Tips For Seating Flat Bottomed Rifle Bullets?


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cwbys4evr
May 1, 2013, 09:47 AM
So being new to reloading, before I had even started loading I bought two different kinds of bullets: Nosler .224 diamater 40 grain, and Hornady .224 diameter 50 grain. Turns out the Hornadys are boat tailed and the Noslers are not. I had intended to first load some Noslers but found it very difficult to keep the bullet on the case in the seating process, so I switched to the boat tailed Hornadys.

Do you guys have any tips/tricks for keeping that flat bottomed bullet on the case when I go to seat it?

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raddiver
May 1, 2013, 10:09 AM
I simply try to get it as close as possible or at least stable on casing, or i will raise the ram with just enough space between the bullet and the die to set the bullet on the case and slowly raise the ram until the stem rights the bullet and it feels like i get some tension, then i lower it and inspect to confirm that it is seated/straight. Once i have that, then i do a normal stroke to seat it the rest of the way.

Blue68f100
May 1, 2013, 10:12 AM
You have several options. One is to expand the mouth just a tad more or you can use your deburring tool and bevel the inside of the mouth to hold the bullet. I use the Hornady seating die with their drop down aligning sleeve on the seeter, this works very well.

longdayjake
May 1, 2013, 10:27 AM
It really isn't very hard to just hold the bullet in place until the tip enters the seating die. In fact, I do it with boat tail bullets as well because it annoys me when I'm in the groove and a bullet tips over on me right as I go to seat it.

JohnM
May 1, 2013, 10:31 AM
Lyman M die or the Redding version.

Reloadron
May 1, 2013, 10:40 AM
Another option when not using a progressive press is using the seating die from a RCBS Competition 2-Die Set 223 Remington (http://www.midwayusa.com/product/305950/rcbs-competition-2-die-set-223-remington). Note I did not say it was an inexpensive option. :) "Bullets are inserted through a side window in the die, and the special bullet guide ensures correct bullet alignment".

Ron

MikeOBWan
May 1, 2013, 10:56 AM
make sure you are Chamfering the inside of the case mouth. Then just hold the bullet in the correct position until it enters the seating die..

Curator
May 1, 2013, 11:00 AM
Insert a needle-nose pliers into the neck and give a quick twist with a small amount of pressure. That will bell the case mouth slightly so the flat based bullet will get started into the case neck without crushing it.

USSR
May 1, 2013, 11:35 AM
Lyman M die or the Redding version.

+1. Step away from those needle-nose pliers.:eek:

Don

stavman11
May 1, 2013, 11:53 AM
I have a few types off .223 bullets that are flat Bottom...

I started to add more inside Chamfer to the cases... just did some last night... sat down and prepped about 50, didnt take to long.

makes them slide in a bit easier, and some will actualy balance on their own

I have a Lee pro 1000, and will just guide it to the seater die and it rolls right in..

Does take a few seconds longer per round but not bad... the Bullets seem Much More accurate than the JMF-BT so worth the extra effort..

higgite
May 1, 2013, 12:08 PM
I don't crimp my bottle neck rifle cartridges. I just chamfer the case mouth and guide the bullet into the seater die with my fingers as others have suggested. It sounds like a Lyman M die would eliminate the need to guide the bullet into the seater, but wouldn't it add the requirement for at least a taper crimp after (or during) seating to smooth out the case mouth?

stavman11
May 1, 2013, 12:21 PM
I also do not Crimp my .223 bullets... with as little recoil that the .223 does there shouldnt be any need for much of a crimp if any... Makes sense dosent it:D

USSR
May 1, 2013, 12:53 PM
It sounds like a Lyman M die would eliminate the need to guide the bullet into the seater, but wouldn't it add the requirement for at least a taper crimp after (or during) seating to smooth out the case mouth?

A bullet seating die can be set up to: not crimp at all, remove the case mouth flare, or to crimp the bullet. You want to set it up so as to just remove the flare.

Don

JohnM
May 1, 2013, 01:05 PM
Correct neck tension is all you want.
If you don't know what the M die is or how it works just go to Lyman's site and look at it and read how it's set up.
If you load a lot of plain base or cast bullets, you'll wonder why you never got one after you use it.

mdi
May 1, 2013, 01:08 PM
make sure you are Chamfering the inside of the case mouth. Then just hold the bullet in the correct position until it enters the seating die..
Yep, just guide the bullet up into the die...

USSR
May 1, 2013, 01:57 PM
Correct neck tension is all you want.
If you don't know what the M die is or how it works just go to Lyman's site and look at it and read how it's set up.
If you load a lot of plain base or cast bullets, you'll wonder why you never got one after you use it.

+1.

Don

Romeo 33 Delta
May 1, 2013, 02:16 PM
M-DIE ... M-DIE ... M-DIE...

Carefully set it up so you just barely kiss the case mouth enough to allow you to seat an 1/8" or less of the bullet into the mouth. This gets it properly aligned and that is the secret.

M-DIE ... M-DIE ... M-DIE

I use M-dies on ALL my flat based bullets ... WITHOUT FAIL.

THERE IS NO FINER DEVICE MADE FOR THIS PURPOSE ... NONE!

JohnM
May 1, 2013, 02:45 PM
THERE IS NO FINER DEVICE MADE FOR THIS PURPOSE ... NONE!

There actually is. The expander die in the Redding sets is the same thing.
Might be some others, but the Lyman and the Redding are the only ones I'm familiar with.

Onewolf
May 1, 2013, 02:48 PM
I bought the Lyman M die. One of the best $15 I spent ever.

Sapper771
May 1, 2013, 03:54 PM
M Die ! LoL

Certaindeaf
May 1, 2013, 04:27 PM
"M" is short for neck flaring.. yep, pretty odd. I use a Lee universal expander for plain base lead rifle slugs.

Walkalong
May 1, 2013, 10:23 PM
Redding copied the two step expander (M Die) although I do not know if they use the same diameters. I have both types, and they work very well. I do not have both in any one caliber, so I cannot compare diameters.

As an aside, I made a 9MM expander plug for a Lee expander die body earlier this evening, and I made it a two step expander. I tested it out and it worked quite well. Sending it to a friend tomorrow. :)

JohnM
May 1, 2013, 10:43 PM
I have both for 357.
They're both nearly identical.
The Lyman has a bit longer expanding section than the Redding.
Diameters are so close it's hardly worth noting any difference.

Russt
May 1, 2013, 10:59 PM
I use the M die and the Lee Universal Expander mostly for cast bullets. I started using the Hornady New Dimension seater die for my .223, keeps the bullet nice and straight.

Walkalong
May 1, 2013, 11:00 PM
Well there you go. :)

cwbys4evr
May 1, 2013, 11:30 PM
That seater die sounds pretty awesome! But in the meantime tonight I tried running the shell plate up real close to the die, put the bullet up in the die and dropped it down on the case. Very laborious but it seemed to work okay.

Although two of the rounds I made looked a little "off". It was barely enough to notice but it seemed like the two rounds were angled, just ever so slightly. If I took a picture of it I guarantee nobody could see it. I even rolled them on the bench looking for wobble on the bullet and I couldn't see any. I don't know if I'm just psyching myself out over it or if they are actually off.

USSR
May 2, 2013, 08:04 AM
As an aside, I made a 9MM expander plug for a Lee expander die body earlier this evening, and I made it a two step expander. I tested it out and it worked quite well. Sending it to a friend tomorrow.

And your friend greatly appreciates it.:)

Don

GLOOB
May 2, 2013, 05:53 PM
Another vote for Lyman M die.

That seater die sounds pretty awesome!

Hornady seater dies are nice, and I have one for each of my rifle calibers. But I bought them before trying the M die. The M die is "better," and it makes the drop-down guide on a seating die fairly redundant. You will be able to sit the bullet straight up in the neck, in most instances.

The M die is better because it has additional benefits. It also allows the bullets to start into the neck without scraping. It allows you to expand with less effort, no neck stretching/distorting, and using no neck lube.

The downside of the M die is that it can take an extra step, if you use a SS. I prime while "M"ing, so it doesn't bother me.

make sure you are Chamfering the inside of the case mouth. Then just hold the bullet in the correct position until it enters the seating die..
This doesn't always work with "regular" seating dies. Even after the tip enters the seating die, a short and blunt bullet can tilt so far that it doesn't center on the seating stem. Then the crooked bullet just destroys the case neck. If it ain't broke, don't fix it. So if you don't need extra stuff, good for you!

GLOOB
May 2, 2013, 06:13 PM
It sounds like a Lyman M die would eliminate the need to guide the bullet into the seater, but wouldn't it add the requirement for at least a taper crimp after (or during) seating to smooth out the case mouth?
No. With a Lee Universal Flare die, you might have to crimp. That's cuz unless all your brass is trimmed to exactly the same length, a Universal Flare die will put varying amounts of flare on the brass.

The M die does a stepped flare, sized exactly for that one caliber. No matter how long your brass, it sizes the end of the mouth only ~1 mic over the size of the bullet. This does not have to be removed. One mic is nothing. If you pick up any two different headstamps of brass, you can find many times that difference in the thickness of the neck.

saitek
May 3, 2013, 12:10 AM
go with a rcbs competition seating die you will not know how you did with out it so long ! just get the correct caliber
https://shop.rcbs.com/WebConnect/MainServlet?storeId=webconnect&catalogId=webconnect&langId=en_US&action=ProductDisplay&screenlabel=index&productId=4387&route=C09J048N023

45lcshooter
May 3, 2013, 07:31 AM
Flat based bullets and boat tailed bullets, go in the same. Chamfer and deburr the case. When seating, hold the bullet on top of the case with your fingers. Easy easy easy. I don't have small hands, and my fingers work just fine.

If your going to load cast bullets then get an expander die, but if your only loading jacketed bullets, don't waste your time with a expander or m die. Just useless work, and you can ruin brass quick if not careful.

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