Anyone know anything about these old things?


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Ex
April 30, 2013, 10:06 PM
I have a "turn of the century" Mauser coming, with ammo. Don't have rifle numbers yet but the ammo is very unusual.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/8mm_Lebel

https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/3/34/Lebel_8mm_round.jpg

I'll repost on this when I have rifle photos, But an info on the rifles that fired these rounds or
the rounds themselves, much appreciated!!!

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PRD1
May 1, 2013, 12:10 AM
it is no sort of Mauser, but more likely a French Lebel, or a Berthier.
PRD1 - mhb - Mike

AethelstanAegen
May 1, 2013, 03:33 PM
There are some 8mm Mauser rifles but those fire a round different from 8mm Lebel. As PRD1 said, I've never heard of an 8mm Lebel chambered Mauser. I'd say odds are you either have a non-Mauser rifle coming in 8mm Lebel or you have a Mauser rifle coming in 8mm Mauser.

Ex
May 2, 2013, 12:11 AM
Thanks hugely guys! I will have it on Sat and see if I can post some pics and better info on it!

Till then (tips his hat)!

AlexanderA
May 2, 2013, 12:50 PM
There is a problem using pointed-bullet (spitzer) ammo, such as that illustrated, in a Lebel rifle with a tubular magazine. It's possible that the pointed bullet might set off the round ahead of it in the magazine. French military ammunition in 8 mm Lebel with spitzer bullets had special safety features to take care of this, including an annular groove around the primer (to catch the bullet point), and a double primer cover. Modern commercial 8 mm Lebel ammo doesn't have these safety features. This problem doesn't exist for the Berthier rifle with its box magazine.

303tom
May 2, 2013, 11:16 PM
There is a problem using pointed-bullet (spitzer) ammo, such as that illustrated, in a Lebel rifle with a tubular magazine. It's possible that the pointed bullet might set off the round ahead of it in the magazine. French military ammunition in 8 mm Lebel with spitzer bullets had special safety features to take care of this, including an annular groove around the primer (to catch the bullet point), and a double primer cover. Modern commercial 8 mm Lebel ammo doesn't have these safety features. This problem doesn't exist for the Berthier rifle with its box magazine.
Naw, that is the reason for the indention ring around the primer.............

Ex
May 5, 2013, 09:55 PM
Have now recieved this carbine.

It is indeed chambered for 8mm Lebel.

It is in fact an 1890 St Etienne Mannlicher.
Has original leather sling with some french
guys name and a couple of numbers on it.
Sling is in great shape.

All external surfaces are in very nice condition
with no spotting of rust anywhere. Most of the
surfaces I am guessing are a form of blued. Action
is perpfect with the bolt working smoothly. It is an
odd bolt assembly in that it appears to have a lot of
wobble in it mechanism by nature. It all locks up tight
when you close the bolt though.

Bore is very nice... except for the end 6 inches. First couple
patches though with breakfree clp cam out spotless. A
visual showed it to be dull so I ran a brass bush down the
bore. After repeated scubbings and patching, it's now
clean and I can see a bit of rust pitting in the last 4 inches
of the bore. Stock in really in pretty good shape for it's age.

http://i1138.photobucket.com/albums/n532/exisp/testing/Lebel%208mm/IMAG0037.jpg (http://s1138.photobucket.com/user/exisp/media/testing/Lebel%208mm/IMAG0037.jpg.html)

Ex
May 5, 2013, 10:08 PM
There is a problem using pointed-bullet (spitzer) ammo, such as that illustrated, in a Lebel rifle with a tubular magazine. It's possible that the pointed bullet might set off the round ahead of it in the magazine. French military ammunition in 8 mm Lebel with spitzer bullets had special safety features to take care of this, including an annular groove around the primer (to catch the bullet point), and a double primer cover. Modern commercial 8 mm Lebel ammo doesn't have these safety features. This problem doesn't exist for the Berthier rifle with its box magazine.
This Mannlicher has an attached 3 round magazine that is loaded form the top with the bolt open.

Jim K
May 5, 2013, 10:46 PM
It is a Model 1890 Mannlicher-Berthier cavalry carbine. The Mannlidher refers to the en-bloc clip type magazine, which uses a 3-round clip. Emile Berthier redesigned the Lebel action to improve it and incorporate a vertical magazine instead of the tubular magazine of the Lebel. It is not clear why the Lebel cartridge was not redesigned at the same time, but economics as well as French Army conservatism probably played a part.

In 1916, a modified Berthier was introduced with a magazine extension to use a five-round clip. While superseded in theory by the Model 1936, Berthier rifles and carbines served up to and even through WWII.

There is considerable information here:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Berthier_rifle

Jim

303tom
May 6, 2013, 10:04 AM
Have now recieved this carbine.

It is indeed chambered for 8mm Lebel.

It is in fact an 1890 St Etienne Mannlicher.
Has original leather sling with some french
guys name and a couple of numbers on it.
Sling is in great shape.

All external surfaces are in very nice condition
with no spotting of rust anywhere. Most of the
surfaces I am guessing are a form of blued. Action
is perpfect with the bolt working smoothly. It is an
odd bolt assembly in that it appears to have a lot of
wobble in it mechanism by nature. It all locks up tight
when you close the bolt though.

Bore is very nice... except for the end 6 inches. First couple
patches though with breakfree clp cam out spotless. A
visual showed it to be dull so I ran a brass bush down the
bore. After repeated scubbings and patching, it's now
clean and I can see a bit of rust pitting in the last 4 inches
of the bore. Stock in really in pretty good shape for it's age.

http://i1138.photobucket.com/albums/n532/exisp/testing/Lebel%208mm/IMAG0037.jpg (http://s1138.photobucket.com/user/exisp/media/testing/Lebel%208mm/IMAG0037.jpg.html)
Thats nice, can we see the entire rifle ?................

AethelstanAegen
May 6, 2013, 03:41 PM
Those are some sweet handling rifles for sure. The enbloc clips can be a pain to find unfortunately.

303tom
May 6, 2013, 10:50 PM
Just thought you might want to know.............
https://www.libertytreecollectors.com/productcart/pc/viewcategories.asp?idCategory=67

AethelstanAegen
May 7, 2013, 04:12 PM
Just thought you might want to know.............
https://www.libertytreecollectors.co...?idCategory=67

If only they had the 3 round enblocs! I have heard that the 5 round clips sometimes work if you only load 3 and allow the rest to stick out of the bottom of the rifle.

Ex
May 19, 2013, 01:17 AM
Thats nice, can we see the entire rifle ?................
Only full length photo is other side. Overall, wood is in great shape.
I have the bore soaking again, for a week or two then brass brush it again and see how much it cleans up. Appears to be very low mileage.

http://i1138.photobucket.com/albums/n532/exisp/8mm%20Lebel/IMAG0033.jpg

Ex
May 19, 2013, 01:19 AM
Soaked/brushed bore 4 more times today. It's getting better. Most of it is bright... just that last 4 inches I'm concerned about.

Ex
May 19, 2013, 01:39 AM
The permanent magazine does not have anywhere for clip to stick out. The one appears too load one at a time from the top... up to three

backbencher
May 19, 2013, 04:05 PM
That looks like a handy gadget. Any more from where that came from?

AlexanderA
May 19, 2013, 04:52 PM
That's a 5-shot Berthier, with the extended magazine. You need to get some of the 5-shot en bloc clips. Liberty Tree Collectors has them, 2 for $16.

https://www.libertytreecollectors.com/productcart/pc/viewPrd.asp?idproduct=292

Jim K
May 20, 2013, 12:12 AM
The magazine has a hole in the bottom for the clip to drop out when it is empty. There is a trapdoor over the hole to keep dirt out when the rifle is not being fired. See the little finger cuts? Just put your thumb and finger in there and pull down to open the trapdoor.

Jim

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