So what exactly happened today?


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The_Next_Generation
April 17, 2013, 07:29 PM
There's a lot of excitement going about on what didn't make it today. However, I am a little confused as to where we ACTUALLY stand at this point in time. Has the UBC, mag ban, and AWB been OFFICIALLY killed? If they haven't yet, when will they be voted on?

Please only credible sources.

Thanks,
- TNG

Edit:
Someone wanted to see a list of who voted for what. Here ya go!
http://www.senate.gov/legislative/LIS/roll_call_lists/vote_menu_113_1.htm

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USAF_Vet
April 17, 2013, 07:34 PM
Read the last page of the debate thread. So far all amendments to the bill have failed with one or two left to go.
The bill is scheduled for tomorrow, but Reid may simply pull it so it doesn't get a vote.

Either way, with no amendments passing, the bill is as good as dead.

Cosmoline
April 17, 2013, 07:37 PM
It's a rout. Of course they will be pushing hard in 2014 to get their own people in. And we will need to push right back supporting our friends (D & R alike) and ousting our foes (also regardless of party).

PRM
April 17, 2013, 07:42 PM
What happened was the POTUS threw a pre-adolescent temper tantrum on national news. His unbridled rage and contempt for elected officials who don't line up with his socialist agenda was disgusting and demeaning of the office he holds.

788Ham
April 17, 2013, 07:47 PM
POTUS is just showing his true colors, "My way or the highway!" Harry Reid even voted against it, said that way, "We'll be able to bring it up again." Whatever kind of nonsense that means.

Bullz
April 17, 2013, 07:52 PM
I would like to see this "POTUS temper tantrum"... any links to this? I love seeing him act like a fool.

jfrey
April 17, 2013, 07:58 PM
Poor little barry didn't get his way so he is mad. SO WHAT! It's about time he was kept from corrupting our whole country.

Bullz
April 17, 2013, 08:04 PM
nevermind... I found it. not bad.

http://www.washingtonpost.com/politics/obama-on-failed-gun-legislation-pretty-shameful-day/2013/04/17/19764b72-a7a4-11e2-8302-3c7e0ea97057_video.html

if anyone is interested...

Cosmoline
April 17, 2013, 08:05 PM
He sounded like a teacher dressing down students. What a sad joke.

The_Next_Generation
April 17, 2013, 08:16 PM
Makes sense now. And that video is hilarious...he loves that 90% figure.

Robbins290
April 17, 2013, 08:43 PM
Is there anyway to tell who voted what? I curious what the mainers voted on

jreagan
April 17, 2013, 08:46 PM
POTUS is just showing his true colors, "My way or the highway!" Harry Reid even voted against it, said that way, "We'll be able to bring it up again." Whatever kind of nonsense that means.
Under Senate rules (actually Roberts Rules of Order), only people on the "winning" side can make a motion to reconsider a vote. By voting against it, Reid is giving himself the ability to reintroduce the amendment if he can get enough votes.

HOOfan_1
April 17, 2013, 08:52 PM
Our system of legislation set forth in the Constitution actually worked...if Obama thinks that is shameful, then he needs to resign immediately.

The_Next_Generation
April 17, 2013, 08:57 PM
Here is a link to see who voted for what:

http://www.senate.gov/legislative/LIS/roll_call_lists/vote_menu_113_1.htm

Robbins290
April 17, 2013, 09:15 PM
Thanks next generation.

abajaj11
April 17, 2013, 09:55 PM
Round 1 is over. The battle to keep our freedoms rages on....we cannot let up.....keep calling...keep the pressure on...take back state legislatures (in NY & CT and CO)and the Us Senate in 2014....
Please consider giving the NRA and GOA as well.
And CALL YOUR SENATORS TO thank them!
:)

zxcvbob
April 17, 2013, 10:03 PM
Does no good to contact my senators, they both vote however Feinstein tells them to. They already know how I feel about that. :cuss:

4season
April 17, 2013, 10:11 PM
nevermind... I found it. not bad.

http://www.washingtonpost.com/politics/obama-on-failed-gun-legislation-pretty-shameful-day/2013/04/17/19764b72-a7a4-11e2-8302-3c7e0ea97057_video.html

if anyone is interested...

At 11:50 mark "This is round 1," is about the closest he come to the truth. Truthfully this is the first victory our side has had since the Brady Bill. But the left will sure try to take our rights again.

And what is this 90% he keeps talking about? Did he do a poll among his communist buddies to get this number?

MaterDei
April 17, 2013, 11:26 PM
Is there anyway to tell who voted what? I curious what the mainers voted on

There were a lot of amendments voted on. The Manchin-Toomey amendment was considered the one with the most support. Here is a link to the vote on that amendment. (http://www.senate.gov/legislative/LIS/roll_call_lists/roll_call_vote_cfm.cfm?congress=113&session=1&vote=00097) Both of your Maine senators were on the wrong side of the vote.

leprechaun50
April 18, 2013, 12:39 AM
Does no good to contact my senators, they both vote however Feinstein tells them to. They already know how I feel about that.

I agree

mosseybuck
April 18, 2013, 12:55 AM
Both of my senators are bought and paid for by bloomberg and nobama. Their replies to my letters and emails said "go fly a kite", or words to that effect!

BBQJOE
April 18, 2013, 02:32 AM
"This bill represented progress, moderation and common sense"

It represented none of these things Barry. That's why it was voted down.

Go find something to fix that IS broken.

Thursday45
April 18, 2013, 04:55 AM
Nice to see that, despite both of my senators (MT) being Democrats, they voted against it. The enemy of my enemy is my friend?

Hacker15E
April 18, 2013, 08:54 AM
Just a small victory in a much larger, longer battle to maintain Constitutionally-protected freedoms.

Stay vigilant -- this is not the last time.

HOOfan_1
April 18, 2013, 09:53 AM
Yeah hearing much more of the anti rhetoric today. They are so angry they were kept from TAKING. That is all they are interested in...TAKING. TAKING our guns. TAKING our money.

They will bully, and exploit and con their way to their legislative goals....but when they don't get their way, they play a 5 million member organization.

Let's see in this mid-term election...will those who voted against the UBC bill be ousted as vehemently as those who voted for Clinton's 1994 AWB? That will tell the real tale. Although you will never hear the media or the antis admit that....nope, they actually want to push the crap on us that the NRA...and only the NRA is shaping gun politics in this country. :rolleyes:

AlexanderA
April 18, 2013, 10:23 AM
This whole thing was about positioning for the 2014 elections. The antis fervently believe that gun control is a winning issue for them; the pro-gun side fervently believes the opposite. We'll see who's right. I personally think that the only guaranteed result is more geographic polarization.

Beach Nut
April 18, 2013, 10:30 AM
As many of my fellow posters have said, we have won this battle but
the struggle continues to protect the Second Amendment. Seeing Joe
Biden with his lower lip poked out a mile at the President's news conference
was priceless! I watched the President's news conference with the volume
turned down; I cringe just about any time I hear him speak.

HankR
April 18, 2013, 10:33 AM
nevermind... I found it. not bad.

http://www.washingtonpost.com/politi...057_video.html

if anyone is interested...

What's with the flag behind him? In particular, does our flag now have a gold stripe along the bottom edge, or does Barry now have his own flag?

PRM
April 18, 2013, 02:39 PM
I agree that this is positioning for the 2014 mid-terms. Why do you think the POTUS was so angry. This was supposed to pass the democratically controlled senate and fail in the Republican controlled house so they could take the blame. The POTUS can't even get some things past his own and that is what caused the tantrum.

mgkdrgn
April 18, 2013, 03:39 PM
Nice to see that, despite both of my senators (MT) being Democrats, they voted against it. The enemy of my enemy is my friend?
Must be they figured out not much of that "90%" lives in MT!

cor_man257
April 18, 2013, 04:34 PM
The inaccuracy coming straight from the President's mouth is insulting.

mljdeckard
April 18, 2013, 04:45 PM
Pay close attention to post #30.

I am fortunate enough to have lawmakers from my state who don't need reminding. The NRA has even got our lone democrat pretty well house-trained. But I am glad to talk to them and ask them what I can do to help anyway.

If I lived in CA, honestly, I wouldn't waste too much energy on B-Box and Di-Fei.

But if i lived in Colorado, I would work at it non-stop. Even after recent setbacks, they are still very much in play. The recent surprise they pulled on us needs to wake them up and make people realize that the fate of their state is being decided RIGHT NOW. Colorado might be the most critical battle right now.

breakingcontact
April 18, 2013, 05:01 PM
Agree with this.

We'll see who's right. I personally think that the only guaranteed result is more geographic polarization.

And what is the natural outcome of this? Additionally, these states that believe in control and not freedom are failing economically, the free states are thriving...

How is this not going to set up some sort of conflict between the states? Economic sanctions against other states? Some states signing laws bonding them together economically?

Sauer Grapes
April 18, 2013, 05:13 PM
At about 4:30 EST on 1210 WPHT out of Philly, Pat Toomey will be on the radio. Should be interesting.

16in50calNavalRifle
April 18, 2013, 07:27 PM
I second Cosmoline's succinct strategy outline, with regard to supporting reasonable candidates and incumbents and trying to unseat unreasonable incumbents. In the western/mountain states, in general, his point about "of either party" applies and is important (to the poster up-thread from MT, your two senators, I think embody this pattern - western/mountain Dems have long been reasonable on "gun control" issues).

The "either party" approach, sadly, is hardly applicable elsewhere any more. Certainly not on the coasts (outside the SE). Which is not to say the GOP types are "reliable" in any sense - on the contrary. Just that while many GOP types these days will easily go along with further shredding of the constitution, evisceration of the rule of law, and indefensible liberty-killing and ineffective "solutions" to insoluble problems, they are far less likely to INITIATE such deplorable actions (esp. in the "gun control" arena). Take CA. A ridiculously mismanaged and mis-governed place, insolvent, in many respects lawless, firmly in the grip of pseudo-science, racism, and greed (public sector greed). But it's hard to imagine many of the dozens of absurd and unconstitutional "gun control" laws being on the books if there were a GOP majority in either house for the last two decades. The GOP is far less reliable than it was - the Dems (with exceptions) are unrecognizable (and not just on "gun control"). So I'd add that important caveat to Cosmoline's sound observation.

CA might (I said might) have a rather odd situation that may mitigate the damage (for now). Gov. Brown, certainly an interesting character among contemporary political figures, has always shown a striking appreciation for both the constitutional and practical problems of "gun control" ideas. As attorney general he filed a supportive brief on a key SCOTUS 2nd Amendment case (can't recall if Heller or MacDonald) - that had to cause a stir among many of his very dim and dangerous supporters. A friend tells me he also made a public comment in December not long after the CT events, something to the effect that "CA does not need any more gun control laws". (I have not documented that).

The last few years have removed nearly 100% of my confidence that I understood and could forecast (to some degree) the political behavior of the country - after decades spent inside the Beltway actually gaining my understanding first-hand (including years working in the Senate). Even before 2008, things started to seem surreal. Of course 2008 and after have offered one jaw-dropping, pinch-myself-am-I-really-seeing-this moment after another. Now I don't recognize most of the country, and remain in a state of shock and disgust even years into the nightmare.

I speculated a few weeks back to friends that the last remaining "third rail" of US politics might just be "gun control". So far, on a national level, it seems to be. For now.

lilguy
April 18, 2013, 08:19 PM
This will never be over. We can never rest. Our enemies grow stronger every year, with Bloombergs billions in their corner they have resources to attack our supporters at election time. Complacency will kills us off faster than anything else.

Texshooter
April 18, 2013, 08:54 PM
Pay close attention to post #30.

I am fortunate enough to have lawmakers from my state who don't need reminding. The NRA has even got our lone democrat pretty well house-trained. But I am glad to talk to them and ask them what I can do to help anyway.

If I lived in CA, honestly, I wouldn't waste too much energy on B-Box and Di-Fei.

But if i lived in Colorado, I would work at it non-stop. Even after recent setbacks, they are still very much in play. The recent surprise they pulled on us needs to wake them up and make people realize that the fate of their state is being decided RIGHT NOW. Colorado might be the most critical battle right now.
IF the media will portray that.

The media has, in a relative fashion, never given obama the grief deserved over doing so little while controlling both the house & senate.

WE have to find ways to get the story out to neutral Americans

bk42261
April 18, 2013, 09:05 PM
We people in Maine need to be getting active NOW!!
Both Collins and King were all in favor of this crap,and, in the Congress, we have Michaud and Pingree.
Let's get together and find some REAL 2nd Amendment supporters to run.

TheSaint
April 18, 2013, 10:33 PM
If you want to get people involved in Maine, remind them that Windham Weapons brought 65 jobs back to the state after Bushmaster was sold. Beyond selling people the 2nd Amendment story, sell them the success story of small and medium businesses that are employing our fellow citizens in this horrible economy!

A-FIXER
April 18, 2013, 10:47 PM
4season
Member



Join Date: January 27, 2013
Posts: 95 Quote:
Originally Posted by Bullz
And what is this 90% he keeps talking about? Did he do a poll among his communist buddies to get this number?


According to Wilkow the 90% is from a MSNBC POLL OF 1007 people, out of that bunch only 27 republicans, the rest dems and was a skewed question and wholla... you have your 90+% it was tonights show..

spoogie
April 18, 2013, 11:13 PM
A more direct link to who voted Yea or Ney.

http://www.senate.gov/legislative/LIS/roll_call_lists/roll_call_vote_cfm.cfm?congress=113&session=1&vote=00103

-S

husbandofaromanian
April 19, 2013, 08:02 AM
I think this was a very big setback for the left. They spent a lot of political capital on this and lost.

Diamondback6
April 19, 2013, 09:38 AM
Not unless we remember in November 2014, and boot a buttload of those who voted for this crap from office. We need to make it so that outside DiFi and Upchuck's turf 2A infringement becomes as radioactive as someone wanting to resurrect Jim Crow...

k_dawg
April 20, 2013, 08:46 PM
Ironically, the UBC amendment would have watered down the UBC requirements in the current bill. So in a way, the GOP and a few democrats voted to keep it 'strong'.

Harry Reid was the one who pulled the bill.

mgmorden
April 22, 2013, 05:44 PM
33 Senators (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/United_States_Senate_elections,_2014) are up for re election on November 4,2014.

Combined with the vote totals on today's amendments posted up by The Next Generation (Thank you!) in #14, and it gives us a lot of motivation and informaion on how to proceed on that important day.

I noticed a decent trend in the data: for the 33 that are up for grabs, if you look at the 2008 results almost all the races that were close, almost all went to Democrats.

If you look at the latest predictions charts too, you'll see that all current Republican states are listed as either Safe Republicans or Likely Republicans.

Everyone that falls into either "Leans" category or as a Tossup is currently a Democrat, and one analysis is even putting West Virginia into the "Likely Republican" category.

Or to be basic, most of the "swing seats" in this are currently held by Democrats. Unless something major happens I think we have a great opportunity to improve our position come 2014.

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