Ages of Empire, And Gun Control


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ExTank
April 20, 2013, 11:19 AM
For the purposes of this discussion, the U.S.A. is considered an Empire. Perhaps not in the classical sense, but our growth and development is such that I think the comparison stands.

The recent (3-4 decades) and current gun control frenzy is the result of our entering a specific "phase" in the growth and decline of an Empire. An Empire is said to go through several cycles in its lifetime:

1. Foundation. Our Revolutionary War and the Constitutional Convention.
2. Expansion. Breaching the Appalachia Mountains, Manifest Destiny, etc. Our Civil War, and the Frontier Wars against the Native Americans.
3. Stabilization. The interim where we run up against our natural borders, and perhaps seek to push beyond them (acquisition of Hawaii, Philippines, etc).
4. Maturation. Tying it all together. Establishment of bureaucracies to administer/control territories (states, territories, possessions).
5. Decline.
6. Collapse.

The gun control craze is the direct result of our being squarely in phase 4, and bumping up against phase 5 due to our flirtations with statist control-mongers and ruinous socialist economic policies.

In phases 1-3, the armed citizen, the "bold frontiersman," was a convenient and cheap(er) alternative to the large standing army the British used to conquer a largish chunk of the world. The "powers" in Washington were content to pay lip-service to the second amendment, as it suited their purposes to have an armed citizenry using their own resources to push the frontiers ever westward.

Where there was no law, an armed citizen was their own law. Where there was no Army, the armed citizen stood sentinel on their own lands.

But now we are in phase 4. Our frontiers are secure, as is our interior (relatively speaking; no one is going to invade us with a military force, even if we are vulnerable to individuals/small groups of dissidents/terrorists). War of expansion/conquest are not the thing anymore. The world has grown small with our transportation and communications networks and infrastructure.

There is no longer any perceived need for armed, independent citizenry amongst the "higher ups" in the economic/social/political hierarchy. The order of the day now is control, conformity, submission to authority, and consensus (group-think).

Compare and Contrast:

Growing up in the 70's-80's, if kids got into a fight, adults/teachers might keep an eye on things to make sure they didn't get out of hand, but otherwise let things sort themsleves out. The attitude was, "Boys will be boys, and boys will fight."

Nowadays, if kids get into a fight, it's almost a federal issue, with cops and judges and probation, etc.

Growing up, if a high-school aged kid said they were going hunting some weekend, a teacher was apt to say, " What kind of gun/scope you got? Got all your safety gear? Have fun, good luck, be safe!"

Nowadays, they alert the Dept. of Homeland Security and Child Protective Services.

Growing up, if said high-school aged kid headed out of his house with a rifle to go hunting, no one batted an eye.

Nowadays, a nervous nellie neighbor will call the cops, and a Police Tac Unit will have his car surrounded before he gets within shouting range of a deer, rabbit, or squirrel.

(Okay, I exaggerate some for effect, but I stand by the underlying truth).

This isn't some old geezer ranting :cuss: about the good old days and how kids today are screwed up. :cuss:

This also isn't intended as CT Woo, or a political screed; please don't take it as such. :neener:


It's just a thought I had, about an alternate way of looking at the underlying motivations behind the push for more gun control.

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Nico Testosteros
April 20, 2013, 11:39 AM
What socialist economic policies?

PlaneJain
April 20, 2013, 11:42 AM
What socialist economic policies? :eek:

swalton1943
April 20, 2013, 11:48 AM
I thought it was just me being paranoid, but you seem to see the same things I am seeing. Parts of our nation/empire seem to be in part 5, while others seem to want to stay in parts 3/4. Guess which parts we are?

beatledog7
April 20, 2013, 11:52 AM
"Boys will be boys...

Not in modern America. Boys will be sensitive, politically correct, androgynous, emasculated drones and will not be allowed to inject any form of traditional maleness into our culture.

Manliness connotes ruggedness and self-sufficiency and is therefore out of fashion. Exceptions to this are becoming more and more rare.

bluetopper
April 20, 2013, 11:56 AM
A democracy will flourish up until the time that voters discover that they can vote themselves generous gifts from the public treasury.

BigBore44
April 20, 2013, 12:19 PM
Every major "empire" has gone through (roughly) the same phases. The only thing that make us different is that our 2A (for the most part) has withstood the bombardment form the government, where others have failed. Because our citizens refuse to let it be taken from them.

In the old days, peasants had to face the empirical armies on the field of battle. With the development of modern firearms, optics and tactics, this is no longer the case. One could argue there is no difference between the old days and today because the weapons were still on an even keel. However one major difference is training. The peasants didn't have the knowledge or skill on how to wield pikes, spears, swords, or bows and arrows properly, whereas the militaries did. So the empires could typically crush rebellions. Many times just a show of force by the military would quiet the people. But occasionally they were overthrown by the shear will of the people to live free or die. Freedom is very powerful. Just ask the British ;)

The "peasants" today pose a far greater risk to the "empire" than in olden times. While we may not have quite as advanced weaponry, we have training, we have knowledge, and we have numbers. That is why the government is trying to slowly erode our rights as opposed to an outright abolishment. They know should they actually make that declaration, even with a vote, that their days verticle will be few.

We can probably never return to what many of the founding fathers wanted this country to be (and please someone, don't bring up slavery and womens rights. That's not what I'm referring to) But we can keep it from getting worse. But we have to hold our government accountable. And I don't mean by just voting. When a government official breaks the law, or commits treason, they should be jailed, stripped of title, and never be allowed to return to the political arena. I believe Obama, Feinstein, Bloomberg, a certain man with the last name Kennedy, (could be a very long list) would be prime examples. They should not get free passes because they are politicians. Breaking the law, is breaking the law. But the more we let them get away with it, the more they will do it without fear of retribution.

We are in the beginning of the 5th phase right now. The "decline" phase is when the people become reliant on the government for their safety and sustinance. The 6th or "collapse" phase is when the government runs out of resources to sustain those programs.

TheFacts
April 20, 2013, 12:37 PM
The decline of an empire??
Unfortunately its inevitable!

The first civilizations were founded ~5 to 6K years ago. Some stood the test of time (500 yrs+); some collapsed in less than 100 yrs. The reasons for civil collapse are too numerous to list, but the theme is generally the same and that theme is; A CIVILIZATION IS DRIVEN TO GROW AND PROSPER AS LONG AS ITS NATURAL RESOURCES ARE PLENTIFUL AND IT POSSESSES A STRONG ETHNOCENTRIC PHILOSOPHY; A CIVILIZATION COLLAPSES WHEN ITS NATURAL RESOURCES ARE DEPLETED AND/OR ITS ETHNOCENTRIC PHILOSOPHY IS WEAKENED/DESTROYED.

In the 21st century, the nations of the world are completely dependent on each other economically, imperialism is at its lowest level since the Roman Empire, most pathogen-based diseases have been conquered, and technological innovation has allowed unparalled natural resource harnessing.

The end result; economic prosperity for not just millions, but BILLIONS of people. The evidence for this; worldwide population explosions (~7 billion people).

Unfortunately, this worldwide prosperity comes at a price and that is the loss of ethnocentric beliefs. Humans define themselves as free-will individuals, and group themselves based on shared beliefs, customs, and philosophies. However, when wealth is abundant, and life is most pleasureable, decadence and sloth also becomes abundant. People put their faith in omnipotent governments, which results in the elimination of free will and choice. Then comes a loss of identity (who we are as a people, what is the purpose of living, what is our destiny). Finally, then comes the "corrosion" that rots out a society from within. The "pillars" have been eaten away by the termites of apathy, corruption, and sloth. What follows is inevitable.

Is the good ol' US of A heading for that eventuality in the 21st century...no one can be certain but all good things must come to an end. :uhoh:


Curiosity yields evolution...satiety yields extinction.

Lateck
April 20, 2013, 12:57 PM
Boy, what a downer thread, :(
BUT, so RIGHT, :eek:
The shame of things is that most people do not know or what to remember history! :mad:


Lateck,

medalguy
April 20, 2013, 01:20 PM
Spot on target if you'll pardon the pun. I too believe this country is entering a phase of decline and I fear we will never come out of it. Too many people today are becoming more and more dependent on the government to do things for them that we would have done ourselves in the past.

I also agree about the emasculation of males in today's society. An independent thinking individual is a danger to the government and the power within that government, and might well cause one to depart from the government-promoted thinking lines. Can't have folks running off the reservation. Anyone wanting to be sulf-sufficiant today is called a "prepper" and looked at as something strange.

Yeah, too much of that post is all too real today. I'm afraid my grandkids will never know the country I was raised in. Much the pity.

Sam1911
April 20, 2013, 01:40 PM
Interesting theory.

Probably would be really fun to debate, pick apart, assault and defend in the right setting, but not nearly close enough to GUNS, SHOOTING, RKBA, Self-Defense, and the other topics we discuss here to be a THR thread.

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