Assault Weapons - What defines one...?


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Diesle
February 3, 2003, 12:31 PM
Im confused. What spicific parts define a weapon as an assault weapon? Every manufaturer makes a riffle that, to the common'er, looks like a banned assault weapon.

Please help me understand....

Diesle

Legal Ref:

The 1994 assault weapons ban - On September 13, 1994, Congress adopted the Violent Crime Control and Law Enforcement Act of 1994. That Act amended the Gun Control Act of 1968, making it “unlawful for a person to manufacture, transfer or possess a semiautomatic assault weapon.” 18 U.S.C. § 922(v)(1). The term “semiautomatic assault weapon” is defined to include 19 named firearms and copies of those firearms, as well as certain semiautomatic rifles, pistols and shotguns that have specified characteristics. 18 U.S.C. § 921(a)(30). The 1994 Act also banned the transfer and possession of “large capacity ammunition feeding devices,” defined to include magazines manufactured after the enactment of the Act that are capable of holding more than 10 rounds of ammunition. 18 U.S.C. §§ 922(w)(1), 921(a)(31).

The 1994 Act did not, however, prohibit the continued transfer or possession of assault weapons or high-capacity ammunition magazines manufactured before the law’s effective date. Manufacturers took advantage of this loophole by boosting production of assault weapons and high-capacity magazines in the months leading up to the ban, creating a legal stockpile of these items. In addition, in the years since the ban went into effect, manufacturers have successfully circumvented the law by making minor modifications to the weapons they produce. As a result, assault weapons and high-capacity magazines continue to be readily available - and legal - nationwide, except where specifically banned by state or local law.

The federal assault weapons ban is scheduled to expire on September 13, 2004.

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cheygriz
February 3, 2003, 12:41 PM
The pentagon, and most armies around he world define an assualt Rifle as:

1. Selective fire+++ REPEAT SELECTIVE FIRE++++
2. short, carbine length
3. Using a medium powdered cartridge. (In betwen a pistol cartridge and a traditional high powerd rifle cartridge.)
4. Light weight, at least as compared to precious mil;itary rifles.

Rebel Gunman HK
February 3, 2003, 12:43 PM
That rifle would be mine!!! And that cop is lying ! Fell out of his trunk my butt! Why do we accept lame @** excuses like that from the "authorites"? They think they we are really dumb.

stans
February 3, 2003, 12:48 PM
If I remember correctly, the term "assault rifle" was coined by none other than Adolf Hitler. He used the term "sturm gehwer" to describe a rifle chambered in a caliber that was less powerful than the 8x57 Mauser and more powerful than the 9mm (used in the MP-38/MP-40 machine pistol) was smaller than the KAR-98 Mauser and was capable of full automatic fire. The modern media applies this term to any firearm or other implement that can potentially be used to harm another human being. At some point I expect golf clubs and baseball bats to be labelled as assualt weapons.

Hoploholic
February 3, 2003, 12:50 PM
What cheygriz said!

Col. Mustard
February 3, 2003, 12:54 PM
They vary some by state, but in general (real military definitions notwithstanding) an "assault rifle" includes some combination of detachable magazines, folding stock, bayonet lug, pistol grip... and maybe other features I'm forgetting.

Rebel Gunman, I think you wandered into the wrong thread by mistake. Your thread is down the hall, to the right. :rolleyes:

He used the term "sturm gehwer"

Actually, it's "sturm Gewehr." Ask me how I know... :rolleyes:

Flying V
February 3, 2003, 01:06 PM
What defines an "assault weapon"? The reflexive twitching of hoplophobic politicians.
The only real assault rifles are those designated sturmgewehr by the Germans and Swiss.

XLMiguel
February 3, 2003, 01:07 PM
Ummm . . . assault is a behavior, not a device. That said, I don't see how any of the features listed make the weapon any more suited for assault versus defense, like what's the difference, really? It's all about CONTROL, not gunz.

Diesle
February 3, 2003, 03:03 PM
Well, Im clear as a whisle now....


Diesle

BigG
February 3, 2003, 03:12 PM
Separate pistol grip, detachable mag, folding stock, bayonet lug, flash hider. Any three of the above is classified by ATF as preban features or whatever hogswill terms they go by.

In short anything mfd after Sept 94 can have two of the dreaded features but not three. Most opt for the separate pistol grip and detachable mag and jettison the other features.

Hkmp5sd
February 3, 2003, 03:15 PM
Hopefully, after next year, an assault weapon will return to being a select fire rifle using an intermediate sized cartridge.

Diesle
February 3, 2003, 03:39 PM
OK, so pretty much everything in the Bushmaster line is illegal then.....?????

Im being facecious obviously. But, i would like to know how exactly this game is played.


Diesle

BigG
February 3, 2003, 03:46 PM
On a gun manufactured after Sep 94 you can have TWO evil features, NOT THREE. Referring to the AR15 type, the flash hiders they have now are called muzzle brakes or sompin and you will note that they have a small hole in the end vice a real flashhider which has a large hole. Also, I believe the muzzle brake is permanently attached to the bbl on the post ban. So they get THREE features by that dodge. The collapsible stock is a no no so they have come up with a faux collapsible stock that does not collapse. The bayo lug usually is just dispensed with. Clear as mud?

TallPine
February 3, 2003, 04:30 PM
I feel so much safer just knowing that I cannot be shot with a rifle with a pistol grip, a detachable mag, AND a bayonet lug on it, unless it was made before 1994. :rolleyes:

Hkmp5sd
February 3, 2003, 04:41 PM
But, i would like to know how exactly this game is played.

Ok, here's how ATF plays the game.

(30) The term "semiautomatic assault weapon" means --

(A) any of the firearms, or copies or duplicates of the firearms in any caliber, known as --
(i) Norinco, Mitchell, and Poly Technologies Avtomat Kalashnikovs (all models);
(ii) Action Arms Israeli Military Industries UZI and Galil;
(iii) Beretta Ar70 (SC-70);
(iv) Colt AR-15;
(v) Fabrique National FN/FAL, FN/LAR, and FNC;
(vi) SWD M-10, M-11, M-11/9, and M-12;
(vii) Steyr AUG;
(viii) INTRATEC TEC-9, TEC-DC9 and TEC-22; and
(ix) revolving cylinder shotguns, such as (or similar to) the Street Sweeper and Striker 12;

(B) a semiautomatic rifle that has an ability to accept a detachable magazine and has at least 2 of --
(i) a folding or telescoping stock;
(ii) a pistol grip that protrudes conspicuously beneath the action of the weapon;
(iii) a bayonet mount;
(iv) a flash suppressor or threaded barrel designed to accommodate a flash suppressor; and
(v) a grenade launcher;

(C) a semiautomatic pistol that has an ability to accept a detachable magazine and has at least 2 of --
(i) an ammunition magazine that attaches to the pistol outside of the pistol grip;
(ii) a threaded barrel capable of accepting a barrel extender, flash suppressor, forward handgrip, or silencer;
(iii) a shroud that is attached to, or partially or completely encircles, the barrel and that permits the shooter to hold the firearm with the nontrigger hand without being burned;
(iv) a manufactured weight of 50 ounces or more when the pistol is unloaded; and
(v) a semiautomatic version of an automatic firearm; and

(D) a semiautomatic shotgun that has at least 2 of --
(i) a folding or telescoping stock;
(ii) a pistol grip that protrudes conspicuously beneath the action of the weapon;
(iii) a fixed magazine capacity in excess of 5 rounds; and
(iv) an ability to accept a detachable magazine.

(31) The term "large capacity ammunition feeding device" --

(A) means a magazine, belt, drum, feed strip, or similar device manufactured after the date of enactment of the Violent Crime Control and Law Enforcement Act of 1994 that has a capacity of, or that can be readily restored or converted to accept, more than 10 rounds of ammunition; but
(B) does not include an attached tubular device designed to accept, and capable of operating only with, .22 caliber rimfire ammunition.

Pward
February 3, 2003, 04:41 PM
OK COL how do you know

Diesle
February 3, 2003, 04:48 PM
Hkmp5sd,

Excellent information. Can you site your source?

Thank you very much!

Diesle

gun-fucious
February 3, 2003, 05:56 PM
O. SEMIAUTOMATIC ASSAULT WEAPONS AND
LARGE CAPACITY AMMUNITION FEEDING DEVICES

(O1) What restrictions does Federal law impose on semiautomatic assault
weapons?
It is generally unlawful for a person to manufacture, transfer, or
possess semiautomatic assault weapons after September 13, 1994, the effective
date of the law. See the exceptions listed in Question O5.
[18 U.S.C. 922(v)(1)]



(02) How does the law define the term "semiautomatic assault weapon?"

The term "semiautomatic assault weapon" is defined to include 19 named
models of firearms and semiautomatic rifles, semiautomatic pistols, and
semiautomatic shotguns that have at least 2 of the features specified in the
law. Frames or receivers for firearms are not regulated as semiautomatic
assault weapons, since they could be assembled as a firearm other than the 19
named models of firearms. Likewise, frames or receivers are not semiautomatic
assault weapons under the "features" test of the law because they do not yet
have the features necessary to bring them within the definition.
Semiautomatic assault weapons in knockdown (disassembled) condition
consisting of a receiver and all parts needed to assemble a complete
semiautomatic assault weapon are subject to regulation if the parts are
segregated or packaged together and held by a person as the parts for the
assembly of a particular firearm.
[18 U.S.C. 921(a)(30)]

http://www.atf.treas.gov/pub/fire-explo_pub/qa.pdf

SEMIAUTOMATIC ASSAULT WEAPONS and
LARGE CAPACITY AMMUNITION FEEDING
DEVICES under Title 18, UNITED STATES CODE, CHAPTER
44 as amended by Public Law 103-322 The Violent Crime Control
and Law Enforcement Act of 1994
(enacted September 13, 1994)

§ 921(a)(30) The term 'semiautomatic assault weapon' means:

(A) any of the firearms, or copies or duplicates of the
firearms in any caliber, known as -

(i) Norinco, Mitchell, and Poly Technologies Avtomat
Kalashnikovs (all models);
(ii) Action Arms Israeli Military Industries UZI and Galil
(iii) Beretta Ar70 (SC70);
(iv) Colt AR-15; (v) Fabrique National FN/FAL, FN/LAR, and FNC;
(vi) SWD M-10, M-11, M-11/9, and M-12;
(vii) Steyr AUG
(viii) INTRATEC TEC-9, TEC DC-9, and TEC-22; and
(ix) revolving cylinder shotguns, such as (or similar to) the Street
Sweeper and Striker 12;


(B) a semiautomatic rifle that has an ability to accept a detachable
magazine

and has at least 2 of

(i) a folding or telescopic stock;
(ii) a pistol grip that protrudes conspicuously beneath the action of the weapon;
(iii) a bayonet mount;
(iv) a flash suppressor or threaded barrel designed to accommodate
a flash suppressor;
and
(v) a grenade launcher;

Hkmp5sd
February 3, 2003, 06:02 PM
Federal Firearms Regulations Reference Guide 2000 (http://www.atf.treas.gov/pub/fire-explo_pub/2000_ref.htm)

PART 178-COMMERCE IN FIREARMS AND AMMUNITION (http://www.atf.treas.gov/pub/fire-explo_pub/part178.pdf)

Hard Charger
February 3, 2003, 07:42 PM
If you want to know everything about the ban, and how to make it go away:

www.awbansunset.com


If you want to see how it is written in the U.S. Code:

http://www4.law.cornell.edu/uscode/18/921.html

http://www4.law.cornell.edu/uscode/18/922.html



There is a lot of interesting stuff in those two sections.

Waitone
February 3, 2003, 08:04 PM
Post-processed equine digestive residue.

Whereas Mr. Hitler based his definition on capability, those who would protect us in the US base their definition on cosmetics. I can not think of any American being harmed by being bayoneted with an "assault rifle." But then again we are not in the business of dealing with facts, we deal with perceptions.

It would be interesting to take the bATFE's definitions are relate them to the game of golf.

ModIMark0
February 3, 2003, 11:01 PM
If you really want to get an idea of the range of the definition of 'assault weapon', you should know that when California created its infamous 'assault weapons' ban, a single barrelled, single shot break open shotgun was on the list. Why? Because, the manufacturer Encom put a ventilated barrel and pistol grip stock on it, and when the people looked through lists of firearms, guess what stood out? So the CM-55 became a 'semiautomatic assault weapon' until it was deleted from the list in 1991. Ironically, the so-called 'assualt weapon' (the semiauto Chinesee Kalashnikov) that started the move in California and the U.S. was not included in the ban because of drafting errors (I believe that California's ban initially defined the 'assualt weapons' by name rather than by their charactersitics).

Travis McGee
February 4, 2003, 01:56 AM
To the folks bent on banning them, an "assault rifle" is exactly the same as "semi automatic."

As far as they are concernted, a Ruger 10-22 is an "assault rifle."

I even wrote a book (well, I'm almost finished it) about what happen in the weeks after all semi auto rifles are banned, following an "assault rifle massacre" in a packed football stadium.

The book is called "Enemies Foreign And Domestic", and you can read the first half of it free at this link.

http://matthewbracken.web.aplus.net/

ModIMark0
February 4, 2003, 04:28 PM
If that is you in the "About the Author" (the photo of the individual with the MAC 10) page of the site you posted the link to, I am guessing that you know Kevin Dockery. Another photo of you shooting the same SMG is in volume 1 of his book 'Special Warfare, Special Weapons: The Arms and Equipment of the UDT and SEALS 1943 to the Present Day'. I am still looking for volume 2. I also enjoyed reading one of the chapters of your book. Thanks for having a portion of it online.

T.Stahl
February 4, 2003, 05:03 PM
Actually Hitler didn't like the idea of a Sturmgewehr at all.
That's why the first Sturmgewehre initially where called Maschinenpistolen.

sw442642
February 4, 2003, 05:29 PM
Any gun that antis don't like is called an assault weapon or a sniper rifle or a Saturday Night Special.

The techy debate can go on but for political purposes a gun person arguing about what Hitler said has no real utility. For our debates, it is a civilian, semi-auto version of a military used long arm.

If you try to argue the Hitler stuff, ordinary folk thing you are nuts. They go on the simple black gun bad appearance rule.

We need to convince people it is OK to have such guns and not try to dance around the fact that they are only semi auto versions of military weapons and thus wimpy. We want them as they are NOT wimpy.

Dad-Gummit
February 4, 2003, 05:29 PM
But wasn't my muzzleloader the "assault" weapon of the 1800's?

Travis McGee
February 4, 2003, 11:02 PM
MODIMARKO:

Yep that's me with the MAC. But I didn't know Kevin Dockery.

alan
February 4, 2003, 11:49 PM
diesle:

The technically correct definition, of "assault weapon" or "assault rifle" is as follows, though our "law givers", who likely wouldn't know the difference have written their own, is as follows. Pardon me for "shouting". SELECTIVE FIRE WEAPON, USUALLY OF RIFLE CONFIGURATION, CHAMBERED FOR AN INTERMEDIATE POWER CARTRIDGE. In the proverbial nutshell, that is the beginning, the middle and the ending of it.

For example, the first and only "assault rifle" ever used by the military forces of this country was M-2 Carbine. It was "of rifle configuration", and it was chambered for that "intermediate power cartridge". Most important, it "had selective fire capability".

The foregoing should, I hope, answer your question.

Diesle
February 5, 2003, 12:09 AM
Thank you all very much.

I think I got what I was looking for. Both through your info here and some subsequent research based on your comments....

Thanks alot!

Diesle

Tamara
February 5, 2003, 12:22 AM
Actually Hitler didn't like the idea of a Sturmgewehr at all.

Yeah, he kept asking "Can zis rifle carry bombs?" ;) :D

T.Stahl
February 5, 2003, 03:28 AM
Indeed. After watching the performance of the Me262 for the first time, he even forbade to talk about the new plane in any connection other than as a fast or blitz-bomber. :banghead:

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