most accurate 9mm under 2000


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fanof9mil
April 27, 2013, 08:22 PM
My knowledge of many brands of handguns is limited. I have a Glock 17 and a
Beretta Px4 Storm SC. I really enjoy both of them. I am in the market for the most accurate range gun I can find up to 2000. Any actual test data to support accuracy claims is a bonus. Can you tell me which pistol is considered to be the most accurate 9mm, up to $2000. Thanks for your time.

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Byrd666
April 27, 2013, 08:35 PM
Pretty much any modern pistol is going to be accurate. It really depends on the shooter.

sota
April 27, 2013, 08:46 PM
agreed.

I'll say you should look at an H&K P30L. google search will reveal tons of reviews. pistol-training.com did a torture test (on the non-L verison though) that is quite impressive. you can see what his accuracy was like with that pistol. the L's are a touch more accurate due to the longer barrel.

edit: full disclosure...
I personally own 2 P30's (non-L) and love them to death.

plexreticle
April 27, 2013, 09:07 PM
S&W 952 is accurate.

9mm wouldn't be my first choice for accuracy though.

highlander 5
April 27, 2013, 09:20 PM
S&w 1911

Peter M. Eick
April 27, 2013, 09:29 PM
Sig 210. I bought my first one used for about 1650. The second one was new at just shy of 2000.

Do some searches. It is "generally accepted" as the most accurate production 9mm out there.

Thompsoncustom
April 27, 2013, 09:54 PM
This:

http://czcustom.com/images/Accu-Shadow-Bushing_0026a.jpg

CZ Custom's CZ 75 SP01 ACCU shadow full details here:
http://czcustom.com/cz75sp01accushadow.aspx

Theraztastic
April 27, 2013, 10:05 PM
One thing that i've learned through out years of shooting is that it has more to do with the shooter than the gun. And for me, a smooth trigger makes for accurate shots. I have owned a few 9mms and it may sound silly but I am the most accurate with my Kahr CM9. It is a pocket pistol but the trigger is butter smooth. I wouldn't drop $2,000 on a 9mm pistol. I would round up some handguns and take a trip to the range to see what you shoot accurately. You can get a good 9mm for under $1,000 easily.

beatledog7
April 27, 2013, 10:56 PM
In my view of the shooting world, two grand is too much to spend on a gun that shoots a round as generic as 9mm Luger. For me, that's a working cartridge. Two grand is esoteric cartridge territory.

My 9mm pistols are CZs. They can be had (or use-ta could) for around a 1/4 of that. There are lots of very fine 9mm pistols that cost more, but none I've used shoots better for me. Every shooter is different, of course.

Someday I might own H&Ks or Sigs, but probably in .45ACP or 357 Sig. The most likely next 9mm in my possession will be a Glock. I like my G22 Gen4 very well, and I think it needs company.

orionengnr
April 27, 2013, 11:02 PM
If you have $2000 to spend on a 9mm, look at the HK P7M8 (single stack) and the P7M13 (double stack).

P7s have a fixed barrel and an excellent trigger and are "inherently accurate". P7s are high quality handguns and are no longer made.

They have achieved collector status and are quite pricey these days...but they are worth every dime you pay (provided you buy one in good shape) and they will only go up in value.

You will probably pay ~$1500 for a very nice M8 and up to $2500 for a similar M13.

clang
April 27, 2013, 11:04 PM
S&W Did a gun they called the PPC 9mm some years ago. If I remember correctly, it was only available to LE and came with a 5" or 6" barrel.

Used 6" guns are going for around $2k right now, I doubt you will find a more accurate gun anywhere.

C0untZer0
April 27, 2013, 11:31 PM
You might be able to get a Tanfoglio Gold Match, the long slide with the 6" barrel - for under 2K. It's a competition target pistol, it's pretty accurate.

http://www.thehighroad.org/attachment.php?attachmentid=173413&stc=1&d=1350181742

I'll vouch for the accuracy of the P7, but it's a duty firearm, not a target pistol.

This topic has been discussed here:

http://www.thehighroad.org/showthread.php?t=680557

wally247
April 27, 2013, 11:42 PM
Well if you want to spend that amount of money you could go custom 1911 in 9mm.

rcmodel
April 27, 2013, 11:42 PM
Combat Tupperware of any brand is supposed to be 'combat accurate' like 4"-6" groups at 25 yards.
About any decent SIG will cut that in half.

Any decent 9mm 1911 should halve that again.

The S&W 952 Match gun should put them all in the same hole if you can.
But it is discontinued now I think.

http://www.dayattherange.com/?p=581

rc

SwampWolf
April 27, 2013, 11:43 PM
S&W 952 is accurate.

Very much so.

9mm wouldn't be my first choice for accuracy though.

Me either.

rcmodel
April 27, 2013, 11:49 PM
Me neither either.

But, he didn't ask that.

rc

Jim Watson
April 27, 2013, 11:59 PM
9mm is tricky on accuracy. You must have good ammo, no sense setting up at 25 metres or 50 yards with your two kilobuck match gun and Slobbovian Econoball from Cheapmart.

I think the AMU Berettas get Sierra FMJ because hardball is required.
Most PPC shooters use one or another name brand JHP.
A friend in the Governor's 20 says Remington or Zero JHP will do ok in careful reloads.
He has a supply of Hydrashok that is most accurate in his S&W PPC 9.
That gun was more accurate than a 952 in side by side tests. Great gun if you can find one a LE shooter is selling.


Of course a clean K38 will do at least as well for a lot less money, but it's not a 9 Emm.

bluetopper
April 28, 2013, 12:47 AM
I have a Fusion 1911 9mm Longslide and I'll put it up against anything anyone can come up with.

9mmepiphany
April 28, 2013, 03:41 AM
This is a tuned X-5 Allaround that did an honest 1.10" group, with lead reloads (122gr @ 1000fps), at 50 yards handheld off a rest. Last I checked, it is for sale for less than $2000. If you are interested, sent me a PM and I'll check with the owner

http://i26.photobucket.com/albums/c119/Grayguns/X5groupjpg.jpg

ArchAngelCD
April 28, 2013, 04:00 AM
I agree, if you're looking for an accurate 9mm I would go with a 1911 platform. You might want to take a look at something in a 9mm 1911 from a custom shop. Maybe even a Browning Hi-Power with some work done on it like reworking the trigger would be good too.

For something out of the box there are many SIG pistols which are very accurate too. Sig, S&W, STI and H&K all make accurate handguns as does several other manufacturers.

fanof9mil
April 28, 2013, 07:53 AM
thank you all very much for your input. You've given me much to digest. I had looked at videos of the new Sig P210s. Seems there is a plethora of sites claiming it is the most accurate pistol. However, I've been looking into the new CZ Accu Shadow. It has been on the CZ site for many months but I've yet to find a single person that has one, or any of the credible YOUTUBE reviewers who have shot one. No video reviews either. If anyone knows of one, please send me a link. I'm headed to check out many of the referrals now. Plz keep any input coming. Blessings to all for your time and information.

CZ is the only manufacturer I know much about their Custom Shop. The Shadow Target Custom lists for around 1300 and the Accu Shadow is $1600. Supposedly, all the Custom Shop work is what gives their accuracy. My son shoots Sig. He loves it and says the quality if phenomenal. If not the single stack P210, does Sig do extensive custom shop work on a 226

Sav .250
April 28, 2013, 08:59 AM
The weapon is just the ......instrument. There are other factors that are in the mix as well.

Pete D.
April 28, 2013, 09:04 AM
Sig 210. I bought my first one used for about 1650. The second one was new at just shy of 2000.
Do some searches. It is "generally accepted" as the most accurate production 9mm out there.

Agree. The gun is legendary. Getting harder to find as time passes.
The S&W 952...a take off on their own legendary gun, the model 52. If the 952 shoots at all like the 52, that would be a good choice.
Pete

Blackstone
April 28, 2013, 11:36 AM
An old Sig P210 is the epitome of accuracy from a service pistol imo

Peter M. Eick
April 28, 2013, 12:26 PM
As others have said, ammunition is critical. I found that I could change my groups in my 210's by half just by using different bullets. 9mm is very sensitive to change when it comes to accuracy.

I suppose (based on opinion only) that short cases and high pressure contribute to this because 40S&W is another round that is not known for accuracy while the 38 super and 10mm both are known for accuracy. All 4 rounds operate at high pressures, yet the two long cases are known accurate and the two short ones are more difficult to get to the same levels of accuracy.

BCRider
April 28, 2013, 02:34 PM
Are you wedded to the idea of a 9mm semi auto for this sort of shooting? 9mm semis are not the sort of gun that immediately jumps into mind for shooting serious slow paced bullseye accuracy stuff.

One option that jumps to my mind is a PPC modified revolver. Many of the PPC adapted revolvers would likely shoot well within the group sizes of most semi autos. Especially if using precision reloads for greater consistency.

Next option would be a match grade 1911 in .45acp. At one point I got to shoot a very nice STI Rangemaster that produced one of the tighter free style groups that I'd ever shot. And with the second magazine I managed an even better group. A truly magical gun.

Despite the fact that rc' said that combat handguns are generally only expected to produce 4 inch groups at 25 yards it's been my observation that our average CZ's, Sigs, Glocks and others manage to do more like 3 inch groups in very skilled hands. And in some cases perhaps in the 2 to 2.5 inch range when shot with skill and feel from a rest. Shooting from a rest isn't an instant guarantee of accuracy as I found out, it's a skill as elusive as free style standing to do it well.

This sort of performance is more than enough for any speed related matches. But simply not good enough for full on bullseye matches. For proper bullseye I'd want to look at a more target style gun such as the revolvers or precision all metal guns such as that STI. Or that Sig P210 which does have some reports floating around the web to indicate that it's an above average shooter.

It's also pretty fair to say that you'll need to get into some serious reloading to truly get the most out of the tiny little 9mm loads for consistency. With so little powder and so little case volume the consistency of the powder charge weights and seating depths of the bullets will be critical. Likely more critical than what a typical progressive reloading setup can guarantee. Going with a revolver and .38Spl loads would somewhat reduce the effects in pressure from these same minor variations.

9mmepiphany
April 28, 2013, 03:57 PM
It's also pretty fair to say that you'll need to get into some serious reloading to truly get the most out of the tiny little 9mm loads for consistency. With so little powder and so little case volume the consistency of the powder charge weights and seating depths of the bullets will be critical. Likely more critical than what a typical progressive reloading setup can guarantee.
While I'm sure Bruce is pretty careful when he reloads, I'm pretty sure he reloaded their 10k rounds of Bianchi Cup practice ammo on a Dillon progressive press.

He and Mickey Fowler were shooting ~3" handheld standing groups with the guns at 50 yards during practice with their X-5 Allarounds

browningguy
April 28, 2013, 04:24 PM
Actually $2,000 isn't bad at all to spend for a really accurate pistol, keeping in mind that 99% of the shooters out there don't have any idea what accurate is.

The Tanfoglio Gold Match, Sig P210, Smith 952 would all fit your requirements and are all capable of winning a bullseye match right out of the box.

fanof9mil
April 28, 2013, 05:39 PM
I'm learning more as the posts continue. Thank you all. I specified 9 mil as that is what I have in Glock and Beretta. I haven't shot .40 or .45. In regards to the ammo being so important, is it easier to have consistent placement with OTC ammo if it is .45? If so, possibly I will need to seek opinions regarding the accuracy of .45 handgun. Possibly I need to visit our local range and rent some .45 pistols to see how the muzzle flip and recoil are.

Plz keep the input coming. You are all being very helpful. Thank you.

ArchAngelCD
April 28, 2013, 07:04 PM
CZ is the only manufacturer I know much about their Custom Shop. The Shadow Target Custom lists for around 1300 and the Accu Shadow is $1600. Supposedly, all the Custom Shop work is what gives their accuracy. My son shoots Sig. He loves it and says the quality if phenomenal. If not the single stack P210, does Sig do extensive custom shop work on a 226
Even though S&W gets knocked for their recent line guns they have a custom shop that's rated extremely high, their Performance Center. There are highly skilled craftsmen there and they know how to make a great gun.

S&W had a Pro Series of handguns which are a mix between regular production and Performance Center guns. The Pro Series of handguns are very accurate and at a more reasonable price than from the custom shop. Of course you can send any S&W gun to the Performance Center for work. Take a look at This Pistol (http://www.smith-wesson.com/webapp/wcs/stores/servlet/Product4_750001_750051_766209_-1_757895_757775_757751_ProductDisplayErrorView_Y) and tell us what you think?

giggitygiggity
April 28, 2013, 07:40 PM
My Sig P226E2 is a tackdriver. I paid $625 for it. You might be able to find guns slightly more accurate, but even then it will be only a millimeter or two of difference and definitely not worth the cost difference.

GregGry
April 29, 2013, 12:23 AM
What good is a gun that will shoot 2 inch groups at 50 yards if the best the owner can shoot is 4 inch groups at 25 yards? If your capable of shooting sub 3 inch groups consistently with a standard pistol at 25 yards, it might be worth while to get a custom gun made. If you can't shoot anywhere near that, spending that much on a gun will get you very limited return.

Let me explain: a super trigger and a long sight radius will take a average joe and make him shoot much better then they could shoot a sub compact pistol. However the accuracy gained has more to do with the light trigger and long sight radius covering up bad habits then the guns "increased inheret accuracy". There is video evidence of people shooting box stock Glocks and other pistols at 150 to 250 yards and hitting targets consistently. This is with a standard sight radius and non "match" triggers. Shooting handguns 50 yards and beyond accurately is not something that just happens because you have a high end gun. It comes from having the fundamentals down 100%, and having practiced a lot. Nice triggers and supper accurate "match" parts won't cover up mistakes in form at 100 yards, like they will at 10 to 25 yards.

If you want a accurate gun, all conventional pistols on the market will likely out shoot your capabilities with good ammo. If your looking for bench rest shooting at long range you might as well pickup a long slide 1911 or a long barreled revolver, both will make quick work of 100 yard targets. I have fired all sorts of single shot pistols (some in rifle calibers) and without a doubt good pistols ment for long range can print amazing groups at 300 yards. They should be considered short barreled rifles more then anything. I personally prefer to use rifles for long range work and pistols to inside 150 yards.

You need to be honest with yourself and establish how accurate you can shoot a standard common revolver or semi auto pistol at 25 yards. If your not sub 4 inch groups all day then rather then spending 2k on a pistol spend 1,300 on ammo for a 700 gun and practice until you can. If you feel the gun your shooting needs a better trigger, have one put in. Or if you are a regular 25 yard one hole shooter, go get yourself a long slide 1911 made to your specifications.

Certaindeaf
April 29, 2013, 01:10 AM
This is a tuned X-5 Allaround that did an honest 1.10" group, with lead reloads (122gr @ 1000fps), at 50 yards handheld off a rest..
Yeabut 9mm isn't accurate. lolz

9mmepiphany
April 29, 2013, 03:48 AM
Yeabut 9mm isn't accurate. lolz
I keep hearing that, but all the military records previously held by .45 ACP chambered 1911s are now held by 9mm M9s

Infidel4life11
April 29, 2013, 04:00 AM
I've been on steel at 100yards with a beretta 92. My 2cents would be the cz/eaa witness elite match thingy or sig. Glock 17L or 34 with match barrel and trigger time would get you there for have the $$$

ku4hx
April 29, 2013, 05:34 AM
For $2,000, you can buy an entry level 9mm in 1911 platform and have it tuned to be a certified tack driver.

If you mean a production target type then a Smith 952 is likely your best bet.

If you mean a combat weapon (standard garden variety Glock, CZ, Springfield and etc.) you're likely to find they'll all shoot pretty much the same and have acceptable "combat accuracy".

JohnBT
April 29, 2013, 08:13 AM
"What good is a gun that will shoot 2 inch groups at 50 yards if the best the owner can shoot is 4 inch groups at 25 yards?"

A lot of good; you can learn that the wild shots are all your own fault. You have to add the shooter's wobble to the mechanical ability of the gun. Look at it this way, if a gun can repeatedly shoots perfect groups of 0.00", then any variation is shooter's wobble. If a gun will repeatedly shoot 2" groups from a fixture, then you add on the shooter's wobble. If that gun only shoots 4" groups, what do you get when you add in the shooter's wobble? Even bigger groups.

My Sig X-5 TAC is very accurate (and easy to shoot and has night sights) and was only a little more than half the price of my old Swiss Army surplus P-210.

ku4hx
April 29, 2013, 08:23 AM
"What good is a gun that will shoot 2 inch groups at 50 yards if the best the owner can shoot is 4 inch groups at 25 yards?"

A lot of good; you can learn that the wild shots are all your own fault. You have to add the shooter's wobble to the mechanical ability of the gun. Look at it this way, if a gun can repeatedly shoots perfect groups of 0.00", then any variation is shooter's wobble. If a gun will repeatedly shoot 2" groups from a fixture, then you add on the shooter's wobble. If that gun only shoots 4" groups, what do you get when you add in the shooter's wobble? Even bigger groups.

My Sig X-5 TAC is very accurate (and easy to shoot and has night sights) and was only a little more than half the price of my old Swiss Army surplus P-210.
+1 A shooter being less accurate than his gun is certainly preferable to the gun being less accurate than the shooter. I can learn to shoot an accurate gun well, but if the gun lacks accuracy potential, no amount of practice will make the gun get any better.

GregGry
April 29, 2013, 09:59 AM
If you can't shoot a 4 inch group at 25 yards with a standard production pistol, your not going to magically shoot a 1 to 2 inch group with a high end gun. A high end gun will make a bad shooter better, but spending 2,000$ to get 6 to 10 inch groups with a standard pistol at 25 yards down to 4 to 6 inches (what a excellent shot can do with a box stock gun) doesn't make sense to me.

Which is why I am saying accuracy of a handgun is not a issue unless you are either A) shooting from a vise or a rest, and B) are capable of shooting sub 4 inch groups with a standard gun. I know more people that can shoot sub 4 inch groups at 25 yards with box stock guns then guys who have guns that shoot sub 2 inch groups at 25 yards, that can shoot anywhere near that.

My main accurate pistol is a czsp01 with recent 400$ of custom work to it. I have trained 30 people to shoot pistols with it since it was finished, and most will shoot 3 to 3.5 inch groups at 21 feet with it (first time shooters). When I let the people shoot their own pistol they will often shoot 3.5 to 4 inch groups, without significant difference (other then flyers caused by a flinch). Even experienced shooters will shoot my gun better then many box stock guns they might have, but we are not talking going from 3 inch groups at 21 feet down to 3/4 inch one hole groups. This gun has the best SAO trigger short of a full custom 1911, and it's not turning good shots into bullseye shooters. A 20% decrease in group size when you shoot big groups isn't as good as a 1% decrease in group size when you shoot tight groups already.

What you guys are overlooking is that virtually all guns made now are capable of shooting more accurately then the person holding them. And how a particular gun fits a persons hand, trigger reach, sight setup, etc will do by far more to affect accuracy then the differences between pistols "claimed accuracy". The OP could print better groups at 25 to 50 yards with a box stock XDM pistol then a 2000$ custom 1911 because the pistol works better for their hand. I know I personally can shoot certain guns better then others simply because I have large hands and short trigger reaches makes it difficult to press the trigger smoothly. Yet another person that's a good shot might not shoot the big frame pistols I typically shoot, as well as I do.

Which is why I don't buy into inherent accuracy claims of pistols, and spending money on something because of accuracy claims has no meaning unless your already a dead on shooter. Then again I am the guy at the range that outshoots your average person with iron sights on a rifle at 50 yards, with my 44mag revolver or 22 converted CZ. Had I spent 2k on a 1911 back in the day instead of on a 400$ gun, 1400 on ammo, and 200 on training, I would be a average shot with a 2,000 dollar gun, instead of a very good shot. I get the whole "I want the gun to be way more accurate then me so I have myself to blame". The problem is the limiting factor on handgun shooting is the shooter themselves. And until the individual progresses with their skills, they will never be as accurate as they could be.

One of the problems with the whole "buy a high end gun and work with it" mentality is that until you have shot a lot, and tried out a lot of different pistol platforms, your taking a shot in the dark on buying a pistol that will work for you. If you can shoot well enough to claim you need the ability of a high end gun, you have a good idea of what platforms work for you already. You wouldn't be on here asking a question like "what's the most accurate handgun", that suggests a individual who doesn't have enough experiance with shooting handguns to know what platform works for THEM. What platform works for a individual is more important then what any particular gun can shoot when put in a vise. I shoot my 44 mag revolver with 8 3/8ths barrel better with cheap ammo, then any custom 1911 I have ever shot (and I have played with a lot of them). Yet without a doubt the high end 1911s I have shot will print better vise rested groups. Moral of this story is don't be the guy with bragging about how accurate a gun is, and buying one for that reason, unless you have the skills to back it up.

GregGry
April 29, 2013, 10:38 AM
A lot of good; you can learn that the wild shots are all your own fault. You have to add the shooter's wobble to the mechanical ability of the gun. Look at it this way, if a gun can repeatedly shoots perfect groups of 0.00", then any variation is shooter's wobble. If a gun will repeatedly shoot 2" groups from a fixture, then you add on the shooter's wobble. If that gun only shoots 4" groups, what do you get when you add in the shooter's wobble? Even bigger groups.

Most handguns will fire sub 3 inch groups at 25 yards. A high end handgun might shoot sub 1 inch from a vise. In theory you would think this would automatically mean if you shoot 5 inch groups at 25 yards with say a xdm, that going to a custom gun that shoots 1 inch will give you 3 inch groups. Yet this never happens as many people think. There is more to shooting accurate then how accurate the gun is. I have had shots land straight through a 1/2 bullseye at 150 yards with my 44. This is a rare exception and I couldn't do it consistently with any stretch of the imagination. Consistency is all that matters for accuracy. You can shoot low left, and still shoot a one hole group if you do it consistently.

The arc of movement (shooters wobble) is not as big of a issue as many make it out to be. Pistol to pistol this will only account for a very minuet difference. Sure depending on how well the pistol fits your hand could help minimize it, but this is a issue all good shooters have to work with. If you have your sights aligned properly and you pull the trigger when they are at the same point of movement you can eliminate its effect drastically. Again this is stuff that matters more then "inherent accuracy".

Blackstone
April 29, 2013, 10:55 AM
Indeed, the displacement of shot due to natural shooters' wobble is miniscule compared to the effects of disrupted sight alignment. I was always taught not to shoot at a point but at an area. Accept that the sights will move slightly, and concentrate on getting that good trigger squeeze.

Peter M. Eick
April 29, 2013, 11:08 AM
Greggry,

I feel you are downplaying the biggest part of the issue. Target shooting is really a mental sport in my experience. Yes physical toning is important but I feel from my competition days it was more in the head and eyes not body. Most shooters I see at the range can get better if they shoot better equipment and know it is capable of better. Many shooters plateau early because they just assume it is the gun and not them. High end guns eliminate this problem.

If you accept that premise, then you can see the reason for wanting 210's or Baer 1.5" guns like I buy. I want to know that if I miss, it is either my crappy reloads or me. So I tend to take my time, build careful reloads so when I miss I don't blame it on the gun. I found myself doing that on some guns. I would just say to myself "well the 40 is known to be less accurate" when it may have been me.

With my 210's or my 1.5" Baer's, when I pull a 9 or 8 or heaven forbid a 5, then I know it was me. Not the gun, not the ammo, not the wind, but me. I can't use that mental crutch of saying it was just the cheap 9mm.

This is why I shoot 50 shot groups, not 5. Put a box on target at 50 ft or 50 yrds and you will really see what a gun and you can do. I have seen guys buckle down and shoot some really good 5 shot pistol groups. Bragging groups. Now how often do they go to pot after the first mag change? It takes a lot of concentration to put 50 shots on target and not have issues with the mental games. This is where a 210 or Baer 1.5" gun comes into play. It forces you to buckle down, realize the 5 was you and focus harder.

So to the original poster, I would advocate that you buy the best possible equipment you can afford and then a bit more. You need to have unwavering confidence in your hardware and then focus you the mental aspects of the game.

5-SHOTS
April 29, 2013, 11:36 AM
In not particular order: HK USP Elite, Tanfoglio (EAA Witness) Match, Glock 17L, SIG-Sauer P226SL Sport, STI Rangemaster II, STI Trojian, CZ SP-01 Custom, S&W M&P Pro Series.

Certaindeaf
April 29, 2013, 11:52 AM
I keep hearing that, but all the military records previously held by .45 ACP chambered 1911s are now held by 9mm M9s
I hear you.. I was being facetious. One inch groups at fifty yards with lead handloads off sandbags is about as accurate as can be.

JohnBT
April 29, 2013, 03:00 PM
"disrupted sight alignment"

Sounds like the shooter is letting the gun wobble around, doesn't it?



"verb: wabble - waver - sway - shake - vacillate - stagger"

Potatohead
April 29, 2013, 09:32 PM
So what do all of you "dont shoot 9 for accuracy" shoot for accuracy? just curious

Urban_Redneck
April 29, 2013, 10:43 PM
http://img3.findthebest.com/sites/default/files/495/media/images/Korth_Semi-Auto_Pistol_2.jpg

Maybe you could find a used one ;)

bc1023
April 29, 2013, 11:39 PM
People keep suggesting the P210, but they are very hard to find under $2K these days, unless they are really rough. Most the Swiss models are $2500 and up (some way up, depending on configuration) The base new German model is about $2000 or slightly more.

Here are mine. I've got three Swiss models and a new German Target model. If you can find a used model under $2K, that's the one to go for. :)


http://i1209.photobucket.com/albums/cc398/cutillo_2011/001-5_zps6ea5202e.jpg (http://s1209.photobucket.com/user/cutillo_2011/media/001-5_zps6ea5202e.jpg.html)

http://i1209.photobucket.com/albums/cc398/cutillo_2011/027-3_zps494e9667.jpg (http://s1209.photobucket.com/user/cutillo_2011/media/027-3_zps494e9667.jpg.html)

bc1023
April 29, 2013, 11:42 PM
As for the Korth auto above, there's a used example on Gunbroker for nearly $10,000. ;)

bc1023
April 29, 2013, 11:50 PM
Here are some of my most accurate 9mms, though most of these are over $2000, some well over.

Sig X-Five L1, Sig P210 Legend Target, Smith & Wesson 952-1, Sphinx Competitor, HK P9s Sport, Korth Autopistol, Pardini GT9, Wolf SV Ultramatic


http://i1209.photobucket.com/albums/cc398/cutillo_2011/031_zpsa1de0815.jpg (http://s1209.photobucket.com/user/cutillo_2011/media/031_zpsa1de0815.jpg.html)






Like I said before, if you can find a nice used P210 under that price, go for it. Other than that, my vote would be to get a Sig X-Five Competition model. They are the same as the one pictured above, but lack the Nill grips and adjustable trigger. It doesn't need an adjustable trigger. I've had been for years and haven't touched the adjustments. The factory setting is outstanding.

The Competition model can be had brand new for under $2K. :cool:





.

Jim Watson
April 29, 2013, 11:56 PM
If you read Gun Tests on the subject, you wouldn't look for one.


As an old guy name of Cooper said, "The dispersion of the weapon is added to the dispersion of the shooter. Therefore it can only be desired that the weapon have no dispersion at all."

If you want accurate shooting, you have to have accurate equipment.
No sense in getting carried away with it, Gil Hebard said you could make it to NRA Expert with GOOD stock (S&W M41, High Standard Supermatic, Gold Cup) guns before actually needing full custom.

ku4hx
April 30, 2013, 06:18 AM
So what do all of you "dont shoot 9 for accuracy" shoot for accuracy? just curious
How accurate is accurate; what's you're standard? I have no problem getting fine accuracy from a 9mm, but since I load my own, I tailor ammunition to the gun.

Here's my old 1970 vintage BHP at 15 yards I believe it was ... full magazine, 13 shots.

TAKtical
April 30, 2013, 06:40 AM
Just about any standard pistol will be more accurate than the average shooter. A gun isnt going to make you accurate. With rifles shooting out to 1000 yards, having super accurate equipment is a must. Shooting pistols at 25-50 yards, you can be extremely accurate with most popular full size pistols including glocks. If I was looking for an accurate, expensive, 9mm, Id be looking for a STI Tactical 5.0

JohnBT
April 30, 2013, 09:51 AM
"A gun isnt going to make you accurate."

An inacurate gun certainly isn't going to make anybody accurate.

I think I'd rather err on the side of having too much gun for my talents rather than on the side of having an average, so-so, mediocre accuracy gun. Average guns have their uses and I own a bunch, but the OP asked about "most accurate".

John

P.S. - And thanks for the Cooper quote. Dispersion of the shooter was what I was looking for earlier when I said wobble.

"As an old guy name of Cooper said, "The dispersion of the weapon is added to the dispersion of the shooter. Therefore it can only be desired that the weapon have no dispersion at all.""

greyling22
April 30, 2013, 10:00 AM
Get something with a single action trigger for sure. I vote for a high end cz pattern gun because I have firsthand experience with them being accurate and I like the ergonomics better than the 1911 pattern guns.

I have had great success with the $1300 cz-75 tactical sport, and almost as much success with the $500 witness elite match. I would assume that the the higher end witnesses are even better. But I'm sure there are other quality guns.

Potatohead
April 30, 2013, 10:43 AM
good gosh bc1023..where do you work and are they hiring?

Potatohead
April 30, 2013, 10:47 AM
[/QHow accurate is accurate; what's you're standard? I have no problem getting fine accuracy from a 9mm, but since I load my own, I tailor ammunition to the gun.

geez. i dont know...i just try and hit the middle of the target but im usually just within 3 or 4 "...would i be more accurate with a heavier round than 115s? or is that not how it works exactly?

Potatohead
April 30, 2013, 10:50 AM
Here's my old 1970 vintage BHP at 15 yards I believe it was ... full magazine, 13 shots.

you need to bring it down a little. you're hittin a tad high..



that was a joke by the way

JDR
April 30, 2013, 01:39 PM
Last Friday I had a chance to shoot.a Wilson Professional chambered in 9mm; the 15 yd. groups I got made me very happy. You would need more like $3K for one of those.

SharpsDressedMan
April 30, 2013, 07:54 PM
SIG P210's were originally supplied with targets fired at the factory at 50 yards! Those targets looked like targets from other guns fired at 25 yards. I don't know about the new ones, but I'd give them a shot (pun intended).

bc1023
April 30, 2013, 10:01 PM
SIG P210's were originally supplied with targets fired at the factory at 50 yards! Those targets looked like targets from other guns fired at 25 yards. I don't know about the new ones, but I'd give them a shot (pun intended).

It's actually 50 meters, nearly 55 yards.

mljdeckard
April 30, 2013, 10:14 PM
I think the cutoff for accuracy comes a lot cheaper than $2000. And to be perfectly honest, if anyone tells me that service-grade 9mms aren't more accurate than THEY are, I tell them to prove it.

Service pistols are not (nor are they intended to be) high-accuracy weapons.

Potatohead
April 30, 2013, 10:20 PM
Service pistols are not (nor are they intended to be) high-accuracy weapons.

really? that seems strange

bc1023
April 30, 2013, 10:38 PM
I think the cutoff for accuracy comes a lot cheaper than $2000. And to be perfectly honest, if anyone tells me that service-grade 9mms aren't more accurate than THEY are, I tell them to prove it.

Service pistols are not (nor are they intended to be) high-accuracy weapons.

I don't agree with anything here.

There is no sense bringing the shooter into the equation when discussing the accuracy of the GUN itself. We all know what the real world is, but if you want to measure the accuracy of a pistol, you need to remove the shooter. Otherwise, the discussion has no point.

A ransom rest is required.

Yes, some pistols (even service pistols) are intended to be very accurate. If you don't think so, I suggest you start doing some research.

tarosean
April 30, 2013, 10:40 PM
Service pistols are not (nor are they intended to be) high-accuracy weapons.

Let me guess your a Glock shooter?

mljdeckard
April 30, 2013, 11:48 PM
Like what?

SharpsDressedMan
April 30, 2013, 11:49 PM
I've got a Glock 29 that happens to be highly accurate, so why would you make that remark? I know I am not the only one, as my buddy has a G27 that is the same. Glocks might even be more on the high accuracy end than not.

tarosean
May 1, 2013, 12:01 AM
I've got a Glock 29 that happens to be highly accurate, so why would you make that remark?

I've owned three, still own 2, and none of them have been that accurate even from a ransom.

JohnBT
May 1, 2013, 12:48 AM
"Glocks might even be more on the high accuracy end than not."

How many Glocks have won a bullseye championship?
Will a Glock even hold the 10-ring at 50 yards?

Or maybe we have a different idea of high accuracy. The old P-210 factory standard was a group under 2" at 50 meters/55 yds.

TAKtical
May 1, 2013, 01:21 AM
Just completely missing the point here. My glock 17 is capable of same hole groups at 25 yards from a ransom rest. Im just not that accurate. I have an extremely hard time believing that there are shooters here that are being limited by the accuracy of their pistol. Not saying its not possible, just saying I doubt it. I could be wrong, and I know there are some serious competition guys here that only shoot bullseye with match ammo. But in my experience the shooter is usually to blame for poor accuracy.

9mmepiphany
May 1, 2013, 02:10 AM
I have an extremely hard time believing that there are shooters here that are being limited by the accuracy of their pistol. Not saying its not possible, just saying I doubt it. I could be wrong, and I know there are some serious competition guys here that only shoot bullseye with match ammo. But in my experience the shooter is usually to blame for poor accuracy.
Just off the top of my head, I'll name 3. None of them at bullseye shooters, but they are all top tier USPSA shooters...so while their guns are highly tuned, they aren't paper punching guns.

Bruce Gray, Mickey Fowler and Mike Dalton...I've never personally seen him shoot, but I would think Doug Koenig would also be limited.

If these guys are shooting a 1" gun and getting 3" groups at 50 yards, a 3-4" gun would open that group up to 5"...which means you'd be dropping shots out of the X-ring on the Bianchi Target

GregGry
May 1, 2013, 05:24 AM
An inacurate gun certainly isn't going to make anybody accurate.

I think I'd rather err on the side of having too much gun for my talents rather than on the side of having an average, so-so, mediocre accuracy gun. Average guns have their uses and I own a bunch, but the OP asked about "most accurate".

The OP comments makes it seem like be has minimal pistol experiance (could be wrong). Spending 2k on a gun capable of firing 1 inch groups at 25 yards and not putting a few thousand rounds through it will not give you the same accuracy as buying a good gun for 600 to 1000$ and spending 600-700$ on ammo/range fees and 300-400 on training. Besides, I haven't shot a handgun that wasn't capable of a 6 inch group at 25 yards (not from a rest), and that is beyond the ability of most shooters. Maybe you guys hang out at bullseye meets every time your at the range but in the 8 years I have been shooting pistols and thousands of people I have seen shoot, most never shoot anywhere near 6 inch groups at 25 yards.

I spend a fair time shooting and I can say I have outshot everyone (other then 4 people) out of the hundreds of people I have been around at the range in the last few years. This is with a czspo1 in 9mm and 22, a 44mag taurus cheap revolver, and my glock 17. None of those guns can shoot in the ball park of many of the 2,000+ 1911s I have seen guys use. I don't bet money but I would bet 100$ I will outshoot 9 out of the next 10 guys I run into at the range, that have 2,000$ + guns. I am not trying to be cocky here, and I am not anywhere near a elite shooter. Most people do not posses the pratice or training to be accurate enough to claim they need a custom gun.

To much emphasis is put onto the gun being the controlling factor in accuracy. That's why companies put "match grade" and all sorts of other names to make their gun seem better then the competition. None of it matters after a certain point. Just like I shoot my buddies cheap Remington 710 and routinely outshoot most people with much better rifles at 100 yards. I can shoot my wasr10 at 25 yards and outshoot your average person with a scoped 22. Again I am not bragging, but your average (more like 90%) of people could benefit more from good training and 1000$ in ammo down range then a 2,000$ gun.

A wood worker with a 3,000$ cabinet saw, and 6k in other tools won't make much better of cabinets or furniture then with 1k in total tools if they don't get educated in what they are doing. I have made nicer furniture with completely cheap tools then guys did with 40k in tools. Not that I am a cheap skate, I own a lot of nice stuff now. By focusing on skill and practice you can get the best out of anything. No practice means no skill, and no skill negates the capability of the tools one owns.

I don't care how accurate a company claims its guns are, if flinching, inconsistent grip, arc of movement, improper sight alignment, etc aren't controlled, the gun will never be accurate. It's more impressive to see tight groups at 25 and 50 yards from a guy with a 100$ gun then a guy who can't shoot 6 inch groups at 15 yards with a 2,000$ gun. I see more of this then the opposite 10 to 1.

usp9
May 1, 2013, 08:16 AM
most accurate 9mm under 2000

One of the most accurate pistols made was the exquisite HK USP Elite.

sigarms228
May 1, 2013, 09:47 AM
SIG P210's were originally supplied with targets fired at the factory at 50 yards! Those targets looked like targets from other guns fired at 25 yards. I don't know about the new ones, but I'd give them a shot (pun intended).

Here is a test target from a P210 that was in the SIGForum classifieds a few months ago. This was at 50 meters!

http://i669.photobucket.com/albums/vv60/kk9zz/P210target.jpg (http://s669.photobucket.com/user/kk9zz/media/P210target.jpg.html)

Blackstone
May 1, 2013, 11:15 AM
Yep, there's a reason why most of the high-scoring shooters in my British-Swiss club will use a P210 for 50m shooting

SharpsDressedMan
May 1, 2013, 05:17 PM
In the tradition of the proverbial Swiss watch, when SIG/Switzerland made the P210 there was hand fitting and finishing similar to that of the hand crafted, custom 1911's done by the specialty 'smiths. THAT is why they shoot so well. That little extra attention was rolled into the price, which was always higher than Colt or S&W's high end models.

Jed Carter
May 1, 2013, 05:28 PM
Shot the X5, P210, S&W 952, none of them could shoot better than my STI Trojan 9mm. At least in my hands, the STI was as good if not better than any of the others. Cost wise it retails locally for about $1050 to $1180, mine was made in the STI Custom shop, nothing special done but leave off the billboard and serations on the front of the slide, cost with FET, just above $1400.

Potatohead
May 1, 2013, 06:34 PM
Let me guess your a Glock shooter?

i thought that was pretty funny....geez ,you glockers sure are a sensitive bunch

Potatohead
May 1, 2013, 06:39 PM
Most people do not posses the pratice or training to be accurate enough to claim they need a custom gun.

That sounds gun-snobbish to me....maybe some people just want one...?

JiminSC
May 1, 2013, 07:45 PM
[QUOTE] Shot the X5, P210, S&W 952, none of them could shoot better than my STI Trojan 9mm. /QUOTE]


Darn you! I have been trying to talk myself out of the shiny new STI Trojan at my LGS. I need another 9mm 1911 like I need a hole in my head but that one just feels so good in my Hand.:rolleyes:

oneounceload
May 1, 2013, 09:18 PM
Sorry, the above folks who said the 210 get the main prize.......

Jed Carter
May 1, 2013, 10:19 PM
STI Trojan, worth every penny I spent on it, really good Steel challenge pistol, excellent USPSA Single Stack gun. Out shoot a lot of people even at minor power factor. For the money it may be one of the best 9mm pistols...ever. Ramped Schuman barrel, accepts Wilson Combat 10 round magazines, stock trigger good to excellent. Easy to find parts and upgrades, not to mention holsters that fit. There are a lot of good reasons to get a 9mm 1911, shooting one is the best one of all.

Blackstone
May 2, 2013, 06:13 AM
That sounds gun-snobbish to me....maybe some people just want one...?
Difference between 'need' and 'want' though

GregGry
May 2, 2013, 07:07 AM
That sounds gun-snobbish to me....maybe some people just want one...?

I understand owning any gun for the sake of wanting one. Looking to buy a gun for super accuracy is looking for a gun to fill a need. Without understanding what accuracy is, what guns a person shoots best, and practice, inherent accuracy is worthless. The local gun store to me sells a few 2k plus 1911s a week, and it's not uncommon to see them at any range I go to. Most of the people that own them can't shoot 4 inch groups at 50 feet let alone 25 yards. I am not trying to make fun of anyone here, just making a point that accuracy is in the shooter. Which is why a good shot can get good groups at 25 yards with a hipoint, and a bad shot can't hit a 10 inch group at 21 feet with a high end pistol.

I have trained a lot of people to shoot pistols and your average person with professional instruction shoots 3 to 4 inch groups at 15 to 21 feet. Your average shooter at the range without any professional training is lucky to shoot a 8 to 10 inch group at 21 feet. The average person with some experience, professional training and shooting my sp01 with 22 conversion will shoot 2 inch groups at 21 feet. This is still much less then the gun can shoot, and with cheap ammo.

There is to much bad information out there with accuracy of pistols. If your on a message board asking about what the most accurate pistol is, yet you don't have much experiance/ training, the answer isn't "buy whatever you can afford" it should be "get a solid gun, get training, and practice a lot". Learning the ropes on a beat up police trade in glock or Berreta will do a lot more for accuracy then a 2k gun will.

GregGry
May 2, 2013, 08:17 AM
I have had a lot of students start one of my classes saying "they are thinking about getting a different pistol because theirs isn't accurate". By the time they are done with the class they are better shots, and realize their accuracy problem was them and not the gun.

Even I have had issues shooting some guns. I bought a ruger lcr in 357 mag a while ago. I took it to the range and literally couldn't hit a 5 inch circle at 15 feet! I was so disappointed in myself And the gun I didn't know what to do. On a fluke I saw a ad it came with for a big dot front sight. I noticed they had the front sight way higher then the rear notch. I thought "gee, I wonder if my front post should be aligned much higher then I had it (it was level across the front back sight and I was hitting way low). I painted the ramp of the front sight bright red, and took it back to the range. Magically I was able to shoot very well with it, and everything was great. This reminded me of how newbie shooters feel when they buy nice guns and have the same problems.

Every accurate shooter has his or her preferred pistol. Some like 1911s, and some even love single action revolvers. Everyone has different attributes that make certain guns work better for them. That's why before blowing major coin on a super accurate pistol you should atleast know what works and what doesn't for you. Or you might be throwing your money away.

Pilot
May 2, 2013, 08:18 AM
CZ is the only manufacturer I know much about their Custom Shop. The Shadow Target Custom lists for around 1300 and the Accu Shadow is $1600. Supposedly, all the Custom Shop work is what gives their accuracy.

Well, that is partially true. The CZ Custom Shop ADDS to the CZ's accuracy, but they are inherently accurate by design. The slide rides inside the rail, and the grip, and ergonomics allow an excellent hold on the pistol. The low bore axis helps as well.

Both my CZ-75B, and 75D PCR are both totally stock and are some of my most accurate centerfire pistols. However, I shoot my stock MK III Browning Hi Power just a little bit better, so accuracy has a lot to do with the shooter, and how the shooter adapts to a specific gun. Most pistols today are more mechanically accurate than the shooter, and for me it is mostly trigger weight, and how/wear it breaks that makes a big difference.

You may want to try a 1911 style pistol. The STI Trojan is a good suggestion.

JohnBT
May 2, 2013, 11:58 AM
"I am not trying to make fun of anyone here, just making a point that accuracy is in the shooter."

You're not making fun of anyone here. I simply don't believe you have made your point. You seem to be ignoring what you've been told by experienced shooters who have owned the guns being discussed.

You need to re-read the quote about the dispersion of the shooter being added to the dispersion of the gun. That's it in a nutshell.

John

tarosean
May 2, 2013, 12:09 PM
There is no sense bringing the shooter into the equation when discussing the accuracy of the GUN itself. We all know what the real world is, but if you want to measure the accuracy of a pistol, you need to remove the shooter. Otherwise, the discussion has no point.

/thread

SwampWolf
May 2, 2013, 02:20 PM
There is no sense bringing the shooter into the equation when discussing the accuracy of the GUN itself. We all know what the real world is, but if you want to measure the accuracy of a pistol, you need to remove the shooter. Otherwise, the discussion has no point.

A ransom rest is required.


Absolutely true. The op asked, "Can you tell me which pistol is considered to be the most accurate 9mm, up to $2000?" He didn't ask which shooter can shoot it best. If we are trying to determine the intrinsic accuracy of a given firearm, the first order of the day is to divorce the shooter from the gun as much as is practical or possible. A Ransom rest helps accomplish this (though it has to be conceded that the human element will always be present to one degree or another when shooting any firearm, rest or no rest. The goal is to eliminate it as much as possible).

GregGry
May 2, 2013, 02:39 PM
[QUOTE]

You need to re-read the quote about the dispersion of the shooter being added to the dispersion of the gun. That's it in a nutshell.

John [/QUOTE

How inaccurate do you think a xd, glock, or m&p is at 25 yards? If those guns were only capable of 8 inch groups at 25 yards, then yes you would have more of a point. Those guns with the right ammo are likely 2 to sub 2 inch guns at 25 yards with tailored ammo.

If you had no control over when to fire, the movement of the shooter would play a significant role over accuracy. However you have a trigger that allows you to fire consistently at the same point (or very close), which helps lessen that effect. You could have a 3 foot arc of movement for POI at 25 yards, and as long as you pull the trigger at the same time each time with the same sight alignment your POI will only be within the guns mechanical accuracy, which is less then anyone on here could shoot off hand.

The OP owns a glock 17 and mine is most certainly capable of sub 3 inch groups at 25 yards because I have shot that a time or two while standing. So the real question is how well can he shoot his glock 17? If he can't shoot 5 inch groups with it at 25 yards upgrading to a high end gun isn't going to make him a 2 inch shooter. If he is shooting sub 3 inch groups at 25 yards with it he could benefit by a upgrade.

I am trying to get the OP to the results he wants, not to spending a lot of money without results. Your average person tends to think a typical handgun is only capable of 3 inch groups at 21 feet. Judging by the OPs level of experiance and familiarization with higher end pistols, I am willing to bet he doesn't realize how accurate the guns he owns are. We might disagree on things but I think the OP could benifit more by paying for training and buying lots of ammo. If he just wants to own a "super accurate gun" for the same of owning one, yes all there is to it is buying one. If he legitimately wants to shoot accurately there is a lot more to it then just buying another gun. That's what I see training people on a weekly basis, is most people think you have to buy a 1,000$ gun to shoot 2 inch groups at 7 yards, let alone 25 yards.

SharpsDressedMan
May 2, 2013, 04:00 PM
I think a lot of "inaccuracy" assigned to the Glock is shooters not having developed refined trigger control.

Certaindeaf
May 2, 2013, 04:07 PM
One of the most accurate guns ever was/is the S&W Model-10.. that's a .38 Special. I think you can find them in a cracker-jacks box. lolz

Potatohead
May 2, 2013, 04:32 PM
Difference between 'need' and 'want' though
true

joeponds
May 2, 2013, 06:32 PM
Get a Beretta 92 and put a conical bushing on it. all for about 900
bucks brand new. It will shoot with the best of them.

Bill4282
May 2, 2013, 06:55 PM
Kimber Team Match II in 9mm. If good enough for USA Shooting team, good enough for me. You will get tired of putting them all in one hole

Gun Master
May 2, 2013, 08:07 PM
My vote goes for the SIG P210 . :) The H&K 's, other SIG's and possibly CZ 75's are worth consideration, in descending order.

mdauben
May 3, 2013, 02:32 PM
If I was looking for a particularly accurate 9mm and had $2K to spend, I'd consider a custom Browning Hi-Power from Cylinder & Slide (http://www.cylinder-slide.com/index.php?app=ccp0&ns=catshow&ref=CP108).

918v
May 4, 2013, 12:05 AM
If you have $2000 to spend on a 9mm, look at the HK P7M8 (single stack) and the P7M13 (double stack).


Here is a P7 factory 25m test target:

http://i8.photobucket.com/albums/a35/918v/pix892868944_zps2f0f8e6b.jpg

918v
May 4, 2013, 12:14 AM
Here is a Sig X-5 Tactical factory test target:

http://www.vuurwapenblog.com/xfivetarget.jpg

918v
May 4, 2013, 12:17 AM
Here is another P7 test target:

http://i635.photobucket.com/albums/uu73/smfoushee/DSC_0129.jpg

C0untZer0
May 4, 2013, 08:22 PM
The new German P-210 looks like it has a beefier grip than the Swiss P-210, does anyone have experience with the grip and opinions on it versus the original?

bc1023
May 5, 2013, 01:30 AM
The German Target models have the palm swell grips from Nill and are a bit fatter than the Swiss models.

You can see the German model on the far right.


http://i1209.photobucket.com/albums/cc398/cutillo_2011/001-5_zps6ea5202e.jpg (http://s1209.photobucket.com/user/cutillo_2011/media/001-5_zps6ea5202e.jpg.html)

http://i1209.photobucket.com/albums/cc398/cutillo_2011/027-3_zpsbae2ae35.jpg (http://s1209.photobucket.com/user/cutillo_2011/media/027-3_zpsbae2ae35.jpg.html)

TreeDoc
May 5, 2013, 02:11 AM
It's usually the Indian not the arrow

kerreckt
May 6, 2013, 03:19 PM
Any Tanfoglio full size. My full size steel Tanfoglio is the most accurate 9mm I have shot and I own SIGs and Brownings and have shot many Glocks.

Orion8472
May 6, 2013, 03:27 PM
bc, I [of course] like the one on the far right the most, . . . . and it is probably the most expensive, too. Absolutely beautiful!

Gun Master
May 6, 2013, 05:22 PM
What about the Bernadelli P-ONE ? I've had some issues with mine . In some ways it appears close to a Magnum Research Baby Eagle 9mm . In fact , I had a Baby Eagle magazine adapted to fit the P-ONE .

bc1023
May 6, 2013, 07:49 PM
bc, I [of course] like the one on the far right the most, . . . . and it is probably the most expensive, too. Absolutely beautiful!

Thanks

That's the German one. Those are generally less expensive than the Swiss models. I paid more for the others.

blkbrd666
May 6, 2013, 08:02 PM
My favorite for accuracy would be a Walther P88, but it's not in production anymore. Can still be found in new condition. For the money, the big brother or what you already have...Beretta PX4 fullsize. It doesn't even function the way your PX4 SC does, so they don't compare. The rotating barrel makes for a very accurate pistol out of the box.

Orion8472
May 6, 2013, 08:29 PM
Originally Posted by bc1023
Thanks

That's the German one. Those are generally less expensive than the Swiss models. I paid more for the others.


Wouldn't have guess that. Thanks!

bc1023
May 6, 2013, 09:49 PM
What about the Bernadelli P-ONE ? I've had some issues with mine . In some ways it appears close to a Magnum Research Baby Eagle 9mm . In fact , I had a Baby Eagle magazine adapted to fit the P-ONE .

I'm not sure how the Bernardelli P One is anything like the CZ75. For starters, the CZ (and Baby Eagle) has a slide that rides inside the frame.

The Bernardelli and CZ are really nothing alike. It's a totally different pistol.

rem1858
May 6, 2013, 11:58 PM
Get yourself a new Beretta 92 and send it to a good gunsmith to fit the KKM slow twist barrel and some action work and springs.
New rear adjustable and a taller front sight(good to 50yds +)
Get some 115gr AMU ammo from Atlanta Arms.
This will cost well under $2K and will be very accurate.
Just saying.

Clarence

Throwingdown
May 7, 2013, 12:06 AM
Never shot a P210...but of all 9mm's I've shot, the G34's are excellent for the money as well as the CZ varients - they practically shoot themselves.

918v
May 7, 2013, 12:37 PM
My favorite for accuracy would be a Walther P88

Is this why:

http://i8.photobucket.com/albums/a35/918v/photo_zps64f82902.jpg

918v
May 7, 2013, 12:43 PM
How'bout this:

http://i8.photobucket.com/albums/a35/918v/photo_zps4e3585b1.jpg

918v
May 7, 2013, 12:56 PM
But wait, here is another exhibiting Glock level accuracy:

http://i8.photobucket.com/albums/a35/918v/photo_zps6c3b790f.jpg

robctwo
May 8, 2013, 10:36 AM
I have a Les Baer 9mm that shoots pretty good. 1911 triggers are hard to beat. I have an old CZ 75BD with a 5" Bar-Sto barrel fitted by the factory, total cost of about 1/2 the Baer that shoots as well. It has a 10s of thousands of rounds trigger job, which is expensive, but fun. Both shot much better than the S&W 952-2, so I sold it a couple years ago.

Rinspeed
May 9, 2013, 01:21 AM
Went through this several months ago and there were some very good choices including the 210 which was a little more, but I kept coming back to the X-5 L1. I don't think I could have made a better decision. Only problem is when you get to this level of accuracy there are no excuses when you miss. :confused:




http://i2.photobucket.com/albums/y29/Rinspeed/IMG_4399.jpg

Orion8472
May 9, 2013, 10:26 AM
Rinspeed, is that a single or double stack mag for that pistol?

JohnBT
May 9, 2013, 10:50 AM
Iirc, the 9mm X-5 L1 comes with 19-round mags. My X-5 TAC doesn't have the funnel and uses standard 226 mags.

Here's my 1970-ish Swiss Army surplus P-210. It came from Europe with the later commercial stocks already on it.

http://i269.photobucket.com/albums/jj80/JohnBT3/DSCN0228.jpg (http://s269.photobucket.com/user/JohnBT3/media/DSCN0228.jpg.html)

returningfire
May 9, 2013, 10:58 AM
CZ 75B out of the box accurate.

Orion8472
May 9, 2013, 12:21 PM
Thanks, John. That is excellent capacity.

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