Campaign against CTD.


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Kiln
May 6, 2013, 09:47 PM
In recent months I've noticed some pretty obvious price gouging going on by this company ($23 for a box of 50 rds .22lr!).

There are several things we can do to let them know we aren't happy about their obvious profiteering and greed directed toward the very people that have made Cheaper Than Dirt so successful.

1. Unsubscribe from their emails. It is something small that you can do that makes a statement that you don't want to hear about their "deals" anymore.

2. Stop buying any products from them. There are other companies out there with fair prices that don't try (to the same extent at least) to take advantage of ammo droughts and panic fueled buying.

3. Write or call their customer service department and voice your displeasure with their company. Be polite but make sure they understand that they've lost you as a customer and make sure they understand the reason.

4. Make sure other gun owners get what is going on with shops and companies like this. The more people you can get on our side, the better. Use social networking to spread the word that CTD has bitten the hand that feeds them and that we're tired of it.

5. Stick to your guns. Don't buy from them even when prices come down because next time there is a panic going they'll throw us under the bus again.

I'm just annoyed at all of the companies who have taken advantage of the panic to buy ammo or weapons and more than triple the sale price. It is ridiculous and it is an underhanded business model.

I just wanted to voice my displeasure and see how many agree with me here.

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WardenWolf
May 6, 2013, 10:13 PM
What made me swear off EVER doing business with them again: even after the new gun control bills failed, they sent an email out an email on 4/19/2013 with this subject:

Buy Your AR-15 Before Lawmakers Outlaw Them!

They are trying to feed and prolong the panic. So not only are they profiting off it by gouging, they are actively trying to prolong it with misinformation and spreading FUD.

rm23
May 6, 2013, 10:20 PM
I'll never buy from them again because they stopped firearm sales after the school shooting to "review policies" which they days later lied about and claimed it was because of a huge backlog

yzguy87
May 6, 2013, 10:20 PM
I agree. Boycott those who fuel panic. I have no problem with companies trying make a profit but gouging is ridiculous and shouldn't be tollerated or even supported at all!

Kiln
May 6, 2013, 10:22 PM
The most important thing is that we let them know we're not happy and that you help spread the word that everyone elso who isn't happy should do the same.

mljdeckard
May 6, 2013, 11:07 PM
They never left my poop list after the last panic.

CTD is old news. I think that suggestion #2 is the bulk of the job, and will have the most effect. I save my letter-writing for congress-critters.

TAKtical
May 6, 2013, 11:09 PM
If they go back to being the cheapest online supplier, I'll buy from them again. But they havent gotten a penny of my money in a long time. No company is looking out for us. Every online shop is gouging. There are a few local places that have not participated in the craziness and I will continue to support them.

mljdeckard
May 6, 2013, 11:19 PM
I haven't done a lot of shopping, but I haven't seen any gouging from Natchez or Midway.

X-Rap
May 6, 2013, 11:26 PM
I've never spent a dollar at CTD so I feel no guilt one way or the other.

Kiln
May 6, 2013, 11:31 PM
Everyone has marked their ammo up some because that is what businesses do to make money. Not to mention distributers have likely raised their prices slightly because of the demand.

Buying ammo at near normal prices and then selling for 4x the value is much different.

rdhood
May 7, 2013, 12:17 AM
They never left my poop list after the last panic.


Ditto. They did the same thing in 2008-9. I crossed them off my list then.

Kiln
May 22, 2013, 07:28 AM
Here's the message I sent their customer service department:

I've bought several products from your company and have enjoyed them immensely. I once thought this was an awesome company who actually cared about the shooting community and wanted to protect our right to bear arms. I was glad to give my hard earned money to Cheaper Than Dirt in order to support them and their once fair prices.

I just wanted to complain about the ridiculous prices that CTD has been charging during the recent panic. It has alienated a large number of customers, including myself. While your company could have gained lots of new long term customers, you've traded long term profits for short term profits driven by panic buying.

Your company's profiteering during a second amendment "crisis" has caused me to unsubscribe from your sales Emails despite prior interest in your products.

I also have noticed a large number of other gun owners complaining online about the drastic price increases on many CTD products.

I'd just like to see CTD return to what it once was, which is a good company that sells products for fair prices rather than simply thinking of the profit margins.

I hope that CTD can understand the frustration that other gun owners and myself are experiencing right now and stop what they're doing because what they're doing is driving away the people who have been behind them and made them the successful company that they are today.

ole farmerbuck
May 22, 2013, 07:49 AM
I haven't done a lot of shopping, but I haven't seen any gouging from Natchez or Midway.
Natchez shipping is nothing to brag about now.

shaggy430
May 22, 2013, 08:48 AM
^ Natchez is just down the road from me but does not sell to anyone in TN. I find that ridiculous. I called them one time and offered to come pick up an item they were advertising and still pay shipping. They said no. They are 10 minutes from my house!

jmorris
May 22, 2013, 09:58 AM
I drive by a CTD everyday. I go inside if I am bored and want a free laugh.

basicblur
May 22, 2013, 10:53 AM
Knowing their reputation, I took a chance and ordered a couple of magazines for my Colt 22AR - this was my first, and last, time ordering from them.

1. Needed a 10-rd magazine for bench work.
2. Showed in stock, but could not add two to my cart.
3. Called and was told they only had one left, and was ASSURED they had one!
4. Not wanting to pay shipping just on one item, tossed in a 25-rd magazine.
5. After completing order, got an e-mail - OOPS! We don't have 10-rd magazines!
6. Called to see what order status was - was told they had already shipped the 30-rd. magazine. Told gal that what I was after was the 10-rd. magazine, and I was NOT going to pay shipping on one item! Was told "too late", it's already been shipped and we can't change / cancel the order. I told her I'm refusing delivery when it arrives - she told me if I did so, they would refund the magazine price AND shipping.
7. According to their site, the magazine was still "in the system / unshipped" for another day and a half (before showing shipped).
8. Item arrived, I handed it back to the mailman and he marked "delivery refused" on the package.
9. Probably not enough time has yet passed, but I have not yet received a credit.
10. Called and was told they have not received the package, and gal told me I probably would NOT receive shipping reimbursement, but when she checked computer notes, she said the previous operator made a note that I was to receive a full refund (including shipping).

We'll see if / when I get a refund and IF it includes shipping costs.

This is the first (and last) time I will order from CTD, based on what I consider multiple questionable sales tactics / incompetence.

Kiln
May 22, 2013, 04:54 PM
Couple of guys on another forum caught a good deal on .25acp ammo at $9 a box on CTD. They all ordered some and then the listing went down and half of them got charged $14 a box. CTD wouldn't honor their listed price and then relisted the same item.

HankR
May 22, 2013, 05:12 PM
Every online shop is gouging.

Midway doesn't seem to be. I also just got an email from AIM surplus. They have 30 round PMags in stock for $12.95. I haven't bought any lately (2012), so don't know what the pre-panic price should be, but that doesn't sound ridiculous to me.

I haven't bought anything from CTD in so long I think I've even stopped getting their catalogs/emails. They haven't been decent for years.

lpsharp88
May 22, 2013, 05:45 PM
Currently charging $60 for a box of 50 PMC Bronze 115gr 9mm FMJ, I don't think so!
http://www.cheaperthandirt.com/product/AMM-426

basicblur
May 22, 2013, 08:25 PM
Midway doesn't seem to be.
I can't fault Midway USA!
I've been trying to order both 10-rd and 25-rd magazines for my new 15-22.
Midway has a 2-magazine limit, but were out - I have since gotten a couple of 10-rd from them, and just yesterday my order is supposed to be filled for a couple of 25-rounders. Prices were below MSRP, and shipping reasonable.

You really have to play with your cart as Midway's shipping can be a bit screwy.
I was going to order two of their rifle cases - shipping for one was $15 (adding a few other items in didn't change the shipping), but if you added a second bag, shipping went from $15 to $45+!

As a result, I just ordered one bag - may go back and get the other later - would be $15 cheaper to order twice rather than putting both bags on one order! :confused:

hso
May 22, 2013, 08:46 PM
No company is looking out for us. Every online shop is gouging.

You are completely wrong.

Several companies have donated considerable sums of money to RKBA groups and without gouging customers.

For a moment lets look at what CTD has actually done. They increased prices to some of the highest in the industry when demand was at full banic flood. This caused more reasonable people to not purchase from them, but they had plenty of unreasonable people spend their money with them instead. CTD made a lot of money off of those folks and then donated $100,000 to SAF. They continue to have higher prices than their competition, but then anyone but a noob knows where the other dealers are and can spend their money there. By having such crazy high prices they have been able to secure product when other dealers couldn't for those same banic buyers to overspend.

Let's compare them to Midway. Midway kept their normal percent markup, but quickly ran out of a lot of the banic buyer's target products and struggled to get replacements. This is the story with Ruger and Natchez and ... What sets Midway further apart from CTD is that they donated a MILLION dollars over and above their over NINE MILLION dollars in their Round Up for the NRA/ILA endowment.

CTD fed on the banic buyers and donated a hundred grand to the cause. Midway kept their prices as normal as possible and donated 10 times that much.

jef2015
May 22, 2013, 09:09 PM
Many of these threads will have several entries stating this is not gouging, it's capitalism at it's finest. Charge what the market will bear until supply equals demand.

I agree, if you don't plan on being in business next year.

I believe Graf and Sons, Midsouth and Midway have behaved admirably and look forward to showing my customer loyalty....

Shadow 7D
May 22, 2013, 09:11 PM
Ha, last time, they had .380 up for almost $90 for 50
CTD, home of 'We gots out, and you gonna pay sucka....'

vamo
May 22, 2013, 09:29 PM
I've never done business with them its always seemed to me that after they tack on shipping the item I like is always cheaper somewhere else. Even pre panick I've always felt I could get something cheaper at from Bud's or in person at basspro or walmart.

Bottom line: somebody at that company has seriously overvalued dirt.

oneounceload
May 22, 2013, 10:56 PM
Without going through the constant need to refute this aspect of non-existent "gouging" yet again.........the solution is simple - don't buy from them. Just because YOU find their prices absurd, does not necessarily mean others do - they are still in business, they priced their current inventory at current market pricing - something that EVERY retailer does, including your local gas station, and your local supermarket (try watching produce prices when something comes into season)

kwguy
May 22, 2013, 11:37 PM
Charge what the market will bear until supply equals demand.

I agree, if you don't plan on being in business next year.

I believe Graf and Sons, Midsouth and Midway have behaved admirably and look forward to showing my customer loyalty....

That's right. If companies run themselves out of business, then so be it. Graf, Midway, Midsouth, and... Wideners, have been very even keeled through all this. CTD clearly has another way of looking at how it does business. If it doesn't work out for them, then that's just the way it is. But no one is forcing anyone to buy from them. They'll have to answer for their own success or failure.

...the solution is simple - don't buy from them. Just because YOU find their prices absurd, does not necessarily mean others do - they are still in business, they priced their current inventory at current market pricing - something that EVERY retailer does, including your local gas station, and your local supermarket (try watching produce prices when something comes into season)

Yup, exactly.

justice06rr
May 23, 2013, 12:21 AM
I already boycott them with my wallet. I hope their business goes bankrupt...

Kiln
May 23, 2013, 02:15 AM
Without going through the constant need to refute this aspect of non-existent "gouging" yet again.........the solution is simple - don't buy from them. Just because YOU find their prices absurd, does not necessarily mean others do - they are still in business, they priced their current inventory at current market pricing - something that EVERY retailer does, including your local gas station, and your local supermarket (try watching produce prices when something comes into season)
Just because you CAN sell something for ridiculous sums of money doesn't mean that you should. There's something called business ethics that some companies adhere to.

It is their right to do this of course but as a customer, I also have the right to remember how much they're trying to screw people and profit off of the panic while letting the same people who have made them very successful sit with empty guns because of it.

No I don't think that my missed sales will bankrupt their company. At least if enough people were to boycott them and explain why, they would probably get the point.

basicblur
May 23, 2013, 02:27 AM
As I (and at least one other poster) reported, inflated prices are the least of CTD's problems.

I have no problem with their inflated prices - I just walk away.

I DO have a problem with bait and switch, incompetence, and attempting to force a sale on you or shipping without first asking what you want to do in the event there's a problem with your order.

alsaqr
May 23, 2013, 09:02 AM
I DO have a problem with bait and switch, incompetence, and attempting to force a sale on you or shipping without first asking what you want to do in the event there's a problem with your order.


Bingo!!!

i cut them off years ago and will never go back.

crestoncowboy
May 23, 2013, 11:05 AM
They have certainly shown that money is more important than the 2a our their customers this time. I have bought from them many times in the past but I too think i'm done with them." And that's the way it is"

oneounceload
May 23, 2013, 12:25 PM
Just because you CAN sell something for ridiculous sums of money doesn't mean that you should. There's something called business ethics that some companies adhere to.

It is their right to do this of course but as a customer, I also have the right to remember how much they're trying to screw people and profit off of the panic while letting the same people who have made them very successful sit with empty guns because of it.

No I don't think that my missed sales will bankrupt their company. At least if enough people were to boycott them and explain why, they would probably get the point.


Business is in business to do one thing, and one thing only - make a profit. Want to talk about ethics? Shall we get into GM and Chrysler bailouts? Yet the public is now back buying like crazy after there were calls for boycotts. American shoppers have VERY short memories and zero loyalties when it comes to buying something. IF CTD comes back with lower prices than Graf or others, folks will buy from them, just like before.
(Now the bait and switch stuff is a different topic entirely)

Kiln
May 27, 2013, 06:11 PM
Business is in business to do one thing, and one thing only - make a profit. Want to talk about ethics? Shall we get into GM and Chrysler bailouts? Yet the public is now back buying like crazy after there were calls for boycotts. American shoppers have VERY short memories and zero loyalties when it comes to buying something. IF CTD comes back with lower prices than Graf or others, folks will buy from them, just like before.
(Now the bait and switch stuff is a different topic entirely)
You know what? You're right.

Lets say that there's a shortage of insulin and there are lots of diabetic people who would really like to not go into a coma and die.

I would be irresponsible NOT to buy up all of the available insulin and sell it for 10x it's original value. After all, there is no such thing as ethics I shouldn't feel bad doing this. I understand that this is an extreme scenario and ammunition is not life or death but adhering to your ideals, this would be fine.

I just think that a company can make a good profit without doing it in such a dirty way. They'd still have huge quarterly profits if they'd just raised their prices by 3-4 bucks per box of ammo and not a dollar per round.

oneounceload
May 27, 2013, 06:47 PM
Kiln, watch this video, since you mentioned insulin:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=h9QEkw6_O6w

Ash
May 27, 2013, 10:54 PM
I stopped buying from CTD when they started selling mostly crap. I've wandered through their store and discovered there was almost nothing there worth buying.

basicblur
May 27, 2013, 11:04 PM
Well I see they credited my for the refused delivery, and did credit my account, but did NOT refund my shipping (referenced in post #16).
This after being told by TWO operators (second one said she saw the notes from the first one that I WAS to be reimbursed shipping) - guess I'll have to get on the phone to 'em tomorrow to try to straighten this mess out.

I have a feeling I'm going to end up going through my CC company to get my shipping back?

gunnysmith
May 28, 2013, 01:55 AM
Fueling panic to raise profits is never a good business strategy

danez71
May 29, 2013, 12:29 AM
Business is in business to do one thing, and one thing only - make a profit.

I get what you're saying..... but....

What about non-profit businesses? Don't they exist?


Any ways, there is a thing called business ethics. And like personal ethics, everyone has there own moral compass.



Want to talk about ethics? Shall we get into GM and Chrysler bailouts?

Bahhh. The govt basically gave them a loan through buying stock. The govt invested money just like anyone else that bought stock.

csspecs
May 29, 2013, 02:10 AM
I see people complaining about prices as a fair free market practice. I've yet to see anyone asking for laws or restrictions to be placed against them. Any campaign is merely a request to prospective buyers to price check.

There is a restaurant down the road from me that I used to go to all the time. It changed hands a few years ago and the new owner was a self proclaimed capitalist, a "charge as much as you can, give as little as possible, and be proud of it" kinda guy. I walk past their front doors on my way to my new favorite restaurant, and its clear that the business is in a sharp downward spiral, even higher prices to make up for the nearly empty building, bitter service, and a depressing atmosphere.

The place I go to now is constantly packed, good food, lots of it, reasonable prices... And I notice the tip jar for take out is always getting stuffed as people know they are getting a deal and thank the workers with cash.

Free market is more then what people are willing to pay, and more how much reputation you trade for extra profit.

Kiln
May 29, 2013, 02:48 AM
I see people complaining about prices as a fair free market practice. I've yet to see anyone asking for laws or restrictions to be placed against them. Any campaign is merely a request to prospective buyers to price check.

There is a restaurant down the road from me that I used to go to all the time. It changed hands a few years ago and the new owner was a self proclaimed capitalist, a "charge as much as you can, give as little as possible, and be proud of it" kinda guy. I walk past their front doors on my way to my new favorite restaurant, and its clear that the business is in a sharp downward spiral, even higher prices to make up for the nearly empty building, bitter service, and a depressing atmosphere.

The place I go to now is constantly packed, good food, lots of it, reasonable prices... And I notice the tip jar for take out is always getting stuffed as people know they are getting a deal and thank the workers with cash.

Free market is more then what people are willing to pay, and more how much reputation you trade for extra profit.
Exactly. I'm not asking for anyone to limit the free trade market.

I'm asking customers who are annoyed by their ridiculously inflated prices in comparison to other similar companies to let CTD know that their business practices are alienating them and other potential buyers.

Davek1977
May 29, 2013, 06:50 AM
I've never had a good reason to do business with them in the first place. They have, or had, nothing I've needed, that I couldn't get elsewhere for cheaper. I guess you can count me in on a boycott insomuch as one can "boycott" someone they've never done business with. They are free to run their company however they choose to, and if their predatory tactics truly affected their bottom line, they'd likely change them. That doesn't seem to be the case, and CTD has a history of capitalizing on tragic scenarios. If they really were driving customers off in droves, no one would have been shopping there after the $70 boxes of .380 fmj rounds they were selling at the height of the LCP buying frenzy.

fallout mike
May 29, 2013, 11:55 AM
I still look at their magazines but will not buy from them. If I see something I want I order it from somewhere else. I like to actually look at paper sales and monthly magazines.

Arkansas Paul
May 29, 2013, 01:55 PM
Their prices aren't the problem in my opinion. Charge what you want. If I think its too high, I'll pass.
But someone posted here on THR about ordering a few magazines just days before Sandyhook. They received an email saying that they were out of stock and cancelled his order. The next day they raised the price by about 6-7x and they were magically in stock again.
I don't want to do business with people like that, regardless of pricing.

fallout mike
May 29, 2013, 02:05 PM
Their pmags went from $15ish to $100ish overnight in the instance you are referring to.

jrdolall
May 29, 2013, 02:22 PM
I just don't get it. I have used CTD many times in the past with 100% positive results. I have bought magazines, ammo, assorted supplies and a .22 conversion kit for an AR. Every item I have ever ordered has been shipped promptly at the agreed upon price. I shop carefully to avoid their multiple warehouse shenanigans and the shipping has been as reasonable as other online retailers.

Of the other companies that have been praised in this thread I have been unable to even find much of anything to buy since the panic began in December. I have not bought anything from CTD since December because I ain't paying those prices. I did get lucky and bought some .22LR from Graf back in December at pre-panic prices. Since then they have not had .22 bulk at any price. Is it better to have some for sale at a high price or be out at a low price? Widener's is currently $100 per crate higher on Russian 5.45x39 than they were a year ago and $80 higher than two other online retailers. Are they gouging? CTD is considerably lower on .22 mag than other retailers as of this week and most of the other guys don't even have any.

By all means don't use the company if their prices are too high. If the Chevron is $3.49 and the Shell across the street is $3.39 then I am going to voice my displeasure by not buying from that Chevron station. I don't buy from Fresh Market because their prices are too high. I am not saying I approve of CTDs business practices but I guarantee you that most people who are shopping prices online will buy from them if the price is low enough. Walmart is the most hated company in America yet it has been at the top for 25 years. I despise the chain but through all the madness they have been the most consistent with their prices out of all the places I have shopped.

basicblur
May 29, 2013, 08:32 PM
In fairness, I have to give 'em a little credit - they just refunded my shipping for a package which I refused delivery on, but it should never have been shipped in the first place.

It also took an extra phone call to get the shipping removed.

Kiln
June 15, 2013, 12:06 AM
Others had the same idea on the Guns and Ammo site.

Voice your support there too and if you haven't unsubscribed to CTD's email alerts do so and call them up to let them know why.

http://www.gunsandammo.info/blog/ammo-price-gouging

Double Naught Spy
June 15, 2013, 01:09 AM
First of all, I really dislike CTD. I live up the road from them and used to be a regular customer. I still end up there from time to time when somebody from out of town wants to go there.

With that said, that several of you think CTD has such a bad business strategy is pretty darned funny. Out of business next year? I don't think so. Their store is FILLED with people over the weekend every weekend. I don't doubt that during the week that they due a steady business as well.

The brick and mortar store is separate from, but related to the mail order store, but they have a combined synergy and benefit from one another.

CTD is taking their bad business strategy to the bank and have been for years and from the way things look, will continue taking it to the bank for years.

Kiln
June 15, 2013, 03:16 AM
First of all, I really dislike CTD. I live up the road from them and used to be a regular customer. I still end up there from time to time when somebody from out of town wants to go there.

With that said, that several of you think CTD has such a bad business strategy is pretty darned funny. Out of business next year? I don't think so. Their store is FILLED with people over the weekend every weekend. I don't doubt that during the week that they due a steady business as well.

The brick and mortar store is separate from, but related to the mail order store, but they have a combined synergy and benefit from one another.

CTD is taking their bad business strategy to the bank and have been for years and from the way things look, will continue taking it to the bank for years.
Nobody thinks their individual sale is going to bankrupt CTD. Maybe if enough people complained though and didn't just say "good strategy guys" to them then they would get the point.

jhb
June 15, 2013, 10:02 AM
@danez71

non-profit business is just a tax status. it's still just like a business in about every other regard. they still run it to make money, they just don't call it profits. they call it surplus....and rather than hand it over in profits or dividends....they use it to run the business......just like pretty much every other business. the name is massively misleading, as it sounds like they don't make money, but that is the furthest thing from the truth. remember tax status only pretty much....i'm simplifying it, but your following right?

btg3
June 15, 2013, 10:36 AM
Time will tell. CTD's business practices may not suit all, but they will likely maintain a customer base sufficient for their survival, if not their prosperity. FWIW, I've yet to have a need to buy from them.

Double Naught Spy
June 17, 2013, 12:42 AM
Nobody thinks their individual sale is going to bankrupt CTD. Maybe if enough people complained though and didn't just say "good strategy guys" to them then they would get the point.

Not only will these (and my) individual boycotts not affect CTD in any manner they are apt to notice, the point you say they should be getting is meaningless as they make money hand over fist.

It doesn't matter if we think it is good or bad. The fact remains is that they have been and continue to do very well with high traffic and lots of business.

If you enjoyed reading about "Campaign against CTD." here in TheHighRoad.org archive, you'll LOVE our community. Come join TheHighRoad.org today for the full version!