.223 Help


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RockCreek
April 16, 2013, 03:33 PM
I have a fast question how does this happen.
See Pic

Thanks

(not posting details in fear of posters flaming me.)http://rockcreekmfg.com/prodimages/IMG_20130416_110425.jpg


Sorry about pic size

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blarby
April 16, 2013, 03:39 PM
This happens from a few possible causes :

1. Brass failure due to repeated FL sizings, and finally gave out ( scrap the lot ! )

2. Brass failure due to manufacturers error ( I've had a few WIN pieces do this on trigger pull one )

3. Enormously large headspace issue ( it would happen on dang near every shot )

4. Enormously large powder charging error.

5. Some combination of all of the above.


We need a little more data.... How many times fired ? Charge type ? Brass type ? Bullet type ? Firearm might even be useful.

ngnrd
April 16, 2013, 03:50 PM
(not posting details in fear of posters flaming me.)

Welcome to The High Road. I know you're new, but don't be afraid of getting flamed here. It's called The High Road for a reason.

Please, post as many details as you can. It's really the only way people can help.

IMtheNRA
April 16, 2013, 04:02 PM
It's pretty hard to help you if you don't post any details.

Welcome to THR.

fishshocker
April 16, 2013, 04:13 PM
it's called "case head separation" it happens for reasons listed above.

W.E.G.
April 16, 2013, 04:14 PM
Question for the OP?

What case gage are you using to measure your resized cases?

gab909
April 16, 2013, 04:59 PM
What are you using for a trimmer? I noticed that when I use the CTS trimmer that I just purchased, and love by the way, there is a wear spot after trimming. Right about where that separation is.

NeuseRvrRat
April 16, 2013, 05:33 PM
this will happen after enough full-length sizings of any bottleneck case, but .223 gets thin further up the case body than most others. like was said earlier, google "case head separation" and you'll find all the information you could want.

kingmt
April 16, 2013, 06:00 PM
If that was from one time of over pressure I'd say the bolt was about to give.

plodder
April 16, 2013, 10:53 PM
RockCreek: Welcome to THR. As for your 2 piece case; that scares me and I ain't scared of nothin! I'll leave diagnosis to the wise ones here, but please figure it out before touching off any others from the batch.

KansasSasquatch
April 16, 2013, 11:46 PM
Anyone else notice the unusual crimp around the neck? I'm used to seeing factory crimps on .223 brass but it's usually right at the case mouth.

Mike 27
April 16, 2013, 11:54 PM
I would say the marks around the neck was a crimp at one point. Could be wrong. How many firings and all of the info above that was requested would really help. "flaming" is not acceptable here and most are here to help you ensure this never happens too you again. Just need all of the details to tell you what went wrong.

kayaks
April 17, 2013, 12:17 AM
I agree, it would be good to hear a little more on the history of this case. Number of time its been resized, what it was resized with, trimming that's been done, gun details and what happened prior to it parting. I could guess on a couple causes, but the photo isn't enough.

higgite
April 17, 2013, 01:04 AM
Related question from a rookie: Is it common to see case head separation that far from the case head?

RockCreek
April 17, 2013, 05:56 AM
This is once fired reconditioned brass I received from a top brass it was already deprimed and swaged. My case gage is a dillon. using ACC 2230 at 25.5 grain.
was loaded on a dillon 1050. shot by a ar15 we had three of these out of 1500 bullets.

Hope this was all that was asked.

Sport45
April 17, 2013, 06:48 AM
When did it happen, on firing or did it pull apart in the sizing die? It looks pretty clean to have failed on firing.

Is Clyde the OP? If so, please don't post under different aliases. One is plenty.

IMtheNRA
April 17, 2013, 03:10 PM
Clyde or Rockcreek - whichever of you is the original poster: What made you think you're going to "get flamed" for posting this question in this forum?:confused:

kingmt
April 17, 2013, 03:52 PM
There is a lot of fun flaming that goes on here. Must of the time it it's from people that don't know what they are talking about also.

MEHavey
April 17, 2013, 04:16 PM
Something other than "classic head separation" is going on here. I've never seen one so far
up the case -- and with no soot marks. (If this was once-fired machine gun brass, though,
that might be where then case stretched. Someone else weigh in here.)

Still.....

I'd "paperclip test" the remaining empty cases.

Sasquatch: That neck (crimp?/constriction?) ring bothers me too.
RockCreek: Can you shed some light here?

.

blarby
April 17, 2013, 04:22 PM
Is Clyde the OP? If so, please don't post under different aliases. One is plenty.

One is more than plenty. Duplicate registration is specifically prohibited....

Anywho, I agree it is an odd case of separation. It almost looks pulled apart, on further inspection.

If you had three failures out of one round of shooting- I'd be dispensing with the rest of that brass... something is seriously wrong.

IMtheNRA
April 17, 2013, 04:36 PM
Top Brass processes and sells military surplus brass. If these were fired in a machine gun with a large chamber, could they have been stretched so much that they would break apart on the very first reloading?

blarby
April 17, 2013, 05:02 PM
They sure could have.

One of the dangers of buying milsurp brass.

RockCreek
April 17, 2013, 09:47 PM
Sorry about having a different name on my home computer. I could not remember the login while at work so I made a work related name. I will delete the home one.

I sent out over 3000 rounds to Olympic arms for there testing and when the boss drove up there Monday. They handed him the three shells and said "we got three of these". The boss came back and handed them to me and said find out what happened.
Other than that they loved the ammo I sent them and asked for 6k to 9k a month.
I need to find another source of brass if the topbrass is going to do this.

Thanks all for the info.

IMtheNRA
April 18, 2013, 12:23 AM
I don't think it is just Top Brass that can supply stretched out brass - you're going to risk this problem regardless of what *used* brass you buy. Much of "once fired" .223 brass on the market is bought as scrap metal from the military, then resold as used brass to handloaders. You'll never know if the lot you're about to buy was used in a nice tight rifle or an oversized machine gun chamber.

It may be worth your while to get some opinions of your resizing, case measuring, and reloading technique by posting a detailed description in this thread. Maybe someone might see something that you did to contribute to brass failure.

243winxb
April 18, 2013, 11:49 AM
Case stretch = separation, soon or later. Cause-oversize rifle chamber and/or oversizing the brass, resulting in excess cartridge head clearance. Clear rifle, keep shooting, not a problem.

W.E.G.
April 18, 2013, 11:55 AM
Did the headstamp of the failed case match the headstamp of the other cases from that same lot of brass?

Was the brass resized by the vendor?

Walkalong
April 18, 2013, 12:16 PM
Excessive headspace.

Brass sized excessively. (Shoulder pushed back too far)

Combination of those two.

Brass fired multiple times, and maybe sized excessively as well. Not too hard for a case that has been fired multiple times to get in a batch of "once fired".

Let me know which user account to do away with. (Rule #2 - http://www.thehighroad.org/announcement.php?a=20)

Welcome to THR.

IMtheNRA
April 18, 2013, 04:09 PM
Could it also be a timing issue due to an overgassed AR rifle? For example, if ejection started while the case is still pressurized and expanded in the chamber.

Jesse Heywood
April 18, 2013, 05:08 PM
Let me know which user account to do away with.

My vote is to keep Rock Creek. :D

kayaks
April 18, 2013, 06:45 PM
My vote is to keep Rock Creek. :D
Ditto!

RockCreek
April 19, 2013, 06:23 AM
Thanks for all the info guys. I asked the boss if there was any more info he could give me. He did not get to talk to the guy that shot the rounds either.
I will keep you updated if I find anything out.

You guys are a great resource keep up the good work.

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