"We Need Long Guns!!" - Boston PD


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CmdrSlander
April 20, 2013, 08:52 PM
If you were listening to the scanner like I was during the Boston bomber pursuit you likely noticed the officers telling dispatch this over and over. They needed rifles, many officers felt like they could have gotten the bombers sooner had they had them.

So my question is: If something like this went down in your town and the police were in a similar situation, would you lend a rifle to the police?

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CCP_Holder
April 20, 2013, 08:54 PM
In a heartbeat.

TCB in TN
April 20, 2013, 09:03 PM
Wouldn't hesitate. I know most of the locals, and the majority are good guys to start with.

M1key
April 20, 2013, 09:03 PM
They wouldn't ever ask me...nor would I volunteer mine.

M

FourTeeFive
April 20, 2013, 09:03 PM
Not in this day and age. How do you know they would know how to properly use the weapon you had? I could see somehow a liability issue coming your way. I personally do not think it is responsible to hand a weapon to someone unless you know they are completely familiar with the proper functioning of it. And a lot of LEO seem to barely know the make and model of the gun strapped to their hip.

They can afford to buy military vehicles, helicopters, and you name what else; so I think they can afford to buy appropriate weaponry and learn how to use it.

sota
April 20, 2013, 09:05 PM
absolutely NOT.


now, if they wanted to deputise me for the duration of a crisis, with full support and backing of their legal capacities in case someone decides to go lawyer happy, then I might consider rendering my and my firearms services to them. but under NO circumstances would I loan a firearm to a law enforcement agency. I have no way of knowing if they can properly operate the weapon system, nor do I have any protection from legal liabilities if they use that weapon and its traced back to me. Yes, I live in a state where they sue everyone for everything all the time. Now if they wanted to fix THAT problem...

Claude Clay
April 20, 2013, 09:06 PM
-^-----------that

fanchisimo
April 20, 2013, 09:11 PM
I wouldn't simply because it could wind up in a number of situations that would prevent it from being returned to me quickly. I always thought police kept a shotgun or something with a little more punch in their car if their pistol wasn't doing the job.

joeschmoe
April 20, 2013, 09:12 PM
I'll take care of my yard, you take care of yours. If you do this for a living pony up the $400 and buy the tools you need to do the job. You can even write it off on your taxes.

ChaoSS
April 20, 2013, 09:14 PM
Most police have two back ups, at least everywhere I've lived, or been, a rifle, and a shotgun.

OilyPablo
April 20, 2013, 09:15 PM
Really?

Every pic I've seen the guys are carrying rifles. They just felt like they needed more rifles or weren't deploying the assets properly.

rcmodel
April 20, 2013, 09:16 PM
They needed rifles, many officers felt like they could have gotten the bombers sooner had they had them.From all the AR-15's I saw on the news for 4 days??

I thought I had discovered why there is an AR-15 rifle & MagPul furniture shortage across the country.
The Boston Police already have them all.

Regardless of all that?


They fired enough rounds without hitting anything to kill more civilians then the bombers did!

They really need to borrow the Kansas City Police firearms instructors for a while.

When those KC cops shoot, somebody drops and don't get back up and run off!

rc

RX-178
April 20, 2013, 09:18 PM
Depending on the situation... and there's too many ways the situation could go to even try to list... maybe I would, maybe I wouldn't.

I will say though, if the cops are in a gun battle with the bad guys (and these Boston Bombers are undoubtedly bad guys), and they need help, and they tell me they need help, I certainly wouldn't tell them to pound sand.

thump_rrr
April 20, 2013, 09:21 PM
The tool pouch I carry has nearly $3,000 worth of hand tools in it.
That does not include the rest of the tools in my truck.
I paid for them as they are the tools of my trade.
The police forces who's salaries and equipment my tax dollars pay for should be able to afford the tools of their trade.

Queen_of_Thunder
April 20, 2013, 09:21 PM
Our folks have AR15's. Tried to convince them to go with 308's but they just wouldn't go for it. Ammo cost too much.

miller.lyte
April 20, 2013, 09:27 PM
Depends. In the south? Likely. In NY, CA, NJ (etc)? Probably not.

Pretty extreme situation and I can't see big city cops realistically needing rifles from civilians, but hypothetically, if it could realistically bring a safer and quicker end to an immensely dangerous situation, I wouldn't necessarily deny them assistance. Some extreme circumstances call for stepping up and helping out even if you don't "have" to.

sota
April 20, 2013, 09:34 PM
it's too bad too. I would have liked to have seen the residents of Watertown armed and standing on their porches guarding their respective properties.

SharpsDressedMan
April 20, 2013, 09:48 PM
I have had that experience, and this is what transpired. A local deputy sheriff called me one morning, and asked if I had a gun powerful enough to stop a really LARGE cat that had escaped from it's wild animal owner. He did not know HOW large, or what type of cat, just that it was loose, could be dangerous to the community, and MAY need to be downed quickly. As you might remember, Ohio recently has a LOT of wild AFRICAN animals released by a nut case owner south of Columbus, so the presence of other lions, tigers, and bears, oh MY, was very possible where we reside. I pondered it, and said, yes, he could borrow my .300 Win Mag, which I had several types of ammo for, including some with military AP bullets. The deputy is a 3 or 4 time graduate of Gunsite, and came over and sighted my rifle in for himself, and went out with my rifle. The cat was later captured by the owner, and was determined to be some intermediate (bobcat sized) exotic, and did not become a threat. I would not have handed my rifle to just anyone, and probably would have ridden along and been the shooter if it was not someone I knew to be competent. Many of our county's deputies are tactically trained, or on the team, and supervisors have access or carry gov't loaned M14's in the squad cars. I agree with the deputizing thing, should LE's need your gun AND "expertise" in use with it. If they can't handle that, then they should make do. Looking back to the N Hollywood shootout, the LAPD "confiscated" guns from a local gunshop (BumbleBee Sales) to stop the bank robbers, and the gunshop got treated rather badly by LAPD before that, and ultimately went out of business due to harassment and overregulation over the years. That was their "thank you" for loaning the guns to the police. Read about it here: http://www.thefreelibrary.com/NOHO+SHOOTOUT+GUN+SHOP+GOES+BANKRUPT.-a083012785

leprechaun50
April 20, 2013, 10:02 PM
Wouldn't loan my rifle to them, but I would volunteer to act as a sniper for them.:)

gunnutery
April 20, 2013, 10:02 PM
Every event like this spurs on more officers to purchase their own rifles (IF dept regs allow it). Yet there's always hold outs until it happens a little closer to their dept. There are even guys that won't train with the guns they ARE issued if they don't get paid for it or ammo supplied.

This is why as a police officer I fight good and hard for our gun rights, because I have guns that I can bring to a fight if all the PD guns are in use. Officers in Boston probably can't even own EBRs for all I know.

We had an incident recently in which it required lots of man power. A local guy lent a couple guns to the effort. One of them was a .50 bmg bolt gun with serious glass mounted. The man was very generous to lend it, but if one of the perimiter guys had to use it on a BG, he likely wouldn't have gotten his rifle back.

gym
April 20, 2013, 10:08 PM
I can't see a situation where that would ever happen in FL. I think they have pretty much the same calibers that the civilians have.

Manco
April 20, 2013, 10:14 PM
Depends. In the south? Likely. In NY, CA, NJ (etc)? Probably not.

In California, at least, theoretically it is required if requested by law enforcement due to posse comitatus:
http://law.onecle.com/california/penal/150.html

guyfromohio
April 20, 2013, 10:18 PM
Of course. The police aren't my enemy by any stretch of the imagination. In a heartbeat.

Strange Bob
April 20, 2013, 10:34 PM
As far as I know our local LEO's carry AR's. I know the DPS troopers do.

GCMkc
April 20, 2013, 10:56 PM
NO. My local PD is armed to the teeth already. I'd lend them my rifle if they gave me cash and could pass a background check.

jerkface11
April 20, 2013, 11:02 PM
I'd loan them a rifle as soon as they pass the background check.

BullfrogKen
April 20, 2013, 11:05 PM
If a Dept needs ARs for its officers but doesn't have the $$$, they always have the option of getting M-16s through the Feds LESO 1033 program at no cost.


They don't need to be left empty-handed to where they have to come begging to borrow mine.

r1derbike
April 20, 2013, 11:06 PM
NO. My local PD is armed to the teeth already. I'd lend them my rifle if they gave me cash and could pass a background check.Heh-heh. I don't care who you are, that was funny right there!

Hmmm. Deputized sniper. Sounds interesting. I don't know. It certainly appeared they had all the SWAT, boots, choppers and hardware they needed. Perhaps it was the locals who weren't issued select-fire M4s begging for the long guns?

Coop45
April 20, 2013, 11:06 PM
They were looking pretty tired late in the day. That battle rattle stuff looks cool, but it's heavy.

denton
April 20, 2013, 11:14 PM
I always like going up to our range after the LEOs have been there. They shoot tons of Lake City 5.56 and don't clean up after themselves. It's a gold mine.

They have abundant firepower, including some things that even I don't think they should have. But if an officer were in a pinch, and needed a firearm or ammunition, I'd loan it to him instantly.

clutch
April 20, 2013, 11:36 PM
If the events are close enough to me that LEO's are coming to my house to beg a rifle, I'm holding on to mine, I NEED IT more than they do. I'm also leaving the area.

Aikibiker
April 20, 2013, 11:41 PM
Maybe one of the cheap ones. After all it might not come back if they actually use it and have to hold it for evidence.

Heck the whole reason I got a couple Mosin Nagants was just in case I felt the need to arm the neighbors in a major disaster situation.

Ignition Override
April 20, 2013, 11:47 PM
sota: Well-put.
However, in a true emergency with innocent lives at stake in My neighborhood, I would tell the officer "Ok, but this is your decision to use it, and bring it back. Do you agree?".
The Golden Rule doesn't apply just to me or my family.

If the day ever comes when law schools have very restrictive admissions quotas similar to medical schools, after a few years maybe we won't be required to First consider the legal implications.

Tomcat47
April 20, 2013, 11:52 PM
No ... No time to run NICS on them and Im not FFL ....

Yes, I live in a state where they sue everyone for everything all the time.

^ Are'nt we all in a state like that! ^

Averageman
April 21, 2013, 12:00 AM
We had a hostage situation down the street that ended up being a disgruntled intoxicated ex-boyfriend holding a pistol to my neighbor ladies head in the front yard.
They talked him down, but to my surprise everyone was using a service pistol. Thats limiting yourself a bit in my opinion.

That being said I cannot imagine offering a rifle to some of these guys, it would seem in my neck of the woods they tend to like to "Take" them from Veterans for Rudely Displaying firearms...

AKMtnRunner
April 21, 2013, 12:07 AM
Well, if a police shootout is taking place near me I don't think it's a prudent idea to come out towards them with a rifle.

RP88
April 21, 2013, 12:11 AM
hell no.

like a rifle would have made a manhunt go quicker, gimme a break. they had the NG with Batman's tumbler patrolling the streets.

Also, if their department is too inept to trust their men with carbines then the last thing I'm gonna do is trust them with my much more expensive one.

cbpagent72
April 21, 2013, 02:23 AM
Sounds like a liability for the cop. Use a rifle you have not qualified on or have sighted in and still be responsible where your rounds go. No thanks.

Sent from my SPH-L900 using Tapatalk 2

michaelbsc
April 21, 2013, 02:36 AM
Sounds like a liability for the cop. Use a rifle you have not qualified on or have sighted in and still be responsible where your rounds go. No thanks.

Sounds to me like the government will make it a liability on you, not on the cop.

Wouldn't surprise me one ounce in a situation like that to see a good guy citizen busted for an illegal transfer, and then the police discover some technicality with the rifle.

So, no thanks.

Having said that, I think it's appalling that in the past 30-40 years we've changed to the point that I honestly believe I could trust Al Capone to play square with me before I would trust the government representatives. It just boggles my mind to think that.

BigBore44
April 21, 2013, 03:11 AM
Locality plays a major part in this discussion. I come from a small town of about 9,000. Been there my whole life. I know all the officers on a first name basis. Know their families. If an officer needed my M1A or Model 70, it's his. To me it's no different than lending a friend in need a firearm. In my town they would give you some kind of civil service citation for doing that.

Now would loan an officer in OKC, that I didn't know, one of those rifles. No, I wouldn't. What I would do is offer my assistance as long as I had the full backing of the department.

So location and trust play a major role. It's why I will NEVER, EVER, live in a big city (more than 20,000 people).

But I have to agree that AR's would not have helped them capture the bombers sooner. And I saw a TON of AR's on the news in those 4 days. But almost all the officers carrying those "evil guns" were federal agents.

Dunkelheit
April 21, 2013, 03:49 AM
Never.

TennJed
April 21, 2013, 04:05 AM
I would but since they would need ammo also I would have to charge them $2 a round for my handloads ;)

tarosean
April 21, 2013, 05:12 AM
Locality plays a major part in this discussion. I come from a small town of about 9,000. Been there my whole life. I know all the officers on a first name basis. Know their families. If an officer needed my M1A or Model 70, it's his. To me it's no different than lending a friend in need a firearm. In my town they would give you some kind of civil service citation for doing that.

Agree with this, while I'm more rural so I know the sheriffs more than my town PD. Town is only 5k thou. Wouldn't hesitate to arm them...

caribou
April 21, 2013, 06:03 AM
Our 'cops' , the village security are not trained, nor do they carry guns, they are 20 something Eskimo kids hired to check locks, sound the cerfew horn and fire watch the village, sometimes make arrests, but thats not often.

Every house in the village has guns guns guns, and yet no 'gun violence'.

Alcohol is the true Evil among us...fighting, crashing, freezing, drownding, ect...

I guess thats what happens when were all "equal" more or less....too bad our youth seem a generation behind the lower 49 seem to have stopped teaching kids about proper gun use, Citizenship and responsibility to self and country.....seems theres a demand for everything to be provided nowdays...

BullRunBear
April 21, 2013, 07:09 AM
Gotta agree with Bigbore44. Real familiarity with the LEOs makes all the difference. In the small town where I grew up we knew the cops and their families. Where I live now I wouldn't do it.

If the wife and I were 40 years younger and starting out we wouldn't be within shouting distance of a city.

Jeff

TheSaint
April 21, 2013, 07:20 AM
I have a fantastic sheriff where we live in California. The man is pro-second amendment all the way is on record, actively gets interested citizens involved in CCW classes, and has stated openly that he will NOT enforce any gun bans/confiscations by the powers that be in Sacremento and D.C.

I've written to him multiple times and the man is very cordial. In short, we have a awesome head of our LEO community. If I was in a gun fight with him, you're damn right I'd pass him a gun or magazine as needed! Responsible sheepdog civilians should always cover the six of a pro-constitution LEO. These guys can use our help.

Now, on the other hand, if you have a big city political appointee running your district, I say you better hang on to your guns, as they'll be in better hands than by handing it off and wondering if you'll ever get it back. Mayor Nagin and Hurricane Katrina anyone?

Thankfully, our local sheriff is a good man and not an incompetent buffoon like in some jurisdictions.

BeerSleeper
April 21, 2013, 07:25 AM
I try to practice the inverse Golden rule.

Do you think the police would have lent me a rifle if I said I needed it? I think there is your answer.

45_auto
April 21, 2013, 07:37 AM
They really need to borrow the Kansas City Police firearms instructors for a while.
When those KC cops shoot, somebody drops and don't get back up and run off!

LMAO!!! They sure don't! Unfortunately, sometimes it's themselves! At least he was lucky enough not to hit someone else.

You may want to reconsider having them train other people to the KC standard of handling an AR15.

A Kansas City police officer accidentally shot his foot Friday as he prepared to help secure a beauty salon where an armed robber had holed up. The patrol officer was near his vehicle, loading a round in his AR-15 rifle when the rifle discharged. The officer, who is one of the department’s firearm instructors, underwent surgery Saturday and may need additional surgery

http://www.kansascity.com/2013/04/15/4183485/kc-police-officer-recovering-after.html

If you had loaned them the AR15, the police department would probably be suing you right now for loaning them a 'defective weapon". No way they're gonna admit it was the cop's fault.

TheSaint
April 21, 2013, 07:53 AM
Assuming he heals properly and it put back in active duty, you know his squadmates are going to give him hell for shooting his own foot. He'll never live that one down. Hopefully he heals fast.

Then again, the 7% accuracy rate being reported by the Boston PD isn't much to sniff at. I'd still give the Kansas City boys the nod, as long as they remember proper trigger finger/safety switch controls. ;)

22-rimfire
April 21, 2013, 09:24 AM
Loan a rifle? I don't know. It would be very situation dependant. First it is likely that I would never see that rifle again. So they might as well confiscate it. Secondly, police seldom tell you anything about "why" they ask for anything. They just tell you.

TRX
April 21, 2013, 11:13 AM
> would you lend a rifle to the police?

I'd first want to know what happened to the rifle my taxes paid for.

Every patrol car in my community has had an M-16 in the trunk since at least the mid-1970s, to my knowledge. Probably earlier.

Ohio Gun Guy
April 21, 2013, 11:20 AM
Heck yes I would!

If they were on my street, protecting me and mine and it was bad enough to be asking for guns / ammo / help....

Absolutely!

RugerBob
April 21, 2013, 11:24 AM
What cop wants to fire a weapon that he doesn't know or use? Why fire at a human in a city area if your not sure if its even sighted in correctly?

So, no, not lending.

Sgt_R
April 21, 2013, 11:31 AM
Not a chance. If things are so bad in my neighborhood that the local PD needs to borrow my rifle, then I most definitely need it more than they do.

R

denton
April 21, 2013, 11:47 AM
local PD needs to borrow my rifle, then I most definitely need it more than they do

You have only one??? :)

Sgt_R
April 21, 2013, 12:20 PM
You have only one??? :)

I only have one AR, yes, but it's a good one (BCM with all the trimmings).

I sold my backup (M&P MOE) recently at an inflated price to fund another project. I do plan to replace it after the market settles down.

R

0to60
April 21, 2013, 12:34 PM
I'm amazed at how many people have said "no" so far. Do you guys realize that the cops are the good guys?? I don't understand the hostility.

Sgt_R
April 21, 2013, 12:54 PM
I'm amazed at how many people have said "no" so far. Do you guys realize that the cops are the good guys?? I don't understand the hostility.

No hostility, I simply expect the police to "make due" with the ample resources which they already possess. Given the images of the scene in Boston, I believe they had the situation well in hand:

http://img.tapatalk.com/d/13/04/22/3apyda4a.jpg

I reserve the right to retain my own limited resources for my own defense.

R

ChaoSS
April 21, 2013, 12:57 PM
Some of the cops are the good guys.


Some of them aren't.


I can see some of the people in rural areas who know their local LE and say yes. But anyone in a city, who doesn't know the cops personally, who would hand over their guns, is just being foolish.

BullfrogKen
April 21, 2013, 01:19 PM
I'm amazed at how many people have said "no" so far. Do you guys realize that the cops are the good guys?? I don't understand the hostility.

Hostility?

Who's being hostile?


Fact is in 95% of the police departments across the country the leadership wouldn't condone it anyway. The risk and liability of using a rifle they don't know, with ammo they don't know, not knowing where it's sighted in is too high. Hell in my state if a cop hasn't qualified with a particular firearm within the last year he can't even use it on duty. So it's not a matter of some cop asking and you getting a chance to help them out.

They wouldn't be asking, really shouldn't be asking, and ought to spend time getting long guns and training to use them before an event occurs that they do need them.


This topic really isn't based in reality, so I'm closing it.

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