Bought wrong powder


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balderclev
April 30, 2013, 10:38 AM
So I thought I was buying IMR4198 but accidentally bought H4198.

Now looking for load data for it under a Vmax 50gr in 223.

Hodgdon has load data for a 50gr SPR SP starting at 19.5. I'm thinking about starting at 19.0 and working up. That load is slightly below what I've been seeing on the forums.

Anyone disagree or have other suggestions?

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rcmodel
April 30, 2013, 10:48 AM
IMR-4198 was discontinued some years ago.

Hodgdon website has date for most bullet weights using H-4198.

They show data for the 55 grain Speer and 60 grain V-Max.

http://www.hodgdon.com/basic-manual-inquiry.html

You can safely read between the lines and come up with a safe load.

rc

45lcshooter
April 30, 2013, 03:53 PM
Yea I haven't seen IMR 4198 in some time. But 19.0 will be a good start. Some of my new calibers I reload for I go a little under the start grain.

balderclev
April 30, 2013, 05:03 PM
Thanks guys. Decided to try 19 - 22 at .5 gr increments. The texture of this powder reminds me of Varget.

Bill Jones
April 30, 2013, 05:46 PM
I picked up a few pounds of IMR-4198 a few weeks ago at Bass Pro, so I dont think they have quit making it. Late last year Widener's had 8 lb. containers.

KansasSasquatch
April 30, 2013, 05:56 PM
If you're loading it for an AR you may have some cycling issues. H4198 is on the fast side for .223. It's supposed to be a great .300BLK powder though.

balderclev
April 30, 2013, 06:02 PM
Should have mentioned that I'm loading for a 22" bolt rifle.

Eventually I will load for my AR but will have to do some research about COL and maybe crimping. Not crimping anything on rifles yet as my 308 is also a bolt gun.

thump_rrr
April 30, 2013, 06:35 PM
IMR-4198 was discontinued some years ago.

Hodgdon website has date for most bullet weights using H-4198.

They show data for the 55 grain Speer and 60 grain V-Max.

http://www.hodgdon.com/basic-manual-inquiry.html

You can safely read between the lines and come up with a safe load.

rc
I guess nobody bothered to tell IMR.
I buy it all the time for 7.62x39.
I'm just bugging you but it is still being made.

guntech59
April 30, 2013, 07:03 PM
Thanks guys. Decided to try 19 - 22 at .5 gr increments. The texture of this powder reminds me of Varget.
For a case that small, I would go with .2 or .3 grain increments. Save the .5 gr increments for the bigger cases.

Just my opinion.

MEHavey
April 30, 2013, 07:41 PM
...IMR-4198 was discontinued some years ago.

Huh? ;)

http://www.midwayusa.com/product/2185414469/imr-4198-smokeless-powder

billybob44
April 30, 2013, 08:48 PM
Huh? ;)

http://www.midwayusa.com/product/2185414469/imr-4198-smokeless-powder
Yes, I thought the same thing..I have a couple of recently bought cans of it in my powder magazine..Bill.

Kevin Rohrer
April 30, 2013, 09:25 PM
IMR4198 is made by Hodgdon and I believe is still in production.

I am thinking that the previous posters meant H4227. H4227 was discontinued by Hodgdon within the last few years.

Here is a thread that explains it:

http://thefiringline.com/forums/showthread.php?t=463210

Arbo
April 30, 2013, 09:38 PM
IMR-4198 was discontinued some years ago.

Hodgdon website has date for most bullet weights using H-4198.

They show data for the 55 grain Speer and 60 grain V-Max.

http://www.hodgdon.com/basic-manual-inquiry.html

You can safely read between the lines and come up with a safe load.

rc
Discountinued? I'm pretty sure that's what I've been buying and loading my .223 with...

Steve C
May 1, 2013, 04:00 AM
Hodgdon has load data for a 50gr SPR SP starting at 19.5. I'm thinking about starting at 19.0 and working up.

There's no need nor any advantage to start below Hodgdon's starting load of 19.5 gr for the same bullet weight just because the bullet is another brand. The point of a start load is to make the load safe if different components like bullet manufacture, brand of case, powder lot, primer etc. are used and give a good safe "starting point" to develop an accurate load with optimum velocity. By listing a start load (-10% of max) Hodgdon has done the thinking and the math for you.

Otto
May 1, 2013, 04:59 AM
IMR4198 is made by Hodgdon and I believe is still in production.

Hodgdon doesn't make any smokeless powder....they just re-label stuff.

IMR4198 is manufactured in Canada by General Dynamics.
H4198 is manufactured in Australia by ADI.
Load data is NOT interchangeable.

thump_rrr
May 1, 2013, 06:01 AM
Hodgdon doesn't make any smokeless powder....they just re-label stuff.

IMR4198 is manufactured in Canada by General Dynamics.
H4198 is manufactured in Australia by ADI.
Load data is NOT interchangeable.
I'm sorry but you are incorrect in stating that IMR4198 is made in Canada.
At least the 1lb. bottle sitting in front of me purchased recently in Canada states the following
"Manufactured In Australia, Packaged In USA"

243winxb
May 1, 2013, 08:40 AM
Hodgdon Powder MSDS http://www.hodgdon.com/msds.html This tells you where the powder was made and by who.

bigdaa
May 1, 2013, 09:47 AM
Lee Precision Data: 50gr Jacketed projectile: 19.5 start, 21.5 max

Speer Manual 14: Spitz SP or TNT HP 50gr: 20.0 start, 22.0 max

Hodgdon: Speer SP 50gr: 19.5 start, 21.5 max

balderclev
May 1, 2013, 03:08 PM
There's no need nor any advantage to start below Hodgdon's starting load of 19.5 gr for the same bullet weight just because the bullet is another brand. The point of a start load is to make the load safe if different components like bullet manufacture, brand of case, powder lot, primer etc. are used and give a good safe "starting point" to develop an accurate load with optimum velocity. By listing a start load (-10% of max) Hodgdon has done the thinking and the math for you.

Starting lower because of a different recommended COL and different bullet type. Not sure how much difference that makes and wanted to be sure.

cwbys4evr
May 1, 2013, 10:34 PM
I recommend the printed 2013 Hodgdon Reloading Manual. It's magazine sized and about 10 bucks. This latest version has an article which may be helpful, on the differencea between H-4895 and IMR-4895. It also has a decent amount of load data for the IMR and the H versions.

balderclev
May 2, 2013, 09:43 PM
Hodgdon Powder MSDS http://www.hodgdon.com/msds.html

I already know how to handle powders. A material safety data sheet does not give me starting loads:confused:

Ken70
May 4, 2013, 02:40 AM
SAAMI, the group that is supposed to regulate the ammunition business, should have never accepted powders with different burn rates to have the same number. That is so incredibly stupid, it makes my teeth hurt. I see this question over and over. Just think of the people that didn't ask or didn't know you can't substitute them for each other.

You have to wonder; what were they thinking?

ljnowell
May 4, 2013, 03:17 AM
Boy RC, a guy who is normally right makes the slightest mistake and people line up to nail you to the cross dont they? One of my favorite parts of a forum is that even when three other people point out a mistake the next three posters still feel the need to post it too, lol.

ArchAngelCD
May 4, 2013, 05:58 AM
It was reported a few years ago Hodgdon was going to discontinue IMR4198 in favor of H4198 because they were so close in performance both were redundant. It seems they might have decided to keep both because even though 4198 was removed from the IMR site for a while back then it's back on the site.

I like the Hodgdon variant a little better and the same holds true for all the Hodgdon/IMR twins like 4350 and 4895.

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