!SXS flintlock 19 (20) gauge!


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BlackNet
May 4, 2013, 12:23 AM
This came in the mail today.

Bore diameter: .624" (20 gauge is .615, 19 gauge is .626)

OAL: 44 3/4"
Barrel length: 28"
Flint size: 3/4"
Breech plug: Hooked and patten 15/16" deep


https://fbcdn-sphotos-b-a.akamaihd.net/hphotos-ak-prn1/944938_4836608554988_1402018337_n.jpg

https://fbcdn-sphotos-g-a.akamaihd.net/hphotos-ak-ash4/217067_4837333533112_2091347969_n.jpg


This is the underbelly of the beast.
https://sphotos-b.xx.fbcdn.net/hphotos-ash4/389036_4836610395034_1693610965_n.jpg

https://fbcdn-sphotos-g-a.akamaihd.net/hphotos-ak-frc1/302731_4836611275056_1317581587_n.jpg

https://fbcdn-sphotos-f-a.akamaihd.net/hphotos-ak-ash4/3582_4836612995099_1309910427_n.jpg

https://sphotos-b.xx.fbcdn.net/hphotos-ash3/940926_4836609275006_1790932547_n.jpg

Locks:
https://fbcdn-sphotos-g-a.akamaihd.net/hphotos-ak-ash3/941885_4836614555138_1469338865_n.jpg

Pan needs some work.
https://fbcdn-sphotos-d-a.akamaihd.net/hphotos-ak-ash3/947099_4836615595164_521734829_n.jpg

https://fbcdn-sphotos-b-a.akamaihd.net/hphotos-ak-ash3/936932_4836638875746_1462393401_n.jpg

https://sphotos-a.xx.fbcdn.net/hphotos-prn1/923497_4836626555438_1872009249_n.jpg

Barrel needs a bit of cleanup on the side. There is a good amount of grease on everything for packing/storage/shipping.
https://fbcdn-sphotos-h-a.akamaihd.net/hphotos-ak-ash3/942414_4836638555738_718216497_n.jpg

https://fbcdn-sphotos-a-a.akamaihd.net/hphotos-ak-ash3/944563_4837333173103_539632167_n.jpg

Mind you this is all before cleanup so it should look much better once that is done.


This is lube of some form and it will clean up nicely.

https://fbcdn-sphotos-a-a.akamaihd.net/hphotos-ak-frc1/417950_4836614795144_1345238519_n.jpg

There you have it. SXS flintlock from Middlesex Trading village in charlestown, New Hampshire. I think overall quality is not bad, I have seen much much worse and I was somewhat expecting finish to be slightly higher but I can do that myself. It is a field grade firearm and to be used there. It is not a closet/safe queen by no means

Here is a short video I made with my iphone for the locks.
http://youtu.be/uN6JiY7A9pM

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BlackNet
May 4, 2013, 12:24 AM
Some follow up.

Barrel inspection.
https://fbcdn-sphotos-e-a.akamaihd.net/hphotos-ak-ash3/601943_4836613875121_441861404_n.jpg

https://fbcdn-sphotos-c-a.akamaihd.net/hphotos-ak-ash4/248094_4836613395109_241318059_n.jpg

Wedge key and pipe, note it is hand made.
https://fbcdn-sphotos-c-a.akamaihd.net/hphotos-ak-ash3/524835_4837448095976_337463984_n.jpg

https://sphotos-b.xx.fbcdn.net/hphotos-ash3/601001_4837446655940_172184158_n.jpg

Last up proof marks on the barrels.
https://fbcdn-sphotos-a-a.akamaihd.net/hphotos-ak-ash3/942582_4837447095951_1643123476_n.jpg

kwhi43@kc.rr.com
May 4, 2013, 12:35 AM
With the risk of offending you, I would hang it on the wall. And leave it on the wall!

BlackNet
May 4, 2013, 12:37 AM
That would not offend me at all!! I have been thinking for some time to put some wall hooks up so I can hang it on the wall :) HUGE difference between a wall gun and a safe queen :) A safe queen is that 98% original damascus barrel from the 1800's that may have been fired 5 times since then.

Texan Scott
May 4, 2013, 12:55 AM
I don't know the first thing about flintlocks, dunno how practical that would be... but it sure looks like a whole lotta fun!

I hope you enjoy it... I'm gonna start my own thread begging smarter people than myself to explain flintlocks to me. :p

BCRider
May 4, 2013, 02:39 AM
Scott, when you see the flash of flame and smoke upon pulling the trigger on a flinter for your first time you'll either drop the darn thing and run away or smile with a big toothy grin. If you smile then you're sunk like a stone right then and there..... :D

I enjoy all the firearms I've chosen to own. But there's simply no doubt at all that my flintlock is a whole other experience from ANY cap or cartridge gun. The fact that it's a Lyman Great Plains Rifle with a really good barrel that shoots darn accurately is a big hunk o' icing on a great piece o' cake.

And I do concur on your observation that this double barrel looks like a heap of fun. It's sort of like a hunk of Double Mint chewing gum, "Double your pleasure. Double your fun".... :D

Caliper_RWVA
May 4, 2013, 09:03 AM
Very cool! Coincidentally, I was just looking at this very gun on their website...

How practical would this be for actually breaking clay? Probably just clay flung from a spring powered launcher and not on a "real" trap field, but smoke, fire, the smell of BP AND breaking clay sounds like a great afternoon! :D

Patocazador
May 4, 2013, 09:58 AM
Are those little spots in and on the barrels dirt or pits?

4v50 Gary
May 4, 2013, 10:02 AM
I'd tie it to a rubber tire to proof it myself first.

BlackNet
May 4, 2013, 10:48 AM
Yes 4v50Gary I have been discussing that very subject last night with a gunsmith and long distance shooter that I know. There has been some interesting rumors floating around the net and I am aware of them as well, I also ask the company when I bought it about those rumors to. I always try to error on the side of caution.

Those spots on the barrel is mostly dirt. everything was covered with grease/oil/lube of some form and I did clean out the inside of the barrels last night. There is no pitting that I could see.

BlackNet
May 4, 2013, 03:28 PM
Some updates.


:Barrel dimentsions:

ID of Bore: L .624, R .623

:ID:
Muzzle end: L .746, LW .061; R .738, RW .0565
1st ramrod: L .746, LW .061; R .740, RW .0585
2nd ramrod: L .750, LW .063; R .753, RW .065
3rd ramrod: L .820, LW .098; R .816, RW .0965
Breech end: L .891, LW .1335; R .886, RW .1015
Breech plug: L .910, LW ..323; R .910, RW .323

L = Left barrel OD.
R = Right barrel OD.
LW = Left barrel wall thickness.
RW = Right barrel wall thickness.

Instead of buying some fancy gauge to do wall thickness I did (Bore ID diameter - OD diameter) / 2 = wall thickness. This is not perfect exact science by no means but good inspection shows the barrel ID is not contoured like a shotgun should be.

Breech plug I measured the distance of a rod through the touch hole.

I was informed the date code on the barrel is *NOT* the manufacture date but the acceptance stamp of the shop to make that type of firearm and that the real date of production of the barrels was April 2013 (last month)

M-Cameron
May 4, 2013, 04:20 PM
where did you get it?

BlackNet
May 4, 2013, 04:49 PM
Middlesex trading village.

BHP FAN
May 4, 2013, 07:52 PM
Saweeet!

winterhorse290
May 4, 2013, 09:29 PM
think it might be made as a wall hanger like all those tower flintlocks that where all over the place in the early 70,s. hammers look the same. don,t think i,d try to fire it without a good BLACKPOWDER gunsmith going thru it. might also try some primer in the pans and see if the frizzens are hardened. you could always just fire blanks.

winterhorse290
May 4, 2013, 09:32 PM
just took another close look. the touchholes are kind of low in the pan and WAY to big. God help anybody stand beside you on a firering line.

BlackNet
May 4, 2013, 10:25 PM
winterhorse290, how 'big' do you think those touch holes are?

kwhi43@kc.rr.com
May 4, 2013, 10:49 PM
Edited

BlackNet
May 4, 2013, 10:53 PM
That picture is from a small bore PISTOL. While in pistols a 1/16" is about the max you want to go. There are many documented cases where SHOTGUNS, BROWN BESS and others need a larger touch hole. That really depends on bore diameter, design and other areas.

kwhi43@kc.rr.com
May 4, 2013, 11:12 PM
I know for a fact that rifles up to 58 cal. You should use a 1/16 dia touch hole.
Anything much over .078 they should be replaced. 3/32 is WAY to big. I use
A 1/16 in my 50 cal rifle. I really don't think the range officer would allow anything that looked
Like that shotgun to be fired on the line at the Nationals, or most ranges.

GCBurner
May 4, 2013, 11:15 PM
I believe shooting 1F powder in a musket or shotgun requires a somewhat larger touchole than shooting 3F powder in a pistol. Reading the Middlesex Village Trading FAQ, they say that the barrels come unvented from India, and can be purchased either unvented or vented, depending on the laws at their final destination. For people wanting shooters rather than wall hangers, MVT drills the touchole and tests and adjusts the flintlock before shipping, according the their FAQ. They sell a lot of guns to reenactors up there in New England, including matchlocks, dog locks, snaphaunce, and French and English style flintlocks and percussion locks.

kwhi43@kc.rr.com
May 5, 2013, 12:45 AM
I guess they ought to know. I'm done.

BlackNet
May 5, 2013, 12:53 AM
Quite frankly there is not many double flints out there and the ones that you do see is stupidly expensive , read middle + 4 digit figures. So in light of this I am quite pleased with what I got and that it is usable (will be doing clays at the local range with 2-3 others) I can do upgrades to it as needed or what ever else is required. Even if she ends up as a wall hanger and never goes to the range then my purpose has been served very well with this project.

Many years ago when I started getting into building I bought the book recreating the double barrel shotgun by William R. Brockway. In this book I saw a good number of double flints and at that moment I said one day I *WILL* have me one. One condition was it had to be 100% functional (no point in having something that is not functional) BTW I am also on the lookout for a good Damascus double.

https://fbcdn-sphotos-d-a.akamaihd.net/hphotos-ak-prn1/941226_4841426315429_315221259_n.jpg

https://fbcdn-sphotos-h-a.akamaihd.net/hphotos-ak-snc6/182531_4841425795416_1513835401_n.jpg


Some has voiced many concern over double flints being 'to wide'. While it is true that flintlock double does indeed present the 'wide load coming through!' factor. Width including the lock springs, frizzen in this case, is 3.3" wide. The wood width at the widest point is 2.5". I would like to point out here the difference in double 20 gauge and double 12 gauge on the barrels is around 1/4" in the bore diameter.

https://fbcdn-sphotos-f-a.akamaihd.net/hphotos-ak-ash4/397836_4841426155425_548581371_n.jpg

Pete D.
May 5, 2013, 05:51 AM
I am curious. Have you tried the locks? I ask because, some years ago now, I purchased a Howdah pistol from Middlesex. It is a cap lock gun.
When it arrived, it had absolutely the worst trigger that I have ever tried to use. It had to have been between 30 and 40 pounds. Took two fingers on it to get it to fire.
Rather than return the gun, I opted to refine the locks and now they work much, much better.
So...I am wondering about this new acquisition of yours.
Btw...I have a flintlock blunderbuss from Middlesex which did not have the problem that the pistol had. It has a touch hole similar to the one in the pic and has proven, over the years, to be safe to fire. With its 14 inch barrel, it is a real hoot to shoot..
Pete

BlackNet
May 5, 2013, 08:50 AM
One of the things that I have heard was some people were replacing the locks or doing work on the locks. From what I can see they do work good but there is some touch-up work needed on the pan, it is to rough for my taste. As for weight pull I do not have a trigger pull gauge, I really need to buy one, but it is not a hard pull.


Pete, Yes I did, I even posted a short video on youtube of the locks from 2 different angles http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uN6JiY7A9pM

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