Guns in Shanghai..


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twoblink
March 16, 2004, 02:15 AM
Well... I'm back in Taiwan after a 5 day trip to Shanghai, China. Mostly gunless, except for the armed money transports!!

Saw'ed off shotguns...

I was scared to take a pic.. had to sneak around.. The bank CEO's all wear camo bulletproof vests while this is going on...
http://www.thehighroad.org/attachment.php?s=&postid=871580

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Black Majik
March 16, 2004, 02:41 AM
Wow, Taiwan's gettin' hardcore!

I remember last time I was there, they had the lanyards with white rope attached to them. Kinda had the formal police look.

This looks like all out militia style mall ninja! :D

twoblink
March 16, 2004, 02:56 AM
That ain't taiwan, that's the People's Republik of China.. Not the Republic of China.. (PRC vs ROC).. :D

The cops in Taiwan are a joke... Most wear only empty holsters..

Only beat cops have guns, they carry Smith's 9mm's...

Black Majik
March 16, 2004, 03:02 AM
Oh that explains a lot then... I was actually surprised/impressed if that was the Taiwan police :D

The Taiwan police is definitely a joke. I always wondered why rope connected their gun to their uniform when I was a kid. I thought that was so corny ;)

Kodiak AK
March 16, 2004, 03:25 AM
I believe it stems from Britsh Army tradition. It is how ever rather practical in the real world still.

twoblink
March 16, 2004, 03:29 AM
Also, quite a few of them have the "pretty holsters", what I call "useless holsters". They have a big white flap that flaps over the entire gun, and it's not snapped on, but "roped" in, so if you wanted to draw your gun, you have to grab the end of the string, unwind it, open up the flap, use the other hand to hold the flap open while you grab the gun.. :rolleyes: I saw a few do it, it was like an 8 second process...:rolleyes: :rolleyes:

DigMe
March 16, 2004, 12:24 PM
I have to wonder if those guns are real and loaded. I've lived in China at two different points in my life and I never saw anyone in China with a real gun besides official military/police and even some of those that I saw standing guard at places I had to wonder if the gun was even real (like the soldier that was always standing guard at the TV station where I filmed a show I was on.... he always had a chrome AK..seriously, I couldn't tell if it had " 'da switch" or not ;) It probably was real though because I lived in the town where Falun Gong started and they were always trying to take over that TV station). China is all about appearances though and many things are not as real as they seem.

I saw one bank guard one time that had a pistol on his belt. I took a closer look when he wasn't looking once and the pistol was obviously fake. However, in Beijing I regularly saw military and police with guns, especially on holidays and in the embassy districts. MP5's (or some variant) and AK's mostly. All of the armored car couriers that I saw had big cattle prods on their belts and they wore body armor and helmets. I guess the guns probably are real and they could be paying the military to provide security but I just had to wonder out loud. Camo BDU's weren't the typical military dress on-duty or off as far as I saw in any city I lived in or visited.


brad cook

waynzwld
March 16, 2004, 01:24 PM
I've been to Shanghai 4 times and yes, you better not look too long at the couriers when the banks are transfering money. They always look like they are looking for any excuse to get nasty on someone. I also noticed that the people there gave a wide berth to them when this was taking place. The last time I was there they were all carring shotguns, the other times they had AK's and PPS's. Sometimes there were only a few and other times there was a whole squad.

waynzwld
March 16, 2004, 01:26 PM
Oh! Twoblink, what part of Shanghai were you in?

El Tejon
March 16, 2004, 01:33 PM
Ah, Shanghai.:)

Tell us more about it, two.

Gabe
March 16, 2004, 10:48 PM
Searched the net and found some pics. Some sort of police recruitment fair.


http://www.thehighroad.org/attachment.php?postid=873730

Gabe
March 16, 2004, 10:54 PM
more

http://www.thehighroad.org/attachment.php?postid=873742

Gabe
March 16, 2004, 10:57 PM
last

http://www.thehighroad.org/attachment.php?postid=873753

natedog
March 16, 2004, 11:01 PM
What kind of gun does the officer on the right have? Looks a bit like an AK converted to a pistol caliber. And what is that rifle with the stock on the ground? The one that the left hand officer has...

Dave Bean
March 16, 2004, 11:33 PM
There is no real gun ownership in China. I read somewhere that the government is real scared about giving guns out to people...or else they might rebel and take over the government. :rolleyes:

Apparently, guns are only given to the People's Liberation Army units and other selected regional units that can be "trusted." There is a real problem for Chinese policemen in rural areas. Since they are not allowed to have guns, the criminals are just running around them or outright killing them when they get in the way. It's a real shame.

Dave Bean

4v50 Gary
March 16, 2004, 11:40 PM
When I went to the mainland back in '82 or so, cops wore white tunics and most were without guns. Then when I went around 2000 more carried guns and the bank escort guys had smgs. I never saw someone patrolling with a RPK though. Didcha catch the grin on the officer with the RPK?

Wildalaska
March 17, 2004, 01:18 AM
Although my wifes Chinese is not that advanced, she translated the Kanji on that truck as basically "Bomb Disposal Truck"..

Any body read it better?

WildsquigglylinesAlaska

tex_n_cal
March 17, 2004, 01:32 AM
Didn't see any guns at all in the PRK when I was there in...

Oh! China! Sorry...I was lost for a moment. :evil:

Didn't see any in Mainland China, when I was there in December. In the Taipei Airport, though, I passed one guy with an M16, leaving a stall in the men's room. He stopped and talked to a guy with an Uzi sub gun.

DigMe
March 17, 2004, 01:39 AM
Seeing those Chinese police ninjas reminds me of a funny story. This guy I knew lived in a different city than I but one time he locked his key in his apartment. I don't remember the whole story but for some reason there was no spare. Someone in the building was friends with a policeman so he called to see if the police could somehow get the door open. Well, the local SWAT type team decided that this was the perfect time for some practice so the whole swat team showed up in their van all dressed in their ninja gear and they went up to the roof of the building (he lived on the third floor) and as the entire neighborhood watched, rapelled down to the window, went in and unlocked the door. This is typical Chinese way of doing things. I could go on and on with stories. :)

brad cook

Black Majik
March 17, 2004, 01:57 AM
digme reminded me one thing I loved MOST about taiwan. Damn their airsoft gun stores are freakin' HUGE!!! Maybe because I was jus' a kid (I was born there) but I remember walls and walls of airsoft guns that looked real. One that stood out most was my cousins stainless 1911. I would play that thing all day and night and dry fire that gun constantly. I was jus' too amazed at all the cool toys Taiwan had. Even full auto M16 airsoft guns that looked like the real thing.


...Whoa... I think I found out why I love 1911's so much. Subconsciously I must have remembered this moment of that stainless airsoft 1911.... ahh I see the light... :p

twoblink
March 17, 2004, 03:02 AM
My host in China says, all the guns in China are "fake" or else the bullets are rubber, except for the money transporters. Those guys are shootin' 3" #00 buck. (ouch!)

The airport cops have rubber bullets..

The M16's and uzi's in taiwan's airports are real guns and real bullets.

That truck is the bomb squad's..

Arming the police with real bullets are not a good idea in the eyes of the China government. Rebel would then be just a bullet away ;)

Shanghai was awesome. I loved it. The tourist locations are fairly clearly outlined. Stay within the lines, and you are ok, go out of them... :uhoh: There's a policeman every few feet in the tourist areas, and they know who the local pickpockets and thieves are, I see them shoo'ing them away. They don't mind that they pickpocket or steal, just aren't allowed to do it in the high tourist areas :rolleyes:

The cops at the bank, they don't have real guns... or more correctly, they don't have real bullets... and no rifles have real bullets. Again, they don't want to run the risk of someone deciding that picking off a political official is a good idea...

The shotguns however, ARE real....

I'm not sure the effective range of #00 buck.. 25 feet maybe??

Gabe
March 17, 2004, 03:33 AM
With China's overpopulation and lack of firearms familiarity among their cops I think rubber bullets + shotguns make a lot of sense. I'm sure they'll issue the real thing if SHTF.

Civilian ownership of firearms is limited to hunters only. I don't mean sport hunter but meat hunters. If you live in an area where people hunt to live there's no problem buying a bolt rifle.

5 or 6 years ago I was doing some hiking in one of China's national parks and found a 9mm Makarov round by the trailside. So somebody has an illegal handgun and had a good time. :D

At the time the Chinese were trying to wipe out drug smugglers along the border with Vietnam. I remember several villages were said to be so well armed that the police had to mount an assualt with APCs and one was knocked out in action by something heavy.

Chip Dixon
March 17, 2004, 10:47 AM
00 Buck is ~30 caliber. You'll get way out beyond 25 feet with that, and still be able to do lethal damage. With a sawed off barrel you might have some grouping and accuracy issues though, my experience is limited to 18" barrels for #00. 50 ft is easy. I'm sure I'd be able to shoot much further, if I had to. But, I'd pull out a rifle if I had to go beyond 75 ft or so .. less chance of hitting something I didn't want to.

Skunkabilly
March 17, 2004, 11:48 AM
I'll be there Apr 2-12.

twoblink
March 17, 2004, 12:33 PM
Skunk, while you are there, don't stare!!

:uhoh:

They were REALLY looking for trouble, and I had to sneak around with my camera and nto get caught, I don't think they would have had a problem taking my camera and smashing it to bits...

The shotgun was very short; sawwed off with a pistol grip on the back and a pistol grip on the grip too... Up close, I'd say the entire gun couldn't have been more tha 24" total.. That'd probably mean a 16" barrel???

One of the problems I find with "rubber bullets" is that due to their "near" non-lethality, the cops might shoot at the first flinch because they think it's not lethal... ug..

Skunky, why are you going?

Jacobus Rex
March 17, 2004, 05:30 PM
I was in the PRC for a couple of weeks last year in Guangzhou in the Guangdong province. I saw two money transfers, one protection detail, and several police officers with weapons.

The tranfer guards had the all black uniforms like the photos above but the ones that I saw were armed with copies of Remington 870 shotguns. They backed the armored cars right up to the front doors and shut down everything for the money transfers.

The protection detail had their primary weapons concealed but had sap gloves and such. They had black uniforms as well but different than the money transfer guys. They were protecting a VIP.

Most of the regular police that I saw had no firearms but the NCO's had Makarov's in flap holsters.

James

Skunkabilly
March 17, 2004, 05:42 PM
Shanghai, Beijing and small places in between. I think.

We were supposed to go around this time last year but they were knee-deep in SARS.

Is that lightbar a Whelen?

atek3
March 18, 2004, 02:24 AM
I think the knee pads on those swat are blackhawk. (made in vietnam BTW)

atek3

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