Using N110 with 357 & 44 mag


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ArtP
May 7, 2013, 11:03 PM
I'm considering switching from H110/W296 to N110 in 357 & 44 mag. I'm using common bullet weights. I can actually get VV powders and supposedly there's less flash and blast with N110.

However, I'm finding significant load data differences between Hornady (and most other sources) and VV. I don't mean the small differences we normally see. Example:

357 125 JHP, N110

Hornady max 16.1 @ 1500 (mag primer)
VV max 18.4 @ 1772 (std primer)

Same bbl length. Most of VV numbers are hotter than typical American manufacturers, at least in pistols. I doubt this is a typo.

If you've used VV powders in these calibers, whose numbers did you use and what was your experience? Any thoughts on the primer difference?

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Walkalong
May 8, 2013, 11:24 AM
The Vihtavuori PDF data is pretty optimistic as far as FPS goes.

I love N-110 in .44 Mag. I haven't been able to get enough in a .357 Mag case to get good velocity.

jr_roosa
May 8, 2013, 11:50 AM
Same bbl length. Most of VV numbers are hotter than typical American manufacturers, at least in pistols. I doubt this is a typo.

I think the american data use actual revolvers with a cylinder gap and VV uses a pressure barrel, so there would be some of the lost velocity.

The VV N-110 .357 mag data are pretty spicy IMO. I think that holds across the board for their data. Their max load for me is so compressed that I couldn't get consistent bullet seating. I stick with the Hornady max for .357mag, and even a little lower since I use a Model 19, which I don't like to beat up.

As for primers and numbers, I use Federal SP Mag Match primers for the very scientific reason that it's all they had on the shelves during the last shortage.

My most recent data are here:
Batch Caliber Date Brass Resized To Primer Powder Powder Wt Bullet Wt Bullet Style Seat To Weapon Mark FPS +/- SD Chrony Ft Alt Temp
JR141A .357 Magnum 25-Nov-12 Win FSPMMtch VV-N110 11.5 158 Hornady HP-XTP 1.590 M19 O 934.8 131.6 50.25 10 7880 66
JR141B .357 Magnum 25-Nov-12 Win FSPMMtch VV-N110 12 158 Hornady HP-XTP 1.590 M19 I 987.7 186 76.05 10 7880 66
JR141C .357 Magnum 25-Nov-12 Win FSPMMtch VV-N110 12.5 158 Hornady HP-XTP 1.590 M19 II 1102 46.68 18.33 10 7880 66
JR141D .357 Magnum 25-Nov-12 Win FSPMMtch VV-N110 13 158 Hornady HP-XTP 1.590 M19 + 1061 64.3 26.26 10 7880 66

My pistol always has poor velocity spreads and SDs. You like how the 12.5 goes faster than the 13 grain batch?

VV says that for a 158 grain bullet I should be able to load up to 15.9 grains and that will give me almost 1600 FPS. Starting load is 15.1 grains. Ha. I start getting cases stuck in the cylinder at around 14 grains.

It works, though, and nobody uses it, so it's easy to find online most of the time. I don't know about flash. I shoot in the daytime.

-J.

warhwkbb
May 8, 2013, 12:49 PM
Except for price, it works as well as H110\W296. It seems a bit softer in recoil and smells better too.

ArtP
May 8, 2013, 04:02 PM
Thanks for your notes.

Walkalong: Were you having capacity issues with lighter bullets, like 125's?

JR_Roosa: Yup, your real life numbers are nowhere close to VV claims. Thank you for sharing that data. IIRC, VV testing was with an actual revolver. What are you getting with American powders?

I ordered it off Powder Valley. I'm a week or two into the month it's taking them to process.

jr_roosa
May 8, 2013, 04:13 PM
I only have 38 special data with power pistol and bullseye out of that gun. I so infrequently shoot 357 mag that I got the n110 and it went bang and I called it good.

J.

Walkalong
May 8, 2013, 04:14 PM
I logged 16.0 Grs as "compressed" and got 1266 FPS from a 6" M-28 (Slow barrel) with a 140 Gr XTP loaded at 1.272 and rolled crimped in the cannelure. 1192 from a 2 /12" 686.Temps were in the 50's. I logged "some unburned powder". ES's in the 80's. I noted that I might try 17.0 Grs, but never have.

Their max load for me is so compressed that I couldn't get consistent bullet seating.I have run into this before with a different load. Way too much compression when that is happening.

gamestalker
May 8, 2013, 05:33 PM
My observations were about the same as Walkalong. I found it too slow burning for .357 mag., but in 44 mag it was great. For me, I stuck with H110 / 296 because it works great in all the magnum wheel gun cartridges.

GS

ArchAngelCD
May 9, 2013, 07:31 AM
One possible reason for the different data.

VV, now owned by Lapua is not an American company so instead of using SAAMI pressure limits for the .357 Magnum (35,000 psi) they may be using CIP pressure limits (44,000 psi) which are often higher than SAAMI numbers. (in this case A LOT higher) If they are using CIP that would easily explain why the VV data uses so much more powder than Hornady does.

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