ge capitol cuts off loans to gun shops


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Oklacoyotekiller
April 24, 2013, 08:57 PM
I wont be buying any more ge products! LA times and cnn both have articles on ge stopping all loans to gun shops.

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Beentown
April 24, 2013, 08:58 PM
They have been doing this for a while. They hassled Buds. GE is one of the largest donors to BHO and the Gun Grabbing side of the isle.

Oklacoyotekiller
April 24, 2013, 09:02 PM
Yeah 2008. But today they cut off all loans to small gun only shops. Still loaning to dicks

InkEd
April 24, 2013, 09:52 PM
Not a surprise. Look at all the anti-2A crap on their TV channel (CBS).

jmace57
April 24, 2013, 09:54 PM
Yeah 2008. But today they cut off all loans to small gun only shops. Still loaning to dicks
..as in sporting goods..or just in general?;)

mister_murphy
April 24, 2013, 09:58 PM
no problem to me. I have the right to pick and choose which companies I want to give my business to, just like they can choose a customer. I wont use them. Its your choice if you do.

Queen_of_Thunder
April 24, 2013, 09:59 PM
My suggestion is to write the Atty General of your state and request that GE Captial be banned from doing in your state. What GE is dping is "red lining" businesses. Red lining is discrimantion and illegal.

GE also issues the CC for Sams Club. So if you have one I ask you to consider closing ypur account.

MAKster
April 24, 2013, 10:06 PM
GE Capital was providing credit to individual purchasers not the gun store. If you bought a gun from Buds you could take out a multi-year loan to finance your purchase. Not very financially wise in my opinion.

Agsalaska
April 24, 2013, 10:10 PM
My suggestion is to write the Atty General of your state and request that GE Captial be banned from doing in your state. What GE is dping is "red lining" businesses. Red lining is discrimantion and illegal.

GE also issues the CC for Sams Club. So if you have one I ask you to consider closing ypur account.
What they are doing is not redlining. That is 100% false.

Queen_of_Thunder
April 24, 2013, 10:35 PM
What they are doing is not redlining. That is 100% false.
Yes it is. They are denying credit to people based upon a defined cultural, non financial characteristic. Its called discrimnation or "red lineing".

browningguy
April 24, 2013, 10:43 PM
Doesn't matter if it's redlining or not. They made their political choice and now they can live with it.

We are currently remodeling our house, had a new roof installed this week and having the kitchen redone next month. I won't even consider any GE branded or manufactured appliance.

Agsalaska
April 24, 2013, 10:46 PM
Yes it is. They are denying credit to people based upon a defined cultural, non financial characteristic. Its called discrimnation or "red lineing".
Sorry, but that is just not accurate. Redlining laws are designed to protect classes of people or businesses that serve people of a protected.class. Gun owners are not a protected class using the applied definition any more than a porn shop.

Agsalaska
April 24, 2013, 10:53 PM
GE Capital probably had an internal battle somewhere in a risk management type department. They concluded that they were no longer safe investments. It was no more of a political statement other than possibly to appease political allies in Washington. In light of the current situation and the risks involved I can understand their position without necesarily agreeing with it. There are other industries and people out there that are most certaily safer long term bets.

Try to see it from their point of view. Say they invest in a company, or in this case probably an individual, that gets caught funneling guns to Chicago gangs, or shoots up a pizza joint, or insert next story here. They would have the potential to be crucified publicly, putting them and their political allies on both sides of the isle at risk. GE is in business to make money, not take risks for political statements.

danez71
April 24, 2013, 11:32 PM
I wont be buying any more ge products! LA times and cnn both have articles on ge stopping all loans to gun shops.

I dont know if it will make a difference or not but GE Capital is different than GE 'products'.

One is a financial company and the other sells consumer products made in China :uhoh:

Queen_of_Thunder
April 24, 2013, 11:42 PM
Sorry, but that is just not accurate. Redlining laws are designed to protect classes of people or businesses that serve people of a protected.class. Gun owners are not a protected class using the applied definition any more than a porn shop.
A porn shop would become a First Amendment case.

Yes it is red lineing.

trailgator
April 25, 2013, 07:58 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Oklacoyotekiller
Yeah 2008. But today they cut off all loans to small gun only shops. Still loaning to dicks


..as in sporting goods..or just in general?

Bravo Jmace!

JohnBT
April 25, 2013, 08:10 AM
Gee, do you think it might be related to the fact that GE Capital is located in...

General Electric Capital Corporation
Company Information

901 Main Ave.
Norwalk , CT, 06851 United States
(203) 840-6300
http://www.gecapital.com

dbb1776
April 25, 2013, 08:11 AM
They received billions in bailout money. Hmmm

45_auto
April 25, 2013, 08:20 AM
What GE is dping is "red lining" businesses.

Yes it is red lineing.

You really ought to google the definition of redlining.

JohnBT
April 25, 2013, 08:25 AM
"They received billions in bailout money"

Nope, not true.

"On the stimulus program, GE received grants of about $200 million out of the $800 billion in government spending. "

"GE never received a bailout from the U.S. government, and did not participate in TARP."

FuriousGeorge
April 25, 2013, 08:37 AM
A porn shop would become a First Amendment case.

Yes it is red lineing.
Red lining applies to protected classes. As mentioned earlier, gun owners are not a protected class. If it can be proven that the majority of legal gun buyers are black, women, American Indian, Hispanic, elderly, or any other protected class as defined by or government, then there could be a case for disparate treatment. We could even qualify for special treatment if that was the case - think senior discounts and minority programs. :)

Agsalaska
April 25, 2013, 08:39 AM
A porn shop would become a First Amendment case.

Yes it is red lineing.
I second the 'you need to google the term redlining.'

dbb1776
April 25, 2013, 08:51 AM
Sorry bout the wrong dollar figure. Ok. They received 200 million in FREE money they never have to pay back from the Feds.

Queen_of_Thunder
April 25, 2013, 08:55 AM
You really ought to google the definition of redlining.
Redlining is the practice of denying or increasing the cost of services, such as banking.


GE is denying banking/credit services to legally operated business based upon the fact that they sell guns. This is no different than denying a miniorty a mortage because of who they are and not on their ability to repay the loan. Its the same thing. It's redlining.

Agsalaska
April 25, 2013, 09:05 AM
Redlining is the practice of denying or increasing the cost of services, such as banking.


GE is denying banking/credit services to legally operated business based upon the fact that they sell guns. This is no different than denying a miniorty a mortage because of who they are and not on their ability to repay the loan. Its the same thing. It's redlining.
It isdifferent. Minorities are a protected class. To be found guilty of redlining you have to be have discriminating practices against a protected class. For example, if i, as a banker, chose not to loan money or invest in businesses that serve minorities, or homosexuals, specifically because they are minorities or homosexuals, while loaning money to the rest of the masses fornthensame purpose, that would be considered redlining. Gun owners and gun businesses are not a protected class.

You can think it is redlining all you want, but you would lose in court.

Agsalaska
April 25, 2013, 09:10 AM
To follow up on that, if a bank made the decision not to fund gun companies or gun owners in minority areas of town while doing so in white areas of town, then you would have a case. But a blanket statement of not funding an entire industry is not redlining.

wojownik
April 25, 2013, 09:16 AM
Not much of a surprise - they backed off such financing for new customers back in 2008. Also, FWIW, they are headquarted in CT (about 20 miles from Sandy Hook), and the father of Adam Lanza is a senior exec with GE.

leapfrog
April 25, 2013, 09:32 AM
You have to watch things you finance like vehicles, a lot of dealers use GE and Lowes also, I know sears home repair also uses them.
Here is a list of their partners that is now on my no go list

http://www.gecapital.com/en/our-company/retail-partners.html

leapfrog
April 25, 2013, 09:52 AM
Plus if they don't go along with Obuma they may loose their "we don't pay taxes" status.

SP2000
April 25, 2013, 10:33 AM
Not a surprise. Look at all the anti-2A crap on their TV channel (CBS).
Its actually NBC.

BigBore44
April 25, 2013, 10:40 AM
Ok redlining or not. Whether its a business to make money or not, whether they are making smart financial moves or not, whether they sell products or give loans, I DON'T CARE. They are GE. They are denying credit to gun shops. They are playing politics to stay on the side of Obama and his legion. So GE gets ZERO $ from us right?

Oklacoyotekiller
April 25, 2013, 10:54 AM
GE capitol is the finacial portion of general electric. They are one and the same. That is like saying chevy and cadillac are seperate companies. Still part of gmc.

JohnBT
April 25, 2013, 11:23 AM
"They received 200 million in FREE money they never have to pay back from the Feds."

Uh, that's what grants are. The $200 million in stimulus grants was spread over several years. It amounted to about 1/10th of 1% of the company's revenues, so it's not like they needed it. But they did their part to help the Pres stimulate the economy. :)


"Additionally, GE never received a bailout from the U.S. government, and did not participate in TARP. GE did willingly participate in other programs widely available to hundreds of financial institutions that were designed to stabilize the economy, including the Temporary Liquidity Guarantee Program (TLGP) and the Commercial Paper Funding Facility (CPFF). In both these programs, taxpayers actually profited from GEs participation through fees and interest."

Beentown
April 25, 2013, 11:31 AM
It is payback for the financial ties. GE is just giving back a small favor. Here is some detailed interactions. The ties that bind....

http://www.forbes.com/sites/beltway/2011/04/08/the-unholy-marriage-of-ge-and-president-obama-at-the-altar-of-industrial-policy/

Look at any major Obama policy initiative — healthcare reform, climate-change regulation, embryonic stem-cell research, infrastructure stimulus, electrical transmission smart-grids — and you’ll find GE has set up shop, angling for a way to pocket government handouts, gain business through mandates, or profit from government regulation.

Agsalaska
April 25, 2013, 02:56 PM
Ok redlining or not. Whether its a business to make money or not, whether they are making smart financial moves or not, whether they sell products or give loans, I DON'T CARE. They are GE. They are denying credit to gun shops. They are playing politics to stay on the side of Obama and his legion. So GE gets ZERO $ from us right?
I personally would not take it that far. They made a decisions to protect their best interests. That is how I expect them to act. I would guess the decision was more risk management than political. If you think about it like that they have a point. There are far safer alternatives for them to invest their capital than the gun industry.

Teachu2
April 25, 2013, 03:04 PM
I was surprised a few months back when I ordered a rifle (not even an evil black one!) from Bud's and the GE credit option was gone from the website. I really enjoyed using their money until the free period was over....

I will be closing all my GE Capital accounts.

Bubbles
April 25, 2013, 03:46 PM
This effort started back in January.

My take is that I don't run on credit anyways. Yeah, I'll never get rich, but not paying interest is awesome.

GAF
April 25, 2013, 09:23 PM
The article I read says that Wells Fargo did this very same thing 10 years ago.

lemaymiami
April 26, 2013, 08:36 AM
I had a customer recently who owns and operates a finance business.. We spoke a bit about the current economy and agreed that the folks running things are way out in left field (we were fishing so the conversation was fairly casual...). As a full time fishing guide I get to meet folks from every walk of life (and every level of society).

The one thing he remarked that really stuck with me is the current state of the lending business (he does lots of work with small businesses that need capital). He said that from his point of view the fortune 500 companies were doing quite well but that the entire small business world was in desperate shape financially and the policies being followed currently seemed designed to create that state of affairs... In that environment it's not surprising to me that GE Capital (or any other similar business) might take an action that was designed to make them look good to our current government types. Not much different than the businesses that suck up to the current administration for a chance to get ahead... Wish it weren't so.

Bubbles
April 26, 2013, 09:12 AM
As an FYI, Chase has no problems working with small firearm-related businesses. Unlike PayPal, Chase's "Quick Pay" service permits fee-free money transfers for firearms.

Deltaboy
April 26, 2013, 09:21 AM
Shame on GE I had done business with them for over the past 30 years. But no more.

splattergun
April 26, 2013, 10:15 AM
GE Capital is under the GE Corporation umbrella. While it is true that GE Capital is different than GE 'products' (there are many divisions of GE) they all answer to, and take their guidance from, the Board of Directors of GE Corp. GE Corp is a stanch supporter of Obama

Is this policy change of GE Cap purely political? Probably not, GE owns lots of lawyers, so there is likely a big liability component as well. But to deny there is any political motivation in this is ignorance. GE Cap wants to fund lots of government projects. Projects like wind farms, military aircraft, and electric vehicle power. And to do so they need to kiss up to the regime in charge.

Agsalaska
April 26, 2013, 10:36 AM
GE Capital is under the GE Corporation umbrella. While it is true that GE Capital is different than GE 'products' (there are many divisions of GE) they all answer to, and take their guidance from, the Board of Directors of GE Corp. GE Corp is a stanch supporter of Obama

Is this policy change of GE Cap purely political? Probably not, GE owns lots of lawyers, so there is likely a big liability component as well. But to deny there is any political motivation in this is ignorance. GE Cap wants to fund lots of government projects. Projects like wind farms, military aircraft, and electric vehicle power. And to do so they need to kiss up to the regime in charge.
So understanding your last paragraph, how can they be criticized for making this decision? Combined with a risk management assessment, they also have to protect their political interests for their shareholders and for their employees. I just don't see whats wrong with what they did. Oh well.

JFtheGR8
April 26, 2013, 11:07 AM
This is simple, don't use them. I'm fed up with ge capital for other reasons so decided to part ways a few weeks ago. Save your cash to buy your guns and gun related articles. If you must use credit then use it for other things you'd use cash for like gas and groceries where you can get double cash back bonuses on a lot of cards. Cash is king though.


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BlisteringSilence
April 27, 2013, 01:04 AM
Its actually NBC.

Not since 2011. NBC is owned by Comcast.

TX1911fan
April 30, 2013, 12:07 PM
I'm canceling my Chevron Texaco credit card as it is issued by GE Capital. In a capitalist society, they have the right to decide with whom to do business. So do I. I won't support them any more.

joeschmoe
April 30, 2013, 02:25 PM
Dupe.

http://www.thehighroad.org/showthread.php?t=714261

TheSaint
April 30, 2013, 02:32 PM
If any of you cancel your GE cards, make sure you tell them WHY. A canceled card in and of itself doesn't mean much. Losing many customers over a specific reason, does.

natman
May 1, 2013, 02:33 AM
First I agree that gun owners are not a protected class. At least not yet.

Second, I did what several posters advised, I looked up "redlining" on Google.
(side note: If you want to base an argument on the precise wording of a definition look it up and provide it yourself. Saying "look it up on Google" is a poor argument.)


redline [ˈrɛdˌlaɪn]
vb (tr)
1. (Economics, Accounting & Finance / Banking & Finance) (esp of a bank or group of banks) to refuse a loan to (a person or country) because of the presumed risks involved
2. (Economics, Accounting & Finance / Banking & Finance) to restrict people's access to goods or services on the basis of the area in which they live
http://www.thefreedictionary.com/redlined

Redlining is the practice of denying, or charging more for, services such as banking, insurance,[2] access to health care,[3] or even supermarkets,[4] or denying jobs to residents in particular, often racially determined,[5] areas.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Redlining

Definition of 'Redlining'
The unethical practice whereby financial institutions make it extremely difficult or impossible for residents of poor inner-city neighborhoods to borrow money, gain approval for a mortgage, take out insurance or gain access to other financial services because of a history of high default rates. In this case, the rejection does not take the individual's qualifications and creditworthiness into account.
http://www.investopedia.com/terms/r/redlining.asp

Please note that none of these definitions include any reference to membership in a protected class, at least not directly. The bold quote is the most relevant, to deny loans based on membership in a group, rather than on the individual's qualifications.

So according to Google, redlining is denying a loan based on membership in a group rather than on individual merit. It's possible that the strict letter of the law is different. If so, please look it up and provide citations.

JohnBT
May 1, 2013, 09:28 AM
"If so, please look it up and provide citations."

"Saying "look it up on Google" is a poor argument"

I agree. :)


"redlining is denying a loan based on membership in a group rather than on individual merit"

I think you need to look at the original term - redlining. They took a map and drew a red line around certain neighborhoods or areas and refused to do business there. Sort of like a pizza place that won't deliver to everyone in town, but only to certain neighborhoods. The residents of a redlined neighborhood make up the group - all of the residents, black, white, whatever - if you live there they won't do business with you.

Unless GE is refusing to loan money to some gun businesses in a town and not others, I don't see that redlining applies.

natman
May 1, 2013, 10:43 AM
"If so, please look it up and provide citations."

"Saying "look it up on Google" is a poor argument"

I agree. :)


"redlining is denying a loan based on membership in a group rather than on individual merit"

I think you need to look at the original term - redlining. They took a map and drew a red line around certain neighborhoods or areas and refused to do business there. Sort of like a pizza place that won't deliver to everyone in town, but only to certain neighborhoods. The residents of a redlined neighborhood make up the group - all of the residents, black, white, whatever - if you live there they won't do business with you. Unless GE is refusing to loan money to some gun businesses in a town and not others, I don't see that redlining applies.

While I agree that in the original meaning the group was defined by geographic location, in the broader sense the injustice was caused by denying credit to a group instead of individual merit. So if you don't want call it "redlining" because the discrimination isn't geographic I'm open to suggestions as to what this new breed of discrimination should be called.

It's still wrong by any other name.

hemiram
May 3, 2013, 02:46 AM
The only connection I've had with GE capital is I've used the "CareCredit" for a my dog's vet bills over the last few years. One had Cushing's disease and the medicine he was on was expensive, as was the test that he needed to determine the dosage of it. I liked the interest free within 6 months to pay. I won't have them paid off for about 6 months, and I'll have to make a decision about using it again at that time. It's not looking like I will.

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