Is this NFA?


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stumpers
May 8, 2013, 01:08 PM
I just saw this on Armlist. I was browsing for a charger and came across this.

Is this okay because it's a also a bipod? I would guess not.

http://www.thehighroad.org/attachment.php?attachmentid=183724&stc=1&d=1368032868

http://www.thehighroad.org/attachment.php?attachmentid=183725&stc=1&d=1368032868

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thepumpfaction
May 8, 2013, 01:15 PM
It's NFA. You cant have a foregrip if you don't have a stock.

highorder
May 8, 2013, 01:16 PM
Unless something has changed, a vertical grip on a pistol is still NFA.

An angled foregrip is totally acceptable.

Go figure.

Sam1911
May 8, 2013, 01:29 PM
Yet another example of how very simple technology improvements make a mockery of all the venerable old legal technicalities we struggle under.

But...absent a letter from the Tech Branch to the contrary, there's no way in Hades I'm putting such a thing together without a Form 1.

stumpers
May 8, 2013, 02:08 PM
I see quite a bit of stuff posted like this - People obviously are not aware of the NFA. I wasn't certain, so I asked all of you before I maybe go take a look at something that's illegal and have the cops show up as some guy is trying to hand me an unstamped AOW or whatever.

I doubt there's a chance that seller and I would agree on price, but nevertheless...Chargers seem fun and I'm on the lookout.

MilliradianDOT
May 8, 2013, 02:28 PM
Wait why does it have a carry handle? What do you aim with?

Carl N. Brown
May 8, 2013, 03:17 PM
^ Charging handle could be used as base for scope (or since it is an aftermarket add-on it could include a front sight post in the handle).

On other questions:

I guess you would have to contact the seller to determine if it was papered as an AOW.

I guess you would have to contact ATF Firearms Technology Branch if they consider the vertical foregrip w. bipod "pistol" as the same as a vertical foregrip AOW. (The plain jane Charger comes with a bipod.)

MasterSergeantA
May 8, 2013, 04:43 PM
The "Grip Pod" is a "grip" first and THEN a "bipod". It is illegal in the pictured configuration unless already registered as an AOW.

http://www.grippod.com/

The manufacturer refers to it as a "Vertical Foregrip with Integrated Automatic Bipod" so there really isn't any way to argue to the contrary.

I use them on some of my rifles, by the way, and they are a good product.

A simple bipod could be grabbed (usually the leg on the weak hand side) and used to steady it while shooting, but that is not its DESIGNED use and that is why it is legal on the Charger.

stumpers
May 8, 2013, 05:08 PM
The manufacturer refers to it as a "Vertical Foregrip with Integrated Automatic Bipod" so there really isn't any way to argue to the contrary.

Makes sense - which was my original question, although not phrased concisely.

The guy emailed me back and said it's a bipod, so it's legal. He also said it's not coming off because it adds to the gun and looks cool.

I said "no thanks, but good luck."

Aaron Baker
May 9, 2013, 10:05 PM
If the ATF busts his door down and prosecutes him, which seems very unlikely, he'll have a good legal defense, in my humble opinion only. That is that the Charger was originally designed to be held in one hand. Adding a vertical foregrip doesn't change the original design. "Original design" is what defines a handgun, and my opinion is that the ATF is wrong in saying that adding a vertical grip in the aftermarket changes the original design and therefore makes it an AOW.

But the ATF does take the position that the gun pictured is an AOW, so I'd stay away from it.

Aaron

Caliper_RWVA
May 11, 2013, 08:16 AM
Well, since this is the first double action Charger I have seen, clearly this guy really knows his way around a gun...

Also the fact that his description makes it sound like the stock on it started as a rifle stock (shortened archangel stock) may getnthe ATF interested. :uhoh:

MasterSergeantA
May 12, 2013, 12:49 AM
Shortening a rifle stock for use on a pistol isn't a problem so long as the resulting firearm still cannot be fired from the shoulder. He probably just shortened the forend and put a plug in the rear of the unit where the stock would attach.

He is still asking for trouble with the Grip Pod.

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