is the 300blk passing fad or permanent trend??


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greyling22
May 5, 2013, 02:50 PM
Gaze into your crystal ball and tell me: Is the 300 blk something of a fad that will pass and then there will be a lots of lightly used uppers and reloading bits coming to market, or is it a permanent hotness and there will rarely be used bits available?

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gbeecher
May 5, 2013, 03:22 PM
Neither one, I think it fills a needed void in caliber/cartridge for the AR platform. Special operators especially will probably find a need for it.

Ken70
May 5, 2013, 04:05 PM
OP, bet you own a 6.8 SPC. That's the one that is going to be a passing fad. Ammo is expensive, buyer at Walmart accidentally ordered some; that mistake will be corrected.

300 exact opposite, just reform 5.56 or .223 brass, .30 caliber bullets, you're in business. If you can legally own a can, even better...shooting and not annoying the neighbors into calling cops.

Warp
May 5, 2013, 04:29 PM
Gaze into your crystal ball and tell me: Is the 300 blk something of a fad that will pass and then there will be a lots of lightly used uppers and reloading bits coming to market, or is it a permanent hotness and there will rarely be used bits available?

I believe it won't disappear, but it will never be mainstream.

Think 10mm AUTO.

It'll be out there, but selection/pricing/availability will NEVER even touch that of a major player like 5.56/.223. But I do believe .300 will demolish cartridges like 6.8 going forward.

With the .300 all you really need to swap is the barrel. Everything else is the same, even the same magazines, as 5.56/.223. Same basic brass. Common .30 bullets. Great suppressed, great in a short barrel, a decent amount of manufacturers of it (considering), what's not to like?

peyton
May 5, 2013, 04:44 PM
I got two rifles in 300 blackout. At Christmas I went home for R&R from Afghanistan and could not find one bullet to shoot out of them:( Still, I think it will stick around, it gives more performance than the 30 carbine and not the recoil of the .308.

meanmrmustard
May 5, 2013, 05:20 PM
I'd like to have one for hogs, sadly, hogs haven't been a nuisance here yet for which I'd have a reason to buy a BLK.

That said, I don't shoot suppressed often nor really need to. I can get the job done, whatever that may be, with heavier 5.56 rounds. If I need barrier penetration, I have 762x39.

I wouldn't say its like 10mm Auto. But rather, kinda like 357 SIG: While its fun to shoot, if you don't reload it's expensive. I can get 10mm cheaper than Sig locally, same with 556 vs 300.

It's a one trick pony: Suppression is where it shines. If you go "can less", its an answer sans question.

SharpsDressedMan
May 5, 2013, 05:28 PM
The 300BLK is just AAC's and Remington's grab at commercializing the .300 Whisper and making some money. J.D., Jones was the first to wildcat it, and he tried to make it "proprietary" so HE got all the money and controlled manufacture, etc. AAC and Rem found the way around that, and offered it mainstream. It's been around for maybe 20 years. It isn't going away.

Warp
May 5, 2013, 05:53 PM
I'd like to have one for hogs, sadly, hogs haven't been a nuisance here yet for which I'd have a reason to buy a BLK.

That said, I don't shoot suppressed often nor really need to. I can get the job done, whatever that may be, with heavier 5.56 rounds. If I need barrier penetration, I have 762x39.

I wouldn't say its like 10mm Auto. But rather, kinda like 357 SIG: While its fun to shoot, if you don't reload it's expensive. I can get 10mm cheaper than Sig locally, same with 556 vs 300.

It's a one trick pony: Suppression is where it shines. If you go "can less", its an answer sans question.

You can probably get "10mm", aka .40 S&W in a longer case, for less than .357 SIG

Walkalong
May 5, 2013, 06:04 PM
It's here to stay. It will never reach .223/5.56 popularity in the AR, but it will have a strong following both in sub sonic and super sonic loadings.

My wife shot .223, 9MM, and .300 BLK ARs today. She picked the .300 for the pink AR she wants. (Supersonic 147 pulled bullets)

Yep, here to stay. :)

MagnumDweeb
May 5, 2013, 06:15 PM
You reload your .223 brass four times then trim and resize it for .300 BO. Take .308 projectiles (uses the same bullets found in .308 Winchester) and you are good to go. Factory ammo is a tad expensive but reloads are great. Get a slight crack in the head of the cartridge then trim down to the shoulder and resize it to spec and you have a .300 BO cartridge. I have over five hundred spent rounds of .223 brass that I've reloaded over four times that have been cleaned and deprimed waiting to be turned into .300 BO come December when things calm down.

I cast 245 Grain LRN rounds and shoot it at 1100 fps out to fifty yards for easy shooting, or I can load it to 135 grain FMJ and do 2000 fps for one hundred yard shooting. It's main advantage is that even with suppressed sub-sonic ammo, you can still use a slide-fire stock.

.300 BO may never go mainstream, but it will have a place amongst salvagers like me.

Sheepdog1968
May 5, 2013, 06:20 PM
I'm of the the opinion that we have had all the cartridges we have needed for at least the last 50 years (5.56x45 is close enough to 50 yrs old). I could make a strong argument we've had all that we have needed for the last 100 years.

Walkalong
May 5, 2013, 06:23 PM
Need is one thing and want is a whole nother thing.

Comrade Mike
May 5, 2013, 06:28 PM
My guess is it's another AR fad round that will be cool for a whole and then fade to obscurity. The .223 is here to stay.

meanmrmustard
May 5, 2013, 06:29 PM
You can probably get "10mm", aka .40 S&W in a longer case, for less than .357 SIG
Nope, dumbed down, plain vanilla 10mm Auto. Not Norma, but not short and weak either.

I shop locally, and tend to find good deals at hardware stores, gun shops, and I'm a 20 minute drive from Grafs.

Still cheaper than Sig.

Warp
May 5, 2013, 07:05 PM
I'm of the the opinion that we have had all the cartridges we have needed for at least the last 50 years (5.56x45 is close enough to 50 yrs old). I could make a strong argument we've had all that we have needed for the last 100 years.

Except there are newer cartridges that do things you couldn't/can't do with the old ones.

greyling22
May 5, 2013, 07:10 PM
nope, no 6.8, in fact, I sold my 223 upper right before the latest insanity. still kicking myself on that one. like new predator pursuit for 575........... sigh.

I've been thinking of picking up a blackout upper and loading it with cast 200grn bullets, but I'd love to find somebody getting out of it and not pay new price for it. Certainly not panic price for it. I was just wondering if I waited a year or two if there would be a glut of unwanted uppers on the market, or if they were all going to be snapped up and kept like they currently are.

meanmrmustard
May 5, 2013, 07:19 PM
One must remember there are a few also that companies have tried to build upon or better, succeeding really in neither.

6.5x55 Swedish comes to mind. Over 100 years later, and its still one of the best 6.5 cartridges out there, really only hindered by the long action needed. Just an example, as I can buy 6.5 Swede cheap, and don't reload it myself.

That said, it is my opinion that it is a good cartridge for the AR platform; the rifle can be swapped to different niche cartridges via changing uppers and bolts/barrels accordingly.

-v-
May 5, 2013, 07:45 PM
I'd say it'll stick around. Its biggest selling point is all you need is a barrel change to shoot .300BLK out of an AR15. No new bolt, no new mags, nothing else changes. The new bolt(?) and different mag that 6.8 SPC needs is a bit of a turn-off for some people since thats an entire new investment. Plus since 300BLK brass can be made from .223 brass will also ensure it sticks around for quite a while.

wally
May 5, 2013, 07:51 PM
Except there are newer cartridges that do things you couldn't/can't do with the old ones.

Fer instance?

Warp
May 5, 2013, 07:54 PM
Fer instance?

Does the .45 ACP fit into a pistol the size of which will fit .45 GAP? (grip size mostly)

What 50+ year old cartridge can be fired in a rifle that was a standard AR15 chambered in 5.56 with nothing more than a barrel swap, same everything else?

What cartridge out of an AR will do what .300 does suppressed with a short barrel?

What semi auto cartridge fits into a .45 ACP size pistol and provides full-house .357 magnum power levels?

Ken70
May 5, 2013, 08:02 PM
nope, no 6.8, in fact, I sold my 223 upper right before the latest insanity. still kicking myself on that one. like new predator pursuit for 575........... sigh.

I've been thinking of picking up a blackout upper and loading it with cast 200grn bullets, but I'd love to find somebody getting out of it and not pay new price for it. Certainly not panic price for it. I was just wondering if I waited a year or two if there would be a glut of unwanted uppers on the market, or if they were all going to be snapped up and kept like they currently are.
Check Slickguns for AR deals. Regular .223 rifles are just about back to pre-panic prices. 300 BLK uppers from DSA are the best deal out there..You just have to wait.

SharpsDressedMan
May 5, 2013, 08:03 PM
The .300 Blackout/Whisper throws a 220gr bullet out to 400 yards accurately, and still retains more energy at that range than a .45ACP has at the muzzle. AND, it can do that in relative silence (subsonic, no hypersonic crack) with the addition of a sound suppressor. Not too many other cartridges can do ALL of those things.

Elkins45
May 5, 2013, 08:17 PM
If you want to shoot cast boolets from an AR, the 300 Blackout is the best choice because of parts interchangeability with 223 and the ability to make brass for cheap. Well, at least it was cheap before the panic.

Cheap brass, cast boolets, relatively small charges of pistol powder, no special bolts or mags needed...what's not to like?

cfullgraf
May 5, 2013, 08:21 PM
I also think that 300 BLK is here to stay but it will not be super popular like 223 Remington modern sporting rifles.

I feel it makes a dandy home defense cartridge with supersonic ammunition.

C-grunt
May 5, 2013, 09:09 PM
I think it's here to stay because it makes a great hunting round for the AR. My uncle lives in a small town in Oklahoma and I was surprised this last deer season of the acceptance of the general hunting population towards the AR as a deer rifle.

Several of my uncles friends bought 6.8 rifles but were complaining about how everything was different. 300BLK gives near 30/30 ballistics and all you need is a new barrel.

sixgunner455
May 5, 2013, 09:59 PM
It's been around a while. Certainly has gone beyond "flash-in-the-pan" status.

Putting .30-30 ballistics (as far as hunting rounds are concerned) in an AR is interesting, but not enough to make me build an upper for it. It's not just a new barrel- it's a whole upper, if you want to actually be able to use your AR as a swap-top. If you want to just convert over to .300, that's a different story, I guess. I don't.

Suppressor use - that's more interesting, but certainly not a money-saver! lol. I'm not ready to pop for one.

Trajectory and velocity of .300 hunting loads made me look elsewhere when I considered getting a dedicated hunting upper for my AR. Yeah, I got a 6.8. It was either that or a 6.5 Grendel. Neither of them are going anywhere anytime soon, either.

arizona_cards_11
May 5, 2013, 10:07 PM
I'm not a huge AR fan, but I owned a couple of AR15's in the standard 223/5.56. I now own only one and it's in 300blk.

fireside44
May 5, 2013, 11:21 PM
It's here to stay because the 5.56/.223 in an AR is lacking. It's like a doggy version of a 7.62x39, when I am supposed to get excited? Flamesuit on, fire away.

Lj1941
May 6, 2013, 12:11 AM
Maybe I have been living in a vaccum,but what makes anyone so sure that it will even approach the 223 Remington/556x45 in popularity. The only way that could happen if the US Military & Nato should decide to abandon the 556 and convert 100% to this caliber.The chances of this happening are ZERO.Many good things have been failures. I thought the Edsel was a good car. I thought the 225 Winchester was a winner and bought one.I was just finding out what a good pistol caliber the 10 MM was when I stopped hearing or reading about it. Put another post about this subject in 10 years and see if anyone remembers it.:fire:

greyling22
May 6, 2013, 12:26 AM
and that right there is the true beauty of the 300. if it fades, you can still easily make brass. I'm drowning in 223 brass. I can't give it away. I can't say that about anything else but 9mm.

Most other oddball calibers or gun specific calibers leave you high and dry when they fade. 30 carb dried up and now I spend way more time looking for brass than I do shooting. I thought my 257AI was going to always have a source of 257 bob brass laying around, then that phenomenal cartridge faded. (as did the parent 7x57. I hear maybe you can make it from a 270 case trimmed and run through a 308 sizing die without the expander) So I figured, hey, garand, there will be 30-06 forever, and that's actually been getting scarce at the range........

I've been eyeballing the dsa uppers, but from the comments I see over on ar15.com, wait time can be close to a year, and if you call them they say "2 weeks". A few months of that can get real old real fast.

taliv
May 6, 2013, 09:23 AM
it won't approach 223 in popularity. but it will be very popular in places where you can SBR and suppress it.

I am in the process of building two 300blk now. one a bolt gun, the other an AR

68wj
May 6, 2013, 09:46 AM
OP, bet you own a 6.8 SPC. That's the one that is going to be a passing fad. Ammo is expensive, buyer at Walmart accidentally ordered some; that mistake will be corrected.

Cute. The OP asks a question and this nonsense boils up.

To topic, there is no reason the 300 BO would go away. The Whisper was already popular among select shooters but industry acceptance kept it out of the general public eye. Remington/AAC's submission to SAAMI makes it easy for both ammo or firearms manufacturers to get in the game with the common case head. It has also created new hoopla in marketable optics with schnazi dual reticles for the big arched subs and less arched supersonic loads. I think the industry loves the fresh opportunities it has created and will continue to release products.

WardenWolf
May 6, 2013, 11:00 AM
I honestly think .300 Blackout is a fad. Its primary purpose is to offer 7.62x39 performance in a package that's more suited to the AR, since the AR's stupidly over-long magwell causes problems if you need a curved mag. It's honestly cheaper in the long run to just buy a VEPR in 7.62x39, though. That gives you cheap ammo and cheap mags.

blue32
May 6, 2013, 11:36 AM
It will be as popular and underrated as the .260 Rem, which is another great but less adaptable cartridge for the AR.

Nikdfish
May 6, 2013, 12:51 PM
It really shines as an AR SBR or pistol. The efficient powder use helps keep velocities up in the usable territory without the flash & pressure wave associated with 5.56 rounds from the same length. That plus the easily formed brass will keep it around a long time, even if suppressors are not factored in to the equation.

I've had a 5.56/.223 AR for a few years, the 300BLK for much less time. I find myself loading for & shooting the 300BLK in both carbine & pistol form much more than I ever did the 5.56/.223. It is a fun round to shoot.

Nick

Warp
May 6, 2013, 01:19 PM
It's honestly cheaper in the long run to just buy a VEPR in 7.62x39, though. That gives you cheap ammo and cheap mags.

Which means different (inferior) ergonomics, controls, and aftermarket support/accessories/options (or lack thereof).

WardenWolf
May 6, 2013, 01:27 PM
Actually, in terms of accessories they're about equal. You can have AR-style handguards, stocks, and more nowadays, giving you largely the same ergonomics if you so desire. The controls are different, but not really inferior. And, like everything else, are customizable.

wally
May 6, 2013, 02:47 PM
Does the .45 ACP fit into a pistol the size of which will fit .45 GAP? (grip size mostly)

Yes, unless the gun is made by Glock. I knew the .45GAP was essentially dead as soon as I handled the Springfield XD .45GAP vs. .45ACP. In reality the .45GAP is a rip-off of the European .45HP which was made to work around bans on civilians owning military calibers over there.


The others I've no idea what you are talking about. I've never disagreed that the .300Blk fills a niche, especially for suppressed SBRs. Being a fan of suppressed SBRs I suspect I'll build one someday if the reloading component situation ever returns to "normal".


If RRA's AR that takes AK mags becomes widely available it effectively will kill .300BLK for non-reloaders as it solves the "ergonomics, controls, and aftermarket support/accessories/options" problem of 7.62x39. IMHO there would be little interest or need for .300 BLK if someone could make truely reliable 7.62x39 AR mags.

Warp
May 6, 2013, 04:55 PM
Actually, in terms of accessories they're about equal. You can have AR-style handguards, stocks, and more nowadays, giving you largely the same ergonomics if you so desire. The controls are different, but not really inferior. And, like everything else, are customizable.

I don't really think so.

As for controls...what do you need to do in order to make a VEPR ambidextrous, for example?

WardenWolf
May 6, 2013, 06:25 PM
What do you have to do? Nothing. They work just fine for lefties as it is, in some ways better than right-handed. I'm a lefty myself and have never had a problem. I've seen some "adaptations" such as the Lightning Bolt which put a charging handle on the opposite side, but I've never felt a need for one. The safety works very well; just use your right thumb to operate it. AK actions also typically eject forwards at a 45-degree angle, so ejection is not a problem. To charge it, just use your right hand and ram the bolt rearwards, or reach over with your left.

taliv
May 6, 2013, 06:49 PM
let's not derail this thread by getting into a ridiculous discussion about ARs versus whatever.

444
May 6, 2013, 08:40 PM
I am almost certainly going to buy one or more.

I have been meaning to get into the .300 Whisper for years. I even bought a few hundred brass for it. I also bought a Remington 788 in .223 with the intention of rebarreling it for .300 Whisper.

However, now that .300 BLK has come on the scene, things look even easier. I have a number of AR uppers lying around that I haven't touched for years. And, rebarreling an AR is something I can do myself. At that point, I might as well also get the 788 rebarreled for the same cartridge. FWIW: I reload, I have several registered AR SBRs as well as a .308 can.

As to whether it is a passing fad, I don't know or really have any idea. And, once I get this whole process in operation, I really don't care.

I haven't really done any reading about this cartridge and only know the most basic information, but based on what little I do know about it; I sounds like it is sort of a no-brainer for me. I don't have any actual use for it, other than as something else to play with.

greyling22
May 7, 2013, 04:48 PM
I guess another way of asking this is Or measuring popularity is "has anybody sold theirs blackout upper or know anyone who has" with the understanding that we had a massive panic buy in the middle the the 300's launch year.

meanmrmustard
May 7, 2013, 07:38 PM
Does the .45 ACP fit into a pistol the size of which will fit .45 GAP? (grip size mostly)

What 50+ year old cartridge can be fired in a rifle that was a standard AR15 chambered in 5.56 with nothing more than a barrel swap, same everything else?

What cartridge out of an AR will do what .300 does suppressed with a short barrel?

What semi auto cartridge fits into a .45 ACP size pistol and provides full-house .357 magnum power levels?
I don't have an answer for questions #1,2, and 4. But for 3...

7.62x39. 300 Whisper (at cqb ranges).

Well Now
May 7, 2013, 08:01 PM
The downside right now for the 300 Blk, is the lack of ammo. It's out there you just have to hunt real hard to find it. Even the reloaders are having a hard time getting powder and primers

I started buying when they first came out and I bought ammo when available so I'm set for a while. I am also stocking up on reloading components and plan to start reloading within the end of the year, and I still buy available ammo when I find it. Takes quite a bit to feed four of them.

444
May 7, 2013, 08:16 PM
I don't believe the 7.62x39 can shoot as heavy a bullet as the .300 BLK and that round also doesn't use a standard 5.56 magazine.

If I am handloading subsonic rounds, I want to use the heaviest bullet possible. As has been mentioned before, the beauty of the .300 BLK is that you can put one together from a standard 5.56 AR15 by simply changing the barrel: which appeals to me greatly.


FWIW: I realize this probably doesn't mean much, but it is an interesting comparison: at least to me.
US Military .45 ACP Ball Ammo uses a 230 grain FMJ bullet at somewhere around 850 fps.
The .300 Blackout uses a 220 grain jacketed bullet at just below the speed of sound (around 1080 fps).
Neither bullet will probably give you any expansion, but the .300 is using a more streamlined rifle bullet that will give you longer range accuracy. The only real point being that even at subsonic velocity, the .300 isn't a pea shooter.

allaroundhunter
May 7, 2013, 08:21 PM
If anyone is in the Houston area and needs some .300 BLK ammo, Freedom Munitions typically has some in stock. Their website is not representative of what they have in their retail store. Give them a call and/or swing by and you can probably grab some.

Warp
May 7, 2013, 08:28 PM
I don't have an answer for questions #1,2, and 4. But for 3...

7.62x39. 300 Whisper (at cqb ranges).

Can you shoot 7.62x39 out of an AR with nothing special but a new barrel? Same upper receiver, same bolt carrier group, and same magazines?

allaroundhunter
May 7, 2013, 08:30 PM
Can you shoot 7.62x39 out of an AR with nothing special but a new barrel? Same upper receiver, same bolt carrier group, and same magazines?

Nope, have to change bolts and use different magazines.

meanmrmustard
May 7, 2013, 08:52 PM
Can you shoot 7.62x39 out of an AR with nothing special but a new barrel? Same upper receiver, same bolt carrier group, and same magazines?
You said "can do what the BLK does with short barrel/suppressed".

No specifics were given.

To answer your subsequent question, no. You'd need bolt, barrel, mag. Or cheat; swap uppers. That's what I'd do anyway. Pain in the ass to change a barrel, check headspace, and line up gas tubes in the field/at range anyway.

But, as stated, the two examples I gave will do what you originally asked.

Warp
May 7, 2013, 09:29 PM
You said "can do what the BLK does with short barrel/suppressed".

No specifics were given.

To answer your subsequent question, no. You'd need bolt, barrel, mag. Or cheat; swap uppers. That's what I'd do anyway. Pain in the ass to change a barrel, check headspace, and line up gas tubes in the field/at range anyway.

But, as stated, the two examples I gave will do what you originally asked.

I left out some of the other specifics. But then they had been mentioned several times throughout this thread, so I figured I didn't need to be that specific.

The above is one way in which x39 doesn't do quite what .300 does. Magazines and parts/spare parts are MUCH easier to come by when using the standard 5.56 variety.

Kachok
May 7, 2013, 09:33 PM
The 300 is a little bland, it won't come close to the 6.5 Grendel at range nor will it hit like the 458 up close. You could try to make a case for it being a balanced cartridge but I think the 6.5 is better any way you look at it of, course real world ballistics don't always determine the winner of the popularity contest.

meanmrmustard
May 7, 2013, 10:09 PM
I left out some of the other specifics. But then they had been mentioned several times throughout this thread, so I figured I didn't need to be that specific.

The above is one way in which x39 doesn't do quite what .300 does. Magazines and parts/spare parts are MUCH easier to come by when using the standard 5.56 variety.
Given, but I don't tend to addlib information into a question. That'd be rude.

I see the magazine/bolt side of it all, but the barrel swap isn't really a winner in my book. Not when it's easier to swap uppers. Also, if you change barrels, you possibly have optics and iron sights calibrated to their original equipment. Going from 556 to 300 BLK presents a hurdle when you either can't change optics in a given situation, or you have none calibrated to the 300 on hand. Literally pissing away ammo till you begin connecting. Not a big deal at the range, but kind of dangerous in a combat scenario. Especially if one hasn't noted the change in POI with a shared sighting system.

If we are speaking to the performance aspect of your question, barrels, mags, and bolts become a nonissue. By inquiring as to what other cartridges do what BLK does, I gave two examples. Both can be used subsonic, with like-weighted bullets in x39, and even heavier ones in the Whisper.

greghvac
May 7, 2013, 10:09 PM
waiting for my stamp,10.5 223, and will get 300 blackout

meanmrmustard
May 7, 2013, 10:10 PM
The 300 is a little bland, it won't come close to the 6.5 Grendel at range nor will it hit like the 458 up close. You could try to make a case for it being a balanced cartridge but I think the 6.5 is better any way you look at it of, course real world ballistics don't always determine the winner of the popularity contest.
+1.

Hard to beat 6.5.

ssyoumans
May 7, 2013, 10:28 PM
The 300 Blackout is a one trick pony. Thought that would stir a few people. It shines for suppressed shooting.
I own all 3, 5.56, 300 Blackout and 6.8 SPC. The 6.8 is a much better deer hunting rifle, with 1,800 ft-lbs out of a 16" barrel, the 300 and 5.56 are no match. Superb accuracy out of my 6.8, but not any better than 5.56.

5.56: best for plinking (cheap ammo), and mid range varmint hunting, great for target shooting
300 Blackout: fantastic with stubs and a can. Ideal SBR.
6.8: most punch for hunting deer size game out to 300 yards

Perhaps one day I'll even hook up with a 6.5 Grendel/LBC. It is the long range shooter of the bunch.

For those that gripe about the cost of a 6.8, if you are going to have a $900+ rifle, don't complain about having to buy a $60 bolt or a few $15 mags. I would not discount 6.8 SPC over <$100. It has ~50% more power than 5.56 and ~30% more than 300 Blackout.
I've found a need for all 3.

justice06rr
May 7, 2013, 11:44 PM
It will stick around. it won't become mainstream, but it will be a great option to AR fanatics who want something specific that the 5.56 doesn't offer.

Not only is it great for SBR and suppressed form, but also works well both subsonic/supersonic. Its biggest advantage is modularity in the AR platform and the use of 223 case to form the 300BLK cartridge. So Yes, it is here to stay.

I had a 300BLK AR before the craziness, sold it unfortunately because I didn't shoot it enough. If you are looking to get back into it, I suggest just building an upper instead of buying an entire rifle.

C-grunt
May 8, 2013, 03:01 AM
If we are speaking to the performance aspect of your question, barrels, mags, and bolts become a nonissue. By inquiring as to what other cartridges do what BLK does, I gave two examples. Both can be used subsonic, with like-weighted bullets in x39, and even heavier ones in the Whisper.

Since the 300BLk is basically a SAMI spec'd Whisper how does the Whisper shoot heavier bullets? You can buy factory loaded 220 grn in the 300 and Ive seen people shoot 240 grn as well.

meanmrmustard
May 8, 2013, 08:09 AM
Since the 300BLk is basically a SAMI spec'd Whisper how does the Whisper shoot heavier bullets? You can buy factory loaded 220 grn in the 300 and Ive seen people shoot 240 grn as well.
I looked at that last night, hadn't seen them go that high. Then I'd remembered that Haley shot a vid using 220s at distance suppressed.

But, what does that matter? There are still cartridges that do what the BLK does. One of which quite a bit cheaper.

So, summarily, while I've only recognized the BLK as somewhat obscure, it still somewhat continues to be a one trick pony, and not one that many recognize a need for.

So, I say "passing trend, with a cult following", if that's a choice.

ssyoumans
May 8, 2013, 09:58 AM
Most people won't pay the $200 for the SBR stamp or $800-$1200 for a suppressor with tax stamp. Then people will wonder why they are shooting $22+ ammo when 5.56 is less than 1/2 the price.
Haven't seen a box of 300 Blackout for months now either.

Warp
May 8, 2013, 10:15 AM
Given, but I don't tend to addlib information into a question. That'd be rude.

I see the magazine/bolt side of it all, but the barrel swap isn't really a winner in my book. Not when it's easier to swap uppers. Also, if you change barrels, you possibly have optics and iron sights calibrated to their original equipment. Going from 556 to 300 BLK presents a hurdle when you either can't change optics in a given situation, or you have none calibrated to the 300 on hand. Literally pissing away ammo till you begin connecting. Not a big deal at the range, but kind of dangerous in a combat scenario. Especially if one hasn't noted the change in POI with a shared sighting system.

If we are speaking to the performance aspect of your question, barrels, mags, and bolts become a nonissue. By inquiring as to what other cartridges do what BLK does, I gave two examples. Both can be used subsonic, with like-weighted bullets in x39, and even heavier ones in the Whisper.

Good post.

Walkalong
May 8, 2013, 10:25 AM
The original question was is the .300 BLK a passing fad or will it stick around.

dubbleA
May 8, 2013, 12:21 PM
Dont have a crystal ball nor can I see into the future. There is no way to tell whether or not the 300 BO will be a fad and fade away. It really doesnt matter to me if it makes it or not, it really doesnt matter what others think about it. The cartridge appeals to some and to others is doesnt just like any other cartridge out there. It does seem that this one brings on alot of debate.


Whats the big deal?
If the 300 Black Out fills your needs, wants or what ever by all means get you one. If it doesnt just walk on by. :banghead:

C-grunt
May 8, 2013, 01:51 PM
It won't come anywhere near the popularity of the 223/5.56 but I see it being a solid second place. I see it shining as a hunting rifle.

Elkins45
May 8, 2013, 09:37 PM
Haven't seen a box of 300 Blackout for months now either.

I've never seen a box of it, but I have 1000 rounds in the basement.

Factory ammo is for rich people or guys who don't shoot much. I don't fall into either category, and I don't think the 300 depends on factory ammo for its survival.

meanmrmustard
May 8, 2013, 10:13 PM
I've never seen a box of it, but I have 1000 rounds in the basement.

Factory ammo is for rich people or guys who don't shoot much. I don't fall into either category, and I don't think the 300 depends on factory ammo for its survival.
I don't agree with this.

I'm of the third group who doesn't mind buying factory loads: the lazy.

I work. I can afford ammo.

Warp
May 8, 2013, 10:16 PM
I don't agree with this.


Same.

Reloading all of your ammo is a commitment, especially if you shoot a lot.

For a lot of guys reloading IS a hobby unto itself. Some even joke about shooting in order to support their hobby.

For others reloading becomes a chore and can detract from the shooting because you know you have to spend all that time, effort, and energy (re)loading the ammo.

Walkalong
May 8, 2013, 10:56 PM
I work, and I could buy factory ammo, but I am also cheap/frugal, so I am glad I enjoy reloading. I just made over 1K .300 BLK cases from free .223 cases.

That is one of the draws of the .300 BLK, cheap ammo if you reload. Cheap guns and/or cheap ammo has always made certain weapons and calibers popular.

Remember when AKs were cheap and Chinese ammo, including steel core, was dirt cheap. Everybody was shooting them.

The .300 BLK won't replace anything, and will always be way behind 5.56/.223 in popularity, but it will remain popular and is here to stay.

savanahsdad
May 9, 2013, 04:10 AM
first this should have been a pole, I've lost count of the yea's and nay's , but I say fad. , but so what get one and have fun with it , plus I like odd rounds , 20 years down the road those are the cool guns , not the same old same old,

sixgunner455
May 9, 2013, 04:28 AM
originally posted by Warp:
Reloading all of your ammo is a commitment, especially if you shoot a lot.

For a lot of guys reloading IS a hobby unto itself. Some even joke about shooting in order to support their hobby.

For others reloading becomes a chore and can detract from the shooting because you know you have to spend all that time, effort, and energy (re)loading the ammo.

I grew up in a house that believed in holy black powder. My first rifle, and only for years, was a muzzleloader. Loading every round for that rifle was and is an integral part of the experience of shooting it.

Shooting cartridge-fed guns is supposed to be easier and less of a hassle than shooting the holy black. Loading cartridges ahead of time is easier, and faster, but just buying a box of factory loads is certainly the easiest. Almost seems lazy. :D

The expense and dependency of it, though ... I can't stand it. I much prefer being able, at least, to load my own, no matter what cartridge, and I'm sure if I got a .300, I'd be cutting down brass and making custom loads.

Warp
May 9, 2013, 01:48 PM
I grew up in a house that believed in holy black powder. My first rifle, and only for years, was a muzzleloader. Loading every round for that rifle was and is an integral part of the experience of shooting it.

Shooting cartridge-fed guns is supposed to be easier and less of a hassle than shooting the holy black. Loading cartridges ahead of time is easier, and faster, but just buying a box of factory loads is certainly the easiest. Almost seems lazy. :D

The expense and dependency of it, though ... I can't stand it. I much prefer being able, at least, to load my own, no matter what cartridge, and I'm sure if I got a .300, I'd be cutting down brass and making custom loads.

If dependency is your thing, make you you stock a LOT of primers and powder. And bullets for those that you cannot readily make yourself.

I'm sure you already do this, though. ;)

sixgunner455
May 9, 2013, 03:02 PM
I'm sure you already do this, though.

Indeed. I don't have nearly enough yet, but who does? :D

silicosys4
May 9, 2013, 03:52 PM
I'm a very critical person, definitely a late adopter. I have to say that this is not a fad. Not when you can trim very easy to obtain brass, slide in a very easy to obtain bigger bullet, and get hunting energy out of a rifle you can use the same bolt/magazine as original.
I have enough .223 brass and 147 gr. .308 bullets to seriously consider getting one, and it sounds extremely easy to load for...just a set of dies

Walkalong
May 9, 2013, 04:16 PM
I still shoot my .222 Mag. I haven't seen factory ammo for it in decades, but that doesn't limit my enjoyment of the caliber and the gun. If .300 BLK goes the way of the .222 Mag (The .223 killed it), then I will be perfectly happy reloading for and shooting it as well.

But I think it is here for a long time. Forever? Who knows. :)

ssyoumans
May 9, 2013, 04:32 PM
Slightly off topic, but I wonder what % of 300 Blackout shooters reload vs. % that shoot factory ammo.
Will it become predominantly a reloaders caliber? Its got to be right now!

ny32182
May 9, 2013, 05:18 PM
Given the versatility of the loadings, the parts commonality with .223 stuff, and the component commonality with .223 and .308, I don't think it is going anywhere and will only gain in popularity from here. I would guess it is already easily the 2nd most popular AR15 cartridge.

I've been trying to get an AAC 9" upper for months; hopefully (finally) have one coming soon.

silicosys4
May 9, 2013, 05:39 PM
Slightly off topic, but I wonder what % of 300 Blackout shooters reload vs. % that shoot factory ammo.
Will it become predominantly a reloaders caliber? Its got to be right now!

For me as a reloader who is already tooled and stocked up for .308, it makes more sense than any other "big bore" cartridges. Biggest reason? component availability trumps the more impressive ballistic performance of other BB AR's imo... The last 5 months have taught me that. If I had a .300 blackout, It wouldn't matter to me if they never make another commercially produced .300 blackout round again, I'm cool with that....in fact, great, component demand will be less with one more commercially produced .30 cartridge taking components off the shelves. That wouldn't hurt me in the least as a reloader, since those components are (usually) readily available regardless.

The way I see it, its the only realistic "big bore" AR cartridge for me. All others are too proprietary, takes specialty brass, different bolts that if broken aren't easily replaced, different magazines....
I already load for .308 and for 5.56, so the only cost to me to start loading .300 blackout would be the cost of dies, and to pick a .300 barrel in my current AR build.
After looking at other options and what a PITA they would be to load for, expensive...hard to find brass...etc...
I know and I'm glad we don't do SHTF here, but out of the available choices, .300 bl. is the only one that wouldn't automatically become a paperweight as soon as commercial brass/bullet supplies become nonexistent, and its the cheapest and easiest to stock up components for, I'd bet. Name me another big bore AR that can be loaded for with 100% components found in standard issue U.S. infantry gear such as you would be able to salvage from a battlefield. (not arguing the likelihood or desirability of such a scenario, just the possibility)
.300 blackout is the only option I'd consider for a big bore AR, much as I love the idea of a .458 socom with 300-600 grain loads, the range of a 6.8 spc, or a .450 bushmaster that takes the same bullets as my .45acp.

I am always going to have a 5.56 AR for obvious reasons, but the .300 blackout is definitely getting my attention.

hentown
May 9, 2013, 08:37 PM
Don't know about the longevity of .300 Blackout, but I do own a .300 Blackout upper and have a can on the way. It's just a novelty to me. To even mention in this thread that "it won't be as popular as 5.56/.223" is SUCH a non sequitur! ;)

I don't have a lot invested in my .300. Bought a barrel for $141 shipped. Already had the upper.

Somebody's buying a bunch of the ammo. Friend of mine is selling 20k rounds per week to Brownell's, and they're always out of stock! :cool:

justice06rr
May 10, 2013, 01:17 AM
As a potential reloader, the 300BLK is a very attractive round.

I shoot mostly 9mm and 5.56 (and the occasional 22lr and 7.62x54R). But as I have started looking to buy reloading equipment, the 300BLK is becoming more and more attractive.

Again, biggest advantage of the round is commonality with widely available 223 brass and AR15 parts. I cannot say the same for 6.8 or 6.5G and others, which is why I'll be building another AR in 300BLK.

It obviously has its limitations, like every cartridge does. But if you use it for its intended purposes, it shines.

So it is here to stay; not as a mainstream round just like 6.8SPC . And when the ammo cruch eases up, we will see more availability of 300BLK ammo too.

sixgunner455
May 10, 2013, 01:22 AM
For me as a reloader who is already tooled and stocked up for .308, it makes more sense than any other "big bore" cartridges. Biggest reason? component availability trumps the more impressive ballistic performance of other BB AR's imo... The last 5 months have taught me that. If I had a .300 blackout, It wouldn't matter to me if they never make another commercially produced .300 blackout round again, I'm cool with that....in fact, great, component demand will be less with one more commercially produced .30 cartridge taking components off the shelves. That wouldn't hurt me in the least as a reloader, since those components are (usually) readily available regardless.

The way I see it, its the only realistic "big bore" AR cartridge for me. All others are too proprietary, takes specialty brass, different bolts that if broken aren't easily replaced, different magazines....
I already load for .308 and for 5.56, so the only cost to me to start loading .300 blackout would be the cost of dies, and to pick a .300 barrel in my current AR build.
After looking at other options and what a PITA they would be to load for, expensive...hard to find brass...etc...
I know and I'm glad we don't do SHTF here, but out of the available choices, .300 bl. is the only one that wouldn't automatically become a paperweight as soon as commercial brass/bullet supplies become nonexistent, and its the cheapest and easiest to stock up components for, I'd bet. Name me another big bore AR that can be loaded for with 100% components found in standard issue U.S. infantry gear such as you would be able to salvage from a battlefield. (not arguing the likelihood or desirability of such a scenario, just the possibility)
.300 blackout is the only option I'd consider for a big bore AR, much as I love the idea of a .458 socom with 300-600 grain loads, the range of a 6.8 spc, or a .450 bushmaster that takes the same bullets as my .45acp.

I am always going to have a 5.56 AR for obvious reasons, but the .300 blackout is definitely getting my attention.

That makes a lot of sense.

Manny
May 10, 2013, 05:03 AM
The subsonic aspect, while interesting and usefull isn't what attracts me. I like the supersonic aspect where it's the functional equivelant of the 7.62x39. I've always admired the performance of the x39, but detest the ergonomics of the rifles it's chambered in. The 300 BLK gives that performance in a platform I really like and all the parts would be common to my 5.56 AR other than the barrel. Old 5.56 brass could see new life as new 300 ammo, a win/win.

To answer the OP's question, I believe it will stay popular as long as AR's are available. No where near as popular as .223/5.56, but popular none the less.

EdLaver
May 10, 2013, 12:44 PM
I think its here to stay, I have made the 300 blk cartridge my main all around carbine rifle. The only .223 I have left is a DPMS Bull 20.

For me, 300blk shines in the 110gr-125gr loads. I've dropped hogs with it pretty easily and 75-100 yards. Its a great round for 300 yards in which is perfect for me, easy to shoot, more power, nearly same recoil. As far as ammo for it, I stocked up along time ago when it 1st came out ;) I knew it was the choice caliber for me. I've been thinking about trying to load some 95gr .30 cal bullets to see what velocities I can get as well.

DCP
May 12, 2013, 09:42 AM
I believe its here to stay. All firearms are tools.
300 blk is like a full tool box of tools.

It cant do everything but it does a whole lot.

Krogen
May 12, 2013, 11:16 AM
I just received a 300 BLK upper about a week ago. Very accurate with my first handloads. It wasn't difficult to form cases from 221 Fireball. And, it's a whole lot of fun. If my experience is any hint of others' then I expect the 300 BLK will be around for quite a long time.

jmorris
May 12, 2013, 11:28 AM
The 300-221, 300 whisper and 300 fireball have been around for decades and are, for all practicle purposes, the exact same cartrage. The usefull applications of the round haven't changed but there has been much more time and money marketing the round, this time around.

Krogen
May 12, 2013, 11:48 AM
Correct, these have been around in wildcat form for eons. When SAMMI got into the act and "legitimized" them as the 300 AAC Blackout, the round became mainstream. Loading data is generally the same, with some talk of slightly different chamber dimensions. Hornady states that their 300 Whisper ammo can be fired in 300 BLK guns. IMNHO, SAMMI involvement will help this round have a life in the future.

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