Who's used their CCW?


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nomadboi
March 16, 2004, 05:09 PM
Okay, apart from getting out of traffic tickets (there was an earlier thread on that...), who has actually had occasion to put their concealed weapon to good use? What were the circumstances, and how did it come out? I guess current LEOs don't really count on this one, since they have their own set of requirements.

Just contemplating the pros and cons myself, and curious about how many folks have really had a time when they needed to be packing heat. For myself, the list of problems which I'd want to solve with a handgun is fairly short, and not your everyday kinda events either... those of you who carry on a regular basis, is it a 'just in case' thing, or something you seriously expect to use (and maybe even more than once) in your lifetime?

I live/work in a major city not in the wilds of Alaska on horseback, needing to be concerned with bears, horses breaking their legs, etc; I'm rarely far from a police dispatcher, have a cellphone, and there are few things I could shoot that I wouldn't later have to worry about being arrested and/or sued over- so the stakes would have to be pretty darned high. I live in a small apartment in a fairly safe area, with neighbors on several sides, so if it came to defending myself against an intruder I'd rather use one of the many melee weapons around the house than start firing rounds into the walls; I've studied a number of martial arts, and run a prop weapons business, so in my small apartment it's hard to be more than three steps away from a sword, stick, or something along those lines.

Thanks for any input.

Okay, back to lurking for me now...

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Josey
March 16, 2004, 05:47 PM
Twice. Arsonists and B&E.. Josey is still here.

QuarterBoreGunner
March 16, 2004, 05:59 PM
Ah... the eternal question. Check here (http://www.thehighroad.org/showthread.php?s=&threadid=60164&highlight=real+life+encounters) for a good start.

Diggler
March 16, 2004, 06:03 PM
I haven't and don't expect to use my weapon in my lifetime. I'd rather rely on my brain to keep me out of a bad situation rather than a gun to get me out of one. However, it's there if I or my family should ever need it.

I don't really see any cons to carrying. There were some times that I could have used it to put down wounded deer, but didn't have it on me because of work regulations.

However, in your case, I believe that living in a major city is much more hazardous than the wilds of Alaska. And if you need it, and IF you even get the chance to dial your cell phone, you'll be bled out long before the closest police get to you, even if they're only a block or two away. It will be long over by then.

If you don't feel comfortable with carrying a weapon, then by all means DON'T. I wouldn't recommend carrying a battleaxe around with you, either! :D However, you might want to consider how your melee weapons will fare against an intruder with even a single shot .22. But again, if you're not comfortable, then you shouldn't. IF you should decide to use a firearm for self defense, you should adequately practice and train yourself until you're confident that you won't just be putting rounds into the walls (rounds are much more effective when they hit the target), and you should have done ammunition research to make sure that you're using ammo that will not likely travel through the walls should you happen to miss your attacker.

Finally, the stakes are pretty darn high for all of us. You have to be in fear of life or limb before you can use deadly force against another human being. If that is the case if and when your time comes, at least you'll be alive. And if you used good judgement, there will probably not be criminal charges involved, though civil suits are a different matter all together.

I think it's great that you're asking these questions. It shows that you're at least interested in the self defense side of firearms. If you're not experienced otherwise with guns, try to find someone who can take you shooting so you can be more familiar with guns and understand more what you're getting into. There might even be some souls here at THR who could take you out and show you the ropes... it's rare that any of us turn down a chance to go shootin'!

Good luck, and no need to lurk here!

BowStreetRunner
March 16, 2004, 06:11 PM
1/4BoreGunner, I think i read about your incident in a book!
BSR

QuarterBoreGunner
March 16, 2004, 06:17 PM
BSR- Book?

THEN WHERE ARE MY ROYALTIES?

How am I ever gonna retire to lead the life of a Gentleman of Leisure if the money doesn’t start rollin’ in soon?

Seriously, what book?

JamisJockey
March 16, 2004, 06:47 PM
QBG
Maybe you should write a book. Start with your experience, and gather up some other verifiable experiences, and maybe some commentary on lessons to be learned from them written by SD professionals...and then lie back and take our money as it rolls in....

spacemanspiff
March 16, 2004, 06:50 PM
we have horses up here???? :D

maybe you're thinking of those moose we tamed and ride around on. :neener:

XLMiguel
March 16, 2004, 07:00 PM
Big cities (incl. Seattle) much more dangerous than Alaska on horseback. Meelee weapons are fine for CQB, but honestly, what would get you moving away faster at say, 10': looking down the business end of a .45 or some guy with num-chuks?

You are fundamentally correct, though, in that your mind is the real weapon, everything else is just a tool, and all the tools in the wolrd won't overcome lack of awareness & mindset. Y'all take care -

Standing Wolf
March 16, 2004, 07:57 PM
My legally carried gun, complete with genuine official permit? Never.

WhoKnowsWho
March 16, 2004, 08:48 PM
I always use my CCW permit when I buy a gun, it saves them a phone call! :D

thefitzvh
March 16, 2004, 10:06 PM
Not a CCW holder... I live in cali, so a loaded weapon in a car is a no-no, but I keep mine locked up, in the back seat, and a spare magazine loaded and stored in the place I work.

I work as a bouncer, and sometimes people aren't happy when they get kicked out. I walked one particular fellow out, very nicely, and offered him cash to offset the full drink he left inside. He was pretty upset about it, and started yelling, etc. I left him outside and went back in. Grabbed the magazine while I was at it, because I had a bad feeling about it.

Few minutes later I went to get some earplugs, and he was still out there. He was about 20 feet away. I positioned myself next to the car, pretended that I didn't see him, and opened the door. I bent down, unlocked the case, inserted a mag, and slipped it into my back pocket without him noticing. He continued to advance, and I told him to stop.

He asked why, and I told him it was a bad idea to bring a knife to a gunfight. I had my hand on the butt of the pistol the whole time, and he could see the bulge as he got closer. He left quickly.

Lesson learned? Get a freakin CCW! Also, don't go outside alone if you work in nightclub security. You, according to the drunken fools, are the enemy, and you're a target.

James

campergeek
March 16, 2004, 11:19 PM
Don't have my CCL yet, and with the current legal wranglings in Missouri generally and Saint Louis County specifically I'm not sure when I'll get my MO permit. However, I DO have the FL application in hand.

In any case, the original question reminded me of the arguments often heard against CCW along the lines of "statistically, most people who would get permits will never have need for the permits." Hopefully, this is true. However, while I can't give any first person account of having used a CCW, I'd answer the question with a question:

"Have you ever used your fire extinguisher?"

We've owned our house for over 10 years and have always had two extinguishers at the ready. Occasionally I'll check to make sure they're still charged, but I've never pulled the pin on either. I also have one in my truck - likewise it's never been put to use, but is always ready. Hopefully, when the time comes that I carry a CCW the results will be the same. I hope your situation is the same for both fire extinguishers and CCW. I'd like for both of us to always be able to answer the original question in this way (assuming "use" refers to personal protection):

"I've never used my CCW, and I hope to maintain that record."

Jim March
March 16, 2004, 11:46 PM
Done two chase-offs with my sidearm...attempted mugging of me once, attempt to finish off a guy passed out behind me.

Which, this being California, my sidearm is a knife.

Legally and morally, the issues on deadly force are the same. Tactically a bit different...

Oh, and chased off dogs with drawn steel a couple times too. Same deal: one group threatening me, a pair threatening some dude and his small dog.

No actual bloodshed, which is how I like it. No legal repercussions - cops took a full report of the second incident and arrested the guys who had assaulted an innocent victim. He survived (concussion, hammer blow to head).

With training, a knife is more than a match for a handgun at starting ranges way inside Tueller's 21 feet. It's also surprisingly effective against "long heavy clubs" like baseball bats; in my opinion, "short clubs" like hammers and large wrenches are more of a threat in untrained hands.

TechBrute
March 16, 2004, 11:53 PM
Once on a dog.

I've never had to use it on a criminal, so I'm thinking about not carrying anymore. I've also been toying with not buckling my seatbelt and cancelling my homeowner's insurance.

Jim March
March 16, 2004, 11:56 PM
Another thing: "use" doesn't always mean "somebody got shot/stabbed with it". More controversially, it can be "used" even when the aggressor doesn't ever see it.

What I mean is, predators (two or four legged) recognize possible counter-threats FIRST by the attitude of the intended victim. They flee from determined counter-response. That level of "determination" in the intended human victim stems from personal preparation and trust in your gear - including the fact that it's THERE, even if unseen.

I can't overemphasize how politically important this point is, right along with the chase-offs which are also common.

The grabbers base their WHOLE political argument on this key: that these "chase-offs" whether the weapon is seen or unseen don't happen. They want to count dead bad guys if possible (see also Kellerman's crud), or wounded at a minimum.

gtd
March 17, 2004, 12:58 AM
". . . I'd rather use one of the many melee weapons around the house than start firing rounds into the walls . . ."

OK, so you can't shoot straight. So what's your question?

nomadboi
March 17, 2004, 01:54 PM
I wouldn't trust these apartment interior walls to even stop a .22, let alone something that would stop a determined human. Anything that goes past (or through) the target would probably keep going until it hit the brick outer wall, if it's the cheap sheetrock and wood that I think it is...

And unless someone already had a gun drawn and aimed, a sword, club, or knife will find them faster than their crosshairs will find me, probably. Probably aint great, but it's better than nothing.

Yes, I've used fire extinguishers... but only as part of a stunt team, when doing controlled body burns. Don't try that one at home, folks. Good parallel though.

If intimidation is the important part, I've already got plenty of fake or blank firing guns, and someone with a flashlight in my face and one of those in the other hand would certainly make me think real hard about what I was doing... but I wouldn't want anyone to call my bluff; I'd rather not ever pull a weapon I'm not prepared to use, ya know?

Some good thoughts though, guys. Thanks for the links to the earlier threads.

Lemme also ask about the negatives: how often do you find yourself needing or wanting to go somewhere where you can't legally pack (schools, government buildings, private establishments, etc) and how limiting is that?

Topgun
March 17, 2004, 02:09 PM
thefitzvh........Pretty much everything you did would have landed you in prison with just a ....little....bad luck.
CA does not allow locked carry in the back seat. Gotta be the trunk. You're in luck if you have a SUV as the back seat IS the trunk.

Great to keep a gun at work.....but NOT go outside with it.

Also even CCW is seldom good in any place where alcohol is served.

You got lucky. REAL lucky.

You would have a chance if you were INSIDE and he came in AFTER you. But I'm afraid a prosecutor would have your hide for going OUT.


Get some pepper spray. May not work on a drunk, but sure better than explaining how much danger you felt from a drunk.

Chupacabra
March 17, 2004, 02:11 PM
I have never used mine, and I hope I never will. But if the SHTF, it's there if I need it.

I would carry 24/7 if I could, but since I work at a University, carrying there is a big no-no. Other than that, there aren't very many other places I want to go that prohibit carrying.

nomadboi
March 17, 2004, 02:24 PM
Which school, Chupacabra? I also work at a University in Seattle... a generally liberal, hippie, anti-weapon school at that; Antioch. Just means I have to be discreet when I have packages show up here with prop weapons in them...

thefitzvh
March 17, 2004, 02:53 PM
From CA DOJ website:

California Penal Code section 12025 does not prevent a citizen of the United States over 18 years of age who is not within any of the classes excepted from firearm possession and who resides or is temporarily in California from transporting by motor vehicle any pistol, revolver, or other firearm capable of being concealed upon the person if the firearm is unloaded and in a locked container.

The term "locked container" means a secure container which is fully enclosed and locked by a padlock, key lock, combination lock, or similar locking device. This includes the trunk of a motor vehicle, but does not include the utility or glove compartment. For more information, refer to California Penal Code Section 12026.1.



So locked container, or trunk. Doesn't have to be both.


James

Topgun
March 17, 2004, 04:12 PM
Live and learn. Will stop locking the damn gun box that's in the trunk. It was always a hassle and now I don't have to.

thx James.

Chupacabra
March 17, 2004, 04:26 PM
Which school, Chupacabra? I also work at a University in Seattle... a generally liberal, hippie, anti-weapon school at that; Antioch. Just means I have to be discreet when I have packages show up here with prop weapons in them...

I work for the University of Washington, at one of the libraries. :D

UW is also pretty liberal. Self defense around here means lock yourself in an office, call 911 and hope the cavalry arrives in time. :uhoh:

CAPTAIN MIKE
March 17, 2004, 04:27 PM
Looking back now, I wish I had reported these to the police - but at the time, since I was unhurt, I simply went on with life.

One was an attempted robbery when I exited my vehicle in CA one night on my way into a grocery store near my home. Fortunately for me one of the two perps announced their intentions while they were still about 20 feet away moving towards me.

The other was a half-assed carjacking attempt that I foiled by drawing down on the BG with one hand and driving the hell out of there with the other.

Both incidents could have turned out differently. Since then I have re-assessed and improved both my Situational Awareness skills, my evasive driving skills and my willingness to report such incidents to the police.

Bravo11
March 17, 2004, 04:30 PM
Hey TechBrute,
I too don't wear a seat belt. I want to be thrown clear of the wreckage.:D

Sylvilagus Aquaticus
March 17, 2004, 05:04 PM
I used mine once on a diseased skunk outside of work one evening. I used a fire extenguisher twice, once on my Volkswagen Westfalia that became a mobile hibachi while going down the road, again on a kid's Ford Tempo with an electrical fire under the hood.

I've never had a cause to use a firearm in a defensive regard against a human, but that's why I carry. One never knows when one will need it.

Regards,
Rabbit.

Heraclitus
March 17, 2004, 05:19 PM
apart from getting out of traffic tickets [...] who has actually had occasion to put their concealed weapon to good use?

What. You point your gun at the LEO and he drops the charge? :scrutiny:

But seriously, in answer to your question... no, I have never used my CCW. In self defense or otherwise. I hope I never have to. But it's always good to prepare oneself mentally, physically and emotionally for that time, should it ever come to pass. One can only hope to keep it all together in such event, and not do the tiger thing at the end of "Little Black Sambo".

thefitzvh
March 17, 2004, 05:24 PM
Topgun: do what I do... carry a copy of the relevant statute on you... I've been hassled before, and have had to show it to the cop.

Also, if you go my route for defense, ensure that you don't load the magazine UNTIL you're on property where you have consent of the owner to do so.

A loaded magazine in a car is a loaded weapon in the PRK...


It's sad that i have to resort to such trickery to defend myself. Hopefully I'll be a CCW holder soon

Far as I know, CCW in a bar is OK in cali as long as you're not consuming... I wouldn't consume while carrying even if legal.


James

thefitzvh
March 17, 2004, 05:26 PM
Oh, but you were right Topgun, if I was unlucky I could have gone to jail for brandishing, threatening, etc...

I weighed that when I decided to open my car door and get it. From experience, (and a few broken noses) in my line of work, drunken people who are violent and angry only respond to one thing: fear of physical harm. No amount of talking would have dissuaded him from cutting me up.


Although that pepper spray idea is a very good one. That combined with my 4D mag should be more than adequate against a knife wielding opponent.


James

QuarterBoreGunner
March 17, 2004, 05:49 PM
Far as I know, CCW in a bar is OK in cali as long as you're not consuming... That's correct. The only place Cali DOJ restricts CCW holders is Federal Property, ie. banks, airports, post-offices, all the usual suspects.

They did, once upon a time have this weird restriction on carrying in businesses whose primary business was the sale of alcohol for consumption on the premise (a bar). A business that sold food as it’s primary source of income and that served alcohol was ok (a restaurant) and one that had live music or dancing (a nightclub). I believe they scratched those restrictions about five years ago, right around when the state DOJ took the issuing procedure back in house and standardized the process.

manwithoutahome
March 17, 2004, 07:24 PM
Never have and I pray to God that I never have to do so.

M

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