Will this vote ease the demand for ammo?


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larryh1108
April 18, 2013, 10:12 PM
Since the bill failed to be passed, is it now time for the ammo shortage to come to an end? Hopefully this will give the fringe owners, who shoot maybe once a year, the confidence to go back to their norm of pre-Newtown days.

If the panic-driven demand ceases and the market for the over-priced ammo shrinks (how many hard core owners pay $50 for 50 rounds of 9mm target ammo?) then the people practicing free enterprise won't buy up everything they can and the 2 boxes in reserve casual owner won't need ammo. This should allow the supply/demand curve to catch up and get us back to whatever the new norm will be. Can this actually come to pass?

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mljdeckard
April 18, 2013, 10:15 PM
If it does, it will be hard to tell. Keep in mind, the ammo panic was never rational, no one was ever talking about banning any ammo. A lot of people doing the panic buying might not have any idea when or why the crisis is over.

In any event, it will take time for supply to catch back up with demand.

Tomcat47
April 18, 2013, 10:15 PM
I actually suspect the ones that lost this battle to heat up there Ammo Tax....

Will it pass... probably not! But our hurdles still lie ahead of us regarding Firearm freedoms...

It will sneak up on us if we allow it in form of ammo restrictions and taxes.

Not completely home free yet, but we have made a great lead in the race.

TheSaint
April 18, 2013, 10:15 PM
I went into two LGS's and a Walmart today.

Wally's had six boxes of 9mm in stock, some 45 ACP and tons of 5.56, like fifty boxes! According to the department manager, they even have 223 in stock tomorrow morning.

In the local gun stores, they too have considerable pistol and even some rifle ammo in stock. Things look to be improving in my part of the woods. Online stores are going to continue to be out of stock for a while as any available ammo is going to be hoarded by whomever gets the email notification first and checks out. Your local sources are best right now. Get friendly with the management and staff and you'll get the inside scoop.

The ammo shortage will take care of itself as people stop buying at inflated prices. I just say "no", no matter how much I want it. Things are going to improve slowly.

MK75
April 18, 2013, 10:16 PM
It would make sense if the ammo craze did not slow down at all. A lot of people believe that since they couldn't get the guns, they will go after the ammo next. It may only get worse for us.

DJW
April 18, 2013, 10:23 PM
My crystal ball is a little cloudy but I guess it will take many months and perhaps an election or 2 going in a reasonable direction for ammo to ever get back to "normal" again. Hope I am wrong but this administration scared the devil out of anyone with a lick of sense or any respect for the constitution.
These psycho power-mad politicians got hysterical and inflamed 1/2 the nation with their inflammatory rhetoric. Talk about the "gun show loophole" (which is simply individuals selling personal property) and "internet gun sales" (which we know involves an FFL for anything shipped) was designed to outrage the public into supporting ever bigger and more intrusive government is textbook nazi tactics. "The big lie" worked for hitler and damn near worked for obama. If you are too young to know what the big lie is then google is your friend. Remember, they are not through with their attempts to usurp as much power as they possibly can. We have been effectively disarmed without any new laws being passed!

Bruno2
April 18, 2013, 10:34 PM
I dont think it will. OTOH I see a lot of ammo being inherited by family members in the future. I think people will keep buying and hoarding. None of the ammo companies seem to be interested in expanding their operations. Which is strange IMO because our population is growing every year. So regardless if the panic buying stops we still have new gun owners born every day.

Sam1911
April 18, 2013, 10:44 PM
It can only help, but the trend back down has already started.

larryh1108
April 18, 2013, 10:54 PM
I'm hoping the casual shooter will feel a comfort zone hearing the "gun ban" failed and will back off. I believe the casual shooter is the one paying 3x the price for ammo. If these buyers stop paying the stupid prices then the guys stocking up to sell to the fools won't need to wait at Wally World at 6:00am every day. Their market would have dried up. They weren't buying it for their personal stash but to make some money from the fools.

If talk of an ammo embargo or tax comes into play, we'll have this type of shortage well into the future. We can only hope the prez doesn't start talk of an ammo attack to get even with us. If he does, all bets are off.

Ignition Override
April 19, 2013, 03:11 AM
Will the new shooters and those who are indentured slaves to the Facebook etc culture (don't watch mass media) hear about the Senate vote, and comprehend it?

Queen_of_Thunder
April 19, 2013, 08:26 AM
Not until the noise surrounding the Second Amendment dissipates. Plus if ammo was to instantly appear on the store shelfs in quanity there will still be people buying it by the case to make sure they won't ever have to repeat this last 4 1/2 months. The purchasing up to this point has been mostly to replace what one is shooting. The major rush has yet to happen. The moment ammo is plentiful is the moment people buy to restock. We are talking multi case orders.

Agsalaska
April 19, 2013, 08:31 AM
I hope none of you expect ammo to ever drop back down to 2012 pricing again. I would be very surprised if that happens.

Walkalong
April 19, 2013, 08:34 AM
Considering we have already seen a bit of easing up in the trend, I would suspect some of the "OMG I may not be able to get it later" buying will surely stop and help things catch up even more. It certainly can't hurt.

PRM
April 19, 2013, 08:44 AM
I figure time will correct it more than anything. Obama and his anti-crowd are not relenting so, its probably still going to go on for awhile. Folks will eventually buy what they feel they need and things will go back to normal.

My biggest surprise was how fast the .22LR dried up. I plan on picking up a few bricks at some point when things go back to normal, just because I like to shoot and don't want to get caught short again.

Batty67
April 19, 2013, 11:05 AM
First there is no ammo anywhere, then it become available on gunbroker and other auction/local forums by flippers and those seeking to cash out on their stocks (at carzy prices), then it sporadically available online but at outrageous prices and at many LGSs, then it becomes widely available online and still outrageous prices, and then prices start coming down and reasonably priced ammo becomes more available if you time it right. I think we're at this point right now.

In the near future:
Outrageosly priced ammo will not move and prices will lower, as reasonably priced ammo (online in LGSs/big box stores) will become somewhat available, flippers will realize that the party is over and those prices will lower and flippers might keep their "stock." The then ammo becomes close to widely available, but at 25% or so higher than what it used to be (the new "normal"). Strangely enough, 22LR will take the longest to normalize.

All IMHO.

tonkamog
April 19, 2013, 11:13 AM
There are new suppliers coming on line. The last gun show here had 4 commercial reloaders vs the normal 2.

dirtykid
April 19, 2013, 11:22 AM
I sure hope it does ,
I still watch Gunbroker, mostly for entertainment purposes,

However even last night I watched 18-bidders run a 1# container of Varget all the way up to $63 + $12 freight, ,, Soooo $75 a POUND ??????

I just picked up an extra pound at LGS for $25.99 last weekend, just because he had it.

Maybe the spotty-availability has some parts of the country more panicked than others ?

Pilot
April 19, 2013, 11:43 AM
At some point people will get tired of having so much money tied up in ammo. Remember, there is a carrying cost to having any commodity, as you are losing the opportunity cost of those dollars that can be used elsewhere. When people need the money they will stop buying all that ammo, and use it for something else.

I believe the panic will end for now, but we can not stop our vigilance as our 2A rights are always under assault.

Blackhawk30
April 19, 2013, 11:53 AM
I hope none of you expect ammo to ever drop back down to 2012 pricing again. I would be very surprised if that happens.

I would like to see ammo go back to 2005 levels.It would be nice if the facebook crowd would wake up to reality.Wholesale ammo prices have stayed basically the same.
The facebook crowd may have caused a permanent rise in ammo prices.I wonder if they realize what they have done to them selves?

larryh1108
April 19, 2013, 09:37 PM
I wonder if they realize what they have done to them selves?

They don't realize what they've done because these inflated prices are the "normal" to them. When prices drop to the new, higher level they will be so happy that they'll wet their pants. I see a 15% increase in the norm just from the Wally World and Big Box store price tags on the shelf and when they do have a handful.

Queen_of_Thunder
April 20, 2013, 09:34 AM
There were over 40 people in line when my Academy opened up Friday morning and thats not counting those showing up right at opening time which normally adds another 20 people to those in line. Within 15 minutes whatever ammo they received is gone. Are things getting better,no. Its not better. I'm seeing less 223/556 now then in Jan., Feb., or March. Calibers such as 38 special, 357magnum and 380 don't exist in my area. If you are looking for 45lc you can forget it. You are much more likely to find a live unicorn with wings than 45lc,38spec or 357mag.

bri
April 20, 2013, 08:58 PM
There were over 40 people in line when my Academy opened up Friday morning and thats not counting those showing up right at opening time which normally adds another 20 people to those in line. Within 15 minutes whatever ammo they received is gone.

I would venture to guess that a good amount of those in line were flippers, a large part of the problem.

Are things getting better,no. Its not better. I'm seeing less 223/556 now then in Jan., Feb., or March. Calibers such as 38 special, 357magnum and 380 don't exist in my area. If you are looking for 45lc you can forget it. You are much more likely to find a live unicorn with wings than 45lc,38spec or 357mag.

Just because things are not showing in your area doesn't mean supplies aren't increasing elsewhere. I see more and more ammunition every week. I see more and more posts saying the same. I also usually see you posting in those threads telling everyone that nothing is getting better and the worse is yet to come.

My conclusion is that you're flipping ammunition and you keep up this diatribe to justify your actions. Am I wrong? Possibly in your case, but I believe I'm correct for many others.

huskybiker
April 20, 2013, 09:06 PM
I figure as long as I continue to shoot, I'm going to need ammo. Before the current shortage, if I was in Wal-mart (or anywhere else) and saw a good deal on ammo, I'd buy 1 or 200 rounds. If this shortage lasts long enough, I might have to cut back on my shooting, a little. Eventually, the prices will return to a reasonable level and I'll star buying, again. I don't consider what I'm doing hoarding. I just think it's good insurance against paying .50 a round to shoot 9MM.

4v50 Gary
April 20, 2013, 09:10 PM
I confess to buying one box (50) of .357 magnum. It was $29 (tax included). Still, I wish I could get more 22 LRs. Everyone needs an ammo fort and it's the cheapest way to train someone.

Queen_of_Thunder
April 21, 2013, 11:47 AM
I would venture to guess that a good amount of those in line were flippers, a large part of the problem.



Just because things are not showing in your area doesn't mean supplies aren't increasing elsewhere. I see more and more ammunition every week. I see more and more posts saying the same. I also usually see you posting in those threads telling everyone that nothing is getting better and the worse is yet to come.

My conclusion is that you're flipping ammunition and you keep up this diatribe to justify your actions. Am I wrong? Possibly in your case, but I believe I'm correct for many others.
Those in line are shooters. Its a bit diffcult to flip one box of ammo which is all Academy allows. One box each in a max of 3 calibers per day per person. Hard to flip ammo with these restrictions.

Also there were times when I thought things were getting better like 2 months ago. I was first in line and picked up a 1,000 round case of Federal 223, a 1,000 round case of UMC 9mm and a 500 round case of UMC 45ACP. Was feeling good but Academy's next delivery was sparse. Nothing to indicate things were better. Things will be better when deliverys are no longer sporadic in nature. As it stands today there are days when you think the shortage is over as long as you are not at the back of the line and days like last Friday when I spent 2 hours in line but the 45acp I wanted to buy wasn't there.


As for flipping you got me. On Monday I bought a 1,000 round box of 9mm @$239.99 plus tax. On Wednesday a friend who showed up in hopes of getting some 9mm was only able to purchase a box of PD ammo. Paid over a dollar a round for it. As we talked I told him I could hook him up with some. So Friday we met and I sold him the 1,000 round case of 9mm for $278.00 and sold an additional 250 round box at cost. Made a huge $20 on 1250 rounds of 9mm. Now I'm short 1250 rounds that I need to replace but he and his shooting partner can get to the range now for a little fun time.

Yep I'm guilty as charged for the crime of flipping ammo. Guess what? I'll do it again. For you though I'll let you have some for $2.50 a round plus shipping costs of $17.58 per ounce.

$$Midge$$
April 21, 2013, 12:07 PM
NO; Not until everybody that didn't keep a huge store of ammo has fully stocked up on everything they ever thought they would need or we get rid of the present political ideology that is generating the shortage, this is going to continue forever. Many who would never have purchased large quantities are now hell bent on storing up buckets full. This is what happens when tyranny comes a knockin. Remember that every action is met with an equal and opposite reaction.

Queen_of_Thunder
April 21, 2013, 12:29 PM
Just so the rest of you know I spend a lot of time at the range. My local outdoor range has a clubhouse,proshop,bar,kitchen,TV and Wi-Fi. If I could move in I would. It would save on gas.

I really got caught short in December. I had expected some disruptions but not on this scale. No Ammo now for 4 1/2 months except for sparse sporadic deliverys to the big box retailers. I should have known better but frankly it never crossed my mind that things would get this bad. As a result I'm in full horde mode and thats why I stand in line when I can to get what I can. I also made the mistake of expanding my caliber footprint and adding a mid week 22lr rifle match which I'll start next month when the gun comes off layaway. Lessons Learned.

David E
April 21, 2013, 12:56 PM
I hope none of you expect ammo to ever drop back down to 2012 pricing again. I would be very surprised if that happens.

Of course I hope it will. Why wouldn't anyone want the prices to come back down to 2012 levels?

This is different than expecting they will, but I don't expect them to be much more than what they were in 2012. Once things stabilize, then the usual culprits of higher prices will be to blame.

dickydalton
April 21, 2013, 12:58 PM
The Senate vote was far from the end of this. Watch for Obama to spring a few Executive Orders on us next.:fire:

Sam1911
April 21, 2013, 02:46 PM
The Senate vote was far from the end of this. Watch for Obama to spring a few Executive Orders on us next.:fire:
We went through this in another thread. The e.o.s that Biden promised turned out to be just the list Obama announced back in January. There aren't any other e.o.s waiting in the wings.

larryh1108
April 21, 2013, 02:59 PM
There aren't any other e.o.s waiting in the wings.

Well, maybe there are none waiting in the wings... yet!
Do you really think he isn't going to "punish" us for lying to the lawmakers and defeating his bills? Seriously? He will come down with specific E.O.s that he has kept under wraps so we wouldn't get all 'up in arms' before his bill passed. Now he'll take off his gloves.

I respect your views and your knowlege but do not think, for one minute, that he will not try to stomp on us now that his bill has failed. If he can do it, he will do it. He is that much of a sore loser and power monger. Just because he didn't list it before, he was playing nice back then. Now he won't play nice. He is pizzed.

David E
April 21, 2013, 06:45 PM
There aren't any other e.o.s waiting in the wings.

With all due respect, unless you're prescient, in obamas inner circle or inside his head, you have no idea what he will or will not do or what he has waiting in the wings.

Even if nothing exists yet, it's a simple matter to create something pretty quick.

We can look at his past actions and statements and present state of mind to determine where he might go.....and it's not good.

Sam1911
April 21, 2013, 07:50 PM
Ok, fair enough. However I DO know what Biden said last week and then how the White House responded. And THE W.H. said that they didn't have anything else beyond the executive actions proposed back in January.

If they're admitting to their own people that they've reached the bottom of the barrel, I'll take that as the way it is.

larryh1108
April 21, 2013, 08:06 PM
Interesting write up on Executive orders past and present. Link to article at the end.

But, experts say, Obama’s actions are more noticeable because as a candidate he was critical of Bush’s use of power. In particular, he singled out his predecessor’s use of signing statements, documents issued when a president signs a bill that clarifies his understanding of the law.

“These last few years we’ve seen an unacceptable abuse of power at home,” Obama said in an October 2007 speech.. “We’ve paid a heavy price for having a president whose priority is expanding his own power.”

Yet Obama’s use of power echoes that of his predecessors. For example, he signed 145 executive orders in his first term, putting him on track to issue as many as the 291 that Bush did in two terms.

John Yoo, who wrote the legal opinions that supported an expansion of presidential power after the 2001 terrorist attacks, including harsh interrogation methods that some called torture, said he thought that executive orders were sometimes appropriate – when conducting internal management and implementing power given to the president by Congress or the Constitution – but he thinks that Obama has gone too far.

“I think President Obama has been as equally aggressive as President Bush, and in fact he has sometimes used the very same language to suggest that he would not obey congressional laws that intrude on his commander-in-chief power,” said Yoo, who’s now a law professor at the University of California at Berkeley. “This is utterly hypocritical, both when compared to his campaign stances and the position of his supporters in Congress, who have suddenly discovered the virtues of silence.”

Link:
http://www.mcclatchydc.com/2013/03/19/186309/obama-turning-to-executive-power.html

Read more here: http://www.mcclatchydc.com/2013/03/19/186309/obama-turning-to-executive-power.html#storylink=cpy

bri
April 21, 2013, 08:52 PM
...Yep I'm guilty as charged for the crime of flipping ammo. Guess what? I'll do it again.

At least you can admit that you're part of the problem, kudos.

For you though I'll let you have some for $2.50 a round plus shipping costs of $17.58 per ounce.

Thanks, but I'm able to find what I need locally... All without pissing away my morning standing in some line.

Queen_of_Thunder
April 21, 2013, 09:12 PM
At least you can admit that you're part of the problem, kudos.



Thanks, but I'm able to find what I need locally... All without pissing away my morning standing in some line.
Actually I was being facetious because if I really posted what I thought I'd end up getting banned.

larryh1108
April 21, 2013, 09:19 PM
Well, Queen, it sounds like you helped a fellow shooter. The $20 is peanuts when you figure your time and gas for your trip. A true hoarder and flipper would have jacked up the price double and buy/sell as much as he can get. You helped a fellow shooter and left yourself short. You are the type of shooter I'd be proud to know personally.

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