Tomahawk Recommendation


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9mmepiphany
April 23, 2013, 12:42 AM
Due to an odd quirt in CA law. while a fixed bladed knife can only be carried openly on the belt, the blade length of a folder is completely unregulated by state law....however, county ordinances then come into play in metropolitan areas.

A interesting point was brought to my attention during a recent CQ shooting class...that carrying a tomahawk is basically unregulated in the state. The instructor actually teaches a class in Combat Tomahawk...it uses the same 12 cuts as combat knives.

I was wondering if this forum's collective wisdom has some recommendations, based on experience as opposed to appearance or hype, as to what to look for in a weapon, if I should decide to pursue this form of combat training

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rcmodel
April 23, 2013, 12:48 AM
Them ones The Vikings TV series are using looks pretty effective to me!!

Yesser!
I wants me one of them!!

Course, I probably should have started training with a hawk or short ax 65 years ago when I was 4 years old, like the Viking & American Indian kids did!!

On the other hand?
I got a shingling hatchet stuck in a tree stump once.
And had to go get tools from the shed to get it out.

That right there would put a screeching stop to things in a real life or death fight.

rc

krupparms
April 23, 2013, 01:17 AM
I have seen quite a few different ones in some of the knife catalogs from Kenasaw Cutlery ect. Some of them may be what your looking for. Some of the better tool companys make hatchets & axes. My favorite is Estwing. They have a number to choose from. I have a 26" Campers ax that is a great tool or weapon. It is to big for general carry but they make 3 smaller models. I would get a cheap ax or hatchet to start with for throwing but make sure it is similar in weight &shape to your good one . Good luck & be careful axes & hatchets bounce! Have fun!

JShirley
April 23, 2013, 02:30 AM
I'd like the cutting edge to be at least 3" deep and 2" wide. The Troy Christianson tomahawk I reviewed here ( http://www.shootingreviews.com/tomahawks-hard-use-tools-and-weapons-or-tactical-toys/) is an excellent size, at 4.5 and 3". It's too much to carry around daily, though! :D

dprice3844444
April 23, 2013, 08:35 AM
http://www.coldsteelknivesdirect.com/tomahawks

bikerdoc
April 23, 2013, 09:15 AM
Troy is a member here and is an amazing craftsmen.

I played with hawks many year ago, decided I didn't want to get that close.

glistam
April 23, 2013, 09:36 AM
I was actually a bit skeptical of that legal pronouncement, but on review of the CA Penal code (http://www.leginfo.ca.gov/.html/pen_table_of_contents.html), I believe it is correct. That's rather surprising, but awesome! Of course one must remain wary of what I call "McGuigans," which are cops who have poor or erroneous understanding of weapon carry laws and will try to confiscate your stuff or even falsely arrest you anyway. I heard from a kid in CA who got his crowbar taken away because he made the mistake of saying he had it to fend off unleashed dogs (he'd been bit the week before)

Anyhow, I like the Fox hunter's axe. Ok technically it's a handaxe not a tomahawk but functionally very good and will do the job. Superb ergonomics and razor sharp. http://www.agrussell.com/fox-knives-roman-style-hunters-axe/p/DE-682/

I like the Rifleman's Hawk by Cold Steel as well because of the hammer head.

Fred Fuller
April 23, 2013, 10:45 AM
A hammer poll hawk is likely a better bet ... and one that doesn't cost too much.

http://www.amazon.com/Cold-Steel-American-Hickory-Handle/dp/B0014BMBA6/ref=pd_sim_sg_3

P.B.Walsh
April 23, 2013, 11:56 AM
I'd get a cheaper Cold Steel one, my trailhawk came DULL from the factory, but I have beat it up pretty good and hasen't chipped or rolled on me, it is just way to dull to be anything but an impact tool (can hardly cut paper).

If it did get unlawfully confiscated, your out $35, not $100+..... wonder if Alabama is open to tomahawks... I just made one...

mdauben
April 23, 2013, 12:36 PM
I've always been facinated by the old Vietnam Tomahawk design by Peter LaGana. There are a couple of companies making reproductions of this design, including Cold Steel (http://www.coldsteel.com/Product/90VT/VIETNAM_TOMAHAWK.aspx) and the American Tomahawk Company (http://www.americantomahawk.com/products/vtac.htm). There are also even more companies that make various interperetations of the modern "tactical" tomahawk, which range in price from $30 imports to custom blades costing several hundred dollars. I believe these weapons have a certain amount of popularity with the troops in the middle east, although I think most of them are used more often as breaching tools than CQC weapons.

sidheshooter
April 23, 2013, 01:13 PM
I am far, far from an expert, but one more for the mill:

http://www.crkt.com/Kangee-Tactical-Tomahawk

X-Rap
April 23, 2013, 01:26 PM
I have wondered about the origins and usefulness or the Ontario SPAX? The blade and tool cutouts for gas valves and hydrants make sense but the sharp downward curve of the spike doesn't seem good for much.
What kind of steel and is it any good?

MICHAEL T
April 23, 2013, 10:57 PM
Cold Steel Hawks can be made shaving sharp. Their a lot of information on these on u tube

wrc
April 23, 2013, 11:17 PM
I've chopped through two logs with this http://www.sogknives.com/tactical-tomahawk-black.html, split some wood, and cleared branches off of plenty of brush. I got it on sale two months ago for $22. It's currently going for $45 or so now.

As far as a fighting tomahawk, it lacks an inward draw point on the head, but has a forward swept thrust point.

I touched up the edge after hacking at the logs, easily improving the edge as shipped. Unlike the two CS tomahawks I've used, it did not immediately loosen and fall apart when used on wood.

If nothing else, it works as a woodcraft tool. It would work well as a weapon, but is not quite as fast as my ATC Lagana.

USAF_Vet
April 23, 2013, 11:47 PM
I've got the hawk WRC linked to. It lives in my bug out bag, but it is a pretty decent and handy little thing.

I've also, somewhere, got a Cold Steel Norse 'hawk, which I also used as a general purpose camp axe, that could be used as a SD tool in a pinch.

That is about the extent of my experience with the tomahawk. I'm learning a bit of modern Arnis from a friend, and he thinks the SOG hawk would be a pretty good weapon in that style, possibly paired up with a good fighting fixed blade.

As an aside, I made a pseudo war hammer out of an old rail spike, and I'd use that in a SD situation pver wither of the 'hawks.

Gordon
April 24, 2013, 12:25 AM
Ok here goes my $.02:
I live in Cali for the last 47 years (with an 6 year hiatus) and watched it , like New Jersey before that go down the toilet.:fire: I have never had a run in with the law and was a reserve LEO many of those years until a few years ago being put out to pasture with no retirement creds :cuss:
So no Cali CCW anymore :uhoh:
What I will share is I carry a Gerber small hatchet in my Roadking saddle bag figuring it would be better than an outlaw biker's ball peen hammer ;)and yes I know how to use it from years of weapon training . I even actually had a Tomahawk in VN , which few actually did. I found that a normal small hatchet is more useful in the real world and probably about as effective in a fight.Certainly rather have my small Gerber hatchet than my 7" bladed Darrel Ralph Ti folder which I do carry when in biker drag, actually one in eachhand would really be nice ;)

One like this:
http://www.midwayusa.com/product/537212?cm_mmc=Froogle-_-Knives%20%26%20Tools%20-%20Axes%20%26%20Tomahawks-_-PriceCompListing-_-537212&gclid=CNWP7_TD4rYCFYU5QgodkwYAOg

DAdams
April 25, 2013, 12:26 AM
My only hawk is a Trail Hawk from Cold Steel.

Check out Bladeforums Hawk sub forum

http://www.bladeforums.com/forums/forumdisplay.php/768-Axe-Tomahawk-amp-Hatchet-Forum.

modding the Trailhawk 106 pages.

THE DRILL INSTRUCTOR
April 25, 2013, 01:11 AM
I also have the SOG tomahawk that WRC linked. I used it quite a bit overseas as a tool and it worked very well, easy to sharpen and it never loosened up. I never had to use it as a weapon fortunately, so I can't speak to it's usefulness there.

Okiegunner
April 25, 2013, 01:29 PM
9mm...

Howe's Knife Shop is having a closeout on their 2 Hawks Tomahawks line.

They have sold out of several of the models (Warbeast, Voyager, large axe) but still have a couple left.

I already own a "Warbeast" and last night ordered a "Woodsman" from them.

6150 Vanadium spring steel and hand forged with a 25 year warranty. Free S/H and 20% off right now.

I'm not trying to sound like an advertisement for anyone (I'm a customer). These are some really nice hawks at a decent price with a good warranty.

wrc
April 25, 2013, 02:08 PM
I was wondering if this forum's collective wisdom has some recommendations, based on experience as opposed to appearance or hype, as to what to look for in a weapon, if I should decide to pursue this form of combat training

Thinking on this part a bit more, I'd really have to recommend the ATC LaGana (http://www.americantomahawk.com/products/vtac.htm) as the shape and size you should be looking at. That works far better as a weapon than the SOG I mentioned earlier.

One key advantage is the lighter head and shorter handle. It is faster by far than the SOG.

The other advantage is the lower point (beveled/sharpened on the face and underside of the head). I like the SOG with its better forward point that can be used to thrust, but if I had to pick I'd go with the ATC every time. Drawing and hooking are just too darn effective.

If you're looking for a pure weapon, something the with the weight, size and head geometry of the ATC is what I'd suggest.

9mmepiphany
April 25, 2013, 02:31 PM
One key advantage is the lighter head and shorter handle. It is faster by far than the SOG.
That is an area that I find very interesting.

Speed and the ability to change direction during the strike is one of the reasons I never changed from a straight baton to a side handle one when they were so popular.

I'm more of a tanto (not the American hybrid) guy than a K-bar guy

JShirley
April 25, 2013, 03:58 PM
One key advantage is the lighter head and shorter handle. It is faster by far than the SOG.

A switch is going to be faster by far than an iron bar, but one is annoying, and the other is lethal. I haven't compared the two you mention, but lighter and supposedly faster is not always better.

John

Silverado6x6
April 25, 2013, 04:56 PM
http://ecx.images-amazon.com/images/I/31ksxtsFqWL._SX385_.jpg

I would consider some of the latest high tech ice axes, I believe they even fold up compactly.

wrc
April 25, 2013, 05:57 PM
A switch is going to be faster by far than an iron bar, but one is annoying, and the other is lethal. I haven't compared the two you mention, but lighter and supposedly faster is not always better.

Then for discussion, it's a good thing that I have compared the two!

We aren't of course, talking about switches and iron bars. The ATC LaGana VTAC is only 1 3/4" shorter and around 4 oz lighter than the SOG. The extra weight of the SOG is mostly in the head. Even though the heads are roughly the same size and shape, the SOG attaches to the handle with what I can best describe as a tang.

You can always choke up on the longer handle, but that extra mass swinging at the end is immediately apparent. It is easier for me to control and recover from swings with the ATC. It also gets into motion faster. That makes it a better weapon for me. It also makes it awful at chopping wood.

Beyond being quicker, the geometry of the cutting face is more useful on the ATC if you're looking to fight with it. The ATC has a sharpened edge on the underside of the head. This keeps that underside in the fight if you hook a limb, or if your opponent closes inside your swing. The SOG doesn't even hook down, so there's nothing extra in play if you over-reach or snag a limb.

I don't care much one way or the other for the spiked backs they both have, but the ATC is definitely equipped with real bevels and cutting surfaces on its spike. The SOG is blunt in comparison.

lobo9er
April 25, 2013, 06:15 PM
RCMODEL....
any pics of that hawk? I never saw the show and could find a picture.

shappa357
April 26, 2013, 05:04 AM
The top one I can't rmember where it's from...Second one is a craig barr damascus. Bottom one is a Keith Johnson that I refinished.



http://i52.photobucket.com/albums/g38/shappa357/hawks/hawk021.jpg (http://s52.photobucket.com/user/shappa357/media/hawks/hawk021.jpg.html)

Madcap_Magician
April 26, 2013, 12:58 PM
RMJ Forge and Daniel Winkler are probably top of the line. RMJ makes more multipurpose tomahawks and run about $450. Winkler has designs for felling, combat, and breaching, and his are $700+.

CRKT is making two RMJ designs as posted earlier for about $115 street price.

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