Keeping rust out of minor pitting


PDA






monotonous_iterancy
April 16, 2013, 09:48 PM
I've decided that this week I'm going to deal with my rusty SKS once and for all. I've tried (and mentioned here before) to get rid of all of it, but it's never entirely taken. So I'm pulling out all the stops. Steel wool, oil, brass scraping for tough stuff.

But how do you keep rust from reappearing in small pits? I'm thinking about getting a RIG rag or grease and filling them with it.

If you enjoyed reading about "Keeping rust out of minor pitting" here in TheHighRoad.org archive, you'll LOVE our community. Come join TheHighRoad.org today for the full version!
OilyPablo
April 16, 2013, 10:20 PM
Bag the steel wool.

Are you stripping all the way? Use emery paper - finer and finer as required.

Very important is CLEANING. Clean with near boiling hot water and Simple Green, rinse with boiling water. Dry very well and oil with a GOOD oil.

monotonous_iterancy
April 16, 2013, 10:25 PM
By stripping, do you mean stripping the bluing or the rust? I'd like to keep as much original finish as possible, I don't mind some character. It's not caked on rust, at this point it's just annoying. I'd like to keep this rifle for the rest of my life.

Does boiling remove the rust? Does it weaken the steel?

OilyPablo
April 16, 2013, 10:34 PM
By stripping, do you mean stripping the bluing or the rust? I'd like to keep as much original finish as possible, I don't mind some character. It's not caked on rust, at this point it's just annoying. I'd like to keep this rifle for the rest of my life.

Does boiling remove the rust? Does it weaken the steel?

By stripping I meant to bare metal. Now I see that's NOT where you want to go.

Stick with brass wool and oil. Get in the pits as much as you can, but if the steel is pitted it's already a bit late. Anyway, keep it up. THEN do the water cleaning. You need to get all the salts out of there. The boiling doesn't remove rust and it will not weaken the steel at all. The reason the rust returns to the pits is because of salts/sweaty corrosive junk that only HOT water will remove. Simple Green helps clean that and the oil residue.

OilyPablo
April 16, 2013, 10:37 PM
Also find a guy in your area that does blueing. YOU may be surprised at how much you will like your reblued gun.

What gun are we talking about? Is is a true collectable? Never reblue a collectable, but if it's a shooter a nice reblue is something to behold.

monotonous_iterancy
April 16, 2013, 10:46 PM
It's an older Norinco, one of the ones with a screw-in barrel. It was a birthday present for myself that I picked out at a gun show around the time of the first panic. Not knowing what I know now, I got this one, which came with an unreliable 30 round duckbill mag. I thought it was a model D, so I didn't mind it being a little banged up. It's actually a run of the mill Norinco, although one of the more desirable ones, so I've been told.

Recently I replaced that junk mag with a factory 10 rounder. It shoots great now, and the bore is likewise. But I think that whoever had this before me didn't take very good care of it.

I've thought about possibly having it re-blued someday, but I don't know how much it costs.

OilyPablo
April 16, 2013, 10:51 PM
Ask around, most areas have a couple guys with bluing tanks. Talk to them and view their work. One guy blued a beater Camp 9 project gun for me. Charged ~$80 (as I recall) for the rifle if I brought it fully prepped. Totally new gun to me. Very nice.

monotonous_iterancy
April 16, 2013, 10:56 PM
Well, most of the finish on mine is still there. But it's nice to know that it doesn't cost much to refinish it. I've seen a newer Norinco with shinier bluing than mine.

I actually got a lot of rust off once with #3 wool. It was the first time I ever tried de-rusting anything, and most of it came right off. Though it was probably too course. Now I use 0000 and get frustrated at the lack of results, and the shavings that it leaves behind. Maybe I'm doing something wrong.

OilyPablo
April 16, 2013, 11:05 PM
Problem with steel wool is exactly that. Iron left behind adds to rust problem.

monotonous_iterancy
April 16, 2013, 11:31 PM
Does that mean that the solution is bronze wool? That leaves behind things too. With steel, so long as I wipe the shavings off I'm fine, right?

OilyPablo
April 16, 2013, 11:43 PM
Hard to tell how bad it is. When I hear the word "pits" I think bad. You say it keeps coming back - that worries me. You need to clean it with something that will dissolve and remove all the salts - even MPro 7 will help.

Try some bronze wool. It won't scratch the bluing and the stuff left behind won't rust!

Steel wool (#0000) will work, just clean it really well when done.

natman
April 17, 2013, 03:48 AM
Gentle rubbing with 0000 steel wool with light oil.

Once you get the old rust off, keep it from coming back with Breakfree COLLECTOR (http://www.amazon.com/Break-Free-Collector-Squeeze-Bottle/dp/B004SB0KPC) oil.

Comrade Mike
April 17, 2013, 11:12 AM
+1 for steel wool and kroil. The oil will lift the small metal particles away from the surface as you work the rust off.

mtrmn
April 17, 2013, 02:19 PM
Tear it down completely, thoroughly degrease all parts, bead blast all the old finish and rust away until you have new metal with a matte look to it, degrease it a couple more times, then PARKERIZE it all, soak all the parts in oil and re-assemble. Excellent rust-resistance and a much heavier-duty finish than bluing. Just my opinion-YMMV.

monotonous_iterancy
April 17, 2013, 10:13 PM
I've never tried kroil.

If I were to have it re-blued, would it look "natural"? What kind of bluing did they use on these?

^ I've heard that parkerizing can fill in small pits, and I have some barely noticeable ones on mine. Wouldn't it make the letterings and markings unreadable though? Is it cost effective?

joeschmoe
April 17, 2013, 11:06 PM
How are you storing it? Well ventilated with a little heat?
Rust is a disease. Once infected you will have to work hard to prevent a relapse.

monotonous_iterancy
April 17, 2013, 11:15 PM
It's in a metal gun cabinet containing a dessicant pack, in a gun sock, as are my other firearms. This rifle already had rust on it before I started doing that.

Is it possible that the cabinet resting against an exterior wall could be causing moisture build up?

OilyPablo
April 17, 2013, 11:15 PM
Moisture and salts/corrosives are the enemy. I keep saying over and over, no matter what what decision is made, the rust won't stop until the junk is washed away. In most cases only water based cleaners will do this once in place. Once really clean, then oil. But oil won't get the junk out of existing rust pits.

I live in a very wet place, I know how to battle this stuff.

joeschmoe
April 17, 2013, 11:42 PM
Desiccant packs always become less effective over time and eventually stop working completely. It needs ventilation and a little heat. All air has some moisture. The trick is to prevent that moisture from condensing on the cold steel as the temp/humidity change. Air circulation and slightly elevated temp are tactics to prevent moisture build up.
I wouldn't use the gun sock. Instead use a Goldenrod or an incandescent bulb inside the cabinet. By keeping the air inside slightly warmer than outside the cabinet, warm/moist air is forced out of the cabinet and prevents condensation. A constant drying effect. Regardless of the actual temp/humidity.

ColtPythonElite
April 17, 2013, 11:50 PM
Before a reblue job, I would just sell it and buy a nicer one.

Maj Dad
April 18, 2013, 12:05 AM
Getting back to one of your original questions, RIG is one of the best at protecting from rust. Most of the guys I know who exhibit at gun shows (and still allow people to handle them) use it on their nice weapons & never have a problem. Another good one that you can spray on is Birchwood Casey's Sheath, which I think has been renamed Barricade. Honestly, I left a dozen or more guns in an un-air conditioned house in Alabama for over a year while I was in Korea, wrapped in mover's kraft pads in a gun safe, all sprayed liberally with good ol' WD-40, which I allowed to dry on the metal before wrapping. Not a single spot of rust when I got back - so when people go off about how crappy it is, I just smile & spray some more. Not to say it is the best by any means, but it's not as bad as some would have you believe ;)

monotonous_iterancy
April 18, 2013, 12:47 AM
Before a reblue job, I would just sell it and buy a nicer one.

Why so? Wouldn't it cost less to have it refinished than buy a whole new gun?

Some of the things that keep me from buying a newer Norinco is that mine has a screw-in barrel, as opposed to pinned, so are the newer ones of better construction? Are they both as accurate (as much as an SKS can be)?

Also, it might be trivial, but I like that mine has darker wood. I like darker wood.

If I found a Russian, then none of that would matter, but they seem to be fairly difficult to find.

ColtPythonElite
April 18, 2013, 01:08 AM
A good blue job is gonna run about $200 bucks. You should be able to upgrade for equal or less money and end up with a nicer original just like what you have.

monotonous_iterancy
April 18, 2013, 09:13 AM
I didn't know it was that expensive. I'll definitely consider it.

Should I also look at Albanian and Romanian ones too? I don't know much about non-Chinese, non-Russian SKS'. I know that Yugoslavians don't have a chrome lined barrel, which is a must have for me.

Lucifer_Sam
April 18, 2013, 12:28 PM
Well, since its prone to rust, and you're not that concerned about appearance, you could just do a quick and dirty rust bluing, or just rust blue that areas that are problematic. Degrease as well as you can, apply the solution, let it rust, than steam it over boiling water and card. It looks a bit different than normal rust blue when you steam (at least when I did it), but not bad. After a few repetitions wax it. It would be good practice if you're interested in doing a good rust blue job in the future, too.

monotonous_iterancy
April 18, 2013, 11:53 PM
I care about appearance, but I don't mind a little character. However, I don't want this gun to become a rusted out paperweight in 10 years or so, so I'm leaning towards selling it and getting one with better metal. I'm sure someone would like something to work on, or something to use as a project, someone who has the skills to take care of it better than I can.

.

mtrmn
April 19, 2013, 10:02 AM
Parkerizing will SLIGHTLY fill the lettering, but it will still be as readable as it is now if done properly. Still the best solution if you can find someone that does it or do it yourself. JMO

Lucifer_Sam
April 19, 2013, 01:22 PM
I care about appearance, but I don't mind a little character. However, I don't want this gun to become a rusted out paperweight in 10 years or so, so I'm leaning towards selling it and getting one with better metal. I'm sure someone would like something to work on, or something to use as a project, someone who has the skills to take care of it better than I can.

.

Well, if you decide to sell, feel free to PM me what you want for it. I might be interested.

monotonous_iterancy
April 19, 2013, 05:57 PM
Well, if you decide to sell, feel free to PM me what you want for it. I might be interested.

If I do decide to sell it, I'd like to secure a good quality example first. Would armslist be a good place to find one? I looked last night, and there were a number of people asking like $5-600 for their Norincos of all sorts. A lot of over-pricing.

Also, just curious, how much would it cost to parkerize it?

Lucifer_Sam
April 19, 2013, 08:16 PM
Look like they are going for 380-480 or so on GB. You might get lucky at a local shop, depending on your area and such. Looks like some Russians might be selling low for what the Norincos are selling for high on GB.

I'd guess parking would be about the same $ as bluing, maybe a bit cheaper, but thats just a guess.

OilyPablo
April 19, 2013, 08:21 PM
I say ask around on bluing. I know there are guys around that will do it for under $100. They don't advertise, just do it friends or referral. They bought the tanks, gained the knowledge and do it on the side.

4v50 Gary
April 19, 2013, 08:32 PM
In rebluing a firearm, the metal is polished to remove the metal above the surface of the rust pit. A careless polisher like Buffing Bob will round the corners, change the screw holes to oblong and remove some of the markings.

I'd clean up the pit and then fill it with beeswax or RIG.

monotonous_iterancy
April 19, 2013, 08:35 PM
Part of the problem with steel wool is that I don't see results. With the much coarser stuff I used the first time, it came off quickly, left sort of a soupiness that was wiped off easily. Now, with 0000, I spray oil on the area, and the piece of steel wool, and I rub, but little seems to happen, and when I wipe it off, there's nothing.

Also, what does it mean if it's rust you can only see under a strong light?

mtrmn
April 19, 2013, 10:25 PM
I parkerized a few handguns several years ago and they came out very nice. You'll need access to a bead blaster to prep the gun. This will remove the old finish and rust and leave a matte, kinda rough finish. The parkerizing solution mixes with water and you have to heat it to about 180F. You MUST use a stainless or ceramic pan for heating. All the parts will have to degreased COMPLETELY and handled with rubber gloves to keep fingerprints off. You only have to cook the parts about 30 minutes. I did mine on a coleman camp stove. A long gun will be a bit more difficult than my handguns. As for cost, I haven't checked prices on the stuff lately--do a search on ebay, Amazon, Brownells etc.

The bead blasting will NOT elongate screw holes and will not obliterate writing etc as long as you only do it enought to remove the bluing.

Lucifer_Sam
April 20, 2013, 01:13 PM
Part of the problem with steel wool is that I don't see results. With the much coarser stuff I used the first time, it came off quickly, left sort of a soupiness that was wiped off easily. Now, with 0000, I spray oil on the area, and the piece of steel wool, and I rub, but little seems to happen, and when I wipe it off, there's nothing.

Also, what does it mean if it's rust you can only see under a strong light?

The coarse wool might be the root of the current problem. It might have scored the surface and given rust a place to purchase. Not sure how you'd deal with that if there is bluing to preserve. I guess I'd try to polish with extra fine wool then heat it and use wax or RIG. If there was no bluing to worry about I'd polish it with 1000 to 2000+ sandpaper followed by polishing compounds then use the wax or RIG.

monotonous_iterancy
April 20, 2013, 03:45 PM
I've thought that might be part of the problem, but when I did it, there was no visible scratching or finish wear. Could it be microscopic or something?

joeschmoe
April 20, 2013, 04:13 PM
Sand blast + hard chrome = Bling! :D

monotonous_iterancy
April 21, 2013, 07:25 PM
Bottom line about using steel wool, how exactly do you use it? I can work for hours and accomplish little. It's not just with this gun, but everything I have that has rust on it.

I think I'm doing something wrong. When people say gentle, how gentle are we talking? How long does it take to remove rust?

monotonous_iterancy
April 21, 2013, 10:50 PM
I've also tried using Liquid Wrench before, it it makes any difference.

Lucifer_Sam
April 23, 2013, 11:59 PM
Let it soak, scrub, repeat. I've left parts in oil for extended periods of time and had the rust basically slough off. I'd left them to soak for a while, though, like months. It was a good synthetic with detergent, don't remember which one, might be Mobil 1

monotonous_iterancy
April 24, 2013, 12:16 AM
That sounds like a good idea. Soak something for a few days, a week. That stuff doesn't take off bluing?

One thing that I can't seem to get rid of is this stain on the bolt carrier. It's probably rust because it's caused minor pitting, but even though I've lightened it, it still comes back. I've even scrubbed at it with aluminum foil, and it goes away, but the color comes back within a short time, and by short, I mean within the space of a day.

If you enjoyed reading about "Keeping rust out of minor pitting" here in TheHighRoad.org archive, you'll LOVE our community. Come join TheHighRoad.org today for the full version!