Cast .38 Bullets and Bullseye Powder


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Mike1527
May 2, 2013, 04:43 PM
Does anyone have a source for loads using cast lead bullets with Bullseye powder in .38 Special? I found some data for jacketed bullets, but not for the cast lead. I'm trying to use 125 gn RNFP bullets. Thank you! :)

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Searcher4851
May 2, 2013, 04:48 PM
Lyman cast bullet handbook or Lee's manual should have loads for that. I'm at work right now, so don't have access to my manuals right now.

Jesse Heywood
May 2, 2013, 06:16 PM
Alliant has some data in their manual. You can download it here.
http://www.alliantpowder.com/resources/catalog.aspx

tightgroup tiger
May 2, 2013, 06:50 PM
121 gr is the closest I can get according to Lyman's 45 edition.
Bullseye powder
starting is 2.0 gr
max is 3.8 gr

I would reduce the starting load by .1gr and the max by .2gr that should get your started.

As always, start low and work up.

ljnowell
May 2, 2013, 07:30 PM
121 gr is the closest I can get according to Lyman's 45 edition.
Bullseye powder
starting is 2.0 gr
max is 3.8 gr

I would reduce the starting load by .1gr and the max by .2gr that should get your started.

As always, start low and work up

I wouldnt worry about reducing it at all. That lyman bullet is a 125, probably, thats just the as cast weight. Add lube to it and it is a 125gr bullet.

Arkansas Paul
May 2, 2013, 08:26 PM
I wouldn't worry about reducing it either. The .38 Special is such a low pressure round, you don't have anything to worry about even if the bullet weights are different, which they probably aren't.

rcmodel
May 2, 2013, 09:08 PM
I wouldnt worry about reducing it at all. That lyman bullet is a 125, probably, thats just the as cast weight. Add lube to it and it is a 125gr bullet. What he said.

Lyman manual cast bullet weights are shown 'as cast' from the type of alloy shown in the manual.

A 121 is a 125 after the bullet lube weight is added to it.

rc

BYJO4
May 2, 2013, 09:14 PM
The Lyman loading info should work well for you and Bullseye produces an accurate round.

SlamFire1
May 3, 2013, 10:25 AM
The data below is what I got, I recommend going with 4.0 grains Bullseye as it shot well and did not lead. This bullet will shoot low in the older fixed sight revolvers that were zero'd with 158's.



S&W M637-2 2" barrel

158 LRN 3.5 grs Bullseye WSP Mixed cases
6-Apr-07 T = 48 F
Ave Vel =679
Std Dev =16.48
ES 56.11
High 698.2
Low 642
N = 18

125 Lead BBRNFP 4.0 grs Bullseye Lot BE 532 Mixed cases CCI 500
6-Apr-07 T = 48 F
Ave Vel = 763.9
Std Dev = 22
ES 78
High 806.5
Low 728.5
N = 15
Point aim OK

125 Lead BBRNFP 4.0 grs Bullseye Mixed cases WSP
9-Apr-06 T = 59 F
Ave Vel = 760.4
Std Dev = 27.33
ES = 82.1
High = 798.9
Low = 716.8
N = 19


125 Lead BBRNFP 4.5 grs Bullseye Mixed cases WSP
9-Apr-06 T = 64 F
Ave Vel = 827.9
Std Dev = 23.21
ES = 92.27
High = 879.4
Low = 787.1
N = 20


http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v479/SlamFire/Smith%20and%20Wesson%20Pistols/CheifSpecialDSCN5011-1.jpg (http://smg.photobucket.com/user/SlamFire/media/Smith%20and%20Wesson%20Pistols/CheifSpecialDSCN5011-1.jpg.html)


4" S&W M10-5


125 Valiant BBRNFP 4.0 grs Bullseye Mixed cases WSP
9-Apr-06 T = 59 F

Ave Vel = 863.4
Std Dev = 30
ES = 70.78
High = 907.5
Low = 836.7
N = 6
Windage centered accurate
Elevation at least 4" low

125 Valiant BBRNFP 4.5 grs Bullseye Mixed cases WSP
9-Apr-06 T = 64 F

Ave Vel = 945.6
Std Dev = 27.28
ES = 75.21
High = 995.2
Low = 920
N = 6
Windage centered accurate
Elevation at least 4" low




http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v479/SlamFire/Smith%20and%20Wesson%20Pistols/M10SW.jpg

paw080
May 3, 2013, 06:33 PM
Hi Mike, the standard 38 sp bullseye competition load for 25 and 50 yards back in the

olden days; was the H&G # 50 cast bullet in front of 2.7 grains of Bullseye powder.

Others used 2.5 grains of BE for the 25yd load(timed & rapid fire strings).

The H&G #50 bullet is available from Dardas and other bullet suppliers.

Here's a peek at the bullet design; http://hgmould.gunloads.com/molds/50_2.jpg

and here's Dardas's #50: http://www.dardascastbullets.com/mm5/merchant.mvc?Screen=CTGY&Store_Code=dardas&Category_Code=38WC

the case is intended to be crimped on the topmost groove. It usually casts as

148grn. The 2.5-2.7 gr charge is very light recoiling and yet is very accurate,

I've even loaded the #50 with 2.2 gr of bullseye for 50' bullseye, it works

great in my 6" Colt Trooper and is X-ring accurate at 50' and 25yds.

I found many 38 sp cast bullet loads in my ancient Lyman reloading guide.

Tony

RPRNY
May 3, 2013, 07:32 PM
Phil Sharpe's "Complete Guide to Handloading" (1937) available FOC from multiple sources on the web (just search name and title) will have a number of cast and Bullseye loads. Sharpe was a .38 fan and one of the architects of the .357 Mag and he loved Bullseye!

orionengnr
May 4, 2013, 12:35 AM
If you have not yet gotten your answer, I will ask my bud, who has loaded several thousand of these:

Missouri Bullet
Cowboy #2
.358 Diameter
.38 Special
125 Grain TCFP
Brinell 12

He uses Bullseye exclusively, and I think he is right around 4 gr.

Richard44
May 9, 2013, 01:11 AM
Use just one powder for handguns, Bullseye. Works great for me and don't have a bunch of different powders. I use 2.5 gr. for revolver and 3 gr. for pistol.

ljnowell
May 9, 2013, 03:23 AM
Use just one powder for handguns, Bullseye. Works great for me and don't have a bunch of different powders. I use 2.5 gr. for revolver and 3 gr. for pistol.

I couldnt fathom using only one powder for all handgun loads. You may have an optimum powder in a few loadings, but not in all.

Reefinmike
May 9, 2013, 04:17 AM
I couldnt fathom using only one powder for all handgun loads. You may have an optimum powder in a few loadings, but not in all.
Im using HP-38 and HP-38 only for 4 loads and i havent switched powders ever(well, sometimes win231 but thats the same thing). I load 102gr cast 380(3.0gr), 158gr cast 38spl (3.4gr), 125gr plated 357 mag(7.5gr) and 235ishgr cast 45acp (4.9gr). Not an optimum performer in 357 but being the cheap a$$ I am, I dont know if i'll ever buy any full metal jacket 357's to load with some 296. my 357 loads chrony at 1,400fps at the muzzle and give sub 1" groups at 15yd out of my taurus 66. Recoil is tame out of a 6" but watch out as 7.5gr can induce headaches through earmuffs and plugs :neener:

ljnowell
May 9, 2013, 04:23 AM
ot an optimum performer in 357 but being the cheap a$$ I am, I dont know if i'll ever buy any full metal jacket 357's to load with some 296.

And there it is. I load for performance. My goal is the best ammo I can make, not the cheapest, most rounds per pound, or the fewest powders. Couldnt do it that way.

Reefinmike
May 9, 2013, 04:36 AM
I hate the idea of sending an xtp into a pile of dirt(rather than a dirtbag :evil: ). All I load is range loads and boy do the 38's dot the proverbial "i". I may start loading for both accuracy and performance for 38 and 357 when I get my hands on a 357 levergun here in the near future.

ArchAngelCD
May 9, 2013, 06:31 AM
And there it is. I load for performance. My goal is the best ammo I can make, not the cheapest, most rounds per pound, or the fewest powders. Couldnt do it that way.
I agree. I have probably too many powders but i like to try to find the best powder for a round I'm developing. When powders were easily available I would buy what I thought would do the best job.

As for the OP needing load data, if you are going to load Cast bullets you just have to buy the new Lyman 4th Edition Cast Bullet Handbook (http://www.lymanproducts.com/lyman/publications/cast-bullet4.php). It has a treasure trove of information and data. It can be found much cheaper than on the Lyman site, usually right around $20... There is additional load data in the 4th Edition Cast Handbook than in the Lyman 49th Edition load manual. Unlike any other Lyman book they also include bullets from other companies in the Cast Bullet Handbook.

From Lyman 4th Edition Cast Handbook
.38 Special:
Lyman #356242 LRN
Bullseye - 2.8gr to 4.6gr, (+P) 4.9gr

Lee #358-125-FN
Bullseye - 3.2gr to 4.2gr (+P) 4.9gr

Alliant Cowboy load data:
125gr Oregon Trails Bullet (22 BHN)
Bullseye - 4.8gr Max (to find starting load reduce by 10% = 4.3gr)

NEVER TRUST DATA SUPPLIED ON THE INTERNET BECAUSE MISTAKES CAN AND WILL HAPPEN. Always verify the data for yourself, it's the safe thing to do...

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