A School Shooting Drill in Oregon


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cavman
May 2, 2013, 02:35 PM
Read this
http://www.foxnews.com/us/2013/05/02/surprise-shooting-drill-terrifies-teachers-at-oregon-school/?test=latestnews

During a faculty day when the students were home, there was a "surprise" shooting to test the faculty's response. I don't think they knew initially it was a drill.

It made me wonder,however. If one of those faculty members had been carrying a pistol, his two faculty-mates as the hooded gunmen might have been in serious trouble, no?

Does Oregon have concealed carry?

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Certaindeaf
May 2, 2013, 02:40 PM
There's been concealed carry here for like 25 years. What'd they do, hide?

JustinJ
May 2, 2013, 02:50 PM
Absolutely moronic. Whoever authorized such an irresponsible "drill" should at the least lose his job and is lucky he didn't lose some teeth. I expect quite a few law suits to follow and can't say they aren't justified. Tricking people into thinking they are about to be gunned down is in no way justifiable.

Certaindeaf
May 2, 2013, 02:53 PM
I remember some of the guys decided to wake up a sleeping officer with blanks. They got shot and fired.. quite the crapstorm.

jmr40
May 2, 2013, 06:15 PM
The local SWAT teams run a drill at one of the local schools every year. They rotate around to different schools so they will be familiar with each. They used the school I retired from a few years back. Teachers were asked to participate, but not required. Most of us did and brought our own kids. Lots of other kids paticipated.

My son was "injured", had lots of fake blood on him etc., and got to ride to the hospital in an ambulance. A pretty big deal for a 6th grader.

I was one of the hostages, as were all the teachers/administrators, taken by the bad guys who were played by a SWAT team from another county. It was very informative and I don't have time to go into details. The SWAT commander who played the part of the terrorists leader spent a great deal of time teaching us about what was going on and why. Lots of un-informed folks complain about schools being locked down when these things happen, but the reasons why were made very clear during the drill.

TheSaint
May 2, 2013, 06:18 PM
Without prior warning, this sounds like a great way to get someone shot by an uninformed CCW holder who gets lost in the moment. The only way these drills should go down is with extensive prior notification to ensure everyone is on the same page.

Rock185
May 2, 2013, 06:37 PM
The administrators who sanctioned this "drill" are not very bright. They must have been Very SURE in their own minds that no one could possibly be armed inside the school. The type of announced drill described by jmr40 is an entirely different situation. I have participated in a number of active shooter trainings in schools, and in other locations. It is good training, but the described unannounced/surprise drill situation borders on insanity IMHO. In the drills I have participated in, All the officers, volunteers, actors, observers,EVERYBODY is well aware that this is a drill or training. In these drills, all participants, including the participating officers are individually searched to make sure they Do Not have any type of real weapon on their person,i.e., guns, back up guns,knives, OC spray, Taser, Impact weapons, etc,etc. I have been armed, in plain clothes at schools many times. I'm very thankful that some school administrator did not come up with one of these surprise drills while I was present...ymmv

PapaGrune
May 2, 2013, 07:01 PM
If there is no Carry on school grounds..ie a Safe School Zone. It should have not been a problem with this exercise, other than scaring the dog doo out of some people. Schools should add this to fire drills in today's world. If someone was illegally carrying on school grounds that would be a bad thing all around.

I think this is a good thing to practice and have a plan as much as possible. We have disaster training drills that include all the VFD, EMS, Police, and even the Texas Guard at least once a year. This includes patents, triage, evac, Medvac. This is to make sure we can all work together and know what to do.

mrvco
May 2, 2013, 07:19 PM
A coordinated drill makes a ton of sense, but what these guys did was reckless and irresponsible. I can think of any number of ways this could have gone horribly wrong and they don't all involve a civilian carrying concealed in or near a "gun-free zone" (e.g. LEO stopping by to say hello to his wife, PE teacher with baseball bat, teacher with throwing stars, etc, etc.).

58limited
May 2, 2013, 07:24 PM
Very irresponsible. What if a faculty member had a heart attack and died? Lawsuits for sure, could criminal charges be filed?

sidheshooter
May 2, 2013, 07:33 PM
Very uncool.

There is a world of difference between training, and scaring the crap out of people who are just doing their jobs.

Teachers may well have a hard time holding a superior's feet to the fire over this, but maybe the board or some parents from the community can have a visit with whoever authorized this stunt.

Piss poor, IMHO.

GEM
May 2, 2013, 07:46 PM
If there is no carry, then it should be safe - except for the fact that if you look around where I teach, there's quite a few interesting knives riding in pockets. With close quarters, you may be experiencing a Tueller drill.

It was in a meeting room, so close up and some folks have taken knife classes. You don't do a FOF without a complete check of folks for lethal weapons, improvised impact weapons, etc. And rules that if you go H2H you don't really bop the fellow. You disarm by reaching for the gun and having a referee judge you did it, etc. Someone yells stop if it gets wild. They wear funny orange vests.

pintler
May 2, 2013, 08:17 PM
If there is no Carry on school grounds..ie a Safe School Zone. It should have not been a problem with this exercise, other than scaring the dog doo out of some people.

1)You better be careful who is wearing what uniform or an amped up teacher, thinking he/she is fighting for their life, might take a blunt object to the person entering their classroom.

2)What about the 64 year old teacher who has a heart attack.

3)What about the teacher who hears the shooting approaching their classroom and breaks out their window and risks the two story jump onto the concrete steps instead of waiting to be killed.

bldsmith
May 2, 2013, 09:25 PM
Currently in Oregon CHL holders are allowed to carry on school grounds however teachers are not permitted YET. Reading the article in the Oregonian the administrator who ran the drill was talking about arming one or more of the teachers. At least it went in the right direction though not very bright to begin with. They realize they have to take care of themselves.

DanTheFarmer
May 2, 2013, 09:50 PM
This "drill" sounds criminal and/or tortious to me.

IMHO it was assault. Assault is the reasonable fear of imminent bodily harm at the hands of someone with the means to inflict that harm. Battery is actual unauthorized physical contact. If my definition is correct then the masked gunmen actors committed assault and the principal is open to conspiracy and "respondent superior" issues. Respondent superior - let the master answer - is the legal doctrine by which employers are held responsible for the actions of employees, particularly when the employees are acting in accordance with the employers instructions.

In any case I wouldn't want to be that principal at the next teacher's meeting. He'll be getting an earful at the very least.

Now my legal training consists of "Business Law 101" many year ago so hopefully one of our lawyer members can chime in but I still remember, and am amused by the example on assault and battery.

Prof. Adams is lecturing to his college class. He notices Bob and Charlene smooching in the back row. Annoyed, he throws a book at them. David, one row down, in the line of fire, and watching, has to duck. Edward, next to Bob and Charlene, has his head down taking notes, doesn't see a thing, but is struck by the book. The two lovebirds are blissfully unaware and untouched.
David can sue for assault but not battery. He took reasonable fright but was unharmed.
Edward can sue for battery but not assault. He was hit but didn't see it coming.
Bob and Charlene can't sue for either.

Dan

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