Functional family heirloom weapons?


PDA






P95Carry
March 16, 2004, 09:56 PM
The passing on and aquisition of ''family'' guns seems to be sadly becoming something of a dying trend. I cannot personally claim to own any ''family treasures'' in the firearms sense but know one or two people who do ..... one has a 'trap door' which is still functional... and the other a real old .22 bolt the make of which I am not even sure.

Let's say stuff in the approx 100 yr old category - who here is lucky in this respect?

(Any pics would be a real bonus)

If you enjoyed reading about "Functional family heirloom weapons?" here in TheHighRoad.org archive, you'll LOVE our community. Come join TheHighRoad.org today for the full version!
mlheppl
March 16, 2004, 10:04 PM
I've got a 69 cal muzzle loader. Supposedly it was carried in the civil war. I don't know if it's true or not, but who knows. There's very little stamping on the bbl. I don't know the gun maker. I'll try to post pics tomorrow AM as I'm at work now. (Cheating :D ) I haven't shot the gun in about 15 yrs, but is still functional and relatively accurate. The gun kicks like a mule with a round ball and 250 grns of black powder.

P95Carry
March 16, 2004, 10:12 PM
round ball and 250 grns of black powder. WHAT??? 250 grains ....... http://www.bedford.net/design/images/smilies/yikes.gif

Hell ... I thought 3 1/2 drams (95 grains) in my .577 2 band musketoon was a heavy load"!!!!!! Are you serious .. even allowing for .69 cal!!?? I can't believe the gun would take it.... that's 0.6 of an ounce nearly!

That'd be more a kick like a supercharged mustang than a mule ... geez!:p

mlheppl
March 16, 2004, 10:28 PM
The last time that I shot the gun, it was still in my Dad's possession. We wanted to see what max load for the rifle was. We had been shooting 200 grains of black powder out of it. We rolled paper out in front of the bbl. The plan was to start at 200 grains of powder, and increase the charge by 5 grains until unburnt powder was blown onto the paper. We stopped at 250 grains and never had unburnt powder evidence on the paper. We stopped there because the gun was punishing us pretty good. When we took the gun apart for cleaning, it showed no signs of stress and the stock held up well.

4v50 Gary
March 16, 2004, 10:34 PM
Got an "I" frame S&W .38 S&W revolver my grandfather bought for gang wars. They use to go to the country to practice.

P95Carry
March 16, 2004, 10:34 PM
it showed no signs of stress and the stock held up well Incredible!!:p

GigaBuist
March 16, 2004, 10:36 PM
I know somebody that recently inherited some Civil War era firearms. One was a muzzle loading pistol. Being law abiding people the woman took them to the police department for registration, not knowing what to do with them.

Well, they informed here that either she'd have to get a serial number stamped on this antique arm or have the barrel filled with molten steel. They weren't fond of that idea and were rather irked at the whole situtation. Apparently nobody in the family owned a modern pistol, else they'd have known the rules and just kept quiet about it.

Last I knew they just tucked it away and never brought it back. Can't say I blame them.

Jim K
March 16, 2004, 10:44 PM
WOW! I'll bet it kicked, and it is a wonder it stayed in one piece. The standard charge for the .69 caliber musket was 70 grains!

Jim

rust collector
March 16, 2004, 10:44 PM
We have a Colt 1861 Navy in the family, low 4 digit serial, inherited from a horse-trading uncle of my Dad's. Don't know much about him, sure wish the old charcoal burner could talk.

Dad's old Fox Sterlingworth does talk every pheasant season, when I take it out a time or two so it won't forget how to spank roosters. I bought a little Savage (Valmet) 20 ga for Dad in his later years, and he's gifted it back to me, but means a lot more because he used it for 15 years or so.

My son will inherit these when I'm done with them. They gave joy to Dad and they'll keep on giving smiles for a long time to come.

mlheppl
March 17, 2004, 12:07 AM
I called Dad on the way home from work. I asked him about the loads we shot in the ol' 69. I was off a bit. The max load we shot that day was 200 grains of ffg. Quite an exageration from 250 grains, sorry about that. I apologize for posting erroneously. It seems my memory is not as sharp as I thought. :(

Stickjockey
March 17, 2004, 02:56 AM
When my Grandfather died he left me his Smith & Wesson Model 12 Airweight that he'd carried throughout his career with the FBI and his 1929 commercial 1911 purchased surplus from the USMC (still have the reciept, too- $12.50, all told!)

Unofficially, I also inherited his 1903 Springfield and his Colt Model 1875 Lightning as well.

SMLE
March 17, 2004, 08:43 AM
WOW! I'll bet it kicked, and it is a wonder it stayed in one piece. The standard charge for the .69 caliber musket was 70 grains! That was the charge for the .69 minie ball.

The 1837 specs were as follows;

Musket cartridge; Ball dia. .64". weight 397.5 grns. Powder charge 144 grns. including 8-10 grns. for priming. "Buck & Ball" cartridge was the 144 grn charge with the addition of 3 .31" buckshot on top of the round ball.*

The 1841 manual listed the ball dia. as .64". weight = 18 per pound. Charge 130 grns. Musket powder. The musketoon load was the same ball on 85 grns. Musket powder. Buck and Ball load used the 130 grn. charge with 1 ball & 3 buckshot.*

The 1849 specs were as follows;

Musket cartridge; Ball dia. .65" 17 balls per pound. Powder charge 110 grns. Musket powder. The musketoon load was the same ball on 75 grns. Musket powder. Buck and Ball load used the 110 grn. charge also adding 3 buckshot.*

The 1855 specs for the "altered" musket list a ball dia. of .685" and a weight of 730 grns. on a charge of 70 grns. Musket powder. This is the Minie ball cartridge for the 1842 Rifle Musket.*

*Source: "Small Arms Ammunition in United States Service. 1776- 1865 by Berkley R. Lewis. Smithsonian Institution Press 1956. Smithsonian Publication Number 4254

I have a .69 cal. musket and shoot it with a charge of 110 grns Fg black powder. The Fg seems to better represent the Musket powder than does FFg. Experimentation with substituting Fg in place of FFg in loads for both .69 and .58 cal. Muskets and Rifle Muskets resulted in bullets hitting the same point of aim with noticably less felt recoil. Weapons used by myself and my brother were; Original 1777 French .69 cal musket (perc. conv.) , Original Harper's Ferry 1842 Perc. Musket, Euroarms repro 1853 Enfield "3 band" Rifle Musket, Parker Hale repro 1858 "2 band" Rifle and Antonio Zoli "Zouave" Rifle. We used the same bullets/balls and the same volume measures of powder.

iamkris
March 17, 2004, 09:19 AM
I have three family heirlooms -- all inherited from my maternal grandfather who died before I was born -- which is remarkable since I'm the only one in my family or extended family that likes to shoot. They are mixed into this "family portrait".

http://home.att.net/~richranch/wsb/media/157425/site1021.JPG

The first rifle from the bottom is my maternal grandfather's 1873 Springfield Trapdoor. He used to shoot it once a year on New Year's Eve. I took it to the range and shot it this year (probably the first time it has been shot for at least 50 years.). With a mild .45-70 handload it printed 3/4" at 50 yards but 18" high.

The forth rifle from the bottom is his Mannlicher Berthier M.1892 in 8mm Lebel. He reportedly brought it home as a war trophy. I have a full box of vintage Remington 8mm Lebel ammo but I have never shot this rifle...the brass is obsolete and is VERY expensive. The rifle is in excellent shape and I have no reason to believe it wouldn't function.

The last firearm I have from my grandfather is an 1897 Winchester Takedown 12 ga shotgun. It is the first shotgun from the left (on an angle). It is an E-model and the serial number indicates it was manufactured in 1913. My grandfather took innumerrable rabbits and pheasants with this shotgun. I've never hunted with it but run several hundred rounds through it each year in Cowboy Action Shooting.

The rest are personally acquired and, God willing and the UN don't take over, my grandchildren will own them.

mlheppl
March 17, 2004, 09:32 AM
pic of the ol' 69.

mlheppl
March 17, 2004, 09:34 AM
one more.

Gus Dddysgrl
March 17, 2004, 09:54 AM
Daddy din't die yet and hopefully won't for a long time. Till then I doubt I'll get any from him. He likes all his and doesn't like to give them up even if he never shoots them. (Jon really likes one that daddy doesn't shoot and I'm trying to convince Daddy to sell it to me so I can give it to Jon.)

Otherwise most of my family is not into guns and the ones my g-pa had have been spread out to several people and dad is trying to get one from my uncle now.

I hope to pass mine and Jon's onto our kids someday.

lee n. field
March 17, 2004, 09:54 AM
Not me, but somebody in my extended family:

My paternal grandfather had enough stuff that each of his sons, and all of their sons, got their choice of his guns. I ended up with an AYA 20 gauge double (got some problems, someday I'll find someone competant to fix it, but will never sell). Among his guns were some fairly old stuff -- I remember a .32 rimfire rifle, and a kid's training rifle (.22 single shot, small), that had to date from 190? or before.

There's a rumor that he had a pair of Colt autoloaders, but nobody admits to knowing what happened to them. <sigh>. There certainly was some .45 ACP and .38 Auto ammo among his effects.

Daniel T
March 17, 2004, 10:07 AM
Well, they informed here that either she'd have to get a serial number stamped on this antique arm or have the barrel filled with molten steel. They weren't fond of that idea and were rather irked at the whole situtation. Apparently nobody in the family owned a modern pistol, else they'd have known the rules and just kept quiet about it.

Michigan law treats muzzleloading blackpowder arms the same as modern firearms?

grimlock
March 17, 2004, 10:18 AM
I've got an S&W .38Spl that my great-grandfather bought in Oklahoma Territory in the early years of the 1900s.

armoredman
March 17, 2004, 10:18 AM
To my eternal shame I had an old Mossy shotgun from my grandfather, and it was sold for gas and baby food some time ago. It didn't even have a serial number. the dealer kept it for some time in the back in hopes I could raise the money to get it back, but I lost my job, and it went to a collector.
My pistol I hope to leave to my son, and I believe my stepfather's old Smith model 10 will be coming my way when the unfortunate happens.:(

Trebor
March 17, 2004, 12:20 PM
Well, they informed here that either she'd have to get a serial number stamped on this antique arm or have the barrel filled with molten steel. They weren't fond of that idea and were rather irked at the whole situtation. Apparently nobody in the family owned a modern pistol, else they'd have known the rules and just kept quiet about it.
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------



Michigan law treats muzzleloading blackpowder arms the same as modern firearms?

Not exactly. I don't know all the specifics off the top of my head, but evidently, neither did the cops in that story.

Brian Williams
March 17, 2004, 12:44 PM
I have a nice stevens 14-1/2 22lr that needs a new firing pin, looks like this one. I got mine from my Maternal grandfather who died pre-brian
http://www.thehighroad.org/attachment.php?s=&postid=875022

Pendragon
March 17, 2004, 01:07 PM
Just before I moved to Texas, my dad gave me his Winchester Model 63 - I think its from the 1930s, possibly late 1920s - its a tube fed .22LR semi with a scope (2.5x fixed) and a leather scabbard.

The gun is in around 85% condition and looks very nice - I broke the firing pin almost 2 years ago and need to get it fixed.

It belonged to my fathers grandfather - an interesting character that my dad really looked up to.

He said when he was a kid, he had a single shot .22 but shells were hard to come by. His granddad called on the phone and asked how he was. My dad said "fine" - grandfather said "wanna bet a box of shells that you aint fine?" - my dad says "OK!" - next time granddad shows up, he has a whole case of .22 :cool:

Poodleshooter
March 17, 2004, 05:40 PM
The oldest in my family is my great great grandfather's damascus twist Daniel Lefever SxS,as well as several guns approaching 100years old. Those are in my dad's possession,but will pass to me someday. My wife's family retains a nice original 1861 Springfield .58 rifle musket.

Sylvilagus Aquaticus
March 17, 2004, 07:43 PM
My brother currently has posession of my grandmother's Remington Targetmaster single shot .22 she used to carry in the trunk of her Cadillac. I got my first crow on the wing with that rifle. I have my grandfather's Winchester Model 12 in the muttonleg leather case with a spare barrel, in 16 gauge, my brother has his model 42. Both were purchased about the same time in the early 30's. I have an old barrel set from a blackpowder shotgun that was in the old family home when it burned, but noone knows anything about its' history, which is a shame in its' own right.

Regards,
Rabbit.

P95Carry
March 17, 2004, 07:58 PM
Thx guys ... already seems encouraging that there are quite a few real pieces of history in safe custody ... cherish them.:)

Kamicosmos
March 18, 2004, 10:35 AM
I've got quite a few of both of my grandfathers collections, which includes parts of thier father's and grandfather's collections.
Highlights:
1916 Luger
1945 Nambu Type 94
several .22s ranging from 1890's-1950's of my Great Grandfather's.
Couple old 1870's blackpowder SxS shotguns from my Great x2 Grandfather.

If you enjoyed reading about "Functional family heirloom weapons?" here in TheHighRoad.org archive, you'll LOVE our community. Come join TheHighRoad.org today for the full version!