Challenging Open Carry Bans


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CmdrSlander
April 22, 2013, 09:45 PM
Several communities adjacent to mine ban open carry. The Kansas Libertarian party attempted to sue on 2A grounds but was denied because they could not show harm.

My nephew lives there and will soon be 18 - old enough to own a gun but not old enough to get a CCW in Ks. I'm thinking he should be the plaintiff with the Kansas LP's backing. Why? Because CCW is not available to him until he is 21 but he can own a gun at 18 (including a handgun if bought in a private sale). He cannot legally carry it in any way however, due to the OC restrictions at the city level and the nonavailability of CCW at his age. He is being denied his right to bear arms (specifically the right to bear - he can keep them).

I think these are good grounds for a suit.

Thoughts?

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sota
April 22, 2013, 09:50 PM
better have deep pockets is all I can say.

CmdrSlander
April 22, 2013, 09:52 PM
better have deep pockets is all I can say.
That would be the Libertarian Party's job...

They would provide the Counsel, my nephew would be a plaintiff with an actual claim: He is disarmed in public despite having reached the age of majority.

JRH6856
April 22, 2013, 10:32 PM
Is this your nephew's idea, or yours?

CmdrSlander
April 22, 2013, 10:34 PM
Is this your nephew's idea, or yours?
Mine, but we are both Second Amendment Enthusiasts.

pwhfirefighter
April 22, 2013, 11:31 PM
A long term solution may be to contact your congress folks and push for state preemption. MS has a state preemption that says cities, counties, municipalities and what not, can't pass any gun laws more restrictive than state laws. At least that is what I understand.

Won't help him much right now, but could be beneficial in the future for all.

Just an idea.

JRH6856
April 23, 2013, 12:00 PM
Before making a sacrifice of your nephew, be sure of the commitment of your financial support and have a long talk with the legal team that will represent him. It is their thoughts that count most, not ours.

N003k
April 23, 2013, 04:09 PM
Since it's your idea, whether you think he'd support it or not, I'd say see if HE is willing to be dragged through the courts first.

Second, if he's willing, I'd say talk to the Libertarian Party and see if they'd be willing to try again with him as a plaintiff.

dogrunner
April 23, 2013, 04:18 PM
And Florida has a general OC ban that's been in effect since '87............prompted by the infamous Janet Reno, of Waco and Ruby Ridge fame.

Fortunately there is currently litigation challenging that ban in the matter of Norman v. Florida. The AG of Fla. tried to get the FSC to toss that action and remove it from the jurisdiction of an appellate level and was just denied that yesterday. Perhaps, just perhaps, we in Florida may again see legalized what had ALWAYS been legitimate since 1845 in one guise or another.

Very, very interesting brief by Normans atty's..........check it out on Floridacarry.com.

joeschmoe
April 23, 2013, 04:51 PM
The place to rewrite laws is the legislature not the courts. I suggest you read Heller/McDonald to see where the court said that localities have always had the ability to restrict the carrying of arms. So you may lose on 2nd grounds.
The only way to get standing is to get arrested for breaking the law, get convicted then appeal. I wouldn't recommend it.
If you want to change the law I suggest you work with the state legislature. Buy your own politicians.

alsaqr
April 23, 2013, 05:57 PM
prompted by the infamous Janet Reno, of Waco and Ruby Ridge fame.

Not Ruby Ridge. The AG in 1992 was William Barr.

Jim K
April 23, 2013, 06:21 PM
Challenging a criminal statute in court does not mean filing a suit, it means being arrested for violating the law and then challenging the arrest on the grounds that the law is unconstitutional. If the defendant loses, then he/she goes to jail and, depending on the law, may have a felony conviction that will prevent him /her from EVER owning a firearm of any kind.

Still want to challenge the law? Or find a volunteer to do so who won't mind going to jail and/or having a criminal record for a (to me) rather dubious gain. The Civil Rights folks had a better cause and a better chance of winning. To do time just for the sake of being able to put on a big macho show seems to me a bad trade.

Jim

r1derbike
April 23, 2013, 11:29 PM
I agree with Jim. Offering self for cannon fodder would be civil suicide. Legislative badgering would be proper course, with the proper backing and mouthpieces.

dogrunner
April 24, 2013, 09:39 AM
You're right Alsaqr, not the serving AG at the time of the incident, merely the one that oversaw the whitewash review of the entire event.

Her involvement in the rammed thru OC ban in Florida is mirrored best by the recent N.Y. safe law..........an appeal to hysteria and a 'seize the moment' mentality!

DSling
April 26, 2013, 01:59 AM
The place to rewrite laws is the legislature not the courts. I suggest you read Heller/McDonald to see where the court said that localities have always had the ability to restrict the carrying of arms. So you may lose on 2nd grounds.
The only way to get standing is to get arrested for breaking the law, get convicted then appeal. I wouldn't recommend it.
If you want to change the law I suggest you work with the state legislature. Buy your own politicians.

I like the wording of your last line.

Justifying my means with their end.

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