The ol SR9 and winchester white box problem


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Potatohead
April 16, 2013, 02:22 PM
Alrite everyone, i had read alot about this and now i know its true for me also. . My sr9 cant shoot Winch white box fmj. 4 fte out of 12 trigger pulls. 2 of them i really had to wrestle with to get the cartridge out. I know i could easily buy another brand but i have a friend who works at wal mart so i get quite the hook up on the 100 rd wwb fmj, have a few thousand. Im sure i will get another 9 at some point so its not that big a deal but darn, has anyone been able to fix this problem. I thought i saw a thread once that mentioned how someone alleviated this problem. Any help would be appreciated

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FitGunner
April 16, 2013, 02:45 PM
I have only put Speer Lawman and Federal JHPs through my SR9c without fail. I will try some WWB and see what happens.

HOOfan_1
April 16, 2013, 03:42 PM
wel...what is the problem? Light primer strikes? If that is the case, I am not sure why you would have to wrestle to get the cartridge out...that sounds more like out of spec ammo

Hilljun
April 16, 2013, 04:20 PM
I reload and have put 15 or 20 different recipes through mine without fail maybe more. Thousands of rounds altogether even some cheap factor stuff. I can't recall if I have ever shoot wwb though. My safty did break though. I called ruger and they sent me a box To mail them the gun. They fixed it and sent it back to me with a new book and a new lock. It took about two weeks. They even gave me a number so I could call and check on the progress. I know thats not what you wanted but maybe if its not the ammo it will help knowing that ruger will stand behind there product.

Potatohead
April 16, 2013, 04:30 PM
im glad ruger will help if needed. im waiting to hear back from them on this one. its a pretty often mentioned problem, so i know theyve had to of heard about it before, ive seen it on alot of different sites. it fires EVERY other ammo ive tried with zero problems. ----One reason i had to wrestle to get one out could be due to the fact im a newb-first time in my life i encountered it so im not sure i even cleared it right. which brings me to another question....whats the proper way to clear the malfunction i had today: already fired cartridge barely hanging out of barrel and kind of jammed into the next one coming up from the mag

HOOfan_1
April 16, 2013, 04:55 PM
I usually drop the magazine...keep the muzzle in a safe direction and pull back on the slide like this

https://www.usconcealedcarry.com/wp-content/uploads/2011/04/run-your-gun-cover.jpg

that is if I am at the range....in a self defense situation, you will want to do it differently...you can google that, as there are plenty of videos out there.

what you describe is generally called a stove pipe. Failure to eject the previous round. It can be cause by numerous things...limp wristing, weak ammo, stiff recoil spring, bad ejector, bad extractor.

Potatohead
April 16, 2013, 07:56 PM
holy cow hilljun, you were right...i emailed ruger and the wheels are already in motion, i actually havent called them back yet but they sent me an email and are wanting me to ship it back to them to evaluate my firearm, saying the problem could be a few things. Pretty dawg gone good customer service so far!

Potatohead
April 16, 2013, 07:57 PM
thanks for the reply Hoofan. good info

H.m.B
April 16, 2013, 09:01 PM
what you describe is generally called a stove pipe. Failure to eject the previous round. It can be cause by numerous things...limp wristing, weak ammo, stiff recoil spring, bad ejector, bad extractor.

Limp wristing is the problem I (my wife) had with the SR9 ... I could shoot it fine ... no problem. She'd shoot and darn if we weren't getting stove pipes. Range officer came over, gave it a shot ... no problem. She'd take a shot and ... yup ... stove pipe. Think limp wristing was the problem.

TarDevil
April 17, 2013, 10:19 AM
Colonel, I have run a couple of WWB's through my gun w/o issue. Then while in Texas last July, I bought a couple boxes from a Walmart there and experienced the same issue you mention. Turns out the boxes I bought were head stamped "WWC" which is a harder mil spec primer. Since, I just inspect the contents to make sure they aren't WWC and have had no issues.

If you are interested, here's (http://www.thehighroad.org/showthread.php?t=678634) the thread where my issue was discussed.

RBid
April 17, 2013, 10:24 AM
Mine has eaten WWB with no trouble, as well. It slings casings like it's out for a world record.

Ruger CS is famously awesome :)

Potatohead
April 17, 2013, 11:41 AM
i will check that out right when i get home tar devil

Potatohead
April 17, 2013, 12:28 PM
well i got in touch with ruger and they tell me wwb is "not a preferred" ammo for ruger. i guess i learned to try ammo before i buy 1500 rds the hard way. just couldnt resist 100 rd value paks for 25$ in this climate. she said its a "cheap" ammo...does wwb not work in other brands of pistols? wouldnt wal mart quit stocking it if its that horrible? excuse my southernness here but DADGUM!!!

HOOfan_1
April 17, 2013, 12:46 PM
It is cheap ammo. Yes some other pistols do have trouble with it.

I have no doubt you could sell it for more than you paid for it in this panic however.

Walmart also stocks Federal Champion, which some guns have trouble with.

MR2Aaron
April 17, 2013, 01:03 PM
Is the problem you're having that the spent case doesn't make it all the way out of the chamber, or that it gets jammed sticking out the ejection port?

The latter case is called a stovepipe. It's fairly common, and can be indicative of poor shooting technique. I'd test this by asking someone experienced to shoot the gun with the ammo in question, and see if they have the problem too.

If what you're experiencing is the former case, where the spent case doesn't come all the way out of the chamber, I'd try using a different brand of ammo first, before determining the problem is the gun.

I've not used WWB extensively, and I've never shot it through an SR9 (totally awesome gun, BTW), but my Glock 17 seemed to work reasonably well with it. That was before the panic, though, and it wouldn't surprise me if quality control has taken a back seat to volume recently, as the demand is so strong.

Potatohead
April 17, 2013, 01:18 PM
Not a stovepipe. Its like stuck up in , i guess the barrel. The tail is just hanging out and the next bullet comin outa the mag is pushed up against the tail of the spent one. Tar devil, mine all say WIN luger 9mm (the bullets)

Potatohead
April 17, 2013, 01:24 PM
Man i really hate to get rid of the ammo, though im pretty sure i could nearly double my money. Also hate that ive got a good hookup all for not. Guess i could get a 9 that can shoot wwb

ku4hx
April 17, 2013, 01:25 PM
Before you do anything, try several brands of ammunition. And make sure your stance is good and your grip is what it should be. You don't want your knuckles to turn white or to cut off the blood flow in your arms, but all you might need to do is simply tighten things up.

We own an SR9, SR9c and SR40. This past weekend we put a couple of hundred rounds through each without a hitch and we've done that several times to date. I roll my own so I know my stuff is top drawer, but some guns can be finicky when it comes to ammunition.

Potatohead
April 17, 2013, 01:29 PM
Im almost certain it was not wrist action. I was benched and sandbaggin it, trying to adjust the rear sight elevation

Potatohead
April 17, 2013, 01:35 PM
Man i really have to get to know how to do my own. Sounds fun. It eats all other ammo (tried about 10 different ones) and i think ive gotten one stovepipe outside of wwb and that was the first time out of the box. I askd the customer service rep if she'd heard this one before and she said oh yea. I sent another email, we'll see what happens but its lookin like sell the ammo or buy another pistol (aint gettin rid of the sr9 tho-me likey)

ku4hx
April 17, 2013, 01:42 PM
Resting the the gun, or hand, on a sandbag will sometimes "encourage" you to relax your grip. After all, the bag is supplying support the hands now don't need to. I've instructed many shooters in the last 30+ years and improper grip and stance follow just behind trigger control in the areas most often needing to be improved.

Potatohead
April 17, 2013, 01:47 PM
Pretty good point ku. Although in this particular situation im pretty sure it was the ammo. Not sayin im above screwin up thats for sure tho

ku4hx
April 17, 2013, 01:47 PM
Man i really have to get to know how to do my own. Sounds fun. It eats all other ammo (tried about 10 different ones)
It's not so much fun as it is satisfying to make your own ammunition. But to do it right takes a sizable expenditure in equipment and components, requires rigid adherence to safety rules and also takes a lot of study, research and work. It's not like making a microwave dinner. I also cast my own boolits and that's an investment all its own.

As to the other ammo .... that's a clue.

Potatohead
April 17, 2013, 01:48 PM
I caught myself relaxing a few time while on the bag. It did jam while standing too (the first magazine i was standing i believe)

HOOfan_1
April 17, 2013, 01:52 PM
Not a stovepipe. Its like stuck up in , i guess the barrel. The tail is just hanging out and the next bullet comin outa the mag is pushed up against the tail of the spent one. Tar devil, mine all say WIN luger 9mm (the bullets)

In that case, it is a failure to extract...something I would certainly contact Ruger about

Potatohead
April 17, 2013, 01:56 PM
Hey hoofan or anyone, when i tried to clear it, i couldnt get the mag to eject and i didnt want to tug on it and break something. I took it a range over and some nice older gent got the cartridge out. He had his back turned when he unjammed it, do you just yank the mag out? The next cartridge was kind of halfway in halfway out and keeping the mag connected to gun it looked like

xfyrfiter
April 17, 2013, 05:36 PM
FTE can also be caused by the gun being a little dirtier than usual, esp. around the extractor. If that area of the gun gets dry or gritty the extractor may be hanging up and not hooking the rim of the shell deep enough.

RetiredUSNChief
April 17, 2013, 07:49 PM
well i got in touch with ruger and they tell me wwb is "not a preferred" ammo for ruger. i guess i learned to try ammo before i buy 1500 rds the hard way. just couldnt resist 100 rd value paks for 25$ in this climate. she said its a "cheap" ammo...does wwb not work in other brands of pistols? wouldnt wal mart quit stocking it if its that horrible? excuse my southernness here but DADGUM!!!

Don't get caught up in WWB being labeled as "cheap ammo". What people mean by this is that it's "unreliable" or "defective" on a consistent basis.

I've never found WWB to be either unreliable or defective in the 9mm or .45 acp. I've shot a few thousand of each through my Beretta 92FS and my Colt 1991A1, respectively, and have never had a problem with the ammunition. I've shot both through other pistols and also haven't had any problems.


You do bring up a good point, though, about not buying a ton of ammunition that you haven't tested in your pistol first. In my opinion, it is well worth the time and expense to buy several different brands and types of ammunition to test fire through a newly purchased gun. This is what I do. Sometimes you find a particular brand or load which doesn't cycle well in the pistol. These I avoid. From the results of the tests, I make my decision on what to buy for that particular pistol.

I'd recommend this tactic for you, as well.

Given the current issues with market availability, this might pose a problem in obtaining several different brands and loads of 9mm. However, I suspect there are quite a few people (even on this site) who would happily trade a box or two of a particular brand in exchange for similar value in your WWB.

Heck, if you were near by (SC resident, currently in VA), I'd swap a box or two of Aguila 115 gr FMJ for an equal amount in WWB. Or sell a box or two at cost (I picked up a thousand rounds for $200 three months or so ago). My Beretta shoots both equally well.

Potatohead
April 18, 2013, 03:31 PM
Thx retired good points

TestPilot
April 18, 2013, 05:07 PM
Winchester USA is very basic practice ammo.

I do not find it to be unreliable or low quality.

If a pistol cannot properly feed it, there's a problem with it.

Not a stovepipe. Its like stuck up in , i guess the barrel. The tail is just hanging out and the next bullet comin outa the mag is pushed up against the tail of the spent one. Tar devil, mine all say WIN luger 9mm (the bullets)

What you're describing is a failure to extract.

There may be something wrong with the extractor. Another possibility is that something is causing the case wall to stick to the chamber. Inspect the extractor and chamber condition.

PedalBiker
April 19, 2013, 12:05 AM
I have put a bunch of WWB through my SR9c, with no problems at all (both 147g JHP and 115g FMJ).

When my P345 was new it did not like to feed flat point Ranier plated bullet reloads. After looking at ejected cases and watching the action work I found the chamber mouth was too sharp and the rear of the barrel had a spot that was not aligned quite right, a few minutes of stoning and it's 100% with those reloads (it was 100% with factory ammo out of the box). I think it would have smoothed out over time, but I didn't want to wait.

Byrd666
April 19, 2013, 12:40 AM
My SR9 will eat Anything. Were I you, I'd contact Ruger so it could be sent back to them for a warranty issue.

My 2 cents

Potatohead
April 19, 2013, 11:50 AM
hey thx yall. i think i will just ask ruger to take a look at it, even though Maggie the service rep says they cant do anything about it

GlackAttack
April 19, 2013, 02:18 PM
The only reason I will say this is because you said your a bit of a noob, not trying to offend.. Make sure you are holding the pistol very tight. If you are holding loosely, limp wristing, the slide will not actuate at the normal required speed and force, relative to the frame. Try holding it suuuper tight and see what happens. My sr9c has failed to fire with wwb, which is why I try not to buy it, but when it goes off, it has never failed to eject.. If there's a problem, Ruger will take care of it.

Potatohead
April 19, 2013, 05:33 PM
Thx!

pete43
April 20, 2013, 11:30 AM
I have a keltec PF9 that WWB stuck in the breech bad enough that the extractor would slip off the brass. I modified the extractor till the slide wouldn't move when you fired a round. After the brass cooled it would fall out. It had some cutter marks in the breech that I couldn't polish out so I sent a pic to keltec and they sent a new barrel which solved my problem.
183047

Oh I have a SR9 and I've never had any problems with it other than the gritty heavy trigger. :)

Potatohead
April 20, 2013, 12:13 PM
thats interesting pete but im not sure i got all that straight. can u elaborate a bit more? so it was fixed when they sent you a new barrel? or you did something to the extractor? or you just did something to the extractor to get the failure ou or what? im a little new at this

Potatohead
April 20, 2013, 12:25 PM
hey pete, in the pic, is the scratched up part at about 8 oclock? that little blemish there?

pete43
April 20, 2013, 12:46 PM
If I click on the pic it enlarges it..least it does here..the rough spots are at 5 or 6 oclock. Kinda looks like screw threads.183052


I worked on the extractor on my PF9 trying to get the sticking wwb brass to eject. I put a new extractor and spring in first. That didn't help so I took .010 off the inside of the extractor to seat it deeper in the brass. It held the brass so well the slide didn't move when I fired it. So I emailed Keltec and showed them the pic. They sent a new barrel and that solved my problem.

mboe794
April 20, 2013, 01:47 PM
Could we get a pic of the WWB rounds?

I have little experiance with the brand. Remington UMC was my go to 9mm ammo before I started reloading. But a buddy of mine uses WWB frequently. One time he showed up at the range with a 100 round box of .40 SW that I didnt like the looks of.

The rounds had a roll crimp, not the standard taper crimp. Semi auto cartridge, jacketed bullet with no cannelure, this surely couldnt be right. No way they would headspace properly. However, his SR40 handled them just fine.

Others he's had before, and since, seemed normal. Just one odd duck in the bunch I guess. Maybe, possibly, somthing like this is causing a problem?

Potatohead
April 20, 2013, 04:48 PM
thx pete, and yes the pic does enlarge.... mboe ,i would love to post some pics...if i knew how:) Your just talking about the ones in the box i havent fired? i just threw the fail to eject ones in with all the other spent brass

Potatohead
April 20, 2013, 04:50 PM
fyi i just created a signature for the first time, i didnt randomly just enter stuff in a post about clinging to guns and religion

Potatohead
April 20, 2013, 04:52 PM
the rough spots are at 5 or 6 oclock

i c now

HOOfan_1
April 20, 2013, 06:08 PM
Oh I have a SR9 and I've never had any problems with it other than the gritty heavy trigger. :)

How old is your SR9? Every one I have tried has a very light trigger...Hickok45 even said he thought the safety was necessary because the trigger was so light

I am sure the WWB rounds which are correctly loaded are just fine.....but I have seen to many QC problems in those 100 round boxes. Bullets seated too deep, bullets seated crooked which crushed the case. .45GAP rounds in a box of .40 S&W. That's just what I have seen...the internet is full of other people with similar problems.

Tcruse
April 20, 2013, 06:44 PM
Any modern handgun that will not work well with WWB, Federal, or Rem UMC has a problem. Some guns may need to get a few hundred rounds for break-in but that is also getting more rare. These are all high quality. Now, some claim one or the other to be cleaner in their particular gun, but something that is hard to measure. Some, will like some others better, either hotter (e.g. S&B, Win NATO ...) or softer (e.g. CCI ALUMINIUM, Cablelas TNJ ...).

Hangingrock
April 20, 2013, 07:17 PM
well i got in touch with ruger and they tell me wwb is "not a preferred" ammo for ruger.

I’ve not experienced a problem with WWB in Glock, SIG, S&W Gen-3 and the current MP9 series pistols. This in my opinion is a Ruger problem rather than a WWB problem. With thousands and I mean thousand’s of WWB fired not just a limited sample.

Potatohead
April 20, 2013, 08:12 PM
Any modern handgun that will not work well with WWB, Federal, or Rem UMC has a problem

not so fast my friend

HOOfan_1
April 20, 2013, 08:35 PM
Hickok45 did his chapter 2 on the SR9c with WWB. He had a hang up and blamed the ammo.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=R5JRZX8_TpM&list=PL5BAC3C9A38AD20D9

Hangingrock
April 21, 2013, 12:53 PM
As an example we have representative semiautomatic pistols from Glock, Ruger, SIG and S&W chambered in 9mm-Luger. The test ammunition is WWB lets say purchased from Wal-Mart. Three of the four pistols involved function with out a problem and one pistol is functionally problematic. Do we conclude the ammunition is the problem or the one pistol that was functionally problematic is the problem?

Potatohead
April 21, 2013, 01:57 PM
yea but what if that pistol can fire every other ammo w no problems?

HOOfan_1
April 21, 2013, 04:01 PM
As an example we have representative semiautomatic pistols from Glock, Ruger, SIG and S&W chambered in 9mm-Luger. The test ammunition is WWB lets say purchased from Wal-Mart. Three of the four pistols involved function with out a problem and one pistol is functionally problematic. Do we conclude the ammunition is the problem or the one pistol that was functionally problematic is the problem?

Since that doesn't seem to be the case here....why bring it up? I didn't see where the OP said the ammo worked just fine in other guns...

Hangingrock
April 21, 2013, 04:03 PM
yea but what if that pistol can fire every other ammo wproblems?

Yes but what if all four pistols fire other ammunition with no problems? What is the reason that WWB was problem free in three of the four pistols?

Hangingrock
April 21, 2013, 04:12 PM
Since that doesn't seem to be the case here....why bring it up? I didn't see where the OP said the ammo worked just fine in other guns...

Because the OP has only fired the Ruger pistol and believes WWB is the problem. WWB maybe a problem in the Ruger but in my experience with Glock, SIG, 3rd Gen S&W and the MP9 with extensive use in the multiple thousands of rounds fired it has been problem free.

HOOfan_1
April 21, 2013, 04:13 PM
Because the OP has only fired the Ruger pistol and believes WWB is the problem. WWB maybe a problem in the Ruger but in my experience with Glock, SIG, 3rd Gen S&W and the MP9 with extensive use in the multiple thousands of rounds fired it has been problem free.

And I have seen it give problems in other guns....
If the OP didn't shoot the same batch in other guns...then this exercise is moot.

Hangingrock
April 21, 2013, 09:03 PM
And I have seen it give problems in other guns....If the OP didn't shoot the same batch in other guns...then this exercise is moot.

May I ask what guns were those? The information would be informative.

HOOfan_1
April 21, 2013, 09:16 PM
May I ask what guns were those? The information would be informative.

Glock 19, Berretta 92

Several loads lighter than the rest...resulting in failure to eject

Potatohead
April 22, 2013, 07:42 PM
What is the reason that WWB was problem free in three of the four pistols?
Could just be the way the ruger is built? some guns dont like certain ammo , right?

Armybrat
April 22, 2013, 09:28 PM
I had a lot of WWB light primer strikes in my SR9 when it was new (& uncleaned) out of the box several years ago.

After a good shot of powder blast and a thorough striker cleaning & proper lubing, it ran like a champ.

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