Senator to propose bill regulating black powder in wake of Boston Massacre


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Arbo
April 18, 2013, 11:44 PM
http://www.examiner.com/article/senator-to-propose-bill-regulating-black-power-wake-of-boston-massacre

On April 17, New Jersey Senator Frank Lautenberg issued a statement to the public that he intends to propose a bill or amendment to regulate black powder, and other forms of explosive components, in the wake of the Boston Marathon Massacre. The bill would demand full Federal background checks of anyone seeking to purchase the minor explosive, similar to recent attempts by Congress to require full background checks on the sale of firearms.

Saw this coming...

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berettaprofessor
April 18, 2013, 11:49 PM
That didn't take long. Isn't Lautenberg on his deathbed?

r1derbike
April 18, 2013, 11:58 PM
Never let a terrible tragedy go to waste. That is an unacceptable political ploy, a despicable, opportunistic sham.

Politicians will stoop to new lows, to advance their personal agendas, or political careers at the expense of the victims, families, and the injured at these horrific atrocities.

This makes me sick to my stomach.

Midwest
April 19, 2013, 12:01 AM
Given the insanity of the proposed draconian gun bills in California, and this latest questionable 'proposal'. I'm surprised that no one has started a separate movement against nanny politicians and nanny laws. I think a separate movement would have broad appeal, I think the public is tired of it...and not just the pro-gun community.

Bloomberg and his soda ban, now we have Peter King's latest addition to the list of questionable proposals this time with having people reported for buying ball bearings and nails .

http://cnsnews.com/news/article/rep-pete-king-merchants-selling-ball-bearings-beauty-products-should-notify-police

""Anyone seeing anyone buying components, any type of BBs or ball bearings -- a large amount of nails, even -- report that to police," he said."

I wonder why no one has suggested that politicians go through some sort of mental background checks. I'll bet some of them won't pass. Now 'Joe Six Pack' building a dog house in the backyard, or building an addition to his house could be deemed suspicious because he bought a box of nails.

Good Lord man

Onward Allusion
April 19, 2013, 12:06 AM
I am surprised that it wasn't proposed earlier.

vamo
April 19, 2013, 12:12 AM
Since ammunition contains powder would this effectively make all ammo purchase require a background check?

The quote in the link just says explosive powder and does not specify quantity.

HOWARD J
April 19, 2013, 12:24 AM
These sub-humans are poor losers--they will continue to do anything to attack gun owners----you can bet lead will be next

Arbo
April 19, 2013, 12:27 AM
These sub-humans are poor losers--they will continue to do anything to attack gun owners----you can bet lead will be next
Well, lead is poison, and we don't want children to get poisoned. ;)

Coop45
April 19, 2013, 12:28 AM
What a moron! We need to vote these bums out of office asap!

TheSaint
April 19, 2013, 12:28 AM
I knew this was going to happen as soon as the media reported that black powder was used in the Boston bombings. Once again, demonize the gun powder, but not the pressure cooker! This loon needs to be voted out of office and if this bill reaches a vote, soundly defeated. The defense of liberty must never rest.

vtail
April 19, 2013, 12:37 AM
Since ammunition contains powder would this effectively make all ammo purchase require a background check?

The quote in the link just says explosive powder and does not specify quantity.
Big difference in smokeless powder in cartridges and black powder.

I'm actually surprised this hasn't happened years ago.

CZguy
April 19, 2013, 12:41 AM
The "common sense" approach would be, to ban pressure cookers and back packs.


If just one child's life is saved, it would be worth it.

vamo
April 19, 2013, 12:46 AM
Big difference in smokeless powder in cartridges and black powder.

I'm actually surprised this hasn't happened years ago.

I realize there's a big difference but I would doubt smokeless would be exempt seems one could hit up a reloading shop and make just as deadly if not more deadly a device as the one we saw Tuesday with smokeless. And on that note if you're determined enough and have the cash you can get out the smokeless you want from commercial ammo.

SuperNaut
April 19, 2013, 12:50 AM
Can't these idiots do anything other than propose bans?!?

Zoogster
April 19, 2013, 12:56 AM
If they allow restrictions on black powder then smokeless will likely be included, or they will close the smokeless loophole shortly after.


Such a restriction would just become a monetary issue as anyone could pull bullets and collect powder from a case of ammo and have lots of powder.


Black powder can also be made quite easily.


Lautenberg just won't let an opportunity pass him by to find some way to further restrict arms.

Texan Scott
April 19, 2013, 01:04 AM
As the husband of a woman with a thing for rose bushes, and a man with a working knowledge of exothermic chemistry, I can assure you that everything needed to make black powder (or ammonal, or thermite, or highly reactive metal oxide primers, for that matter) is available on the internet or your local Tractor Supply Company/ Quality Farm and Fleet.

Knowledge is a truly dangerous thing... they really should consider regulation of University sciences curricula.

csspecs
April 19, 2013, 01:13 AM
There are a startlingly large number of items that contain explosives.

Fireworks, flares, ramset charges.

Most meth labs accidentally produce high powered and unstable explosives as a byproduct of illegal drug production... I'd imagine a meth cook has few moral issues with selling unstable explosives to criminals.

InkEd
April 19, 2013, 01:23 AM
There is NO WAY that politicians will EVER be able to stop people from making bombs!

Why? Because the would have to regulate horse "crap" and there is no way they would restrict something that they are so full of...

Onward Allusion
April 19, 2013, 01:29 AM
Knowledge is a truly dangerous thing... they really should consider regulation of University sciences curricula.

They already did that, silly!!! It was called the Chinese Cultural Revolution and only cost an estimated 60 to 80 million..........people's lives, that is....

Foto Joe
April 19, 2013, 09:20 AM
Here we go folks.....

I guess it's time to call Powder Inc.

http://www.examiner.com/article/senator-to-propose-bill-regulating-black-power-wake-of-boston-massacre

Sam1911
April 19, 2013, 09:43 AM
Lautenberg is proposing this? How very unexpected! :rolleyes:

Of course, the article's author doesn't know the difference between black and smokeless powder...

0% chance this bill goes anywhere.

Foto Joe
April 19, 2013, 09:53 AM
0% of going anywhere is undoubtedly correct but....

I get on the computer this morning and they're trying to track down the Boston Marathon bomber and the rhetoric is just POURING out of some of the media outlets. Including one idiot on MSNBC that states on camera that the NRA is responsible for the bombings because they opposed including tagants in powder for tracking and identification purposes!!!

I've got to close this computer and go do something else before I blow an artery.

kbbailey
April 19, 2013, 09:56 AM
My club is currently putting together an order for members. We feel that 'real black powder'(explosive) will become more difficult to obtain.

Carl N. Brown
April 19, 2013, 10:07 AM
The reports this morning is that the perps were two Chechan fanatics in their twenties. The gun fight they had in Boston leads people to speculate they have military or paramilitary training.

Yeah, when I saw the explosions on TV, I thought white smoke = commercial explosives (black powder, smokeless, nitroglycerine-based dynamite) and not = military explosives (TNT, RDX, C4). However, some of those Anararchist Cookbook formulas generate white smoke.

Lautenberg is offering a solution to a problem of his own imagination. We don't need to focus on millions of legitimate users of commercial explosives: we need to focus on terrorists.

Now it's Kurdistan and Russia.

rdhood
April 19, 2013, 10:37 AM
""Anyone seeing anyone buying components, any type of BBs or ball bearings -- a large amount of nails, even -- report that to police," he said."


What a crock. Home Depot sells nails by the 5lb/50lb container. What, do they think everyone buys a pound of nails at a time, when the cost to do so is more than twice as much per pound as a 5lb container? A NORMAL 50lb container would have been more than enough to make two of these bombs.

vtail
April 19, 2013, 10:43 AM
Waiting for a "news" story where they follow a reporter to buy a pressure cooker, black powder, nails, and a remote controlled toy to show how "easy" it is to assemble "bomb components".

Then they will scream out "Walmart sells everything you need to build a bomb!!"

mykeal
April 19, 2013, 10:49 AM
So now we're going to see shortages and price gouging of black powder as the 'cats start stockpiling in fear of a crackpot Senator's knee palsy.

Paladin7
April 19, 2013, 11:05 AM
Well I have been making calls to all my elected officials to stress the importance of banning Pressure Cookers.

After all NO ONE "NEEDS" a Pressure Cooker. We have ovens, stovetops, microwaves, fire pits, etc. to cook our food. Pressure Cookers are dangerous because they cook under "PRESSURE." They can and have blown up on their own, esp. when the pressure release valve gets clogged with pea soup or whatever else can be cooked in them.... hey, maybe they should ban pea soup as well....good idea.....have to remember that.

Anyway, I'm dead nuts serious about this and putting the pressure (no pun intended) on my elected officials and their 14 year old staffers on this issue and suggest you do the same.

Come on people....! If we can save only 1 child it will be worth it....

Actually, I have been making these calls... call it catharsis...

Carl N. Brown
April 19, 2013, 11:06 AM
"Anyone seeing anyone buying components, any type of BBs or ball bearings -- a large amount of nails, even -- report that to police," he said.

My neighbor is finally building a house on the lot that stood vacant next to mine for years and he has lotsa nails (I have watched him erecting the framing for the walls and roof).

Should I report him? Naw.

Ball bearings, though, I don't know too many people who buy ball bearings with a legitimate need, they must be doubleplusungood enemies of the state. Didn't we bomb Nazi ball bearing plants in WWII? By Godwin's law, they must be bad people. Yeah, I'll rat them out.

Claude Clay
April 19, 2013, 11:07 AM
and after that law does not prevent the next event he will want
see through back-packs; will that be clear plastic or mesh, sir?

BBQJOE
April 19, 2013, 11:43 AM
It's a good thing the bomber didn't use gas. We'd all be traveling by foot, bike, or horse real soon.
Mandatory background checks when filling up your car.

Oklacoyotekiller
April 19, 2013, 12:19 PM
Not everyone. Just grandmas, little kids, and other us citizens. Lord knows we dont want to profile muslims. Probly post tsa agents at lowes and home depot.

mugsie
April 19, 2013, 12:28 PM
Black powder on its own will only burn - it must be confined in order to explode. I'm sure some liberal politician will soon propose a bill to regulate all pressure cookers. Anyone owning a pressure cooker has 10 days to get it registered or face stiff fines and possibly incarceration. Pressure cookers sold from this day forward can only have a capacity or 6 ounces and you must pass a national background check, and anything capable of holding more than 6 oz. must be turned in. There will also be no transportation of pressure cookers across state lines either.

Just wait - you think I jest? Just wait.....
:)

Akita1
April 19, 2013, 12:32 PM
Please don't tell me people are going to start talking about taggants again...

http://www.nap.edu/openbook.php?record_id=5755&page=1

pohill
April 19, 2013, 12:53 PM
Don't you think it's kinda early, and somewhat insensitive, to worry about buying powder and other components while this event is happening? At this moment, there's a madman running around Massachusetts who has killed innocent people - some of the wounded are from my town. This killer could theoretically be at my door at any time. With that in mind, I can tell you without doubt that there are many anti-gunners here in MA who wished they had a gun at this moment. I saw it during the 911 attacks - my neighbor, an anti, came to me saying he wanted a gun and he didn't care how he got it. When people are afraid as they are here now, they do turn to guns.
Chances are that there will be those who will try to restrict us further in the near future, but events like what's happening RIGHT NOW will open the minds of many.

Sam1911
April 19, 2013, 01:02 PM
Don't you think it's kinda early, and somewhat insensitive, to worry about buying powder and other components while this event is happening?Not really.

Remember, as distasteful as it might be to turn OUR minds to protecting our rights in this moment of grief and distress -- our own real and present enemies have ALREADY turned their minds to using this crime as a tool to further break down our rights.

THEY never sleep, they never stop and they have NO shame. So we can't allow ourselves the luxury of backing off, even if we're holding back tears.

pohill
April 19, 2013, 01:10 PM
I say it's pretty insensitive at this moment - did you worry about future airport searches and checks during the 911 attacks? We're under attack at this moment, and it's not from our politicians. That fight will come later, for sure.
But remember what I said - there are people right now, anti-gunners, huddled behind their doors, wishing they had a gun.

jerkface11
April 19, 2013, 01:14 PM
It's insensitive of us to worry about them banning powder but not for them to propose the ban?

Sam1911
April 19, 2013, 01:17 PM
I say it's pretty insensitive at this momentAnd I disagree.

did you worry about future airport searches and checks during the 911 attacks?Yes. Your moment of deepest shock is the moment you're most vulnerable. If you allow yourself to be stunned into insensate inaction, you are lost.

We're under attack at this moment, and it's not from our politicians.DID YOU READ THE OPENING POST?

That fight will come later, for sure.That fight is NOW. Again, surely you must have read the opening post. The esteemed Senator from NJ has ALREADY launched his attack.

Please, I know you're hurting, but you've got to stand up and fight. This is not the time to lie on your face and indulge your sadness. A period of quiet grieving is not a luxury we have right now. If we do not fight, we'll be crushed.

But remember what I said - there are people right now, anti-gunners, huddled behind their doors, wishing they had a gun.Right. And we may pray that the terrible memory of that feeling haunts their days and nights until they join us and fight for their rights to defend themselves!

Queen_of_Thunder
April 19, 2013, 01:17 PM
Waiting for a "news" story where they follow a reporter to buy a pressure cooker, black powder, nails, and a remote controlled toy to show how "easy" it is to assemble "bomb components".

Then they will scream out "Walmart sells everything you need to build a bomb!!"


Well they do, not to mention materils that anyone with a bit of chemistry knowledge can put together causing more damage then these devices.

Derek Zeanah
April 19, 2013, 01:24 PM
Here's the thing that I think we should have learned over the last four months: those that oppose civilian ownership of firearms are working on damn-near immediate responses to tragedies that can be tied to firearm ownership.

The goal is to pass oppressive legislation while emotions are still running hot. If this was another mall shooting I think we'd be looking at an attempt to pass "emergency legislation" AWB-style legislation before we even knew what sort of firearm had been used.

It's no longer about good taste. It's about amplifying the emotional response of the public to try and squeeze anti-gun legislation through congress. If we decline to speak out in the name of proper decorum, then the antis will be unopposed.

Now, we all know that a pressure cooker bomb doesn't care what you use inside it. It'll hold the pressure until that pressure exceeds its capacity, then it'll pop. Propellants work (including improvised sorts.) Water and a camp stove will work. Dry ice and a hot day will work, maybe with a can of Sterno underneath it for insurance. They'll all produce an approximately equivalent explosion.

Gunpowder legislation will do nothing to prevent this same kind of attack in the future. The question is whether they can generate enough emotion to pass some kind of legislation, because "we owe it to the victims" apparently.

pohill
April 19, 2013, 01:26 PM
Proposing a ban at this moment is not insensitive, it's ignorant, moronic, etc. We know that. My point is that this event will open the minds of people to the fact that laws and bans cannot protect us from bad guys. If "they" want to kill us, they will find ways. I am not lying on my face and indulging sadness - I'm hoping the SOB will knock on my door. We should be careful not to fall into the "woe is me" mindset at this time, for they will use that against us later.

Cosmoline
April 19, 2013, 01:37 PM
Don't you think it's kinda early, and somewhat insensitive, to worry about buying powder and other components while this event is happening?

Frank doesn't think so.

Sam1911
April 19, 2013, 01:40 PM
Frank doesn't think so.Heck, Frank's dying of stomach cancer. If he can fight through that to try and push his agenda, surely we can fight just as hard even if doing so is distasteful.

swalton1943
April 19, 2013, 01:44 PM
did anyone notice what happened to the fertilizer plant in Texas? guess what exploded? fertilizer; main component of commercial explosives.

pohill
April 19, 2013, 01:49 PM
If you were here, right now, behind a locked door with a liberal anti-gunner, and you asked them if they wanted a gun, they'd take it eagerly, or be glad for the one you had in your hand (the ones I know at least). But, if you complained about potential future bans on black powder (or whatever), you'd be called an <deleted>.
The fact that, right now, the government is telling people to stay indoors, lock their doors, don't open the door for anyone but a uniformed officer, will make many people think about who is responsible for their safety. I guess you could say that I'm being pretty insensitive in my statements but handing someone a gun for protection right now might make them see the truth about self defense.

Onward Allusion
April 19, 2013, 01:56 PM
pohill
I say it's pretty insensitive at this moment - did you worry about future airport searches and checks during the 911 attacks? We're under attack at this moment, and it's not from our politicians. That fight will come later, for sure.
But remember what I said - there are people right now, anti-gunners, huddled behind their doors, wishing they had a gun.

No. Not insensitive at all. Not when we have people like Rahm saying “You don’t ever want a crisis to go to waste;"

We know better now than we did back in '01.

huntsman
April 19, 2013, 02:07 PM
I thought BP was already controlled, It's been years since I bought a can of 2F but I remember it was hard to get and I had to sign for it.

Smokeless powder is what I figured they'd go after, they can't have folks making their own ammo while they try to control ammo sales.

tarosean
April 19, 2013, 02:16 PM
Has the chemical composition even been published yet?

scythefwd
April 19, 2013, 02:17 PM
Since ammunition contains powder would this effectively make all ammo purchase require a background check?

The quote in the link just says explosive powder and does not specify quantity.


BP is classified as an explosive legally, smokeless isnt.

razorback2003
April 19, 2013, 04:58 PM
How about concentrate on keeping foreigners from countries/regions that hate us out of our country and leave our rights alone? These dudes should have never even been given a green card to enter the USA 10 years ago and never given citizenship.

PRM
April 19, 2013, 08:39 PM
NUTTS!!!

This should send one clear message, all gun owners are in this together.

Not interested in ARs because all you shoot are muzzle loaders. Think again, they want it all.

__________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________
(deleted)

Foto Joe
April 19, 2013, 08:51 PM
The idiot on MSNBC this morning that blamed the NRA for the bombing almost caused me to punch my computer screen. Thankfully my wife advised that I just close the laptop before I had to make a trip to Best Buy to replace it prematurely.

X-Rap
April 19, 2013, 09:05 PM
For those of you who might have thought reloading componants might get easier to find.
I doubt it, thank Frank and pay attention to which party these common sense bills come from.

Texan Scott
April 19, 2013, 09:18 PM
Seems to me that using unrest in Boston to justify clamping down on musket powder has been tried already... :rolleyes:

Derry 1946
April 19, 2013, 09:31 PM
Here we go folks.....

I guess it's time to call Powder Inc.

http://www.examiner.com/article/senator-to-propose-bill-regulating-black-power-wake-of-boston-massacre

Look again. He's proposing to ban black power. Oh, wait, that's just a typo in the link, right?

RetiredUSNChief
April 19, 2013, 09:37 PM
What a crock. Home Depot sells nails by the 5lb/50lb container. What, do they think everyone buys a pound of nails at a time, when the cost to do so is more than twice as much per pound as a 5lb container? A NORMAL 50lb container would have been more than enough to make two of these bombs.

And don't forget that BB's are sold in 5,000 round containers, or even larger.

I can see it now...BB's will be sold in 10-packs in the future, in keeping with the magic number "10" that gun control fanatics seem to love so much...

:rolleyes:

barnbwt
April 19, 2013, 10:57 PM
On the anniversary of the conflagration of our conflict with Britain --which was sparked by "powder raids"-- these idiots strive to ban/sieze/restrict black powder --in the name of a "Boston Massacre?!"

History's repeating all over the place, it seems...someone remind the good senator what happened the last two times citizens in this country were told to throw down their weapons and ammunition for their own good :banghead:

TCB

OilyPablo
April 19, 2013, 11:06 PM
Seems to me that using unrest in Boston to justify clamping down on musket powder has been tried already..

Truth.

Weird. You mention muslim control and the people coming up with these bills become unhinged. Not proposing ANY (more) restrictions on rights, just making an observation.

Hacker15E
April 20, 2013, 08:04 AM
Maybe this type of thing will get the fudds to wake up to the fact that we're all in it together.

alsaqr
April 20, 2013, 12:40 PM
Has any representative of the FBI or BATFE stated that blackpowder was used in those bombs? i have not seen that.

One federal law enforcement source told CNN's Deborah Feyerick the devices contained "low-velocity improvised explosive mixture -- perhaps flash-powder or sugar chlorate mixture likely packed with nails or shrapnel."


http://www.cnn.com/2013/04/16/us/boston-marathon-lone-wolf

tarosean
April 20, 2013, 12:49 PM
^ hmmmm following their logic. My kids will need to pass a 4473 to buy fireworks now...

gdcpony
April 20, 2013, 04:33 PM
http://www.lautenberg.senate.gov/newsroom/record.cfm?id=341435&

Lautenberg will introduce the “Explosive Materials Background Check Act,” which will:

· Require a background check to purchase black powder, black powder substitute, smokeless powder, or any other explosive, in any quantity;

· Provide the Attorney General with the authority to stop the sale of explosives when a background check reveals that the applicant is a known or suspected terrorist and the Attorney General reasonably believes that the person may use the explosives in connection with terrorism; and

· Make it illegal to manufacture homemade explosives without a permit.

Need I say more? As a reloader this will hit me harder than anything else they have introduced, but I am also looking at how this will affect muzzleloading, and ammo manufacturing as well.

Needless to say I will be sending letters again!

joeschmoe
April 20, 2013, 05:00 PM
We use "propellents", not explosive powders. I guess he needs a high school student to explain the difference to him.

No chance on it own. Could get tagged on as an amendment in a future gun grab though. I wouldn't worry about it too much right now.

firesky101
April 20, 2013, 05:06 PM
joeschmoe nailed it. But then again this is from the people that brought you such gems as "the shoulder thing that goes up", and of course the constant misuse of "assault rifle".

Calibre44
April 20, 2013, 05:10 PM
I have to have a license the purchase and store black powder over here (not smokeless though) ... the irony is that you can purchase any amount of fireworks without anyone caring and store them wherever you like. But no one said gun (explosive) control made any real sense.

monotonous_iterancy
April 20, 2013, 05:12 PM
You'd think that most anti-gun people would see this as an infringement, wouldn't you? After all, don't they say that the 2nd Amendment only protects the types of firearms that existed when it was written?

joeschmoe
April 20, 2013, 05:16 PM
BTW, gasoline is an explosive.

browneu
April 20, 2013, 05:19 PM
Those that reload. Stay vigilant as Lautenburh would like to regulate gunpowder. The legislation would require a background check for the purchase of powder. He's using the incident in Boston as reason for the legislation.

http://gunssavelives.net/blog/gun-laws/breaking-senator-lautenberg-introduces-legislation-to-regulate-gunpowder/

Sent from my SGH-T999 using Tapatalk 2

Texan Scott
April 20, 2013, 05:22 PM
Don't ASSUME this bill will be seen as ludicrous and will therefore be a non-starter.

TELL your Senators WHY this is ludicrous. MAKE it a non-starter.

Letters and phone calls, y'all ... show the antis that we have not gotten smug or complacent; we will not roll over and quietly go back to sleep. Hound statist imbeciles like this to the ground.

Some public "servants" need to be reminded to stay in their place. Those that WON'T need to realize their greatest fear- coming to the end of their careers in FAILURE.

I personally am way beyond tired of these people. I'm angry, and I'm not alone in this.

Let them hear it. The answer is NO.

gdcpony
April 20, 2013, 05:31 PM
Don't ASSUME this bill will be seen as ludicrous and will therefore be a non-starter.

TELL your Senators WHY this is ludicrous. MAKE it a non-starter.

Letters and phone calls, y'all ... show the antis that we have not gotten smug or complacent; we will not roll over and quietly go back to sleep. Hound statist imbeciles like this to the ground.

Some public "servants" need to be reminded to stay in their place. Those that WON'T need to realize their greatest fear- coming to the end of their careers in FAILURE.

I personally am way beyond tired of these people. I'm angry, and I'm not alone in this.

Let them hear it. The answer is NO.
My opinion also.

wojownik
April 20, 2013, 05:35 PM
"any other explosive, in any quantity" ... an explosive is a reactive substance that contains a great amount of potential energy. Such as ... propane, butane, gasoline, or even hydrogen peroxide? Wow, I guess I'd need a background check evertime I need a refill for my barbeque, camping stove, car, and medicine cabinet.

hso
April 20, 2013, 05:44 PM
Neither gasoline nor smokeless powder are explosives. Black powder, OTOH, is a Division 1.1 explosive.

Of course, Lautenberg could be a moron OR he could be trying to sneak a sucker punch through on us using the momentum of the Boston Marathon Bombings.

goon
April 20, 2013, 06:59 PM
Any legislation can't stop you from making BP or even something a lot more powerful.
Knowledge is the key. BP has been made for centuries and it works the same now as it did then. You can't stop a determined person from learning how to make it and obtaining the ingredients. It's an even more impossible thing to try to regulate than guns, which at least require some mechanical skills and pretty good tools to make.
For shrapnel, they should just consider themselves lucky that new bolts and ball bearings were used rather than old, rusty, tetanus laced bolts from a junkyard.
Why bother regulating the purchase of nails when someone could and would just use a handful of coarse gravel on the next attack? Passing legislation in a panic won't prevent anything.

I understand the desire to try to prevent such attacks and I share it, but I don't think it's possible.

9w1911
April 20, 2013, 06:59 PM
well I find it hilarious considering I can produce as much plack powder as I want, all we have to do is make it.
What is total BS is using these events to trigger new legislation ,

steelerdude99
April 20, 2013, 07:51 PM
http://www.lautenberg.senate.gov/newsroom/record.cfm?id=341435&

Need I say more? As a reloader this will hit me harder than anything else they have introduced, but I am also looking at how this will affect muzzleloading, and ammo manufacturing as well.

...

Doesn't government at any and every level not have anything better to do? I hate the "Pass a new law after each and every already illegal event" mentality. The Boston Marathon acts were already illegal as they resulted in intentional deaths. The Newtown actions were already illegal as well. Does a new law help by making it "more illegal"? It is not like they would have trouble finding some law to charge the perpetrators with (should they live). If they want something to act on, try limiting the conditions in which a person can claim "not guilty by reason of insanity".

Plus more specific to Boston, black powder can be made at home (the most difficult ingredient to find being saltpeter).

chuck

wojownik
April 20, 2013, 08:29 PM
Neither gasoline nor smokeless powder are explosives. Black powder, OTOH, is a Division 1.1 explosive.

I was being tongue in cheek, but smokeless powder does fall under Division 1.3, IIRC.

Since what I've heard of the Lautenberg proposal covers "explosive powder", ostensibly a broad usage could extend to “black powder” (1.1), “smokeless powder” (1.3) and “black powder substitute” (1.?).

dragon813gt
April 20, 2013, 08:45 PM
Read the act completely. There is a line in it about making it illegal to produce black powder yourself. Only way they would know is if the commercial makers put markers in theirs. He tires to get the same thing passed in 2003.


Brought to you by TapaTalk

Deaf Smith
April 20, 2013, 08:46 PM
The Democrats are stuck on stupid.

Black power is a combination of Potassium Nitrate, Sulfur, and Charcoal is specific percentage.

Proportions by weight are 75% potassium nitrate (known as saltpeter or saltpetre), 15% softwood charcoal, and 10% sulfur.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gunpowder

Just ground up in a non-sparking container (for obvious reasons.)

Anyone can make it. The stupid Democrats are just in gun control mode and they feel just some kind of legislation, no matter how inane, will show they 'care'.

For them, the idea of registering pressure cookers also sounds like 'common sense' legislation.

Deaf

wally
April 20, 2013, 08:56 PM
For them, the idea of registering pressure cookers also sounds like 'common sense' legislation.

Would be at least as effective!

The one who was a naturalized citizen would likely have passed any background checks!

Deaf Smith
April 20, 2013, 11:36 PM
Read the act completely. There is a line in it about making it illegal to produce black powder yourself. Only way they would know is if the commercial makers put markers in theirs. He tires to get the same thing passed in 2003.
It's illegal to make meth to, but they do it all the time. Illegal to print your own money, but it's done to. Illegal to make your own booze and sell it (bootlegging) but that is also done alot.

Nothing, but nothing, will stop a terrorist from making bombs. Heck the Columbine killers had propane bombs (will it be illegal to have a outdoor BBQ with propane tank to?) They only failed to make them go off due to their super ignorance. The two in Boston were not ignorant (incredibly stupid but not ignorant on how to make their bombs.)

If they want to stop such killers, deport those who they have found favor terrorist organizations (as these two did), and monitor known groups who favor them (and that means alot of Muslim groups here in the U.S.)

The FBI knew Hasan had extremist ties and he favored them. They IGNORED IT. The FBI knew these two Boston brothers had extremist ties and they favored them. The FBI IGNORED IT. Well it's time to start not ignoring them, even if they also favor Democrats (I've never seen a Democrat politician ignore votes no matter where they came from, even if they voted twice.)

Deaf

dragon813gt
April 21, 2013, 09:24 AM
It's illegal to make meth to, but they do it all the time. Illegal to print your own money, but it's done to. Illegal to make your own booze and sell it (bootlegging) but that is also done alot.



I get all that. But right now it's not illegal for me to make black powder. This act will make it illegal and turn me into a criminal if I do. I know it won't stop a criminal from making it. So all it does is restrict me more. This is one of the points you need to hammer home to your representatives.



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Foto Joe
April 21, 2013, 09:30 AM
The sad part of this whole scenario when it comes to congress is that the fools which "we the people" elect actually believe that they are doing us a favor by putting ideas like this one out there. No "Law" is going to effect what an "Outlaw" intends to do if they have enough determination. I heard one of our corrupt politicians a few weeks ago make the statement that their job was to write laws, I believe it was Pelosi. What a crock!! Their job is to serve "Us", the American citizens not pass laws which they themselves have never even read.

It saddens me to see what our country is turning into. I'm sure that Kruschev is watching from above (or below) grinning to himself at his prophecy coming to fruition.

InkEd
April 21, 2013, 09:35 AM
This one could be worse because they could amend it to include smokeless powder too. This would make it include factory ammo which contains it. They don't specify the quantity either, how much is considered a large amount?

dickydalton
April 21, 2013, 12:50 PM
In the actual legislation he's proposing they include smokeless powder also.:eek:

Carl N. Brown
April 21, 2013, 01:33 PM
I was reminded of this, this morning:
http://www.newrepublic.com/blog/plank/111266/franklin-roosevelt-the-father-gun-control#
Adam Winkler, "Franklin Roosevelt: The Father of Gun Control", The New Republic, 19 Dec 2012.

Leftie politic/social commentary magazine, "moderate" gun control writer: gun control has been an unfinished part of the FDR legacy for Democrats for almost 80 years; the push for a national Sullivan Act to tax and register guns and restrict ownership created the NRA ILA as a modern gun lobby.

The article is post Newtown, but pre the failure to pass the AWB II, big clip ban and universal BG check. I think they are getting desperate to fulfill FDR's dream.

skimbell
April 21, 2013, 06:49 PM
Can't these idiots do anything other than propose bans?!?
That's what they do. Every last one of these bogus gun grabbing schemes in the past 45 years has come from the democrats/liberals/progressives...or whatever name they're trying to hide behind now.
Bottom line, a vote for any democrat is a vote against the 2A.

gym
April 21, 2013, 07:16 PM
When do they figure out that you can't ban everything that can be used for multiple purposes. Chem bombs can do the same thing with Diesel Fuel & fertilizer, Ammonia, Drano, and on and on. Why do they always think that by banning one thing that ten minutes later someone will use something else?
Gun Powder has been here for a thousand years, and because some jerk put it in a pressure cooker, now it's dangerous? You can use a thousand different things to cause tragedy, it's education and mental health that prevent it, not trying to ban half the things that people use everyday. Anyone with a science book or an internet connection can make a damaging device.
Dynamite is available all over the country, do they really think that they can ban our way out of these events.

rodregier
April 21, 2013, 08:40 PM
FWIW, the video of at least one of the explosions had a large white cloud rising out of the explosion site. That would be consistent with black powder (as opposed to smokeless powder).

Seems like the antis are fixated on technologies as opposed to actions.

alsaqr
April 21, 2013, 09:17 PM
FWIW, the video of at least one of the explosions had a large white cloud rising out of the explosion site. That would be consistent with black powder (as opposed to smokeless powder).


The fireballs of those bombs were not the right color for black powder. The fireball color is consistent with homemade explosives containing sugar or other organic fuel, as are the clouds of white smoke. Those homemade explosives require a detonator. Blasting caps are hard to come by. The bombs may have used TATP as a detonator. TATP will detonate when exposed to heat (a light bulb filament will do it") or shock.


One federal law enforcement source told CNN's Deborah Feyerick the devices contained "low-velocity improvised explosive mixture -- perhaps flash-powder or sugar chlorate mixture likely packed with nails or shrapnel."

An explosives expert told CNN the yellowness of the flame probably came from carbon or some organic fuel such as sugar that contains it. The expert, who is frequently consulted by the FBI and other government agencies, said the white smoke made it "unlikely that a military-grade high explosive, such as those used in shells and bombs, which is usually grey or black, was used."

Caliper_RWVA
April 21, 2013, 10:58 PM
This one could be worse because they could amend it to include smokeless powder too. This would make it include factory ammo which contains it. They don't specify the quantity either, how much is considered a large amount?

Go back and read the OP. Everything I have read about this bill is that it already includes smokeless powder and both smokeless and black powder would require a BG check to buy in ANY quantity.

So, concievably, his would require BG checks to buy just one round of .22LR.

drcook
April 22, 2013, 08:16 AM
also police notification on buying nails, beauty products, ball bearings,

http://cnsnews.com/news/article/rep-pete-king-merchants-selling-ball-bearings-beauty-products-should-notify-police

the East Coast politicians, aided by the gang from Chicago and California are in full police state mode. I don't think the country is going to survive much longer.

M-Cameron
April 22, 2013, 08:53 AM
I am assuming this has been proposed because of the Boston bombings....

Even assuming the suspects used black powder in their bombs... they would have had to obtain it illegally because you need an FID card to buy/ posses black/ smokeless powder in MA.....so this law wouldn't have prevented the bombings from happening....

What a shocker I know, who would have thought that someone who is willing to bomb a city is not afraid to break the law to buy gunpowder.....

hang fire
April 23, 2013, 02:49 PM
Some politicians are now advocating for the outright ban on black powder and substitutes, others are wanting a background check for the purchase of any gun powder.

I knew the moment I saw the white smoke from the low pressure bombs, this would be forthcoming.

M-Cameron
April 23, 2013, 02:59 PM
EDIT: threads merged

Midwest
April 23, 2013, 03:00 PM
Some politicians are now advocating for the outright ban on black powder and substitutes, others are wanting a background check for the purchase of any gun powder.

I knew the moment I saw the white smoke from the low pressure bombs, this would be forthcoming.
Also Bloomberg is saying outright that the constitution will have to change as well.


"Bloomberg Says Interpretation of Constitution Will ‘Have to Change’ After Boston Bombing"

http://politicker.com/2013/04/bloomberg-says-post-boston-interpretation-of-the-constitution-will-have-to-change/

“The people who are worried about privacy have a legitimate worry,” Mr. Bloomberg said during a press conference in Midtown. “But we live in a complex word where you’re going to have to have a level of security greater than you did back in the olden days, if you will. And our laws and our interpretation of the Constitution, I think, have to change.”

He also saying about adding more cameras, then he goes on with his mantra about gun laws and saving the children. But do check out the readers comments at the end of the article.


.

Texan Scott
April 23, 2013, 03:11 PM
Good luck with that, Bloomie. Not happening here.

swalton1943
April 23, 2013, 04:35 PM
Gee, potassium nitrate 78%, charcoal 13%, sulpher 9%. Ban all that?

Bob2222
April 23, 2013, 11:43 PM
Gee, potassium nitrate 78%, charcoal 13%, sulpher 9%. Ban all that?

A black powder purist will even make his own charcoal. http://www.musketeer.ch/blackpowder/bp_menu.html This isn't brain surgery -- except to politicians.

But I imagine that even if black powder needs a FID in Massachusetts, it would have been fairly easy for the brothers Tsarnaev to drive to New Hampshire, and fill up their trunk with all the black powder that they could carry.

Lautenberg discovered he wasn't running again in 2014 when he found that Newark Mayor Cory Booker wanted the job by reading the newspapers. He will have about zero influence between now and 2014 when he's retiring. His bill is unlikely to see the light of day in the Senate, never mind in the House.

rondog
April 24, 2013, 12:33 AM
So, HAS it been stated definitively exactly WHAT explosive was used? Their crime lab should have had that ID'd within hours. You don't suppose that information is being witheld to further some agenda, hmmm? Nah, they wouldn't do that.....

And control the purchase of nails and BB's, they'll just use screws, nuts and bolts, scrap metal, small car parts....anything small and hard would work. Even garden/driveway stones.

RON in PA
April 24, 2013, 05:40 AM
On the CBS national news 4/23/13 there was a segment about the Boston terrorists, they purchased $400 of fireworks. This was probably the source of their explosives.

Shanghai McCoy
April 24, 2013, 08:37 AM
On the CBS national news 4/23/13 there was a segment about the Boston terrorists, they purchased $400 of fireworks. This was probably the source of their explosives.
They can buy fireworks in Mass..?

rdhood
April 24, 2013, 09:44 AM
On the CBS national news 4/23/13 there was a segment about the Boston terrorists, they purchased $400 of fireworks. This was probably the source of their explosives.

Woops! Missed an opportunity to grab back smokeless powder from those lunatic fringe gun fanatics.

M-Cameron
April 24, 2013, 09:48 AM
They can buy fireworks in Mass..?

Nope, they are illegal in Mass, the fireworks were purchased in NH

CoRoMo
April 24, 2013, 10:26 AM
Lock and Load Mortar kits... http://www.fireworks.com/products/item/lock-and-load-kit-g-702/

As reported... http://www.washingtonpost.com/world/national-security/boston-bombing-suspect-tamerlan-tsarnaev-bought-large-pyrotechnics-devices/2013/04/23/950478fa-ac4e-11e2-a198-99893f10d6dd_story.html

The-Reaver
April 24, 2013, 11:01 AM
Never let a good crisis go to waste - Karl Marx.....oh wait that's not right. Eric Holder....wait What? Oh, ok they both said it. Hmm.


Just picked up another can of FFF today. I shall not be caught off guard again. Up to 4 pounds. Even got a compost pile in the back. If anyone catches my drift.

jamesbeat
April 24, 2013, 01:52 PM
Also Bloomberg is saying outright that the constitution will have to change as well.


"Bloomberg Says Interpretation of Constitution Will ‘Have to Change’ After Boston Bombing"

http://politicker.com/2013/04/bloomberg-says-post-boston-interpretation-of-the-constitution-will-have-to-change/

“The people who are worried about privacy have a legitimate worry,” Mr. Bloomberg said during a press conference in Midtown. “But we live in a complex word where you’re going to have to have a level of security greater than you did back in the olden days, if you will. And our laws and our interpretation of the Constitution, I think, have to change.”

He also saying about adding more cameras, then he goes on with his mantra about gun laws and saving the children. But do check out the readers comments at the end of the article.


.
Another juicy quite from Bloomberg in the same article:

“Look, we live in a very dangerous world. We know there are people who want to take away our freedoms. New Yorkers probably know that as much if not more than anybody else after the terrible tragedy of 9/11,” he said.



Rather ironic, considering he's pretty much describing himself...

rondog
April 24, 2013, 02:07 PM
Bloomberg needs to fall into the East River.....

JSmith
April 24, 2013, 08:15 PM
"Our obligation is...first and foremost, to keep you safe if you go to a sporting event; first and foremost is to keep you safe if you walk down the streets or go into our parks,” [Bloomberg] said."

I'll take responsibiity for my own safety if you don't mind, Bloomie.

Carl N. Brown
April 24, 2013, 08:51 PM
Bloomberg needs to fall into the East River.....

What did the East River ever do to deserve that?

TheSaint
April 24, 2013, 08:56 PM
What did the East River ever do to deserve that?
Exactly. Lets not add more pollution to it than it already has.

Trent
April 25, 2013, 04:24 PM
So, they're going to outlaw black powder because of the Boston Bombings, when it wasn't black powder?

Fireworks. Commercial ones, reprocessed.

Potassium Perchlorate and Aluminum powder.

Not black powder.

These politicians are an ignorant group.

CoRoMo
April 25, 2013, 04:30 PM
As you know, they merely NEED innocent people to die in a general manner so that they can then disarm the American public. The manner of death to those innocent people doesn't have to directly coincide with the method of disarmament they then choose.

longknife12
April 25, 2013, 04:48 PM
Trent, facts have meant nothing in this years drive to outlaw everything!
Gawd, it's like trying to talk to brick walls........insearch of utopia.
Dan
:confused:

hang fire
April 26, 2013, 04:39 AM
http://www.examiner.com/article/senator-to-propose-bill-regulating-black-power-wake-of-boston-massacre



Saw this coming...
Damned odd, I posted a thread about this the other day, and one of the mods immediately scrubbed it.

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