friend was thinking ANFO considering that it makes a rather dirty explosion as well.

husker
April 16, 2013, 12:22 AM
What is ANFO ?

Telekinesis
April 16, 2013, 12:27 AM
ANFO is short for Ammonium Nitrate Fuel Oil. It's what people mean when they say "just mix fertilizer and diesel fuel". Pro/con from an explosives standpoint is that it is a very stable mixture, but is a bit difficult to detonate when compared to other things you can use.

Google is your friend ;) Link (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/ANFO)

Lunie
April 16, 2013, 12:29 AM
What is ANFO ?
An acronym for the blasting agent used primarily for mining, Ammonia Nitrate/Fuel Oil.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/ANFO

Captain*kirk
April 16, 2013, 12:39 AM
News reporting that Dr's were digging ball-bearings out of the victims.
These jerks were aiming to maim & kill.
Could well be black powder; witnesses report smelling sulfur

JohnKSa
April 16, 2013, 12:51 AM
My first thought was black powder, and everything I saw in videos and pictures confirms some sort of low-yield explosive.

I think even ANFO would have more oomph and less smoke than what the videos show. There were windows only feet from the blast that were intact, and victims who had been engulfed in the fireball (burnt hair and smoking wounds) who were still conscious and apparently not significantly affected by blast/concussion/overpressure.

Just be thankful that the bombs were placed right on the ground and that not all of them went off. If the guy had known what he was doing, it would have been worse.

Busyhands94
April 16, 2013, 01:31 AM
Well we know most criminals aren't smart enough to make their own blackpowder like some of us including myself do. And we know that in NY you need a permit to buy ammo and probably BP too.

Could it be that laws have no effect on criminals? Hmm, that's a crazy idea. Maybe I need to put down the jar and start thinking straight.

BlackNet
April 16, 2013, 01:59 AM
I saw a video earlier today on youtube and it had that unmistakeable holy black sound to it.

Oyvind
April 16, 2013, 05:04 AM
According to Reuters the bombs used gunpowder as the explosive: http://www.reuters.com/article/2013/04/16/us-usa-explosions-boston-idUSBRE93F06T20130416

zimmerstutzen
April 16, 2013, 07:33 AM
Shades of Olympic park bomber's deed

SleazyRider
April 16, 2013, 08:23 AM
I had the very same thought about the black powder, and if it's so, there'll be a run on black powder as states scramble to pass laws. Funny, I'm shooting more black powder because of the current ammo situation; maybe tomorrow I'll be shooting my airgun because of the black powder situation. Here's hoping it wasn't black powder that was used!

Carl N. Brown
April 16, 2013, 08:25 AM
Commercial explosives--Pyrodex, black powder, smokeless powder and nitroglycerine based dynamite--make white smoke.

Most military explosives--TNT, RDX, C4--make grey or black smoke.

My first impression it was either a commercial explosive or a homebrew equivalent.

The first reports over the past 48 hours have been contradictory. No shrapnel, then they were pulling ball bearings out of victims, then a doctor told the press it was metal fragments.

In the first stages of an event, releases will withhold info that could only be confirmed by the perp, while deliberately false details which would be repeated by false informants and these compulsive confessor types will be leaked, so authorities can filter reports they receive in the course of an investigation.

OilyPablo
April 16, 2013, 08:38 AM
Yeah I'm still reading "ball bearings" this am......I am no IED expert, but one guy with legs blown off completely......"packed with gunpowder and shrapnel"......this wasn't a single hack guy.

http://www.reuters.com/article/2013/04/16/us-usa-explosions-boston-idUSBRE93F06T20130416

Double Naught Spy
April 16, 2013, 09:02 AM
The first reports over the past 48 hours have been contradictory.

If you have reports more than 20 hours before when you posted, then you are about to become a person of interest in the bombing. That you could have reports of the makeup of the bombs BEFORE they went off is scary.

Madcap_Magician
April 16, 2013, 09:16 AM
At least two of the bombs were in trash cans, so if the homemade Claymore mine theory turns out to be wrong, the metal shrapnel could be bits of the trash cans.

BlackNet
April 16, 2013, 09:29 AM
Honestly tho, bombs in trash cans is in the top 10 things that security should be looking for. It is not a new concept and has been around for ages. This is a very clear failure on all security. But we all know in this country there is no real 'security' it is all 'feel good' security and security thru obscurity.

hunttheevil
April 16, 2013, 10:09 AM
Yeah I'm still reading "ball bearings" this am......I am no IED expert, but one guy with legs blown off completely......"packed with gunpowder and shrapnel"......this wasn't a single hack guy.

http://www.reuters.com/article/2013/...93F06T20130416


I didn't see anything in the article that mentioned black powder. The white powdery substance in the blast radius is indicative of an anatol/nitroglycerin blend.

BlackNet
April 16, 2013, 10:11 AM
I didn't see anything in the article that mentioned black powder. The white powdery substance in the blast radius is indicative of an anatol/nitroglycerin blend.

That is because it was removed. head over to google and search reuters gunpowder boston, you will see #1 and #2 post showing this..

Investigators hunt for clues in marathon bombing | Reuters
www.reuters.com/.../us-usa-explosions-boston-idUSBRE93F06T2013...
3 hours ago – BOSTON (Reuters) - Two bombs packed with ball bearings tore through ... by the devices, which were packed with gunpowder and shrapnel to ...

hunttheevil
April 16, 2013, 10:30 AM
I suspected as much. The MSM changes a story faster than I can take a breath.

BlackNet
April 16, 2013, 10:32 AM
Rule of thumb in all cases like this. 2-3 weeks is how long it takes to hear the real details. The media is unable to get the story right and there are more misinformation in that time.

highorder
April 16, 2013, 10:35 AM
The scary thing today is how the media asserts baseless guestimates as FACTS, only to silently edit them later to "clean up" a story.

The day of the legitimate retraction with apologies is gone.

The days of legitimate journalism are gone.

BlackNet
April 16, 2013, 10:37 AM
In my experience this is what leads to many of the conspiracy theories.

bigdaa
April 16, 2013, 10:37 AM
Yup, give this one a bit of time to settle. There will be security tapes of all sorts to pour through in order to pinpoint the perps in action.

The MSM will be swimming in hypothesis trying to conjure something unholy out of it.

Prepare to put your dukes up and fight the real menace and defend freedoms from further erosion.




The 8 year old buy dying while waiting for his father to finish the race................

I want expedient and final death for all perps involved.

God Rest these poor people's souls, especially Him.

Double Naught Spy
April 16, 2013, 10:53 AM
Rule of thumb in all cases like this. 2-3 weeks is how long it takes to hear the real details. The media is unable to get the story right and there are more misinformation in that time.

It isn't that the media can't get the story right. It is that the information about the story that they receive is continually changing. They report what they learn. That is how developing stories work.

Sapper771
April 16, 2013, 10:54 AM
Not an expert, but also leaning toward black powder. I only saw one video, and it was a bit blurry.

What got my attention was the two bombs did not go off together. Makes me think that the first bomb was expected to push the crowd into the second bomb. The other bombs make me think that they were for first responders. Saw these types of tactics used in Iraq. Could have been a foul up though.

I am also curious as to the initiation system used. That can tell you a lot about who your dealing with.

From the amount of blood on the sidewalk , I would say that there was some sort of shrapnel involved.



The Victims and Families will be in my prayers. Hopefully the terrorist will be caught and punished excessively.

woodnbow
April 16, 2013, 11:31 AM
They just report everything they can get thier hands on and publish corrections later, and of course those corrections then become grist for the conspiracy theorists mills...

TheOld Man
April 16, 2013, 12:00 PM
They had a Senator from...somewhere.. on the news. He was saying that this was the work of right-wing extremists of the Timothy McVeigh ilk, or possibly the Tea Party.
In the meantime I'm going to stock up on black powder for my shooting this summer. I may have to go back to 3-2-1.

pohill
April 16, 2013, 12:01 PM
To say that "This is a very clear failure on all security" is ridiculous. How do you secure a 26 mile course in one of the most liberals states in the country (or anywhere)? Of course they checked the rubbish barrels. In a free society, if the government fails to protect people, they bitch. If the government takes away freedoms in the name of security, people bitch. That is the premise of self defense - be prepared to take care of yourself and do not expect, or require, the government to do it, or to be able to do it.

foghornl
April 16, 2013, 12:06 PM
In one of the videos I saw, the second explosion was very much white smoke with a lot of 'orange' flame.

Isn't black powder muzzle flash more 'orangey' than say modern smokeless powder? That is what leans me toward a BP-type of bomb.

CoRoMo
April 16, 2013, 12:06 PM
You're not the only one to think that.
It was the first thought to hit me when I saw footage of the blasts/smoke.

Crap.

BlackNet
April 16, 2013, 12:22 PM
To say that "This is a very clear failure on all security" is ridiculous. How do you secure a 26 mile course in one of the most liberals states in the country (or anywhere)? Of course they checked the rubbish barrels. In a free society, if the government fails to protect people, they bitch. If the government takes away freedoms in the name of security, people bitch. That is the premise of self defense - be prepared to take care of yourself and do not expect, or require, the government to do it, or to be able to do it.

Quite easily, trashcan's is one of the top 10 items to check as they are havens for crap like this. I bet you $ none of them were checked. Most of those dont even have the slightest concept of what real security is. You dont even have to take away jack from the citizens to be secure either. It is such a trivial matter it is not funny.

Zoogster
April 16, 2013, 01:39 PM
I too thought it could be something like such a powder.

The blast was not typical of a high order explosive which would be the typical ideal choice for bomb use.
The incomplete combustion, smoke, and color and speed of the flash all seemed to suggest something closer to a propellant or low order explosive.

The damage also seemed to rely primarily on a lot of shrapnel and had relatively minimal blast. That people within 10 yards walked away, and some did not even have ruptured eardrums also further suggests it was not a high explosive.
That is important because someone making something ideal from scratch would probably be using a high explosive. While someone making due with something already available would be more prone to use something like black powder.
It also gives some insight into the likely capabilities of the individual or group, and that they are probably not capable of manufacturing high explosives which can readily be done in our society full of industrial chemicals. This suggests a less sophisticated criminal. Which one could speculate further means even more likelyhood of a lone wolf or less sophisticated organization. A less sophisticated loner with less experience or lacking leadership with explosive experience like a lot of the foreign organized terror groups would have provided.


The federal investigators should be able to tell from a profile of the residue what category of explosive it was and whether it was black powder, a substitute, or smokeless, or something else relatively quickly. Something generating that much smoke left a ton of residue to test.



Additional reports just now seem to suggest they were pressure cookers. This is of course from the same media (perhaps briefed or leaked it from law enforcement) that said 2-5 additional unexploded bombs were found yesterday and which was later retracted.
A strong vessel such as that to contain buildup of pressure and the fact that it was still a relatively small blast suggests even more strongly a relatively weak explosive.
That implies even more strongly it could be something like gunpowder.

AethelstanAegen
April 16, 2013, 02:07 PM
Quite easily, trashcan's is one of the top 10 items to check as they are havens for crap like this.

Where are you guys getting that the bomb was in a trashcan? From the injuries we've heard about so far, I'm inclined to think it was sitting on the sidewalk in a bag. Unless you're living in a police state (and probably not even then), you'd better get comfortable with the idea that you can't be 100% protected. The trade off between safety for enhanced liberties is generally something we're okay with...so let's not start ranting against the police. Many plots have been foiled, but they can't stop them all. In my experience the same people who are first to cry "security failure" after an event like this are also the same people that will rant about government expenditure and cut funding for intelligence/law enforcement (Congress is a big fan of that tactic). It's certainly a tragedy but let's put the blame where it really belongs, with the terrorist, and not the police trying very hard to prevent things like this from happening.


Let's really hope it wasn't blackpowder or any kind of gunpowder. Though I am worried it might have been since it doesn't seem to have been a very high powered explosion.

rondog
April 16, 2013, 02:22 PM
One of the biggest problems with information is the media's inherent craving to "get the scoop" over the other guys, and be the first to get any tidbit of info out to the public, whether it's factual or not. TV, radio, newspapers, wire services, etc. - all of them are clambering all over each other to beat the rest to the punch and tell it to you first.

You could just make something up at the scene, tell it to the nearest reporter, and it'll be on the air within minutes. "This just in....." How many different death numbers did you hear yesterday, before they settled on three? And there's STILL nothing clear about whether an AR15 was used at Sandy Hook or not. There's more that says one WAS used, but I'm still reading accounts that one was NOT used. Who the hell knows.....

Even our local newscasts seem to be starting their broadcasts just a little bit sooner, so their news can be on before the other stations. The news is supposed to start at 10, but sometimes it'll start at 9:58. Gets irritating. Trying to watch the last of something, then switch over to the news channel and the news is already on and leaving you behind.

CoRoMo
April 16, 2013, 02:49 PM
...the fact that it was still a relatively small blast suggests even more strongly a relatively weak explosive.
IF something like smokeless, black or equivalent powder was used, we all might then have a tendency to think that the gun-grabbers will next focus on restricting the availability and/or access to a bottle of 777 or W231.

I do not intend to minimize the death of three and the maiming of hundreds of innocent people at all. Seeing the face of Martin Richard makes me want to never again let go of my little kids.

It's just that, again IF these improvised devices used such components, this actually illustrates the impotence of these components compared to say, the high explosives used in suicide vests and car bombs in Israel.

zimmerstutzen
April 16, 2013, 02:53 PM
The olympic park bomber used nails around the explosive.

This person apparently didn't use anything. which says he didn't study his subject.

The eight seconds between blasts would have been enough time to dial the second phone/detonator.

Probably used over the counter stuff, like Pyroduh, or 777, not black powder.

rondog
April 16, 2013, 02:56 PM
An ANFO bomb would have been devastating, and a helluva lot cheaper to build than a blackpowder bomb. Look at what a truckload of ANFO did to the Murrah Building in OKC.

Zoogster
April 16, 2013, 03:07 PM
This person apparently didn't use anything.

Unreliable media, combined with what I have seen a doctor or two give statements on about things removed from patients suggests nails and/or ball bearings were used.
A high volume of similar items removed from patients not present in the environment in quantity suggests they were part of the bomb.


IF these improvised devices used such components, this actually illustrates the impotence of these components compared to say, the high explosives used in suicide vests and car bombs in Israel.

Yes, and the well organized foreign groups would have been likely to teach them how to improvise high explosives from very widely available things in the USA. Some less stable than others, but all much more powerful.
The lack of such training or material in the explosive (assuming that is the case) is more suggestive of a lone wolf, which could in fact being even worse for us. Because there is a higher percentage it will be some non middle eastern US citizen that will create more of a focus on restrictions of citizens versus a focus on such terrorist groups.


From video evidence of the blast I would determine it was a low power explosive.
If the media is to be believed and it was pressure cookers in black duffel bags, the strong container and weak blast does point heavily towards something like such powder and nails.


The Boston area is also one of the most educated and influential parts of the country and with dense numbers, if they are emotionally mobilized towards nationwide restrictions it would be a good battle to defeat them.
Quickly joined by New York, and then all the gun grabbers if they see an opportunity for any type of greater restrictions on arms.

In the shorter term it would also probably result in a powder buying panic, and whatever is left not already bought from the ammo panic would probably be sold and back ordered for months.
Oops I may have just started the powder panic of 2013.

pohill
April 16, 2013, 03:07 PM
Where are you guys getting that the bomb was in a trashcan?

I never said it was in a trashcan. I was saying that of course trashcans and everywhere else possible were checked. I was referring to the statement that there was a "clear failure of all security".

BlackNet
April 16, 2013, 03:30 PM
I read this am it was in a trash can, now USA today is saying backpack on the ground pressure cooker and gun powder.

So I guess you can have police, public etc walking by and never question suspicious things like that.

AethelstanAegen
April 16, 2013, 03:31 PM
I never said it was in a trashcan. I was saying that of course trashcans and everywhere else possible were checked. I was referring to the statement that there was a "clear failure of all security".

I'm right there with you, pohill. I wasn't referring to your post but rather to several other posts where people claimed the bomb was in an unchecked trashcan.

So I guess you can have police, public etc walking by and never question suspicious things like that.

What do you expect on a crowded street? Given the small explosion, it's likely most of the crowd had a bag about the size of the device. If anyone even saw it they likely thought it belonged to one of the poor people standing next to it. Hindsight is 20/20 so I really don't think we can armchair quarterback this one as if there was a gross security failure. Security resources are limited and many of the methods for preventing something like this would have citizens up in arms over invasion of privacy. In an open society like ours, you have to accept that most places are very soft, easy targets.

plunge
April 16, 2013, 03:44 PM
looked like a couple IED blasts I saw in helmand afghanistan, big white cloud, not a lot of fire, stuff blown everywhere, but they were about 100 pounds, so much larger than this.

Zoogster
April 16, 2013, 03:54 PM
plunge said:looked like a couple IED blasts I saw in helmand afghanistan, big white cloud, not a lot of fire, stuff blown everywhere, but they were about 100 pounds, so much larger than this.

A large part of ied clouds from high explosives in dry or desert environments is dust combining with the smoke and gas and not much actual smoke itself. Many quality high explosive have more complete combustion/detonation. Resulting in less dense smoke or particulates.

The quantity of smoke quantity of flash, and low speed and intensity of the blast is very different from high explosives used in most foreign IEDs (many of which are made from old artillery shells or other military ordinance.)
This bomb appears to have relied on shrapnel alone to do most damage even in a tight crowd. Even the amputations were probably a result of the density of ball bearings/nails at close range rather than blast.
Keep in mind it was also on a clean city street not in a dusty environment. All of that smoke came from the small bombs, and it was a lot.

I would say it is very different.
Compare it to the carnage of some of the suicide vests used in some attacks. Which are light enough for even a small stature woman to mange to carry and tear a crowd apart far worse.

alsaqr
April 16, 2013, 03:54 PM
Did EOD stuff for 20+ years in the US Army and another 30 years as a civilian EOD/UXO type. i've made and blown hundreds of pipe bombs using about every type of readily available smokeless powder, blackpowder and blackpowder substitute. Never blew up a pressure cooker though.

The blast has the characteristics of blackpowder except for one thing i'll get to later. Theres lots of white smoke and little brisance (blast effect). A witness commented on the sulfur smell. The first bomb was probably in a trashcan: The smoke plume rose in a column.

The color of the fireball is not quite right for a pipe bomb loaded with blackpowder. Not sure what a effect a weaker container like a pressure cooker would have on the fireball color.

plunge
April 16, 2013, 04:01 PM
Not many IED's in afghanistan are made of ordnance anymore. Mostly HME

BlackNet
April 16, 2013, 04:04 PM
http://www.usatoday.com/story/news/nation/2013/04/16/boston-marathon-explosions/2086853/

BOSTON The explosive devices that killed three people and injured scores at the Boston Marathon finish line were made from pressure cookers filled with metal and ball bearings and left in a backpack, according to a federal law enforcement official.

"Pressure cooker bombs are made with readily available materials and can be as simple or as complex as the builder decides,'' according to the DHS bulletin. "These types of devices can be (detonated) using simple electronic components including, but not limited to, digital watches, garage door openers, cellphones or pagers."

The bulletin noted that cooker bombs were used in an attack on an airport in Nepal in 2002 and a foiled attack in India in 2003.


Still it's a security failure regardless of how you slice it.

zimmerstutzen
April 16, 2013, 05:14 PM
One nail removed from a victim and two with shiny round objects out of 130 some injured and it is ball bearing and nail bomb.

We will only ever know what they want to feed us. The press will run wild with whatever a person who knows a person conjectures.

zimmerstutzen
April 16, 2013, 05:16 PM
Anybody ever attend 4th of July at the Mall in DC. bigger crowd and far tighter security in a space that is open to traffic and wide open for several blocks in every direction.

AethelstanAegen
April 16, 2013, 05:34 PM
Anybody ever attend 4th of July at the Mall in DC. bigger crowd and far tighter security in a space that is open to traffic and wide open for several blocks in every direction.

But then again the DC mall isn't 26+ miles long. That said, I haven't been to the 4th celebrations there in several years because even with the security, it would be very easy for someone to slip in bombs of the size used in Boston. That and I just hate crowds, so I steer clear and watch the show from across the river.

This type of attack is very hard to prevent without using methods people would complain about...and when the people complain about it, the methods would be scrapped under the political pressure.

BlackNet
April 16, 2013, 06:11 PM
This type of attack is very hard to prevent without using methods people would complain about...and when the people complain about it, the methods would be scrapped under the political pressure.

there are plenty of methods that are very effective that will not cause those outcry's, they are also not used, frequently overlooked and often ruled out in favor of more apparent methods that does little practical.

AethelstanAegen
April 16, 2013, 06:15 PM
there are plenty of methods that are very effective that will not cause those outcry's, they are also not used, frequently overlooked and often ruled out in favor of more apparent methods that does little practical.

Such as?

dickydalton
April 16, 2013, 06:25 PM
This admistration won't waste a "crisis" like this and we all know the next thing they'll go after.:fire:
Remember, they might not come for you first but eventually will come for you. Stand together for our 2nd Amendment Rights or we'll have none.

BlackNet
April 16, 2013, 06:51 PM
Oh lets see here.

CBS News: Bombs Made to Look Like ‘Discarded Property’ (http://dailycaller.com/2013/04/16/trash-cans-around-capitol-removed-after-boston-terrorist-attack/)


Trash cans near the Capitol are apparently being removed as a precautionary measure (http://dailycaller.com/2013/04/16/trash-cans-around-capitol-removed-after-boston-terrorist-attack/)

^^ bit late and things like this helps greatly at many areas, not only for stampeding sheep but well, bombs and such to. It is not a new practice by no means.


Also see this one.
intelligence failure (http://www.thedailybeast.com/articles/2013/04/16/the-boston-bombing-intelligence-failure.html)

Also these below images they are not natural disasters, tho I have to admit I have seen natural disaster that looked far better than some of these images.


http://63.238.52.119/~bsenviro/wp-content/uploads/2013/02/Mardi-Gras-trash.jpg

http://cdn.abclocal.go.com/images/wabc/cms_exf_2007/_video_wn_images/8487044_448x252.jpg

http://msnbcmedia.msn.com/j/MSNBC/Components/Photo/_new/pb-130101-new-year-trash-001.photoblog900.jpg

http://www.toledoblade.com/image/2012/01/01/800x600_b1cCM/New-Years-Eve-garbage.jpg

http://woodstocknation.files.wordpress.com/2011/04/screen-shot-2011-04-25-at-2-25-42-pm1.png

http://news.thomasnet.com/green_clean/wp-content/uploads/2011/12/woodstock-after1.jpg

pohill
April 16, 2013, 06:59 PM
There is absolutely no way in this world that you can secure the Boston Marathon route, short of declaring martial law. I was a cop north of Boston and I worked as a PI in and around Boston for a time. I am not a fan of the MA government but I am a fan of the law enforcement.

EljaySL
April 16, 2013, 07:09 PM
I have to admit after I saw the first forensics guy mentioning the color of the smoke was a clue I pulled up a recent video of me shooting black powder to compare.

Last I heard there wasn't anything that would disallow it having been TATP which also produces a white cloud. It's a common homebrew explosive.

husker
April 16, 2013, 07:41 PM
If you are going to add nails or ball bearings to your home made bomb. Putting such a device in a trashcan makes no sense at all. I just got home from work so havent heard anything since 8 am

Deltaboy
April 16, 2013, 09:51 PM
Black powder in old pressure cooker will make a Boom.

bigbore442001
April 16, 2013, 10:47 PM
I am shocked and saddened at this event but I am sickened by what NBC has just done.

They stated that the bombs were made with smokeless gunpowder which is readily available at sporting goods stores.

Makes me sick. So the issue of how this will impact us is very cogent.

dickydalton
April 17, 2013, 12:16 AM
Listen up people, they have made ammunition almost unavailable and now powder? Next will be our BP. You guys can't sell out the AR 15 Crowd and expect the Lefters to leave you alone. This is a well orchestrated campaign against the 2nd Amendment. they will come for YOU NEXT.:what:

Curator
April 17, 2013, 12:18 AM
Media feeding-frenzy as usual. The Perps are having a field day watching all the activity they caused. The Boston (Keystone) cops dropped the ball on security, just like they did at Logan on 9-11. What a surprise! Dept of Homeland Security will now use this to tighten their grip on freedom and the American way of life. When the miscreants are caught they will become celebrities extraordinaire at their trial with MSNBC, CNN and The rest of the "mainstream" media lining up to worship at the feet of true revolutionaries. Bill Ayers would be proud!

pohill
April 17, 2013, 02:42 AM
The Boston (Keystone) cops dropped the ball on security, just like they did at Logan on 9-11

This is about as High Road as it gets. Wow.

AethelstanAegen
April 17, 2013, 03:37 AM
I don't see that any of the articles you linked prove anything, BlackNet. Removing the trash ans in Boston would not have prevented the attack. That intelligence failure article basically said nothing. If the article writer knew anything about intelligence he'd know that what his quoted expert was saying that it's impossible to pick up actionable SIGINT when you're looking at a new, probably solitary terrorist. IE, there's nothing you can intercept if there's no one talking. The article writer also clearly has no idea just how much material there is to be processed especially given the limited resources that any agency has to work with.

Sam1911
April 17, 2013, 07:24 AM
Nothing left in this but hand-wringing, blame casting, and vapid speculation.

Closed.

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