Have you ever had a stuck case like this?


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Grassman
April 18, 2013, 03:56 PM
Have you ever had a .40 get stuck on the case flair die? Man this thing is stuck and won't budge. Any thought on how to get it off? I have loaded hundreds of rounds with these dies at this setting and this is the first stuck case I ever had. These are RCBS carbide dies.

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243winxb
April 18, 2013, 04:09 PM
Heat expands? :confused:

Grassman
April 18, 2013, 04:10 PM
I've thought about that.

rcmodel
April 18, 2013, 04:13 PM
That right there borders on the 'can't happen' school of weird things.

I'd lay it on a flat steel surface like a bench anvil and tappy tap around it with a small hammer enough to expand the brass case on the steel expander.
Then it will have to fall off.

But I have a feeling there is something going on besides a brass case getting stuck on an expander.
I just don't have a clue what it could be.

rc

brickeyee
April 18, 2013, 04:13 PM
These are RCBS carbide dies.
The only carbide is the thin ring in the sizer die.

jmorris
April 18, 2013, 04:15 PM
In all my years loading, I would have to say I have never had that happen.

Grassman
April 18, 2013, 04:17 PM
RC, I have loaded hundreds of rounds with this set up, never a stuck case, and all rounds have cycled and fired flawlessly, so I'm stumped. The only thing is maybe this batch of brass was dirty, I didn't tumble it?

Grassman
April 18, 2013, 04:18 PM
The head is all boogered up due to using pliers to try to get it off. No luck.

readyeddy
April 18, 2013, 04:32 PM
Cut it with a dremel.

rcmodel
April 18, 2013, 04:33 PM
The only thing is maybe this batch of brass was dirty, I didn't tumble it? That had nothing to do with it.

I loaded for years & years before I had a tumbler and never ever saw anything like that.

rc

JoeDaddy
April 18, 2013, 04:40 PM
I've heard that using a water based tumbler will cause tight expansion. The carbon residue inside the case mouth acts as a lubricant of sorts, and the water based tumblers removes it all.

Did you switch cleaning methods recently?

Grassman
April 18, 2013, 04:43 PM
I've heard that using a water based tumbler will cause tight expansion. The carbon residue inside the case mouth acts as a lubricant of sorts, and the water based tumblers removes it all.

Did you switch cleaning methods recently?
Nope, just crushed walnuts. But this was a new batch of once fired I got in, looked ok so I didn't tumble it.

JoeDaddy
April 18, 2013, 04:45 PM
Maybe they (the seller) water cleaned them....

45lcshooter
April 18, 2013, 04:53 PM
Wow. Never seen that. I would think if you have one of those butane mini torches, heat the case up a little and tap with a hammer.

KansasSasquatch
April 18, 2013, 05:36 PM
I would try a propane or MAPP gas torch but I'd probably submerse the expander in a glass container full of water just leaving the brass in the air. It should anneal the case mouth and make it easier to pull off.

Jesse Heywood
April 18, 2013, 05:45 PM
You can melt the brass and not hurt the steel. Main thing is to heat the brass fast. But try tapping it per rcmodel first. That will thin the brass, causing it to expand and come off. (If you work it enough it will fall off.)

After you're through you will probably have to polish the expander, then apply some wax. It will work as a sealer and lube.

Walkalong
April 18, 2013, 06:17 PM
I'd lay it on a flat steel surface like a bench anvil and tappy tap around it with a small hammer enough to expand the brass case on the steel expander.
Then it will have to fall off.This will work.

Squeaky clean brass and expander with a poorly fitting shell holder?

J.R.W.
April 18, 2013, 06:34 PM
I'm guessing it was placed on top of the shell holder instead of in it.

Grassman
April 18, 2013, 06:37 PM
I'm guessing it was placed on top of the shell holder instead of in it.
You know what, that is a possibility. Hadn't thought of that. That would make it shove about a 1/4" further in.

Grassman
April 18, 2013, 06:38 PM
I don't recall it ripping out of the shell holder.

243winxb
April 18, 2013, 07:45 PM
Dillon expanders had a problem at one time. Starline had a fix for it. Bass may stick on the NEW Dillon expander/powder funnel. It would seem to be a design problem. Starline has a fix for it if using there brass. Its posted on Starlines FAQ. The unit is reshaped/modified. Quote: Originally Posted by Starlinebrass/FAQ Why is it very hard to get expander and powder funnel back out of case? There are two situations that create this problem. The first is one we have just recently identified. It seems to be associated with the dillon powder funnel and only a couple of calibers (45 Auto and 40 S&W). The land for expanding case mouth is too long and when you begin to bell mouth the bottom of expander gets into the thicker taper of case and wedges causing it to be very hard to get back out. We have modified several by increasing radius on end and slightly shortening expanding land and this eliminated the problem completely. Call Starline and we will take care of it if you wish. One other cause can be a burr at case mouth created by the final trim operation, which grabs onto expander as it comes back up. This situation does not often appear and can be fixed by deburring case mouth or inside lubing cases. Could there be a 9mm case inside that 40? :D

Grassman
April 18, 2013, 08:05 PM
Dillon expanders had a problem at one time. Starline had a fix for it. Bass may stick on the NEW Dillon expander/powder funnel. It would seem to be a design problem. Starline has a fix for it if using there brass. Its posted on Starlines FAQ. The unit is reshaped/modified. Could there be a 9mm case inside that 40? :D
No chance, it was sized and deprimed first.

rcmodel
April 18, 2013, 08:07 PM
I'm guessing it was placed on top of the shell holder instead of in it.That has to be the answer.

There is no possible way you could tear a rim off on a expander.

rc

FROGO207
April 18, 2013, 08:14 PM
That is why I like my cheap Lee dies, all it takes is a 1/4 inch rod or punch and hammer to remedy this problem if it should happen.:D I agree that it was probably set on top of the shell holder when pressed up into the die.

ReloaderFred
April 18, 2013, 09:06 PM
I've had that happen with new Starline .38 Special brass, and others have experienced the same issue. The brass has to be lubricated, since bare brass sticks, rather than slides. I solved the problem by tumbling the new brass prior to the first loading, which imparted some lube (dust, media, or whatever) to the inside of the cases.

I stuck several before I figured out the problem, even changing dies. I stuck them on Lyman, RCBS and CH expanders, but after tumbling them, I never stuck another one. I had two of the cases pull in half, leaving the top half of the case stuck on the expander, and about 20 cases were stretched to the point they were ruined, as I could see where they nearly separated when pulled from the expander die under great pressure.

The way I got the stuck half off the expander was taking a Dremel Tool, with a cut off wheel, and very gently cut a groove along the side of the case, from the case mouth down to the end of the expander. You don't want to go all the way through the case and mess up the expander. You just want to get the brass thin enough to release the tension, and once that's done, it will slip right off.

You may have brass galled onto the expander, too. Once you get it cleared, you might have to polish any stuck brass particles off the expander.

Hope this helps.

Fred

CLP
April 18, 2013, 09:22 PM
I've heard that using a water based tumbler will cause tight expansion. The carbon residue inside the case mouth acts as a lubricant of sorts, and the water based tumblers removes it all.

Did you switch cleaning methods recently?
Then you'd expect to see that with virgin brass...

Edit: Hmm, I see the guy above mentioned having a similar problem with Starline. I know what he's talking about, but this is a different beast altogether. I solved that Starline problem and 'light sticking' on the Dillon expander by ensuring a little bit of FA spray case lube got in the case mouths. Didn't need the lube in all of them either. But I think other posters are spot on about the case being on top of the shell holder.

MEHavey
April 18, 2013, 09:59 PM
Brass expansion 10.4E-6 in/inF
Steel expansion 5.5E-6 in/inF (half that of brass)

Put the expander head in a vise, put visegrips lightly on case head, ...and pull while playing a torch lightly all around the stuck case wall to heat it.

Mike 27
April 18, 2013, 10:09 PM
I think the torch would be your best bet. The brass is going to melt quickly and fall off.

Walkalong
April 18, 2013, 10:49 PM
No it won't. Use rcmodels advice. It will come off easily. Heating it lightly while pulling can work if you get it off before the steel heats up.

jmorris
April 19, 2013, 02:37 AM
If it happened because you put it on top of a shell holder on a single stage, how about putting it all back together, align it with the shell holder and snap it into place (they rotate 360 degrees), and bring the ram down. Then carry on like it never happened.

Simple and you don't have to beat or heat anything.

Grassman
April 19, 2013, 06:39 PM
Well, took the expander to the shop and put the brass head in a vice, took a little doing but it came out. Definitly had the brass on top of the shell holder. No way it would have been set that deep otherwise. What a weird circumstance. You would think the brass would fall off shell holder, but it was set there perfect and slid right in the die. Just one of those things......:rolleyes:

dalv
April 19, 2013, 07:10 PM
Is that a "clingon"?
Maybe call Capt. Kirk :D

mtrmn
April 20, 2013, 07:48 AM
If it happened because you put it on top of a shell holder on a single stage, how about putting it all back together, align it with the shell holder and snap it into place (they rotate 360 degrees), and bring the ram down. Then carry on like it never happened.

Simple and you don't have to beat or heat anything.
Here's your winner, although I know you've already got it off by other means.

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