Schools anti-NRA?


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james nicholson
April 19, 2013, 01:07 PM
This http://www.wboy.com/story/22020264/8th-grade-student-arrested-over-gun-t-shirt This is from WBOY TV 12 Clarksburg WV facebook page.

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Shadow 7D
April 19, 2013, 01:13 PM
What are you suprised, the Union will pony up and protect the teacher, the school district will settle and the DA will drop charges...

swalton1943
April 19, 2013, 01:24 PM
I think a lawsuit big enough to pay for a college degree [6 years, maybe] is needed to make a point, and police dept. needs to have their hand spanked.

25cschaefer
April 19, 2013, 01:32 PM
a synapses of the story for those who don't click links:

An 8th grade boy was suspended from school and arrested for disturbing the educational process for wearing an NRA shirt with a picture of a hunting rifle on it. The story says it is not against school policy and he did not become aggressive.

-When I was in school, I think I might have had a shirt that didn't have a gun on it.-

CoRoMo
April 19, 2013, 01:36 PM
This is how the ruling class wants it; zero tolerance. If the ruling class remains in power, their policies (written and unwritten) remain in effect.

Seriously, in today's America, if any of our kids walk out the door with an AR15 rifle image printed on their shirt and they enter a public school, who thinks they won't leave in handcuffs?

No, it shouldn't be happening but it is and does every single day in America. We could fill a library with articles like this; kids arrested for playing Cowboys & Indians, children suspended for talking about a hunting trip, etc.

After reading about children who nibble pop-tarts into the shape of a gun and are then punished under our zero tolerance rules, how can any parent allow their kid to go to school with such a t-shirt on and not expect an arrest later in the day?

mesinge2
April 19, 2013, 01:42 PM
I think a lawsuit big enough to pay for a college degree [6 years, maybe] is needed to make a point, and police dept. needs to have their hand spanked.
I agree 100%

Jeff H
April 19, 2013, 02:28 PM
This is how the ruling class wants it; zero tolerance. If the ruling class remains in power, their policies (written and unwritten) remain in effect.

Seriously, in today's America, if any of our kids walk out the door with an AR15 rifle image printed on their shirt and they enter a public school, who thinks they won't leave in handcuffs?

No, it shouldn't be happening but it is and does every single day in America. We could fill a library with articles like this; kids arrested for playing Cowboys & Indians, children suspended for talking about a hunting trip, etc.

After reading about children who nibble pop-tarts into the shape of a gun and are then punished under our zero tolerance rules, how can any parent allow their kid to go to school with such a t-shirt on and not expect an arrest later in the day?

I wouldn't have expected the arrest, but I certainly would expect that my child was sent to the Principal's office or suspended. That is just the way it goes anymore. Hell, when I was a kid, we brought plastic guns to school all the time and played cowboys and Indians at recess. My grade school aged children aren't even allowed to bring a plastic knife to school to put cream cheese on their bagel.

Sad, but that is the way it is and every parent with school age kids should know that.

lilguy
April 19, 2013, 03:15 PM
With rights come responsibility. Unless you live underground you'd know this could be a problem. I wear T's with gun slogans when I go out sometimes. But not everywhere and not all the time.

vtail
April 19, 2013, 03:23 PM
In New York I could believe it, but in West Virginia?

If this was my son, he would never, ever return to the public school system.

This is just too much. :fire: :fire:




http://www.wowktv.com/story/22020264/8th-grade-student-arrested-over-gun-t-shirt

It was the image of a gun printed on Jared's t-shirt that sparked a dispute between a Logan Middle School teacher and Jared, that ended with Jared suspended, arrested and facing two charges, obstruction and disturbing the education process, on his otherwise spotless record.

Shadow 7D
April 19, 2013, 03:26 PM
Don't blame the victim, the school HAD HIM ARRESTED
this isn't a call from the principle, this is a call form the POLICE, 'come pick you kid up from JAIL' if he saw the inside of a cell....(couple court cases about kids that young and cells)

J-Bar
April 19, 2013, 03:36 PM
That young man may just get a school-board funded scholarship to college. I hope.

Big Boy
April 19, 2013, 03:41 PM
I can't even handle the "political correctness" of this country anymore.


I bet if he would have been wearing a pro gay marriage shirt he would have been fine and simply "standing up for peoples rights"

OilyPablo
April 19, 2013, 03:42 PM
Holy smokes. Probably the same thing would happen in many school districts.

I appreciate the balanced news report! Seriously, not bad.

Coop45
April 19, 2013, 03:43 PM
Oh yes! Tee shirts are dangerous. I had a red one that I caught rubbing on the barrel of my Glock.

Vector
April 19, 2013, 03:43 PM
Something does not sound right with this story.

While the school might be out on a limb by suspending him, how does that turn into an arrest for obstruction and disturbing the education process?

CoRoMo
April 19, 2013, 03:48 PM
So we hear/read these types of stories every single day now. How many families have ever filed and/or won a lawsuit over the whole zero tolerance lunacy?

Any links to articles would be appreciated about a family winning a lawsuit because little Johnny made a lego gun and was suspended, arrested, punished, etc.

stumpers
April 19, 2013, 03:48 PM
I would suggest that anyone who doesn't like public education and their rules make the financial sacrifice of private education - if you can find one of those you agree with. There is also home school.

This is what happens when you pay others (teachers) to educate your children, but allow someone else entirely (school board) to make the rules with which, and on what policies, your educational tax dollars are spent.

I would make it a point to wear a pro-2A shirt or gunmaker shirt without a gun on it every day for the rest of the year.

JFrame
April 19, 2013, 03:49 PM
And yet, I suspect the vast majority of U.S. school systems would have no problems with a student wearing a T-shirt commemorating a mass murderer like Mao or Che Guevara.

The young man's T-shirt was pretty innocuous on the surface, and didn't even meet any of the criteria for violations according to the County's dress code policy.

We have really rounded the bend on statist stupidity and thought control.


.

wild cat mccane
April 19, 2013, 03:51 PM
Lots of attacks on "PC" or "ruling class"

It is only offensive until it is your group that is being picked on.

How about a shirt that says Christians can't kill in war because of all the crap Jesus said, you know, the CHRISTian part?

2 sides of the story.

No distractions in school really is a good policy.

KODB
April 19, 2013, 03:53 PM
Where is the ACLU on this one? This is not even truly a gun rights issue: this is a bona fide 1A issue which this school system apparently is too blind to see- and represents what is slowly happening all over the country. Not only should this young man and his family fight this one all the way, but I would expect/demand some support from both our national 2A organizations, and (although almost certainly won't happen due to the often hypocritical nature of many of these) ALL of the pro 1A organizations such as the ACLU.

We have been talking for months about getting pro 2A candidates; clearly we have to appeal to the multitude of other rights that are being progressively encroached upon (ironic pun properly applied!).

Bob

Walt622
April 19, 2013, 03:56 PM
Arrested for disturbing the educational process? If that was a crime back when I was in school, I would have got the chair!

CoRoMo
April 19, 2013, 04:03 PM
It is only offensive until it is your group that is being picked on.
Which group did his shirt 'pick on'?

Akita1
April 19, 2013, 04:10 PM
deleted

Akita1
April 19, 2013, 04:11 PM
Lots of attacks on "PC" or "ruling class"

It is only offensive until it is your group that is being picked on.

How about a shirt that says Christians can't kill in war because of all the crap Jesus said, you know, the CHRISTian part?

2 sides of the story.

No distractions in school really is a good policy.
Not if there is no school policy against it, he was not disruptive, etc. This is a PUBLIC school. Smells like a 1A matter to me, IMHO.

parker51
April 19, 2013, 04:12 PM
Which group did his shirt 'pick on'?

Future Democratic Senators of America? :D

mesinge2
April 19, 2013, 04:28 PM
I would make it a point to wear a pro-2A shirt or gunmaker shirt without a gun on it every day for the rest of the year.

I like this idea!

armoredman
April 19, 2013, 04:31 PM
We are missing some things, like what specifics on the crime, what was actually said/done. Class room full of witnesses, all underage.
If the police were called because the kid refused to change into a gym shirt, (usual action for an offensive shirt), or turn it inside out, then they probably ordered him to the principals office, which would of course escalate with an angry 14 year old. I would really like to know what transpired to call the police...and if my son's school called PD for this reason, I would own them, lock stock and gym socks.

Shadow 7D
April 19, 2013, 04:38 PM
Read it again, reports say, the kid was calm

Uncle Richard
April 19, 2013, 05:13 PM
What were the two charges against the young man?

USAF_Vet
April 19, 2013, 05:18 PM
I'll be digging up my NRA hat to wear on Sunday at my kids' school function.

Hell, I might even open carry.

armoredman
April 19, 2013, 05:18 PM
<deleted>

The school is a government institution, funded by tax dollars and technically open to the public. Children are required upon pain of arrest to attend these schools until a certain age is reached. This changes things slightly.
Nobody is forced to post/read THR. My child is forced to go to public school - I can't afford private school nor can I home school him at this point. So he MUST go to this school.
I see pictures from schools who tore down the US flag and raised the flag of a foreign nation instead, and nothing was done. I read reports of s child sent home for wearing a t-shirt that shows an American flag, and now this.
The only t-shirts I couldn't wear in high school were ones with swear words, or ones deemed as offensive by admin under certain guidelines. Having read the school's criteria on another story, it appears that it was not a prohibited item, though I would hazard a guess that an emergency meeting of the school board will make sure anything relating to guns/firearms/Bill of Rights/NRA/Second Amendment will be added as "offensive".
Schools are for teaching, not for crazy parents to politicize their kids.
Fascinating - so we are crazy for being NRA members, is that what you said? Or are we crazy for letting our children wear clothes of their choosing that promotes something they believe it in that has nothing defined in law as pornographic or illegal? Kids wear shirts all the time promoting things that are not in school, from Tinkerbell to Maroon 5, shall we send them home, too?
I doubt that kid wore that shirt because his dad forced him to do so.

Sam1911
April 19, 2013, 05:38 PM
I'll vote for "if I had a shirt that DIDN'T have guns on it when I was in school, I can't recall..." :)

First it is imperative that the ACTUAL events are understood, and the ACTUAL charges are made clear. We do ourselves a disservice when we automatically flock to the defense of folks who turn out to have been clearly in the wrong, and that -- unfortunately -- happens fairly frequently.

(However, nothing so far indicates that this actually IS the case here.)

If not, this is a grand opportunity for the young man to really get something out of his education -- like a fat settlement! :) May flights of angels bring to him better lawyers than the school district has!

InkEd
April 19, 2013, 05:54 PM
ACLU and NRA need to get involved in this one. Lawsuit time!

we are not amused
April 19, 2013, 06:28 PM
Lots of attacks on "PC" or "ruling class"

It is only offensive until it is your group that is being picked on.

How about a shirt that says Christians can't kill in war because of all the crap Jesus said, you know, the CHRISTian part?

2 sides of the story.

No distractions in school really is a good policy.

And your point is?

I have seen shirts with a lot worse on it, (and as a Christian, I understand the difference between war and murder, although I understand many atheist don't) and it is generally considered "Free speech", you know, the whole First Amendment thing!

Jframe is correct, I have seen the T-shirts he described in schools, and the kids wearing them weren't being sent to the office.

If no distractions in school was a good policy, we would ban good looking girls from classes or make them wear burkas!

Wait, strike that last one, no sense giving the fascist running the schools any ideas.

Ankeny
April 19, 2013, 07:18 PM
We do ourselves a disservice when we automatically flock to the defense of folks who turn out to have been clearly in the wrong, and that -- unfortunately -- happens fairly frequently. I agree. There is no doubt more to this story. Then again, we all know the automatic response to having our feelings hurt is to sue...sue...sue.

jmr40
April 19, 2013, 08:41 PM
Anything students wear or do at school that causes a disruption are not allowed. It has always been this way, nothing new here. When I was in school during he 60's and 70's I would have been suspended for wearing that shirt as well. The dress code called for shirts with collars. T-shirts, shorts and sneakers were only allowed in gym classes. Otherwise you were expected to wear proper clothes. Sleeveless shirts were not even allowed in gym classes.

The things that disrupted classes in the 60's and in 2013 are far different. A pocket knife or even a gun in the truck wouldn't have raised an eyebrow back in the day. An NRA shirt can, and did cause a class disruption today. That is why they don't allow anything controversial at school. It is not just gun related. Wear Pro-life, or Gay pride a T-shirt and the same result would have happened.

Over the years I've seen students suspended for chewing gum, hair too long, too short, the wrong color, uncovered tattoos, unusual body piercings, skirts too short, having a walkman, cell phone and even girls wearing jeans to school. In my day girls had to wear dresses or skirts unless the morning temps were in the 20's and then it had to be dress slacks, no jeans. No short pants by anyone even in Georgia in September with no AC. Most of those things, and much more are SOP in most schools today, but would have gottenkids susbended at various times in the last 40 years.

This kid was suspended for knowingly violated school rules just to draw attention to himself, he was arrested for unruly behavior.

Sam1911
April 19, 2013, 09:51 PM
This kid was suspended for knowingly violated school rules just to draw attention to himself, he was arrested for unruly behavior.
That seems to be exactly untrue. The article specifically says there is no such policy and the kid was NOT unruly.

None of us has read the policy nor were we there to observe his behavior, so it's probably best not to cast such stones.

And how in the world could any of the ridiculously sedate slogans the NRA prints on its licensed t shirts ever be considered "disruptive?" I know poodle skirts and bobby socks might have caused quite an uproar back in the day, but we've come a little ways since then! :)

Vurtle
April 19, 2013, 10:39 PM
I have two shirts with the word American real big across the front, American flag on the sleeve, and an ar15 on the back. I try to wear them any time I can. I often wear them to tee ball practice and other social events. I wouldn't allow cops to tell me my shirt is disruptive and that I have to change it. Why should any citizen be arrested for that no matter where his location.

Vurtle
April 19, 2013, 10:42 PM
My kid wears his camoflauge to school every now and then and carries his coyote brown back pack everyday.

Vurtle
April 19, 2013, 10:45 PM
My highschool tried to have a special day called dress to kill. Appearantly they meant tuxedos. Everybody showed up dressed like hunters and soldiers. They didn't have the dress to kill day anymore. They also tried to make a dress code that included all of us had to tuck our shirts in. We revolted and they changed their minds.

r1derbike
April 19, 2013, 11:28 PM
Just the facts, Ma'am (Joe Friday?). The truth lies somewhere between fact and fiction. Let's wait for all sides to weigh-in.

MikeS.
April 19, 2013, 11:51 PM
From Keith Morgan President of the WVCDL of which I'm a card carrying member. The WVCDL was instrumental in getting 5 pro 2A bills through the state legislature in the last session, which just ended. Our House was pretty Pro but the Senate was tough.

WVCDL Official position regarding the Logan school incident:

The WVCDL finds major fault with the school system based upon the facts as presented by media. However, having said that, the WVCDL's rather extensive experience with the media has exposed bias, a tendency towards overblown sensationalism, and an almost universal failure to get a single fact correct in any given story. In short, the media prints or airs stories for a single purpose, and that purpose is the generation of advertising revenue. A sensational story like this is a near guarantee to draw eyes to advertisements from across West Virginia, and likely from across the nation. Understand that with modern media, facts are secondary to advertising draw.

Thus, the WVCDL stands in direct opposition to the Logan school system, and in strong support of the student, if the facts reported are accurate and complete. However, absent more detailed information regarding the behavior of the student, the escalation cycle, and how both parties behaved leading to an arrest, the WVCDL is reserving a formal position at this time.

We are in a limited position to help the student, but assuming the facts shake out over time as reported, we will do what we can to support him and do what we can to ensure that this does not occur again in West Virginia.

Bhamrichard
April 19, 2013, 11:56 PM
My grade school aged children aren't even allowed to bring a plastic knife to school to put cream cheese on their bagel.

What's a bagel.. is that something like a biscuit? You put gravy on biscuits, not cheese :)

CApighunter
April 20, 2013, 12:17 AM
I'm a junior in highschool and wear my NRA shirt once a week. Never had any official issues, just some angry looks from a few teachers and administrators. If they want to challenge me on it, bring it on. I know my rights and will not back down.
CApighunter

BBQJOE
April 20, 2013, 12:30 AM
It's just a darned good thing that shirt didn't have a ND!:what:

There has to be more to this story IMO.

snakeman
April 20, 2013, 12:49 AM
I'd be looking for the best, hugriest lawyer I could find to feed his appetite on the school district and shame the police department for unlawfully stripping this boy of his first amendment and second amendment rights.

Millwright
April 20, 2013, 01:35 AM
Could be this lad was another of "those bratty kids", always asking "why ? " ( ! I had one of those ! ) IME, a lot of today's "teachers" (1) haven't much subject matter knowledge, (2) are constrained by the pedagogy pogrom, (3) resent any thing "threatening" to their "authority", (mostly, I suspect, because they're well aware of how slim the knowledge margin twixt student and teacher is.) >MW

Deanimator
April 20, 2013, 11:13 AM
With rights come responsibility.
WHAT responsibility?

To pander to malignantly narcissistic bullies?

Not happening.

Not long after Columbine, a friend and I stopped at Starbucks on the way back from the rifle range. The slacker behind the counter said to me, "Boy, it sure takes a lot of guts to wear that hat THESE days!"

I replied, "Why? Who's going to make me take it off?"

19-3Ben
April 20, 2013, 11:36 AM
I think a lawsuit big enough to pay for a college degree [6 years, maybe] is needed to make a point, and police dept. needs to have their hand spanked.

There's a lot of talk about major law suits, etc.. coming out of this.
Ultimately, what a jury is going to see is that a kid didn't get to wear the shirt he wanted, got in trouble with the teachers/principal, and ended up spending a few minutes (maybe at worst a few hours) in a cell.

No permanent harm, no major damages, no lasting detrimental impact. Just one messed up school day. Somehow I don't see this being worth the big bucks for a private school bachelors degree.

Not to say his rights weren't wrongfully infringed upon. He's got a good case, but probably not worth huge sums of money unless there are some other factors at play that we don't know (ie, he was raped while in lock up and now has psychological damage, his entire social life is now ruined and he is forever mocked as the the kid who got arrested, etc...)

CornCod
April 20, 2013, 12:33 PM
It was a big mistake twenty years ago when school districts and police departments started putting police in public schools. The rather distinct line between school disciplinary matters and juvenile charges has been made rather fuzzy. The cops are now "enforcers" for school administrators. Students are students and not inmates of a correctional facility. I can at least understand the impulse of putting cops in the schools of downtown Detroit, but now every podunk school in surburbia and rural areas seems to have "resource officers" roaming the halls. It makes even less sense considering the nationwide decline in crime over the last twenty years.

CmdrSlander
April 20, 2013, 02:43 PM
My nephew wrote a piece for his creative writing class wherein he described how to select, sight in and accurately fire an AR15.

Nobody died.

Nobody was expelled.

OMG.

Ankeny
April 20, 2013, 03:28 PM
I taught for 32 years in public schools, and every time I see one of these threads it amazes me how quick folks are to go sue crazy as they line up to crucify the educational system. I should be at the range doping loads before the wind comes up, but just for kicks I did some research on the school in question. Let's just say it appears the school has an abundance of issues. Low ratings in areas like school climate, student achievement, discipline problems, etc. I wouldn't be surprised to learn the entire situation was mishandled by all parties involved. Should be interesting to see how this shakes out.

Huskerguy
April 20, 2013, 04:05 PM
All of this is interesting. I have 28 years in education and the last 15 as an administrator in the public sector. I am now a private Christian School Principal.

1. There is likely more to this story. So far we have only heard one side - his - "he stayed calm." Heard kids say that before in my office.

2. It is called compulsory education. Depending on your state, it is to age 16 when parents can sign you out or 18 you can sign yourself out. You have the ability as parents through your school board elections and public comments at board meetings - use it. But when you do, get your facts together. Ours are on T.V. here.

3. A general understanding of school law gives administration the ability to make decisions based on the good of the whole. That means not everything has to be written down word for word but if he/she thinks something is interrupting the educational system they can intervene. Not sure how that fits here but it could.

4. The interesting part of all of this to me is calling the police. There had to be some kind of refusal to obey or something to do that. I have only done that one time and the kid was out of control and interestingly enough, the parent was also the LEO.

5. Talk all you want about suing and winning. School administrators are threatened to be sued nearly every week. They are government agencies and there is a certain amount of immunity there. You have to prove some damages and negligence. Without knowing all details it is hard to say but I would think it is likely.

I worked in a a rural area and wonder what would have happened in my HS had this happened. I would hope it never would have gotten to this point. Good luck and I hope this comes out well for the student and parents. Schools are tough places to work and that is why I retired from public ed early

Black Knight
April 20, 2013, 11:51 PM
Sounds to me the father needs to contact the Rutherford Institute. There was a similar case in a local area school a few years ago. I don't recall the exact outcome but the school system did do some serious back stepping.

Gaucho Gringo
October 5, 2013, 11:06 PM
When I was in grade school and high school everyone had a pocket knife and we used to play mumbly pegs with the knives. Nobody got hurt and no one thought of even attacking anyone. If we would have we would have got a beating unlike any other when our parents were informed. Things have changed for the worse IMO.

Robert
October 6, 2013, 08:19 AM
This is nothing new, and in this case the story is from April, so let's call this one done.

hso
October 6, 2013, 12:17 PM
Charges dismissed in June.
http://www.wowktv.com/story/22674521/prosecution-attempts-to-silence-jared-marcum-with-gag-order-reporter-covering-story-threatened-with-arrest
http://www.wowktv.com/story/22029456/questions-remain-unanswered-for-8th-grade-student-arrested-over-shirt-jared-marcum-wv-arrested-t-shirt

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