Anyone know how hot ejected cases are?


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Lucifer_Sam
May 1, 2013, 01:17 AM
I've read they are at about 325 when ejected. I made up an absurd 3rd rate brass catcher out of a folding net stuck in a weight and I want to make sure that the netting isnt going to melt. I figure I'll test by heating some cases at 325 and dropping them in the net. If the net melts I'll just string a pillow case on there. Do you think 325 is a good test temp? Thanks.

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TenDriver
May 1, 2013, 01:26 AM
Going to be some variables in there. I can catch a fired .30-06 case before it hits the ground and not get burned. 9mm and .223 will leave a blister.

PO2Hammer
May 1, 2013, 01:26 AM
I think some are hotter than that.
I got an instant 3rd degree burn on my eyelid when an ejected case got caught between my glasses and my face with a 10mm handload using Titegroup.
Having been burned many times before ;) I would estimate that case was closer to 400.
So many common plastics melt right in that 350-400 range.
Nylon would be your best bet, melting at over 500 for most blends.

FatboyHD
May 1, 2013, 04:45 AM
I actually bought a nylon laundry bag from Wally World and no problem catching 9mm brass

Blue68f100
May 1, 2013, 10:24 AM
My catcher netting is mosquitoes netting from the fabric store. It's made of nylon, it has some darkened marks after 5 yrs of use and some 25k+ rounds. The polyester netting I first tried melted in a few areas on the first shooting, was replaced. This is with 9mm and 45acp. powders used are WSF and WST and a occasional 231.

hdbiker
May 1, 2013, 12:32 PM
My grandson thought it would be fun to try to catch my ejected .45 ACP cases.He finally cought one,and decided it wasen't fun anymore.HOT !!!!.He's older now and is shooting the .45 himself.hdbiker

Nikdfish
May 1, 2013, 12:47 PM
Nylon net works fine on brass catchers that get directly attached on my 5.56 & 300BLK. It is about the same weight as found in laundry bags.

Nick

anothernewb
May 1, 2013, 01:09 PM
Considering nitroglycerine reaches flame front temps of over 4,000 degrees when it explodes, and most of modern smokeless powder with is made with nitrocellulose, I'd bet that the flame front is in excess of 3,000. Figuring in the heat transfer rates of steel and air - right off the top of my head I'd bet that a case right on ejection reaches a minimum of 1/10 of the flame front temp.

If you're shooting rapidly, figuring in heat soak and that kind of stuff - I'd be surprised if the cases weren't coming out at 500 degrees.

Would be interesting to get a high speed IR cam and measure it. Thankfully brass has a great thermal transfer capability - so they cool quickly.

Just looked up the specs for cartridge brass. abuot 900* melting temp.

jstein650
May 1, 2013, 01:16 PM
When a .45 drops down your shirt... it's HOT:o

ironworkerwill
May 1, 2013, 01:41 PM
Autoloaders throw some hot cases. Full autos throw some skin searing cases. M60 with 8-10 rnd bursts untill the whole can is gone. I have first hand stupidity. I picked one up!

Certaindeaf
May 1, 2013, 01:44 PM
I don't think I'd heat up some brass to 325 to see if it'll compromise that netting.. just use it as intended and inspect.

rcmodel
May 1, 2013, 02:01 PM
I don't think I'd heat up some brass to 325I don't think it's even close to that hot.

You can pick up brass or catch it right in the air without getting seared instantly.

If it was 325 degrees, it would leave a blister before you could turn loose of it.
And it doesn't, unless it gets down your shirt against your soft belly skin.

rc

Certaindeaf
May 1, 2013, 02:08 PM
I hear you.. that's why I kinda said that. Also, firing is different than a full heat soak (most times).. a lot of variables. I'd just not do that when doing a true test is so easy.

Carl N. Brown
May 1, 2013, 02:11 PM
Ouch. That's how hot. Had a .45 go down the back of my shirt at a match. The scab took a few days to heal.

kayaks
May 1, 2013, 02:42 PM
It's still snowing here today and I know it's hard to recover spent brass. It melts into the snow on contact, so it has to be fairly warm.

45_auto
May 1, 2013, 02:57 PM
I have had some personal experience with ejected cases. In my experience they have been VERY hot!

It's not advisable to wear short pants to a high-power match in the middle of the summer in Louisiana. If you do, when shooting rapid fire prone, a piece of .223 brass from the shooter next to you can burn itself to the skin of the back of your thigh. You have to pull it off and it will leave a .223 shaped scar. That was over 10 years ago, and if I wasn't at work I would pull down my pants and take a picture of the scar for you.

When I used to run the monthly combat pistol matches at my club we usually had 10-12 people show up. One match one of the guy's wives showed up to shoot. Maria is a very pretty, EXTREMELY well-endowed young Brazilian lady, and caught a piece of brass down her cleavage. Suddenly every thing started coming off!! It was the best pistol match we ever had.

I never got to see if it left a scar, but the next month we had almost 40 people show up for the match. Unfortunately, Maria never returned and our turnout dropped back to normal.

jstein650
May 1, 2013, 03:00 PM
OMG! That image just made my day!:D

Jim Watson
May 1, 2013, 03:08 PM
A friend of the feminine persuasion got an empty down her shirtfront recently.
She kept the gun under control but the dance was something to see.

It is a lot funnier to the bystander than the victim. I got a .223 from an AR stuck under my glasses' frame once and that was a pain I could not get away from.

GCBurner
May 1, 2013, 03:22 PM
Another reason to wear a hat with a brim, as well as shooting glasses.

45lcshooter
May 1, 2013, 04:51 PM
I've seen most shooters use some form of nylon. I have been known to catch 30-30's, I don't get burned, because I catch them and put them down right away. Like the planet fitness guy "I lift things up and put them down" hahaha

jmorris
May 1, 2013, 05:31 PM
The hottest one I have ever felt is one that dropped between my glasses and forehead. After than, "hat" was on the list of safety gear to have on.

In any case (no pun intended) it would be pretty difficult to measure as they would make a good heat sink as they transfer heat and cool very quickly.

Also depends on what skin they hit. When I was a kid, I remember my browning 22 bottom ejecting a case down the sleeve of my shirt and making a blister. After many years of abuse, my fingers now can hold metal that hot, no problem.

higgite
May 1, 2013, 06:49 PM
FWIW, a study was done in the UK a couple of years ago to determine 9mm case surface temperature during the firing sequence. Brass reached 336 K which equals 145 F. Aluminum reached 372 K, or 210 F.
The whole report is at http://www.cranfield.ac.uk/cds/departments/deas/pdfs/edwards-2010.pdf

gamestalker
May 1, 2013, 07:10 PM
I can palm a 7mm RM case on extraction without so much as a warm sensation. However, a 9mm case and even a 22LR, is too hot to handle straight out of the chamber. So it really depends on the case you are working with.
GS

MaterDei
May 1, 2013, 07:40 PM
Brass reached 336 K which equals 145 F. Aluminum reached 372 K, or 210 F.
Sorry but that just can't be right. Seems too cool to burn so fast.

Lucifer_Sam
May 1, 2013, 08:12 PM
I got the 325 from another forum where a guy shot once (I think a .40) and measured the ejected case temp with one of those laser thermometer things. It does seem kind of high-- at least for .45. I've had a few of those land on me, and they did burn, but it didn't seem too bad, even when one decided it wanted to visit and landed on my hands. But, then again, I have no idea how fast you get burned when exposed to certain high temperatures.

If this stuff fails I'll look into the nylon webbing. I have a feeling the pillow case would end up acting like a big windsock... and there is only a certain amount of ridiculous I'm willing to tolerate from my contraptions.

jstein650
May 1, 2013, 08:17 PM
HA! "and there is only a certain amount of ridiculous I'm willing to tolerate from my contraptions."

That, often times, is the rate limiting factor... :D

readyeddy
May 1, 2013, 09:22 PM
22 LR gave me a burn scar on my forearm and 223 will melt the netting of my brass catcher.

But 30 06 will be only be slightly warm immediately after being ejected.

HighExpert
May 1, 2013, 09:25 PM
You don't want to catch them, but I believe .22lr is the hottest out there or maybe it just feels that way when you are bending over to pick up .45s and a shooter next to you drops one down the plumber's crack. Now don't laugh, it wasn't funny at all.

jaysouth
May 1, 2013, 11:37 PM
Some years ago after a spectacular Thanksgiving dinner with lots and lots of family members who had not seen each other for several years, we decided to go my brother's farm and shoot.

After tacking targets to falling down farm buildings and shooting, it got kind of tame. We tried to figure out how we could get some moving targets. No luck, however, we had a rented Lincoln Town car that we could pile in and do driveby practice. Getting organized, we put up targets on the barn(long disused). We put out commence fire stakes and cease fire stakes. A safety was designated and put in the back seat to keep the shooter's elbows OUTSIDE of the vehicle and enforce commence fire and cease fire commands. The driver, me, was the front safety who pushed the front seat shooter's elbows outside the car when driving clockwise relative to the target.

The first shooter was my mother who was a spry 85 at the time. She was shooting a Glock 19 that we had given her for Christmas the year before. We took a practice drive by to so the safety could show the shooter where the commence fire stake was, and to quit shooting after passing the cease fire stake.

On the first pass, the safety was pushing my mother in middle of her back so the gun and her elbows were outside the window. Well, my mother has shrunk with age by about half. when the safety thought her elbows were outside the window, actually the gun was even with the window. When she fired her first shot, the brass went down the driver's (me) shirt. I slammed on the brakes, jammed the transmission into park and jumpted out of the car and started dancing until I could pull out my shirt tail and get rid of that hot case. I had a blister on my neck where it first hit me.

Every body shouted 'do it again', they had not seen ever such a frenetic dance from an old plump guy and wanted to see it again.

Well, we got out act together and spend the rest of the day doing driveby training on the barn. A recent addition to the family, a very attractive young wife who was from France, asked "Is every one like this"? The response was, Sweetie, you are in Arkinsas, and EVERYONE is like this! She had a poster size enlargment made of her shooting glocks in each hand. Nice international relations

When I turned the car in at the airport, it was covered with cow manure everywhere except the headlights and windshield, the floor had several hundred cartridge cases and dozens of empty beer cans rolling around. I was still nursing a blister on my neck.

hogshead
May 1, 2013, 11:43 PM
I have no scientific evidence to back this up but if you get a 308 down the front of your shirt its a little hotter than the surface of the sun.

GaryL
May 2, 2013, 12:21 AM
You guys are forgetting about the thermal capacity of the cases. The temperature is one factor, thermal capacity another, and total thermal transfer yet one more.

Way back in shop class, I was doing some practice welding. Took off the helmet, picked up a chunk of metal, and my fingers started smoking. First thought was "that don't look right". Dropped that piece real quick. It was aluminum, and I didn't feel the heat coming from it, but there was plenty there to smoke flesh. Took a few minutes for it to hurt - took days for it to stop. It was hot, probably 800* or so, with plenty of thermal capacity.

dmazur
May 2, 2013, 12:22 AM
Most of the discussion seems to be semiauto pistol brass (9mm, .45ACP, etc.) and I can confirm that these are hot on ejection.

However,

But 30 06 will be only be slightly warm immediately after being ejected.

is true only for bolt-actions and lever-actions. I've tried this in a Model 70 clone and a Winchester 1895 and the brass is warm on ejection.

The Garand ejects the case before the heat can transfer to the chamber, and the case is too hot to touch.

Same load, different speed of ejection...

jmorris
May 2, 2013, 12:23 AM
I can palm a 7mm RM case on extraction without so much as a warm sensation.

That was kind of my point of the heat transfer comment. By the time I eject a 50 BMG case from the rifle, it's not hot. Autoloaders come out a lot faster but are still cooling off very quick.

Anneal brass and you can see just how quickly they dissipate heat.

This video would be a good example. If they had the heat enough to self anneal, there would be no talk of doing such and brass would be unsafe to reload.

http://i121.photobucket.com/albums/o213/jmorrismetal/annealer/th_nottoohot.jpg (http://i121.photobucket.com/albums/o213/jmorrismetal/annealer/nottoohot.mp4)

Bush Pilot
May 2, 2013, 12:46 AM
I have had some personal experience with ejected cases. In my experience they have been VERY hot!

It's not advisable to wear short pants to a high-power match in the middle of the summer in Louisiana. If you do, when shooting rapid fire prone, a piece of .223 brass from the shooter next to you can burn itself to the skin of the back of your thigh. You have to pull it off and it will leave a .223 shaped scar. That was over 10 years ago, and if I wasn't at work I would pull down my pants and take a picture of the scar for you.

When I used to run the monthly combat pistol matches at my club we usually had 10-12 people show up. One match one of the guy's wives showed up to shoot. Maria is a very pretty, EXTREMELY well-endowed young Brazilian lady, and caught a piece of brass down her cleavage. Suddenly every thing started coming off!! It was the best pistol match we ever had.

I never got to see if it left a scar, but the next month we had almost 40 people show up for the match. Unfortunately, Maria never returned and our turnout dropped back to normal.
No pics, it never happened (Maria, BTW)

Lucifer_Sam
May 2, 2013, 12:47 AM
HA! "and there is only a certain amount of ridiculous I'm willing to tolerate from my contraptions."

That, often times, is the rate limiting factor... :D

Really, I might try to keep what dignity I think I have and spend some time maybe building something respectable looking, but last time I was at the range I know my brass got mixed with in with a few guys banging away down the line, which wouldn't have been bad, except the range ammo sweeper guy comes running in with big saucer eyes sweeping up all he could. I really couldn't go through the brass, I was mainly keeping what was landing next to me, but I was pretty pissed at myself that I was losing $.

JohnsXDM
May 2, 2013, 02:21 AM
When a .45 drops down your shirt... it's HOT:o
Been there, done that, DON'T LIKE IT !!! Burns like hell !!

Lucifer_Sam
May 2, 2013, 10:04 PM
Ran across this gif a little while ago, made me think of this thread. While it doesnt add to the discussion, I think it might be relevant.

http://i.imgur.com/2Y4lu.gif

firesky101
May 2, 2013, 10:31 PM
I think it varies a lot on the cartridge and firearm. The first time my father shot his K31 with me, he pulled out the freshly fired casing and dropped it down my shirt. I jumped up figuring it would be hot, but it was ambient temp. I believe it was GP11, no idea why those casings don't heat up at all.

stiffdogg06
May 2, 2013, 11:14 PM
Hot enough to leave a nice little circle scar on my right biceps. This was a 180gr .40 with 5.9gr of Unique.

mstreddy
May 3, 2013, 12:37 AM
I've seen and performed my share of the HBD - Hot Brass Dance... I always smile when a young man wants to impress all around with the hottie girlfriend that he brings to the range in a skimpy top -- tank tops, etc... and of course shooting semi auto pistols.

My personal fave was when shooting the M240 for the first time -- ejects on the bottom as you may know -- sloped concrete shooting line, no BDU top, so bare forearms in the prone... must have gotten 15-20 pieces of toasty 308 right by my arms and elbows. But I was still grinning as it was the first time shooting our brand spanking new 240s.

I've also gotten the occasional brass in the forehead and almost staying on the frame of the glasses. -- not fun!

Float Pilot
May 3, 2013, 01:47 AM
A hot chamber will make them even hotter....

I got myself into trouble during a shooting demonstration suing a m-249 SAW and 400 rounds all belted together ,,, for one long burst... While cutting a 55 gallon drum in two, the brass bounced of a box we had set-up and instead went flying into the crowd.... A few folks had some real blisters... Deep doo-doo ensued...

SlamFire1
May 3, 2013, 10:37 AM
When the Garand was the match rifle on the firing line, competitors wore the Marine Corp Campaign hat to protect themselves from those big, hot 30-06 cases flying in the air. Garands will kick cases out in almost a 360 degree circle.

I have experienced burns when cases from the Garand on the position to my left went down my shooting coat or landed on my neck.

jmorris
May 3, 2013, 10:58 AM
Speaking of how things eject, mini 14 cases must heat up due to the friction of the air and the speed they are flying.

And yes that was a joke.

jr_roosa
May 3, 2013, 10:59 AM
Garands will kick cases out in almost a 360 degree circle.

Amen.

I was just doing some load development last night with a Garand. Every once in a while, the case would eject in the perfect trajectory to land back on the bench after a brief trip around the room. That way I could absent-mindedly pick it up to put it back in the box. It's not so much the heat you notice, but the fact that the brass is sticky, like when you pick up a really cold piece of metal and it freezes to your fingers. That's right about when I remember how you should let Garand brass cool a little before you pick it up. Just about the same time, those slow pain nerve fibers are getting the signal to my brain that I've seared my fingers to something, and I should probably address that issue.

-J.

JRH6856
May 3, 2013, 11:04 AM
I have made brass catchers from mesh soccer ball bags and aquarium nets for tropical fish. None have shown any sign of melting. FWIW, the fish nets work best for me.

tbob38
May 3, 2013, 12:00 PM
Most of the discussion seems to be semiauto pistol brass (9mm, .45ACP, etc.) and I can confirm that these are hot on ejection.

However,



is true only for bolt-actions and lever-actions. I've tried this in a Model 70 clone and a Winchester 1895 and the brass is warm on ejection.

The Garand ejects the case before the heat can transfer to the chamber, and the case is too hot to touch.

Same load, different speed of ejection...
This is pretty much what I was going to say. M1 30-06 brass is blazing hot.

blahpony
May 3, 2013, 12:11 PM
Speaking of how things eject, mini 14 cases must heat up due to the friction of the air and the speed they are flying.


Though it's harder for the cases to burn you from another zip code. :D

higgite
May 4, 2013, 03:08 AM
Speaking of how things eject, mini 14 cases must heat up due to the friction of the air and the speed they are flying.
Ha! And I thought it was from flying too close to the sun.

FROGO207
May 4, 2013, 08:20 AM
I warned one former GF repeatedly that looking like eye candy was not cool when shooting at the range. Then got to laugh until I cried when she did the hot brass dance while watching a friend shoot while up close and personal. We could not determine if it was 2 or 3 9MM casings that fell down her top at once but I saw at least 2 come out while dancing. The best part was helping comfort her that evening.:D

mstreddy
May 4, 2013, 09:56 PM
The best part was helping comfort her that evening.
Frogo - truly a gent!:cool:

And on the mini, it's actually the heat from atmospheric re-entry.

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