Saw an RCBS Summit Press today


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Peter M. Eick
May 3, 2013, 06:23 PM
It was nice. I can see the logic and it seems to be a nicely made unit at the NRA show today in Houston. It was interesting to handle and see all of the RCBS gear at once. The press is big, has a solid footprint, is tight and does not hang down below the bench.

BUT

I also walked by the Redding booth. When I compared the quality I got with a Redding T7 Turret press or the Redding 700 Ultramag press, I am sorry, the Summit press is not going to make it for me in the short term.

Since I have a conventional bench layout, the real advantage of the Summit being a surface mount concept is somewhat lost for me. Given my situation, the T7 will be the most likely next press unless I get an Ultramag to replace the Rockchucker.

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918v
May 3, 2013, 11:26 PM
What, specifically, offended you?

Peter M. Eick
May 4, 2013, 11:16 AM
That is a good question since the bulk of my tools are RCBS. It is not a brand bias in this case.

Thinking about it, I did not like the roughness of the casting or how it was mounted on the frame. When I operated it, the unit tended to twist on the table which I took to be the small footprint of the base. It was definitely rough to to operate, which even for a new tool I was surprised at. One thing I did note is the looseness (for lack of a better word) of the press when halfway up. It was not a lot but noticeable. I have that same looseness in my Pro2000 (after 300,000 rnds) and my rockchucker. I am not referring to the ram being loose, just the linkages. If I were RCBS I would have at least lightly greased the unit after setup.

I was interested in buying another press "just because" so the Summit seemed like a fun new toy to play with. After I toyed with it a while, talked to the tech about my Pro2000 and looked around, I went over to Hornady and then Redding. At Redding I handled a T7 and given the same price (roughly) the T7 was nicer operating, nicer fitted, easier to manipulate, better paint job, smoother machined and felt very solid. If I was willing to spend a bit more money, the Ultramag was a better single stage press for brute force than the Summit for only about $100 more if I remember right.

So it all came down to the bench. If you need a surface mount the Summit is good, if you can live with a conventional hang below the bench design, the T7 or Ultramag looked like you got more "bang for the buck" in my opinion.

918v
May 4, 2013, 12:49 PM
From looking at the pictures, I was also concerned about the small footprint and the attachment of the ram. I think the Ultramag is a better alternative.

LeonCarr
May 4, 2013, 01:27 PM
I have had an RCBS press in one form or another since 1989 and the last two I have purchased were both Redding T-7s. IMO/IME they are the best turret press on the market today. Sinclair International states in their catalog that it is the only turret press they recommend for precision accuracy. I bought my first one after reading 38 five star reviews on MidwayUSA.

I had high hopes for the Summit, but right now Redding is flat out making a better product for roughly the same amount of money, both single stage and turret.

Just my .02,
LeonCarr

GW Staar
May 4, 2013, 02:03 PM
Better alternative is relative. They are such different animals. I'm thinking it just depends what you are looking for. There's room in the hobby for different designs, just like there's room for different people and methods.

I don't know if I'll like it anymore than Peter, but my bench with its Pro 2000, Automated Forster Trimmer, and Rock Chucker, has no need for a Turret......and the Ultramag is just bigger than I need (I'll never load anything bigger than 7mm Mag).

From a distance I like the open face of the summit, the stationary shell holder, and the possibilities.

Possibilities? Well, maybe straight line seating approaching a arbor....maybe. Or just a handier sizer for loading rifle on the progressive. It even accepts Hornady bushings if one desires. All without taking up much room on the bench.

As for the twisting Peter mentioned....that would concern me. But is it due to a less than sturdy bench at the show?

BTW, pricing at Midway for the T-7 is $283 plus $69 for each extra turret.
The Ultra Mag is $307. The Summit is only $210 plus $16 for the short handle if you want it. Appears to me that to go Redding (either press) is another $100 bucks....at least....and forget a small footprint.

918v
May 4, 2013, 02:09 PM
A press needs to have a large footprint to be stable, else you will destroy your bench top when sizing cases. Maybe one way to address this is to use RCBS's aluminum mounting block. The ram could be JB Welded to the base The linkage nuts could be tightened more and the linkage lapped in with JB Bore Paste.

CMD-Ky
May 4, 2013, 04:46 PM
I have enjoyed using my T7. I put the case activated RCBS powder measure/expander die on mine with separate seating and crimp dies. For various reasons explained in another post, I left the progressive presses and stepped "back" to the T7 turret and, after 1200 rounds, have not regretted it.

Peter M. Eick
May 5, 2013, 02:00 PM
The press was mounted on an RCBS 2nd generation plate. I have one just like it and recognized it immediately.

I mount all of my presses on these:

http://www.patmarlins.com/Rockdock%AA%20Prices.html

They were great and are very easy to slide in an out. No need to keep all of the other presses setup and running. I just slide them out and sit them out of the way. For this reason the Summit surface mount does not help me much.

The prices were about the same for suggested retail. Obviously the prices are different from Midway or Sinclair. so you pay a premium for Redding over RCBS. I don't need a T7 or Ultramag. They would just be fun to use and play with. Since I would not change the turret, the price differential is only 70 bucks and if you get the short handle (HIGHLY RECOMMENDED!) it is now down to say $55 which I would just accept and move on.

The Ultramag would be just for the fun of it when I load rifle rounds. I make no bones that I don't need it and it would be just for fun. When I get all of my pistol rounds loaded, i will probably treat myself to a T7 or Ultramag for Rifles. By that time the crush of activity will be over.

sevt_chevelle
May 5, 2013, 02:46 PM
Have you thought about the Big Boss II? The thing is a beast and like all other Redding products top quality. Great fit and finish and no sloppy linkage and ram...Eric

918v
May 5, 2013, 02:50 PM
+1

Big Boss is awesome. It's the Sig P210 of single-stage presses (please excuse my psychological manipulation ;))

BigJakeJ1s
May 5, 2013, 05:42 PM
A Dillon Strong Mount will surface mount almost any press.

Using a Forster Co-Ax, I like the handle pivot at the top. I usually "choke up" on the handle to reduce the range of motion of my arm, and their's still plenty of leverage for all but the most stubborn brass. I'm betting the Summit could be used the same way.

The CoAx's only weakness is seating bullets in longer than standard rifle length cartridges. Unless the extra capacity is needed, the Co-Ax is peerless among single stage presses.

Andy

Peter M. Eick
May 5, 2013, 09:17 PM
I have not looked at the big boss. The ultramag looks nice enough though. I will look it over before I order though.

Thanks for the tip.

GW Staar
June 10, 2013, 09:25 PM
I love new toys. Well, I came home with a Summit today....they had them at Sportsman's Warehouse. I will do a proper review (will take some time of course), but out of the box and sitting (not anchored) on the bench I had a few revelations....some I was warned about by Pete in the quote below, but none that concern me much yet. This is one different design. First read Pete's take on the press at the show in Texas where he saw one.


Thinking about it, I did not like the roughness of the casting or how it was mounted on the frame. When I operated it, the unit tended to twist on the table which I took to be the small footprint of the base. It was definitely rough to to operate, which even for a new tool I was surprised at. One thing I did note is the looseness (for lack of a better word) of the press when halfway up. It was not a lot but noticeable. I have that same looseness in my Pro2000 (after 300,000 rnds) and my rockchucker. I am not referring to the ram being loose, just the linkages. If I were RCBS I would have at least lightly greased the unit after setup.


First thing, that amazes me is RCBS is still inept at shows and promotion. You'd think they would take a little time and set up the press properly. They did the same thing with the bench swager last year.

Now Pete's concern about the rough casting is a surprise. I didn't see anything I'm concerned about on mine excepting the question whether the linkage is big enough. Time will tell.

The want-to-twist he mentioned is inherent in such a design, for which they have a big 1/4" deep and wide groove down the back of the ram and two bolts in the back of the casting that go into the groove to prevent twisting. I haven't noticed much play there yet, but I haven't given it a workout with a large rifle case either. Don't know whether the adjustment at the show was right or even tight....we will see. The bolts through the base will need to be sized maximum for the holes and tight. The holes in the RCBS plate may not be big enough....sleeves needed in that case. I don't use the plate, but I might for this press, just to be able to take it down and take it to the range........well I might....

The looseness he experienced? Mine isn't....at all. In fact all the linkage is adjustable for that. Which brings up the biggest surprise for me.

Rough to Operate: If you are expecting a greased pig sort of feeling (like a Rockchucker) when the ram is raised and lowered...well get over it....ain't going to happen...not a part of this new design. You have a die mounted to the ram that moves up and down over the case. Obviously, if the ram is frictionless, the ram will just fall on the case from above. That doesn't happen....in fact when adjusted right it stays where ever you put it in it's stroke. That will take some getting use to...in fact, you hear this gnarly machine chatter as it strokes. I think that's why there is a grease fitting on the casting....needs it for this design to work. Mind you, it's not hard to operate....it just sounds like it is.

Edit: That last paragraph was a bunch of bull. Yup, didn't have a clue what I was talking about. Today I took the press apart, cleaned it up, sanded off a couple of burrs, lubed the ram and linkage with marine white grease, reassembled, tightened the linkage up properly, and.........yes, the RCBS greased and smooth baby's butt is still alive and well. gnarly machine chatter....gone.

The directions say to tighten the linkage a tad until the ram stays put when you let the handle loose, through out the stroke.

Edit: Well, rereading that:o....I discovered they are referring only to when the press is used with the short handle to seat bullets....as a way to limit unnecessary travel.....turns out that won't work with the long handle....I tightened all I could and it still is too frictionless to stay put.....maybe without the extra weight of the long handle.....but hell I don't care....this feels like a quality Rock Chucker now. Smooth as glass, and the only play is a tiny bit of side-to-side...about right to center a case in the die. Not disappointed yet.....

I'll let y'all know when I wring this out and figure out its niche if there is one. For now, its my new toy. I love new toys to take apart and figure out. I do love the open front and small foot print. Stay tuned.:)

GW Staar
June 11, 2013, 10:00 PM
Foot inserted firmly in mouth in the last post. Didn't know what I was talking about.....fixes in RED.

G'dale Mike
June 11, 2013, 10:09 PM
I researched pretty extensively before buying my first press, Redding T-7 won out. Absolutely love it, but we are still in our honeymoon period!

stubbicatt
June 12, 2013, 11:05 AM
Man. I backordered one of these presses some time ago. Midway says they will receive it today and ship it to me as soon as it arrives.

It seems to have many of the design features of the Co-Ax without the annoying sizing ring method of holding your dies, or not allowing tall Redding seater dies with micrometer tops on them. My experience with the Co-Ax was "good try, now try again"...

So I see the Summit as a second try at a similar concept, and I hope it works well.

Thanks for the posting GWStaar, I can hardly wait to receive it.

codefour
June 13, 2013, 03:47 AM
Peter M Eick wrote:
At Redding I handled a T7 and given the same price (roughly) the T7 was nicer operating, nicer fitted, easier to manipulate, better paint job, smoother machined and felt very solid.

Peter, I have both a Big Boss II and T7. I really like them both. They are both built brute strong..! But both the Big Boss II and T7 have a slight problem with the linkage. They seem to have a side to side play in the handle. You can tighten the pinch bolt on the upper linkage but the ram gets too tight and makes it stiff. So be forewarned, there is a some side to side play. But the linkage on the RCBS Rock Chucker has no such play. There is no side to side play on my Pro-2000 either.

If I could have only one press, it would be a T7. The thing is built like a tank. I bought another RCBS case activated linkage for the Uniflow and load semi progressive on it. Especially large magnum revolver rounds that are powder sensitive, i.e. 460 S&W Mag, 454 Casull etc. I did not want to load those high pressure rounds on the Pro-2000.

The T7 and Big Boss II slide style priming system can be finicky though. It takes some adjustment to get it dialed in right..

Peter M. Eick
June 13, 2013, 03:03 PM
Thanks to GW for updated my review. It sounds like RCBS should have done the same things he did.

Codefour. I have settled on a T7. I have just been so busy that I have not placed the order. I figure I will clean off the Pro2000 reloads and then order it. I just had no idea how many 9mm's I had to reload.

Hangingrock
June 13, 2013, 09:39 PM
At first glance the configuration reminded me of the Hollywood Senior design except the die is stationary on that design with the shell holder moving where as the RCBS Summit is opposite in operation.

GW Staar
June 13, 2013, 10:36 PM
Thanks to GW for updated my review. It sounds like RCBS should have done the same things he did.

Codefour. I have settled on a T7. I have just been so busy that I have not placed the order. I figure I will clean off the Pro2000 reloads and then order it. I just had no idea how many 9mm's I had to reload.

The T7 is not an option for me, however much I'd love to play with it. It's just too big for what's left of my bench......I need a bigger room.

The Summit: After my last gushy post, I actually mounted a Lee decapper to check how precise the alignment is between case holder and die. Couldn't hit the hole. Nuts! Misaligned casting? Well the casting isn't perfect....that's what machining does, but close examination revealed a single bow washer at the top pivot was mounted on the wrong side...reversed it and the friction and noise came back, but now the decapper hit the flash holes perfectly. So then I loosened up the nuts a little to uniform the gaps and the push against the bow washers, and it smoothed up nicely again.

It would appear that this press needs an insert sheet with the instruction booklet to teach a minor alignment lesson. I used my calipers to measure the space between the pivot arms top and bottom, and tightened/loosened bolts to get them parallel. Not hard to do that, but out of the box they weren't parallel. This is a one time adjustment until you want to take it apart for cleaning....don't see that it'd be necessary for a few years of use.

A interesting observation: The exploded parts picture in the instruction pamplet show only two bow washers, one at the top of each link arm connection. My press came with 5 bow washers. One at each connection of the link arms...plus the one at the top pivot?? not two. Not sure why they only show 2...not sure why just one is needed at the top. I think I'll buy another to put on the other side and see what it does. May affect alignment again, or not.

My biggest problem is deciding where I want to mount the press. I'm not leaning towards an RCBS assessory plate, and I don't want to drill holes in my bench until I'm sure where I'm going to like it.

BTW....press stroke with this press is miniscule compared to a Rock Chucker style press. Only 60 vs. 130 degrees...45 degrees for pistol. I was pleasantly surprised by that. 90% of the time you don't have to raise the handle past your shoulder even for 30-06. The full up position is just for changing dies or to stow the handle out of the way when you're not using the press.

stubbicatt
June 14, 2013, 08:59 AM
Wow GW Staar. Thanks again. I'm not sure what a bow washer is, but now I will keep my eyes peeled for it.

I was on backorder with Midway for a very long time. I guess they had dedicated my press to a different customer, as they did not ship it to me when they said they would. So I ended up buying it from Natchez, for quite a price premium. I hope it will be worth it.

higgite
June 14, 2013, 09:51 AM
The Summit: .................
BTW....press stroke with this press is miniscule compared to a Rock Chucker style press. Only 60 vs. 130 degrees...45 degrees for pistol. I was pleasantly surprised by that. 90% of the time you don't have to raise the handle past your shoulder even for 30-06. The full up position is just for changing dies or to stow the handle out of the way when you're not using the press.
GWS,
Does using the shorter stroke lessen the mechanical advantage of the Summit so you would notice compared to, say, the Rock Chucker or a T-7? I played around with my T-7 a little bit last night and the least arc I can see giving enough clearance to comfortably set a bullet on top of a .308 case is about 100 degrees (just a SWAG). But, leverage-wise, I think the thing would resize a ball bearing. ;) Thanks for the reviews, btw.

GW Staar
June 14, 2013, 11:37 AM
Wow GW Staar. Thanks again. I'm not sure what a bow washer is, but now I will keep my eyes peeled for it.

A bow washer is simply a thin washer made of spring steel that is "bowed" so that it can act as a spring to keep the linkage tight, but allow it to pivot without undue friction. The Rock Chucker II (I have) has one on each side of the linkage between the cast parts....the base and the pivot.

GWS,
Does using the shorter stroke lessen the mechanical advantage of the Summit so you would notice compared to, say, the Rock Chucker or a T-7? I played around with my T-7 a little bit last night and the least arc I can see giving enough clearance to comfortably set a bullet on top of a .308 case is about 100 degrees (just a SWAG). But, leverage-wise, I think the thing would resize a ball bearing. ;) Thanks for the reviews, btw.

Yes, RCBS provides it for to do easy work like seating bullets and depriming with a universal deprimer. With the long handle it is supposed to have similar m. advantage to the Rock Chucker.....when I get it mounted we will see...as I have a Rock Chucker next to it.

One thing I didn't think about before I bought this press. The lock ring setting on my dies will NOT be the same as for the Rockchucker. That will probably be a pain in the ass if you plan to use both as I was. Buy another die set for each caliber? Or set it up for one or the other. That's the choices. (or you can size on one, seat on the other....duh)

stubbicatt
June 14, 2013, 07:16 PM
Mine should be here on Tuesday. I think I'll buy one of those Lee reloading stands for it. As I understand it, it will require a significantly strong steel base for mounting? Does the press handle have to clear the front of the loading bench? What size bolts/nuts does it require to mount up?

Thanks.

GW Staar
June 15, 2013, 03:42 AM
Mine should be here on Tuesday. I think I'll buy one of those Lee reloading stands for it. As I understand it, it will require a significantly strong steel base for mounting? Does the press handle have to clear the front of the loading bench? What size bolts/nuts does it require to mount up?

Thanks.

The base can be mounted up to 2 1/2" back from the front. Or you can set it further back on a raised platform. Mine will be mounted on my wood bench with 7/16" bolts, washers and nuts..... just as soon as I figure out exactly where I'm going to be happy with it.....drill once....I hope. I'm going to angle mine slightly to fit my personal needs.

codefour
June 15, 2013, 03:44 AM
GW Staar,

Hey, can I please ask that you post some of those awesome tutorial photos that you have done in the past of your new Summit press..? I loved your photo tutorials on the Pro-2000!! I did some of your modifications.

Thanks,

codefour

Edit, I posted my last two minutes after you did your last post... weird.. Im still at work though..

GW Staar
June 15, 2013, 11:44 AM
Codefour, that's the plan. But to be fair I need a little time....to keep my foot dry and the bad taste out of my mouth. Want to do it right. And I'm planning for the worst case scenario...military brass.

I always batch load...safer I believe (easier for me to keep focused). The game plan is to mount the Summit directly in front of my RCBS Bench Swager....Trim Mate behind that....APS hand primer in a holster to the right.

Step 1: The idea being that from a single position on my drafting stool, using a mere 3 lineal feet of bench space, I believe I can quickly & comfortably deprime and size prelubed military rifle brass, deburr the flash hole, swage, slightly touch a bevel to the primer pocket edge (the military reamer), uniform it, and reprime. Result: fully prepped and primed brass ready for a quick trim. (my trimmer setup uses a pilot in the case mouth....so the already inserted primer is safe from brass shavings)

Step 2. (will have to slide the stool to the left of the Pro 2000) Trim/chamfer/deburr on my Automated Forster Trimmer.

Step 3. Returning the stool to the first point, with a seater mounted to the Rockchucker, and a Uniflow just behind it, its a simple matter to charge, inspect, and seat.

The beauty of it is that I can choose not to prime in Step One if I want to load on the progressive. Trimming step two being the same, Step three can be on the progressive...priming, charging, seating for loads already worked up (for calibers I'm set up to load progressively).

Hope to do a video on the Summit featured step one procedure.

--An explanatory note: 1. I want to deburr flash hole before I swage, since bench swagers (Dillon or RCBS) are sensitive to head thickness...getting rid of the burrs inside first just makes sense.

codefour
June 15, 2013, 07:20 PM
GW Starr,

That is pretty much how I load as well. I batch load all my rifle pretty muich the same. Last year, I bought a lube die and it goes in station one of the Pro-2000, sizer die in station two. I love the Pro-2000 because it can cam-over unlike an aluminum-frame press.

I am interested in the summit for precision rifle loading though. Keep us posted please..

stubbicatt
June 15, 2013, 11:07 PM
+1 on a video. Would be really slick.

Peter M. Eick
June 16, 2013, 09:53 AM
I am also interested. It sounds like maybe the press they had at the NRA show was not exactly set up right.

I agree a bigger loading room would be better but what I did was buy a mount system and my presses just slide in and out of the mount. This way I keep on press on the bench and the rest out of the way.

Looking forward to your write up GW.

ps: I have a stack of boxes for you. I will be loading more 9mm today so i should free up even more. Slow and steady is my motto.

GW Staar
June 16, 2013, 12:42 PM
Well, I don't know about the show press, wasn't there, but you might be right. Then again mine isn't bolted down yet, so I haven't stroked it under a heavy load. I require 6" long bolts to go through the torsion beam bench, and 7/16" bolts of that size are rarer than hen's teeth on a Saturday. Will have to go to the industrial supplier Monday to get them. The more common 3/8" bolts may allow too much twisting having been forewarned by you on that tendency.

The mounting system you use is a great thing, especially for the way you reload. My bench is dedicated, I'm inherently lazy, so the less I have to heft around those presses the better I like it. I like it all set up and ready, (in the way in your eyes).:) Plus I don't really have a place not already filled with junk to store the presses. (ok, that's an excuse....I need to consolidate, organize, have a garage sale......true. :rolleyes:))

The real difference is the way we reload. Your "batches" are huge. You've loaded how many 9mm lately? You don't need anything else set up for a month or so right? BTW, what's your round count on your Pro 2000 now?

I don't have that need. Don't shoot as much as you. I might load 50 30-30, using single station, then load 100 .308 on the progressive, then add another 100 .45ACP in that session just so I can shoot a Saturday with my gkids. No organized competitions for me. My "big" sessions are 500 rounds at a time, and that's testing my patience.

On the APS boxes, thanks! But, after reading the above, just how big a stack of those boxes do you think I need.:D Wonder if and when we will see more APS primers for sale....seems to have pretty low priority with CCI.

Peter M. Eick
June 16, 2013, 09:45 PM
The round count is 322,183 as of this evening. I should really do a 300,000 round write up some day....

Today I loaded about 1000 rounds in a couple of hours. I just rip off the tape off the aps strips and when they build up I count them to know roughly what I did. I work out exact numbers when I box and serial number all of my work.

My current 9mm batch is 2097 rounds but I am still working on it so this batch is not done. I am currently making 5.2 grns of Power Pistol with a 125 grn LRN "small ball" from MBC to 1.066 col with cci500 primers. My previous batch was 1259 rounds of 124 grn Rem JHP's with 6.6 grns of HS-6 and then I have a few small test batches in there.

I would guess I have another 2500 rounds of 9mm to load before I switch back to 38 Supers and 357 Magnums. This year so far it looks like I have loaded around 18,000 rounds but I have not set up my spread sheets to really track that fact. I could but it would take a bunch of queries.

My goal right now I to get a caliber loaded so I can switch over and do another one. I try to work in 2 to 5000 round blocks if I can.

I am not sure on the APS primers and availability. I would bet this fall though. It seems like my perception is the stocks are finally filling back up and so give it a few more months and we should be in good shape. I know I have enough resources to go another year or so before I run out so I am not worrying about it. My goal is to start buying again around Thanksgiving to New year.

My big push is to simplify. I am going to get rid of all of my magnum primers this go and only use small and large pistol primers. I have concluded that they magnums don't do me any good on the rounds I load. I am also thinking about going down to a much simpler powder supply.

GW Staar
June 18, 2013, 02:13 PM
That's flat amazing to me.....I'm just not that dedicated....maybe I have A.D.D...but I get tired of it way sooner than you do....and I'm always looking for a way speed up the process, so my eyes don't glaze over. :o Yes, wish you would do the 300,000 writeup....sharing what wore out and got replaced, and what didn't. Your 150,000 writeup did a lot to me. Caused me to buy a Pro 2000, caused me to join 4 gun forums, caused me to post reviews and mods....I blame you for ALL of that.:)

So this batch of 9mm is going to be 5,856 plus the small batches of test loads.
I can not conceive of ever shooting that many 9mm let alone loading that much in a couple of weeks....of course 9mm isn't my favorite caliber...I like .40S&W better, and .45ACP is my favorite pistol. Then again I will never load that much .45 is 2 weeks either....or .357, or .40.

I load and shoot, load and shoot....no mighty stashes at my house. Yeah I understand....I pay more in the long run.

Simplify, huh? Well looking at my bench right now with three presses and a trimmer in 4 feet, it doesn't look simple to be sure. But looks can be deceiving. When you are lazy in the evenings like me (earned the right in the Construction Business) you don't do complicated....that's why my "mods" are always as simple as I can make them.

On the Summit project: I got it mounted....ended up using 1/2" bolts...even had to ream a little paint inside one of the slots. RCBS instructions say to use 3/8", I suggested in an earlier post, 7/16" and planned on that. But I drilled 1/2" and there was too much play....and 1/2" worked...play? Zero! Thank goodness the holes were accurate and plumb or there might have been "weeping and wailing and nashing of teeth" last night...there was absolutely no room for error. If a person uses 7/16" bolts drill the damned hole 7/16"....yes you have to drive it in but it's worth it. I'm still playing with the linkage...did size one .270 case...testing...not effort-free, but not bad. Different muscles used, as pulling the die off the brass is higher up compared to a Rock Chucker. The massive T7 may be less effort than either....don't know.

Will start working on the review, pictures, and video. BTW, I have this nifty .308 RCBS Gold Medallion seater I plan on testing on this thing....including runout on cases and bullets.

stubbicatt
June 18, 2013, 07:57 PM
GWStaar: I received my Summit press. The die plate (the part that slides) is sort of "twisty." I can grasp the casting and twist it maybe 5 degrees left and right. Do I understand that you snug up the two large grub screws on the back of the die plate into that slot to limit this "twisting?" Or is it that the linkage needs to be snugged down to limit this twisting?

The castings are beautiful, as is the machining. As I understand it, this is "Made in the USA," and the quality of every visible part of this press is exceptional. You can tell that whoever assembled it took pride in his work, as the hex headed screws or bolts show no rounding off of the heads which happens if someone doesn't push the hex key all the way into the bottom of the hole. The paint or powdercoating is very uniform. I haven't mounted it up yet, and with the exception of the "twisting" issue, the press seems very nice indeed.

There are only 5 of those wavy washers on mine as well, the main pivot on the die plate where the toggle and the die carrier interface, only has one wavy washer. Each of the "C" shaped linkage pivot points has a wavy washer.

I installed a Lee decapper die and a 308 shellholder, and one of my Lapua small primer pocket 308 brass (with the PPC flash hole) and it all lined up just fine, the decapping pin went through that small opening each time. So I guess alignment is just fine.

What sort of grease to use on the zerk fitting?

Thanks.

GW Staar
June 18, 2013, 09:06 PM
The bolts that go in the vertical slot in the back are not made to push all the way to the back of the slot, they will create friction. (ask me how I found that out) But they need to go in the slot pushed well in, just shy of touching the back....testing all the way up and down. They are "indexers" only to keep the press aligned side to side. Little play, but more play is added in the cap to linkage pivot.

The resulting side to side play is noticable, but some is needed to self-center the case to the die. You can reduce it some by tightening the bolts at the three pivots. Trial and error. Do use calipers when you tighten them so you keep the linkage parts parallel. I tried tightening too much. You will know it when you throw it in a bind. Keep links parallel that's the important part.

Would be interested to know which side on your press the single bow washer came on. I could of swore mine was on the right....took it apart....put it back....decided to move bow washer to the left side....worked better. Now I'm wondering if I just reassembled wrong from bad memory and it needed correction.....wouldn't be the first time.

I had mine apart and so filled the grease reservoir with white marine grease I had at hand. Multipurpose grease ought to be fine. Have not used the zerk yet....but will probably use multipurpose grease in one of these miniature pistol style grease guns.
http://imageserver.grainger.com/is/image/Grainger/4BY82_AS01?$productdetail$

BTW, many years ago, when learning to love my Rock Chucker, I learned in Handloader Magazine (what internet) that loosening the clip spring holding the shell holder was how you prevented the press from skewing cases to excessive runout. The shell holder in the Summit is held very tight by the spring clip. The side to side play may do away with having to stretch that clip spring. There are disadvantages to having a light hold on the shell holder. If it works I'd rather have the side to side linkage play than a loose shell holder. Well will see once I start testing for runout.

stubbicatt
June 18, 2013, 10:28 PM
Would be interested to know which side on your press the single bow washer came on. I could of swore mine was on the right....took it apart....put it back....decided to move bow washer to the left side....worked better. Now I'm wondering if I just reassembled wrong from bad memory and it needed correction.....wouldn't be the first time.
The washer was on the right on my press, on the toggle to die plate location. There is one each at each of the linkages.

Peter M. Eick
June 20, 2013, 04:05 PM
GW,

Our batches are proportionally to how much we shoot per outing if I recall your comments from previous posts. I go out and think nothing of shooting 700 to 1000 rounds in a morning. So my batches are basically three to four range outings. Isn't that about the same for you?

I will have to do a 300,000 round write up. I just have not got the drive to do it. Right now I would rather load than write up about loading. Since I am behind the curve on loaded ammo, I need to run the press more and run the fingers on the keyboard less.

Back to the SUMMIT:

I am quite curious about the runout issue. Can you make a few rounds and lets us know how it compares to the rock chucker? I liked the grease zerk and have thought about putting one on my pro2000. I find it hard to lube it well.

RainDodger
June 20, 2013, 07:02 PM
I've been loading for decades... my first personal press was an RCBS "Jr." purchased in 1969 (the year is stamped on the top machined surface)... and that was after I'd been using my father's old Pacific "C" press. I've used a lot of different presses since then.

A couple of years ago I bought an UltraMag. I use it strictly for sizing cases and I have to tell you, it is one smooth press. It's a big press as advertised, but it is smooth as butter. The ONLY downside of this press is the long swing of the handle - but that's what makes it so easy to use. You've got a lot of leverage with this press and it makes easy work of sizing even the biggest, nastiest cases. It also mounts with 4 bolts.

GW Staar
June 20, 2013, 07:29 PM
The washer was on the right on my press, on the toggle to die plate location. There is one each at each of the linkages.

Well that's telling....they probably did get it back together right the first time. So I reversed the washer to the right again. Actually does look better even though perfect alignment for the primer pin forced the two "C" linkage parts out of the perfectly parallel state I've been harping on.....what can I say, smooth as a baby's butt.....and now tightening the top bolts and shaft does indeed tighten up the linkage, as talked about in the instructions for seating bullets. Guess I'll leave it on the right.

On the twisting 5 degrees....I don't know how many degrees mine adjusted to, but it's really slight....and I measured with calipers how far the outside of the die actually travels sideways: .005" total, .0025" ea. side of center. That's not bad IMO. My Rockchucker linkage is looser, and my Pro 2000 is too.

GW,

Our batches are proportionally to how much we shoot per outing if I recall your comments from previous posts. I go out and think nothing of shooting 700 to 1000 rounds in a morning. So my batches are basically three to four range outings. Isn't that about the same for you? Sometimes....sometimes I only load a couple out. Put that's not the amazing part....shooting 1000 rounds in a morning is.:cool: I'm not that tough.

I will have to do a 300,000 round write up. I just have not got the drive to do it. Right now I would rather load than write up about loading. Since I am behind the curve on loaded ammo, I need to run the press more and run the fingers on the keyboard less.
Of course that's perfectly understandable, maybe you'll have your fill by 400,00 rounds....then you can do a 400,000 round writeup.;)

Back to the SUMMIT:

I am quite curious about the runout issue. Can you make a few rounds and lets us know how it compares to the rock chucker? I liked the grease zerk and have thought about putting one on my pro2000. I find it hard to lube it well.

Yeah me too. I will do a .308 comparison on runout....post-sized brass, then again after bullets are seated with the Gold Medal Die.

As for lubing the Rock Chucker, I've always used an anhydrous graphite lube by Gunslick (over 40 years worth...yeah it's an old product still made). It has worked so well just rubbing in on the shaft, that using the zerk would have to really be an improvement in slickness or ease of lubing. The Gunslick lasts and lasts....
http://media.midwayusa.com/productimages/880x660/primary/704/704257.jpg

After I mounted the Summit, the thought entered my mind, that making it drop primers through the bench into a jug would be a 2 hour job at most.....so I went and built it.:rolleyes: Now the Summit is the speed king for depriming dethroning the Rock Chucker. I like to deprime/wet-tumble pistol cases.....it's a bling thing.

OK, no more sidetracks....time to do the review thread. You will have to read some of this stuff again in the Review thread...sorry...not going to waste material for it.

stubbicatt
June 20, 2013, 10:39 PM
http://i80.photobucket.com/albums/j187/stubbicatt/IMG_0285_zps9d1e25d2.jpg (http://s80.photobucket.com/user/stubbicatt/media/IMG_0285_zps9d1e25d2.jpg.html)

Yay. I like the press. I still have to locate a grease gun, and figure what sort of grease to use.

I'm very surprised at the very little amount of effort it takes to FL resize.

ETA: Is it necessary to disassemble the press before putting it to use? I would really rather not take it apart if I don't need to do so.

Alignment: The decap pin lines right up with the flash hole, so I don't see any particular need to futz with it and run the risk of knocking it out of alignment. I'll have to figure out what sort of oil for the linkages.

Leverage: I'm thinking the short handle will probably be adequate for even standard full length sizing. I may buy one to try it out.

GW Staar
June 21, 2013, 01:54 AM
ETA: Is it necessary to disassemble the press before putting it to use? I would really rather not take it apart if I don't need to do so.

Alignment: The decap pin lines right up with the flash hole, so I don't see any particular need to futz with it and run the risk of knocking it out of alignment. I'll have to figure out what sort of oil for the linkages.

You have to understand....I get intimate with my toys...want to know exactly how they work and if they can work better. No, you don't need to take it a part if it's working fine now. Mine wasn't...it was noisy and rough....I'm glad I got it and not you.;) If your press feels too loose, you'll want to tighten things up a bit. You'll find that the tightness of each nut affects alignment and smoothness. If your linkage is looser than you want you will have to experiment. You have 4 nuts to play with. Just notice the effect of tightening each nut one at a time. 1. What direction the casting (holding the die) goes for each one, and test it for alignment. 2. What effect it has on friction in the linkage and the ram.

For example, tightening The top one (with bow washer on the right) moves the casting to the right. So if that moves it out of alignment (did on mine), counter by tightening the top left linkage to bring it back. If it won't, loosen the first one a tad while tightening the other. It's not hard to tune.

stubbicatt
June 21, 2013, 08:12 AM
Now that I have sort of played with it a bit, I notice that the die plate naturally comes to rest rotated, as viewed from the front of the press, to the left. I can tug it over to the right to the limits imposed by the grub screws in the rear of the shellplate, but upon release, it returns fully to the left. All slides easily over a 308 casing to resize, and when using a Lee decapper die, the decapping pin readily goes through the flash hole without bumping on anything, so I guess it is aligned ok.

I wonder what oil for the linkages, and what grease for the zerk fitting? Probably a drop of 5w30 ought to do the job, and generic automotive lithium grease. :)

ETA: My nearly 90 year old father has a 1940s grease gun with grease in it of approximately that vintage. I just pumped 3 or 4 pumps into the zerk fitting, and cycled the handle a few times, and it really quieted down the sound of the dieplate dragging across the tool marks on the ram. The press is absolutely silent in operation now. Additionally, it just seems "tighter" for lack of a better word. I think I'm really going to like this press!

Second ETA: This afternoon I resized half dozen 308s and 1 7.62x54r. The x54r had significant dimensional issues in that the shoulder of the chamber in which it was fired was very long. I screwed the RCBS sizer die in until it touched the shell holder, and then 1/4 turn more. Didn't even touch the shoulder on the case. I continued to screw it in further, I should have kept track of how far, but it had to be at least 1 turn and maybe 2 full turns further into the dieplate. With SIGNIFICANT cam over, the die set the shoulder back where it was supposed to be.

Then I grabbed a half dozen .mil machinegun-fired 308 brass. I measured the shoulder on one of them, and it was about 15 thou too long. I did the same drill, insert the sizer die until it touches the shellholder, and thread it in an additional 1/4 turn. Didn't even touch the shoulder. I did keep track sort of this time, and ended up threading the die in approximately 1 1/3 extra turn until the shoulder was setback to minimum. From there the drill is the same as always, sort of unthread it maybe 1/8 turn per .002" shoulder measurement, and then sized the rest of the cases, all of which came out PRECISELY at the same measurement using the Stoney Point comparator. I was excited to see how precisely the shoulders were set back, all the same, as I have been using a Lee Turret press until now, and I get about .003 variance in shoulder measurements with the Lee press.

So, traditional die setup on this press does not work. You gotta thread the FL sizer die in about 1 extra turn after you touch the shell holder to get complete sizing

I'm not sure I fully understand the implications of all this. I haven't tried to seat any bullets yet, but I wonder how this behavior will affect bullet seating depth consistency?

GWStaar, do you have a recommendation for an oil to put a drop on the pivots? Thanks.

Third ETA: 6/22 @0812 hrs: This morning I noticed tremendous deflection in the "ram" while resizing. I checked the bolts on the base and on the top of the ram and all were quite loose. Taking a hex key, I snugged all all those bolts down, plus the linkage pivot bolt on the right side of the toggle, and started over. Now I get full resize when I thread the die in 1/2 turn after touching the shell holder. This is a significant improvement as I see it. So I tried snugging that pivot bolt a little bit more, and got that rasping sound as the dieplate reciprocates up and down. So I loosened it maybe 1/8 turn and all was well again. The dies still line up and the press seems to be less "springy."

I haven't tried to resize my high quality Lapua brass yet, which only needs maybe .002" setback on the shoulder. I am reluctant to try to set the shoulder setback dimension on the .mil brass, and then run a Lapua in there, for fear that the shoulder will be excessively setback. So I will back the die out, and slowly turn it in until I begin to touch the shoulder, and set the die at that point, I guess. I think too I might just get a bushing FL die, and use that for my target brass, and leave the FL die for use in my "military styled sporting rifle."

I dunno.

I still haven't tried to seat any bullets with the press.

GW Staar
June 22, 2013, 12:19 PM
RCBS's own instructions says gun oil. That sounds reasonable to me.

Extreme cam over is interesting....must be that much vertical play in the linkage. I did notice that the top bolt holding the top casting to the linkage system uses a smaller diameter bolt than I would've thought they'd use. Actually thought about looking for other sizes, even metric, but cam over works best if the press is centered first...case to die. It may be true that the play there actually helps alignment. The question is...was it a needed "fix" to the original design?

I was called out of town this weekend (family business) so I'm in a hold pattern until I get back. stubbicatt, your review is great keep it coming.

Peter M. Eick
June 23, 2013, 01:00 PM
Yes, please keep up the comments. I am fascinated to hear about the loose bolts and screws. I did not expect it would be an issue but obviously it is.

stubbicatt
June 24, 2013, 07:46 PM
Talked to a young lady at RCBS this morning. Told her of my experience, including the tightening of the bolts, and the requirement of a 1/2 turn of turn-in with FL rifle dies, she says that is "normal." Well, OK!

GW Staar
June 29, 2013, 10:13 PM
Well that's telling....they probably did get it back together right the first time. So I reversed the washer to the right again. Actually does look better even though perfect alignment for the primer pin forced the two "C" linkage parts out of the perfectly parallel state I've been harping on.....what can I say, smooth as a baby's butt.....and now tightening the top bolts and shaft does indeed tighten up the linkage, as talked about in the instructions for seating bullets. Guess I'll leave it on the right.

OK, no more sidetracks....time to do the review thread. You will have to read some of this stuff again in the Review thread...sorry...not going to waste material for it.

Sorry....more sidetracks.....just have been too busy this week. In starting some of the testing, I found that on my press at least, mounting the top bow washer on the right just plain doesn't work.

Was testing .223 and couldn't get a reliable "poke" through the flash hole with the Lee Universal Deprimer. I found that with the washer on the right the linkage would not line up with the shell holder unless the play was ridiculous. Looking at the alignment visually from the front (die against the shellholder) it was off...obviously off. So I moved the stupid bow washer back to the left and all was well. Go figure. Plus when I tightened up the play and adjusted the arms PARALLEL (yes....the bow washer moved back, made parallel arms doable and made me feel better about the linkage system). The die now stays centered...in perfect alignment with the shell plate! The picture below illustrates the alignment...before the die was to one side!!! This adjusting may be more than some customers would put up with, but the results (coming) may make it worth it. Stay tuned, we will see.
http://i935.photobucket.com/albums/ad195/gstrad/Summit/IMG_1529.jpg

codefour
June 30, 2013, 05:32 AM
GW Staar and stubbicatt,

Thank you both for the updates.. They have been very informative. I too am a tinkerer. I was thinking of ordering a Summit press just to tinker with it and figure it out! Yet, $250+ is a lot of $$ that can buy components. I am not frugal when it comes to reloading equipment but I want it to work out of the box as well. But, I like the concept. The shortened stroke of the depriming operation seems worth it. I deprime all my brass before I clean my it.

stubbicatt, look into investing in a Pro 2000 progressive press. It is expensive compared to a turret or a single stage but so very worth the money. It is the best kept secret of the reloading industry.. I took Peter M. Eick's and Gw Starr's word on it before I bought the Pro 2000. I loaded on friend's Dillons and the Hornady AP before I bought the RCBS and I have no regrets getting the Pro 2000! RCBS customer service is second to none..!!

Peter M. Eick
June 30, 2013, 12:37 PM
As soon as I clear off the forums, I am looking forward to an afternoon out of the heat and behind the pro2000. I want to knock out about 2000 9mms today. Great press.

Back to the Summit.

So GW, can you give me a list of the changes you have done to the summit to get to where you are at today?

stubbicatt
June 30, 2013, 01:56 PM
GW Staar and stubbicatt,

stubbicatt, look into investing in a Pro 2000 progressive press. It is expensive compared to a turret or a single stage but so very worth the money. It is the best kept secret of the reloading industry.. I took Peter M. Eick's and Gw Starr's word on it before I bought the Pro 2000. I loaded on friend's Dillons and the Hornady AP before I bought the RCBS and I have no regrets getting the Pro 2000! RCBS customer service is second to none..!!
CodeFour, I appreciate your suggestion, and should I ever be in the market for a progressive, I will certainly consider it. As it is, I shoot so rarely anymore, and when I do it is for my ersatz tactical bolt rifle (a/k/a 308 hunting rifle) and soon my custom 6.5x47, that I just don't need such a press right now.

I had a Dillon 1050 a few years ago, and loaded a metric ton of ammo on that thing and I still have 308 and 223 loaded on that press I haven't shot up yet. I do need to start loading 9mm again... I guess I can use my Lee Turret Press.

stubbicatt
July 1, 2013, 10:44 AM
Yesterday the shellholder pedestal came loose also. I think whoever assembled my press forgot the final torque sequence or something. All of the capscrews holding the thing together were exceedingly loose, and the pedestal nut was also loose.

Unfortunately the pedestal nut required me to unmount the press to gain access to that nut. I snugged it up using purple loctite.

GW Staar
July 1, 2013, 12:58 PM
Stubbicat: Same thing on mine. Note to me for the picture review......suggest that folks line up the shell holder base (pedestal) with the primer ramp and tightening the nut good.....BEFORE mounting.:) Purple locktite? Guess I'm out of the loop....heard of red and blue. I didn't use locktite....guess we will see if I regret that.

Pete: I really haven't done much of anything to the press short of moving the washer to the left side of the top connecting shaft, using calipers to make the linkage bars parallel, and tightening bolts, in such a way as to reduce play, keep alignment, and still have a smooth throw. Of course that doesn't include my making a new primer catcher out of license plate aluminum to fit where I drilled through the bench face for a clear tubing primer drop, but that's an option some won't need or want....the existing primer catcher works...you just have to empty it once in a while.

You mentioned the castings you saw were not as well done as on the Redding presses. I can see that, especially where that top bow washer goes. The casting in the center is on the small side width-wise so there is more than ample room for it to fit (and be aligned) between the Top casting hinge...and where final adjustment (for me) to align well, it shows a way bigger reveal on the side opposite the bow washer. It reminds me of how well '60's era American cars were built, where the reveal around hood and trunks were wide and uneven.:rolleyes:

On the other hand it makes alignment fairly easy (viva bow washers) without the expense of building tolerances to a gnat's eyebrow. Their machining of the castings in this area reinforces the idea that they had no intention of building this press to pass aircraft parts manufacturing quality and tolerances....however it works pretty damned well in spite of it. (in the review I'm preparing I will show pictures to illustrate this.)

stubbicatt
July 1, 2013, 01:09 PM
Stubbicat: Same thing on mine. Note to me for the picture review......suggest that folks line up the shell holder base (pedestal) with the primer ramp and tightening the nut good.....BEFORE mounting.:) Purple locktite? Guess I'm out of the loop....heard of red and blue. I didn't use locktite....guess we will see if I regret that.
LOL. GWStaar. I have red, blue, and purple loctite. I cannot find the blue loctite which I would have used if I could find where I put it. The red requires too much heat and is very strong, so that left me with purple, which is the lowest grip loctite. I too, might regret that...


ETA: Short video review here. (http://bulletin.accurateshooter.com/2013/06/rcbs-summit-press-works-great-in-the-shop-and-in-the-field/)

Peter M. Eick
July 1, 2013, 08:52 PM
GW, your comment about aligning things reminds me of our 68 IH truck. There was nothing on it you could not adjust to get it aligned but maybe the front window. Everything was bolted on so doors, hoods, hinges, bumpers and trim could be adjusted and fixed so it was just right. Worked great till the next time we took it off road and then out with the wrenches so we could aligned back up again.

Hopefully the Summit is a one step alignment.

So where do you stand on it today? Good, bad, indifferent?

GW Staar
July 1, 2013, 10:49 PM
ETA: Short video review here. (http://bulletin.accurateshooter.com/2013/06/rcbs-summit-press-works-great-in-the-shop-and-in-the-field/)

Well that's a good review! Obviously the author has had more time to devote to this new tool than I do.......I like his wooden Van bench.....now I need a van.:) One of the first things I mentioned in previous threads on the Summit is how simple it would be to make it transportable. But for me that's for another day. Right now I want to make it into an asset worthy to add to my existing bench.

His video demo's his custom shell holder riser. That's nifty since indeed the Rock Chucker seats a die deeper into the threads than the Summit by .050"-.060". To cross dies over you need to raise the riser on the Summit or Shim between the die ring and the top of the press threads on the R.C.

I planned to raise the riser also, but NOT that way....the guy's a machinist with skill as well as time...neither do I have. I would think that one could buy machinest arbor shims (http://www.grainger.com/Grainger/Arbor-Shim-5FY66?Pid=search), and add them under the factory riser. I'm guessing on the ID of 1/2"....I will have to unmount the press one more time (glad I didn't locktite it afterall).:)

GW Staar
July 1, 2013, 10:50 PM
GW, your comment about aligning things reminds me of our 68 IH truck. There was nothing on it you could not adjust to get it aligned but maybe the front window. Everything was bolted on so doors, hoods, hinges, bumpers and trim could be adjusted and fixed so it was just right. Worked great till the next time we took it off road and then out with the wrenches so we could aligned back up again.

Hopefully the Summit is a one step alignment.

So where do you stand on it today? Good, bad, indifferent?

LOL! I like the truck comparison! Two things going for the press vs. the truck: Nyloc nuts, and no off road bouncing.:) Hopefully you are right about "one step alignment". (Nylocs will wear out with too much farting around with them.)

Boy you are putting the pressure on:D....and this has been a month from hell timewise. I now have to help my 93 year-old Dad get to bed every night, and he's getting weaker every day.....lately he can't get off the toilet by himself.....even his raised H.C. versions. I've been getting interrupted a lot day and night......but that's all right, making him a comfortable as possible is more important than my hobby time....don't think he has much time left.

Hope you read the Review Stubbicatt linked to: I'm that impressed, so far. But to be fair I haven't started churning out ammo yet. I just bought a case alignment tool and am learning to use it right....a few more days. I lost some time with my daughter coming to visit for a week, and also because my particular press not liking the washer on the right side. I think that is the result of buying too soon......geeze.....this is getting to be a bad habit.....I've NEVER been an early adopter!! First the new bench swager, now the Summit....this is not really a wise habit to get in to.

Give me a few more days......

stubbicatt
July 2, 2013, 10:29 AM
GWStaar, a "case alignment tool?" I haven't heard of that. Is it the same thing as a concentricity gage?

It may be premature to say, but I do not believe you will be able to raise that shell holder pedestal very much, as the threads exposed below the bottom casting onto which that thin nut is threaded can't be much more than .2" long. Any shims between the casting and that pedestal are going to compromise that fastener location.

Seems to me a shim on the die itself would be a better solution, whether for use on the RockChucker at home, or the Summit I'm not entirely clear.

For myself, I mounted the summit and my concentricity gage to a 2x12 for easy transport and installation. I must say that I appreciate the total lack of any torsional forces through the press and into the 2x12, as there is no levering of the table onto which I "C" clamp it, which itself expands the world of possibility as to surfaces on which it will successfully work to include even lightweight tables.

I have decided to buy the short handle at some point in the future as well.

I have yet to seat any bullets, I have only FL resized cases with it, and it is up to the task. I do run the MG fired brass into the die 3 times before extracting it to assure that the shoulders are properly set back to zero. Before I give an unqualified "two thumbs up" I will have to see how well the seating depth is maintained, and how precisely shoulders are set back on my match rifle fired brass, but I feel pretty positive about it.

GW Staar
July 2, 2013, 11:10 AM
Hell, I don't even need stress to forget a term....yes concentricity gauge.

.060 isn't that much. I think there's enough thread on mine. But yes you can buy larger dia. arbor shims to fit between the Dies and the Rock Chucker and do the same thing....but then you have to add the shims every time you change dies.

Jury's still out for me buying another handle.

Peter M. Eick
July 5, 2013, 05:05 PM
I did watch the video which is why I keep on top of this thread. I have not bought the T7 yet and keep wondering. Overall it still is interesting, but I like my loading to be smooth and not stressed like the one I saw at the show.

Part of the reason I am holding off on the T7 is to see where you guys come down on the summit. If it were a reasonable solution I would go that route.

stubbicatt
July 5, 2013, 07:02 PM
GWStaar. How far did you thread in those grub screws in the back of the die carrier? I haven't touched mine.

I have noticed a thick line of grease in the groove in the ram in which they ride, and I wonder whether they should be set deeper?

GW Staar
July 6, 2013, 09:19 PM
Pete: Really sorry I haven't been able to finish this. Just when I think things are going to be smooth sailing for a few days and I can "play"...all hell breaks loose. It's my dear old Dad.....my siblings who could help me with him are all out of town for the 4th Holiday, and his body has chosen this time to break down some more. Been having to "nurse" him every 2 hours or so. Dealing with incontinence, excruciating pain from bone on bone hip and shoulder joints, and the side effects of powerful enough medication to deal with them.

All I can tell you is I'm pretty sure the Summit is going to work great for me, whether or not it will size and seat, holding run-out to .002" or less. I do think beating the Redding T7 at what it does best is not even remotely possible. That thing is the tank of turret presses, but I seriously doubt any turret is the equal of a Rock Chucker or Redding single (using good sizers & seaters) when it comes to run-out. Whether the Summit raises that bar, I don't know yet, but I doubt it's the equal to a good arbor press.

The review is going to take a while longer.

Stubbicatt: the alignment screws into the back of the ram are only for side to side alignment and therefore have to go in enough to align without too much friction and at the same time be in enough to limit side to side play. I screwed mine in maybe 1/8" shy of touching the back of the key....strictly arbitrary as long as you don't hit the back of the key anywhere in the stroke. That deep doesn't seem to cause any noticeable friction.

stubbicatt
July 7, 2013, 09:05 AM
Sorry about your dad, GWStaar.

FWIW, resizing 308 Lapua brass in Lee die sans decapper/expander assembly, I'm getting right at .001" runout on the neck. I haven't seated any bullets yet, so I cannot comment. Upon using a neck expander, the runout increases about 1/2 a thou.

It also took 1 1/4 turns in of the FL die to get proper shoulder setback. Neat thing is, that once you reach the point in the adjustment where you get the desired setback, it is quite consistent, and if you unthread the die a bit, you can make fine adjustments to the shoulder bump.

Truthfully what is disturbing to me is the amount of flex this press must have. Typical "O" frame presses you thread the die in to touch the shell holder, add maybe 1/4 turn and you are set. Not this one.

Peter M. Eick
July 7, 2013, 09:43 AM
I am also sorry to hear about your dad GW. I understand completely.

Obviously take your time on the summit review. It appears as if mostly the 3 of us are talking about the press and others are just watching and reading. Lets just keep this thread alive and we can all learn together.

The video referenced above showed the summit mounted to a trailer hitch. That really intrigued me as it would work well for when I travel. I tend to have big blocks of dead time in the field which is where I could use such a press.

So, I am looking forward to the runout report. In the meantime I will continue to thing about the T7 and load rifle on my rockchucker.

Elkins45
July 11, 2013, 11:40 PM
Sorry about your dad GW. I lost mine a few years ago under similar circumstances so I know how you must be feeling.

I want to switch to a new press but I just hate the thought of having to readjust all of my rifle dies to the correct headspace all over again. The Summit would have to be a REALLY great press to make me go to all of that bother. Add me to the list of people who are interested in how this press proves itself.

stubbicatt
July 12, 2013, 09:12 AM
ETA: I retracted this posting which really panned on this press. See my posting below.

stubbicatt
July 13, 2013, 09:42 AM
Update: With the assistance of contributors on another forum, I have determined that while the press does have some flex, my issue is due to a rifle chamber which is shorter than the standard FL sizing dies I have available for it to resize brass. Please disregard my postings re: excessive flexing and excessive force required to resize my brass, as I have determined the real cause, and that cause is not the Summit. I feel bad for attributing these problems to the press when they were really the issue of too short a rifle chamber for the standard dies available.

I am keeping my Summit, and feel foolish for having misled you guys. I hope this posting clears things up.

Given that the Summit works as intended, and is smooth and doesn't hang over the edge of the table, I am revising my opinion to a two thumbs up.

Regards,
Stubb.

HexHead
July 13, 2013, 09:50 AM
Does it spill primers all over the floor when you try to empty the primer catcher like the Rock Chucker does? Is the Lyman Crusher II any better in this regard, or am I going to have to get a Redding with the tube? I have carpet in the room I reload in, and spilt primers are a concern for me.

GW Staar
July 13, 2013, 05:35 PM
http://i935.photobucket.com/albums/ad195/gstrad/Summit/IMG_1525.jpg

Hmmm, mine only drops primers in a bucket.:rolleyes:

I played with it before the mod and didn't find it difficult to empty.....but then a bull in a china shop might have trouble. Anyway...no worries now.

http://i935.photobucket.com/albums/ad195/gstrad/Summit/IMG_1526.jpg

(before grinding to shape) A+B Epoxy and bent alum. license plate blank. Set my press at a angle for a reason....will explain in a minute. Still using clear plastic tubing from Linens & Things....love that stuff. This picture is a reminder to folks that tho from a distance a part I make might look like someone with machining talent made it......not so.:) A drill, vice, hammer, and grinder to this stage....round file & dremel and canned black auto-trim paint will finish it (and hide the flaws).

If I angle the press, I can sit directly in front of it and up close without the handle hitting me. Plus I can use the Rock Chucker next to it from the same seating position, at the same time....not to mention the Swager and Trim Mate too.

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