how bout the .32 auto cartridge?


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Potatohead
April 17, 2013, 05:05 PM
I was wondering about a p32 for the wife yesterday and everyone obliged, so today i'd like to know how everyone feels about the actual bullet/cartridge it fires. im no mathematician but i guess its bigger than a .22 and smaller than a .380..? hows the performance, range, and whatnot. im new to this so hopefully the question makes sense. the dilemma is of course that she doesnt like the recoil of our sig p238 (.380) and im just thinkin the .22 as a self defense ammo wouldnt be up to snuff? is a .32 a step up, realistically? or does it really matter? (and i do know shot placement is more important:)

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Potatohead
April 17, 2013, 05:14 PM
i guess range might have more to do with the actual firearm

Walkalong
April 17, 2013, 05:39 PM
The size, weight, and design of the gun will make a big difference in recoil, but the .32 ACP will have less recoil than the .380, and significantly more than a .22. I carry a Seecamp (http://www.thehighroad.org/attachment.php?attachmentid=150080&stc=1&d=1317422254) in .32 ACP quite often. Recoil in a light polymer pistol will not be light, but certainly not bad.

BigG
April 17, 2013, 05:52 PM
32 ACP is 30 caliber. The effectiveness of the 32 Auto is better than no gun at all, but not much.

R.W.Dale
April 17, 2013, 05:54 PM
I'm of the opinion that in these small uber light pocket pistols the 32 is a superior cartridge to the 380 simply because they're in my experience much much more shoot able and therefore accurate.

380 is no powerhouse and IMO is a fmj only proposal as is the 32. As such performance will be similar so why not go for more accuracy, capacity, less recoil AND in the case of the p32 vs the p3at a last round slid hold open feature.

MedWheeler
April 17, 2013, 05:58 PM
It's not a powerhouse, but it is certainly capable of significant effectiveness in the hands of a determined and well-trained shooter. It's not known for good levels of penetration, so many who carry it load with solid rounds (I do simply because that's what I can find.)

There are concerns with rounds that are shorter in overall length than FMJ ones being in the magazine, as .32ACP rounds have a rim that is wider than the case, and one round in the magazine can get hung up on the round below it. This condition is known as rimlock, and results in a failure of the gun to be able to feed the round from the magazine. There are ways to prevent it, and you can read more as you go.

The Kel-Tec P32 is what I carry when in travel toa dnfrom my no-carry job site (I carry a PF9 at all other times.) It's super-light, easy to conceal and carry, and not at all punishing in fire. It's an "up-close-and-personal" defensive piece, not intended for long-range target competition or even plinking.

I chose it over the nearly-identical .380 version from Kel-Tec for three reasons: less recoil, allowing for faster target re-acquisition, an extra round in capacity (7-round magazine), and a last-shot slidelock.

My first-impression range-review thread can be found here: http://www.thehighroad.org/showthread.php?t=599654

unspellable
April 17, 2013, 09:53 PM
I regard the 32 ACP as the absolute minimum. The 22 LR has priming that is too unreliable for self defense. The 25 ACP about matches the 22 LR for effectiveness. I consider the 32 ACP only because it's a step uo from the 25 ACP and available in very compact guns. There are hollowpoints that will work.

As for recoil, a lot of these small guns have unpleasant recoil in spite of the small cartridge because the gun is so light and has such tiny grips. I have the Kel=Tec P32 and its big brother in 9 mm. The 9 mm is rather unpleasant to shoot due to being light and having a rough square grip. As opposed to shooting the 9 mm in a Luger which is a full service sized pistol and fun to shoot.

MICHAEL T
April 18, 2013, 01:11 AM
KelTec p-32 choic of the ladies in my house. I like it also But went to the 380 KelTec as they kept taking my P-32's

SharpsDressedMan
April 18, 2013, 12:38 PM
If you like guns, and like automatics, you HAVE to have a .32 something or other. I currently have a 1964 Walther PPK, a 1913 Colt Hammerless, and a French 1935A in the obsolete 7.65 Long, which is a bear to find reloadable brass for, but a hoot to shoot. It is a nicely made and well balanced gun that has to be felt to appreciated, and gets a 85gr JHP going 1150fps; nothing to sneer at. The .32ACP WILL kill you, and it makes a nice small game gun when you want something a notch or two up from the .22lr. Don't forget to use Speer, Hornady, or Winchester JHP's for small game, but FMJ's might be the best if pressing the gun into a defensive role, because of improved penetration.

saltydog452
April 18, 2013, 01:12 PM
These days, I'm not likely to win a fight or a foot race. I do have, at least, a stick and a .32 ACP.

I got a good .32 and I like it in a 'fuzzy comfy' way. Its loaded with reliable, in my NAA, cast 32 ACP from Buffalo Bore. Supposedly, the Buffalo Bore RNFP is stepping out at 1150.

At contact distance, I imagine the gas would convince the assailant to give it up and take a nap more so than the 75 grain projectile.

A hip pocket holster and a bandanna are neat accessories.

Front pocket carry, maybe not so much.

Best to you.

salty

Onward Allusion
April 18, 2013, 01:31 PM
We have three P32's for a reason. One is pretty much on me during all waking hours. My wife, too - except for her office.

I know it is a smaller caliber, but it is better than pepper spray (in most situations), a knife, a sharp stick, or harsh words. Recoil is extremely light on a P32. Recoil is in the range of a blowback 25ACP because of the delayed blowback design. (YES, I KNOW IT's LOCKED BREACH. I call ALL the different varieties delayed blowback. Eh, sorry, old crusty moment.) Follow-up shots are fast and easy unlike 380's.

I absolutely love the 32 cartridge. Got a few revolvers chambered in 327 and they shoot the most cartridges of any gun I have, even the 32ACP will work in 'em.

BTW, I would not recommend a pocket pistol in .22LR. There just isn't enough energy out of those 2" barrels. I mean why a .22LR or .25ACP when you have the P32 that is smaller and lighter than most modern 22LR pistols (not NAA).

Shadow 7D
April 18, 2013, 01:45 PM
Don't listen to the 'not enough' crowd, cause they won't tell you what enough is
.32 is SHOOTABLE, yea, you can carry a larger caliber in a little gun, but close don't count
A P32 is SMALLER than you wallet, LIGHTER than your wallet, and carries 8 round, it's ENOUGH gun, and .32 works great at 'social' distances

kBob
April 18, 2013, 01:59 PM
Sharpes Dressed Man

I seem to recall a John Malloy article about the froggie 35A and its Petersen device ammo. I seem to recall that there was some discussion about making a spacer using a steel cased .30 carbine case cut down to a little ring to make up the difference in length between .32ACP and the 7.65 long and using plain vinella .32 in the Froggie gun......much as some folks modified those Swede 9mm Browning long guns and some folks modified Astra 400s for 9x19 only.

Might look into whether numerich or such has a spare barrel and sleeve that puppy.

As to the .32 ACP......when Brother JM Browning came up with it that thing was right up there with half the worlds military pistols in terms of power and penetration. Better has come along, but I don't see the .32 ACP as less powerful than it was in 1899.

I have yet to have anyone ask if that is a P32 in my front pocket or if I am happy to see them.......

-kBob

mach1.3
April 18, 2013, 02:36 PM
Every married citizen on this forum has pondered this same question. What is the best carry option for our wives? My wife and I both hold a CHL in the Great State of Texas. While she has carried everything from a wee Beretta 950S Minx to a G26 she now claims her favorite range/carry gun is my Kimber TLEII or should I say formerly mine. She likes that the recoil is better than the G26 and the knockdown power is of course legendary. She can hold it easily with two hands, she can rack the slide, change out mags reasonably well, shoots it accurately at 20-25ft. and can carry it comfortably in any number of her collections of purses. I told her she won't be able to go to the store and plop her purse down on the counter in front of the register and search for her credit card. This would lead to a small amount of mayhem if the clerk or the people behind her in line peep her piece. She has decided that this is her best option and I agree she should carry it once she gets totally proficient with the safety and C&L'd mode. I guess I'm lucky she hasn't spied my Wilson Combat, Ed Brown, Les Baer, Nighthawk or Colt Gold Cup.

BTW: She tried my P220 but did not like the double action trigger pull and much preferred the SA trigger of the 1911.

Potatohead
April 18, 2013, 03:18 PM
Hey thx everyone. My questions are answered

loose noose
April 19, 2013, 12:26 PM
I like the Fiocchi 60 grn XTPHP, the penetration is fairly good and the expansion is really good at 7-10 yards. As previously mentioned the recoil is not all that significant in my Beretta Tom Cat.:)

weregunner
April 19, 2013, 03:37 PM
There is a case for the .32 ACP.

Anything I was going to say is already in the link/s.
http://www.taurusarmed.net/forums/700-s/74023-rerun-case-32acp.html

I do own a decent number of .32ACP pistols, but also own a few in .380ACP and other and larger calibers.

The Taurus 732, NAA Guardian, Beretta Tomcat, are sometimes primary guns in the horrible heat and humidity of summer that this place gets. Usually though they become a secondary or back up gun to the main one.

However I also own 3 Taurus PT132 Millennium Pros and a CZ 83. These can be used as main guns if necessary.

I'm getting old and if I become infirm these guns can take up the slack from the larger caliber handguns. The limitations of the cartridge are will known but not something to sneeze at or turn up the nose at.

I still like and use the 9x19,.45ACP, and the .380ACP in medium frame guns for most of the CCW carry battery.

HoosierQ
April 19, 2013, 05:02 PM
I would skip .380 on the way down from 9mm and go straight to 32 ACP. .380 guns are (so many of them anyway) rather unpleasant to shoot and thus one will not practice sufficiently. A nice PPK or PP or other similar gun in 32 ACP will be fun to shoot and thus will result in less flinching and better familiarity with the weapon.

A nice, all steel PPK or PP is going to be enough gun for self defense, especially outside the home. You plan on gun fighting, you'd better bring an M4 I think.

Matt Dillon
April 21, 2013, 01:11 AM
Do 't forget, the .32acp round was the shot that started WW1, and if it was good enough for John Moses Browning, with the correct shot placement it will work!

Kiln
April 21, 2013, 02:22 AM
The .32acp is good enough but far from the best. I'd prefer 9mm or .40S&W (yes I'm a fan) any day of the week but in certain circumstances they .32acp is ideal.

It can be fired from very small pistols with relatively low recoil compared to similarly sized guns. It is accurate at close range and gets decent penetration at close range. I've got several .32acp pistols and if I got to choose my own ammo, I wouldn't feel afraid to carry them.

Drail
April 21, 2013, 10:55 AM
Where I come from we call that round a "poodle shooter". It works really well for that.

Potatohead
April 21, 2013, 11:02 AM
haaaaahaaaaaaa..poodle shooter

bigdaa
April 21, 2013, 11:27 AM
Got one, a CZ70. I call it an "Opera Gun". This one does not reliably chamber the ammo I have for it for the feed ramp can use some attention.

It is a snappy round and at confrontational distances serves it's human sized target acquisition well. Having roughly 8 shots it beats a wheel gun for capacity but in general, one must find the absolute most reliable functioning rounds for it where a wheel gun doesn't care.

The size is palm so concealing it is cake. Good ammo is available along with the hyper ammo with lightweight bullets. This stuff is above 1000fps in a stubby barrel and near 150 ftlbs energy. Buffalo bore has some ammo for it in the 1100 plus FPS range however because they push to max pressure, their rounds have resulted in mags being ejected upon firing in some cases.
They do have another 100ftlbs energy for that one shot though.

jimbo555
April 21, 2013, 02:41 PM
Most of the woman I know can handle anything a man can with some practice and training. Start your wife on a 22lr and when she's ready let her decide what handgun is right. For me I don't go to the opera so I have no use for a 32acp! I don't go less than 9mm in a semi-auto.

Grunt
April 21, 2013, 03:46 PM
Well, let me start out by saying that a good hit with a small caliber is still far better than a miss with a larger caliber. That being said though, keep in mind that the .32 ACP is AWFULLY light!!! When combined with a P32, the ranges need to be kept short and there is not much room for error when it comes to putting the bullet where it needs to go. Can it kill a bad guy? Sure, so will a .22 short for that matter. Can it stop a fight? In theory, yes, depending on the placement and the bad guy that needed shooting, what their physical size is, mindset and weather or not they are on any mind-altering narcotics just to name a few factors. Are these small calibers my first choice? Not by a long shot. Yes, I have a P32 as well and it does fill the role of being a backup gun as well as for times where wardrobe prevents me from carrying anything larger. I mean, it's better than a sticks and stones but it's still not my preferred caliber to carry. I tend to follow Jeff Cooper's advice on the matter, carry the largest caliber gun you can control and accurately place your shots. If you can't handle anything larger than a .32 ACP, then so be it, stick with that .32 ACP. However, if you can handle a larger caliber, go with that.

Kiln
April 21, 2013, 04:10 PM
Got one, a CZ70. I call it an "Opera Gun". This one does not reliably chamber the ammo I have for it for the feed ramp can use some attention.

It is a snappy round and at confrontational distances serves it's human sized target acquisition well. Having roughly 8 shots it beats a wheel gun for capacity but in general, one must find the absolute most reliable functioning rounds for it where a wheel gun doesn't care.

The size is palm so concealing it is cake. Good ammo is available along with the hyper ammo with lightweight bullets. This stuff is above 1000fps in a stubby barrel and near 150 ftlbs energy. Buffalo bore has some ammo for it in the 1100 plus FPS range however because they push to max pressure, their rounds have resulted in mags being ejected upon firing in some cases.
They do have another 100ftlbs energy for that one shot though.
I've got a CZ70 next to me right now. It has been reliable with lots of different ammo types but it is well worn and broken in. Accurate enough, holds 9+1, has relatively low recoil, an works great.

Matt Dillon
April 21, 2013, 07:04 PM
The CZ70 shoots S&B .32ACP and my reloads flawlessly, but the chamber really is designed for the bullet profile of the Czech S&B ammo. When I first started loading this round for this gun,I used LRN projectiles, and could not get them to chamber reliably for love nor money. The profile was more rounded and blunt, vs. the S&B profile which was more spitzer shaped. I had to seat my projectiles deeper in the case than I would have dreamed, in order to get them to chamber reliably. A very accurate little gun. I suggest a change of magazine springs will help it feed more reliably.

Shadow 7D
April 21, 2013, 07:18 PM
A Cz 50/70 is a completely different animal than a poly P32, one glaring example is the P32 is a locked browning design VS. the Cz's blowback

WinThePennant
April 21, 2013, 07:26 PM
...

CZguy
April 21, 2013, 11:05 PM
Most of the woman I know can handle anything a man can with some practice and training. Start your wife on a 22lr and when she's ready let her decide what handgun is right. For me I don't go to the opera so I have no use for a 32acp! I don't go less than 9mm in a semi-auto.

If a .32 is appropriate for an opera, what type of activity is a 9mm best used for?

And, does that mean that when I carry a .45 ACP to the grocery store that I'm over armed?

CapnMac
April 21, 2013, 11:54 PM
The .32acp is a fascinating bit of kit.
It was the "police" round for much of Europe, the 9x19 being a "military" caliber.

Now, the only .32acp i ever owned was a Colt 1903--and it was fun to shoot. I did not tote it about as a carry piece--although some previous owner had, from the wear. The heel mag catch is not my fave for EDC--from a lifetime of thumb release use more than anything else.

That Colt fed every kind of .32acp I could get to feed it, even the Silvertips.

The only annoying thing was that it's not an easy caliber to find jags & brushes for. Yeah, "it's a 'thirtry' ", except that it's .3125, not .308 nor the .355 of 9mm. So, you have to double-patch a .308 jag to clean the bore (or hunt around shows until you find the right guy with a .32s&w jag & bushes).

Potatohead
April 22, 2013, 01:42 PM
interesting stuff yall

potmetal
April 22, 2013, 07:00 PM
I have an FEG AP7, which is the same as the more common PA63, but in .32acp. It's a very nice, accurate, reliable pistol. I feel like it is a gun I can trust and is small enough to carry. I've shot some of those plastic DAO micro pistols in bigger calibers and didn't like the triggers or the recoil. The .32 in a PP clone works for me.

Potatohead
April 22, 2013, 07:37 PM
I have an FEG AP7

never heard of one but just ckd it out...looks pretty neat..how much?

alex4922
April 22, 2013, 08:15 PM
Back in the '70s I traded off a Colt 1903 .32acp to a friend. He got in between a sociopath and a beaten woman and had a gun pulled on him.
Long story short it was a one shot stop..through the heart (fmj 71gr). It
was ruled a justifiable homicide.

Though I really feel good carrying a piece of major caliber, many times I do drop my p32 in a pocket and go. If I may suggest, the lazer that fits on the trigger guard doubles or triples the accuracy.

A

Kiln
April 22, 2013, 10:02 PM
never heard of one but just ckd it out...looks pretty neat..how much?
I don't know what the quoted member paid for his but mine was about $175 in like new condition about two years ago. Great gun. It and the PA63 are nearly identical with the advantage of capacity going to the AP7 and the advantage of power going to the PA63.

Recoil is much lighter and easier to manage with the AP7. All in all I'd highly recommend them if you're not put off by the .32acp as a defensive piece. One piece of advice, if you clean under the grips be careful. There are two free floating pins that hold trigger components in place that will fall out if you aren't careful. Otherwise they're excellent all around.

Walkalong
April 22, 2013, 10:14 PM
It was the "police" round for much of EuropeMy Beretta and CZ are both retired police weapons. I would feel well protected with either one.

CZguy
April 23, 2013, 12:45 AM
My Beretta and CZ are both retired police weapons.

How about a photo? :)

rondog
April 23, 2013, 02:26 AM
For $400, I picked up a 1914 Mauser Pocket Pistol and a French MAB Model C, both in .32acp. The Mauser had an issue with not firing - it wasn't releasing the striker reliably. I finally figured out the sideplate was slightly bowed outward instead of being flat, so I gently tapped it 'til just a tad concave, and now it seems to put enough pressure where needed, and the striker dry fires reliably every time now. Can't wait for some test firing.

The MAB seemed to work OK the one time I had it out, but the trigger is awful. I figure I didn't get hurt at $400 for both. If they prove reliable, they may go into CCW rotation. But I prefer the PA-63 for pocket duty.

Onmilo
April 23, 2013, 03:47 AM
People that actually shoot .32 acp come to realize it really isn't any worse or better than the .380 acp which was originally conceived for the American market demand for a trim semi auto that shot and hit about the same as the very popular at the time .38 S&W revolver round.

Folks here never really latched on to the .32 acp because they were used to the very poor performance of .32 caliber revolver rounds with the exception of the .32/20 and everybody knew they were not going to fit that kind of power into a pocket pistol size semi auto.

Folks in Europe, on the other hand, were well aware of the truely sad performance of the European Military 7mm and 8mm revolver rounds and found the .32 acp quite a step up in actual capability, plus the guns were smaller and carried one or two more shots than the revolvers and could be reloaded much faster than the European wheelgun designs.

The .380 offered Americans what they wanted, a semi auto pistol cartridge that could fit in a gun near as trim as any state of the art break open belly revolver that hit near as hard, was generally more accurate than most of the revolvers, and, as an added bonus, usually carried one or two more rounds on board to the common five shots of a revolver.

Pick you poison and run with it.
Personally, I have not found most pistols running the rimless .380 round to be as accurate or as reliable as pistols running the semi rimmed .32 acp and they tend to generate more muzzle blast, flash, and recoil than the .32s but that's me. Draw your own conclusions.

JERRY
April 23, 2013, 04:35 AM
i like the .32acp and feel it has its place for ccw where other guns or calibers prove to be too much for the carrier.

id trade a S&W J frame wheely for a stainless walther ppk .32acp or the Sig 230 .32acp

potmetal
April 23, 2013, 07:50 AM
J&G Sales had the AP7 and a version FEG made marked as an FN, for sale recently. The AP7 was $199, the FN was $219. Both came with 2 mags. I think they were still listed this past weekend.
Online distributors seem to be short on .32 ammo right now, but I've found plenty just going around to pawn shops in the area.

Potatohead
April 23, 2013, 09:31 AM
yea ive seen 32 ammo everywhere (not online) i go lately. thats actually another reason i was interested

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