Defense Distributed Site DEFCAD down, shows message claiming request from US Departme


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Dean Weingarten
May 9, 2013, 05:26 PM
The DEFCAD site shows the following:

DEFCAD files are being removed from public access at the request of the US Department of Defense Trade Controls.


Until further notice, the United States government claims control of the information.

Link to DEFCAD site here

We do not know if this is real or not. There was a similar spoof done on April 1st.

Link to April 1st spoof story "Breaking: Defense Distributed website seized, Cody Wilson arrested on conspiracy charges!"

We will learn more in the next few hours. This may be real.

©2013 by Dean Weingarten Permission to share granted as long as this notice is included.

http://gunwatch.blogspot.com/2013/05/defense-distributed-site-defcad-down.html

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MErl
May 9, 2013, 05:28 PM
he probably did violate ITAR (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/ITAR)

HarcyPervin
May 9, 2013, 05:33 PM
Twitter shows: #DEFCAD has gone dark at the request of the Department of Defense Trade Controls. Take it up with the Secretary of State

Dean Weingarten
May 9, 2013, 05:40 PM
Given that everyone likely violates several felonies each day, whether they want to or not, maybe they violated ITAR.

Hard to see how in any real way, though.

CoRoMo
May 9, 2013, 05:40 PM
The word that I've come across is that...

Cody removed the file from the site himself when confronted by .gov and is attempting to come to an agreement with them. He mentioned it in an interview today as well.

The file has been downloaded over 100,000 times and is still up in a lot of places where it's been reposted. I was able to find it in only a few minutes search.

wrc
May 9, 2013, 05:50 PM
That'll keep the Russians from getting those sweet, sweet pistol plans!

Dean Weingarten
May 9, 2013, 06:04 PM
Thank you for your insight. It does appear that it is "voluntary" under pressure, sort of.

12many
May 9, 2013, 06:06 PM
Land of the free.

r1derbike
May 9, 2013, 06:13 PM
Home of the brave.

Bubbles
May 9, 2013, 06:22 PM
Oops, not only firearms are regulated under ITAR. Many other items, including certain software algorithms, are also deemed "defense articles" and are subject to export controls. This should be interesting to watch play out, though the whole "US government claims control" is a bit much. USGov can say "do not export this" which pretty effectively removes it from the public domain.

Of course, if the files have been downloaded over 100,000 times and are hosted on several other sites, this genie is long gone from the bottle.

CoRoMo
May 9, 2013, 06:27 PM
Yeah, you can't un-break an egg. It's out and staying out.

BoilerUP
May 9, 2013, 06:28 PM
Seems like a stretch to argue a CAD file for a plastic 3D printed pistol is a risk to national security...

Teachu2
May 9, 2013, 06:36 PM
Seems like a stretch to argue a CAD file for a plastic 3D printed pistol is a risk to national security...
A deadly weapon that current detection protocols won't detect? Yeah, no threat THERE! :banghead:

BoilerUP
May 9, 2013, 06:43 PM
A deadly weapon that current detection protocols won't detect? Yeah, no threat THERE! :banghead:

Get back to me when they create plastic ammunition.

Fryerpower
May 9, 2013, 07:10 PM
Get back to me when they create plastic ammunition.

And a ceramic firing pin.

At that point you will have a single shot lump of plastic. Might be a threat if you filled a suitcase with them and used them as New York reloads.

Jim

Bartholomew Roberts
May 9, 2013, 07:15 PM
A single shot lump of plastic that is the size of a Ruger Blackhawk and three times as bulky. Personally, if you are going to shoot at me, my two top choices would be:

1. The non-AOW pen gun that you have to fold origami style in order to shoot your single shot of .22LR

2. This thing

Dean Weingarten
May 9, 2013, 07:28 PM
No more of a threat than a composite dagger, I would say.

csspecs
May 9, 2013, 07:41 PM
I don't see the threat.. Its basically a zip gun that costs a lot to make.
Sure its all plastic, but surprising as it may be its been done before with basic hand tools and plastic readily available.. Whats more is it requires less then $200 in tools to make, rather than a $20K+ printer.

RX-178
May 9, 2013, 07:54 PM
The government can send a letter requesting you to do anything at all, it doesn't necessarily mean that they have a real, legal basis (even though they claim one).

In this case, the State Department REQUESTED that Cody Wilson remove his files, and he complied.

...And now that DEFCAD is dark, hundreds of TIMES more people are finding the files on anonymous servers, and bittorrent, because they want to get them while they can. And these people share it further.

You think maybe Cody Wilson WANTS this to happen?

jerkface11
May 9, 2013, 08:36 PM
This is going to get good fast.

barnbwt
May 9, 2013, 09:15 PM
he probably did violate ITAR
International Traffic in Arms Regulations (ITAR) is a set of United States government regulations that control the export and import of defense-related articles and services on the United States Munitions List (USML).
from wiki link on the List:
"1.Firearms, Close Assault Weapons* and Combat Shotguns
2.Guns and Armament"
"Any article, service, or related data found to be on the USML requires an export license issued by the United States State Department to be exported (given to a non-U.S. person). "

Yeah, apparently ITAR gives the feds dominion over the trade of any technology or product developed so long as it pertains to 20 extremely vague categories, which, I suppose is a legitimate function of our federal government, at least. But if we accept that "information" itself, in the form of digital data, is subject to Federal review, then the entire contents of the internet related to those 20 categories is subject to Federal review and approval since it is accessible to the World Wide Web, under penalty of heavy fines/jailtime. Our tips/tricks on AR selection, usage, and construction are certainly in the vein of "military weapons related," don't you think?

Who wants to bet both DARPA and the Russian/Chinese/Iranian/Israeli equivalents have had undetectable firearms for years, now? :scrutiny: Or do we really think some T-sip stumbled upon something they are wholly unprepared for?

You think maybe Cody Wilson WANTS this to happen?

+1. This is the "logical conclusion" his poking of the ATF bear was intended to illicit. I do applaud his willingness--nay, eagerness--to comply with their shrieking displeasure. If there is one thing self-proclaimed "free market anarchist" Cody Wilson cannot be accused of, it is resisting laws or intentionally breaking them. An example of this is the fact the pistol is smooth-bore, which would make it's construction illegal since it'd be a SBS or AOW (I forget which)--technically, he is not distributing a legally buildable gun, so I could easily see him argue that he is not actually distributing a (legally buildable) firearm because the printer would be already choosing to violate NFA laws. Plastic printers are wholly capable of printing rifling (probably functional, too) along with the barrel ;)

To be frank, I believe the only legitimate way Cody could be actually barred from distributing this, is some cooked up claim of national security risk. The fact that this tactic wasn't even used suggests to me, that there is no risk posed by the technology, everyone knows it, and they are falling back on the tried-and-true solution of forcing this malcontent to deal with an extremely unhelpful and expensive bureaucracy. If he comes up with a plastic semi-auto, I could see the ATF requesting he submit a sample for "convertability" analysis, but even then, merely distributing the plans for illegal machineguns is, not itself, illegal. The building and possession is, which is why they have to fall back on some broad application of an obviously inapplicable law.

*What the heck is a "close assault weapon?" A Google search turns up nothing but the Halo shotgun :confused:

Download:
This file has been removed from public access at the request of the US Department of Defense Trade Controls. Until further notice, the United States government claims control of the information.
http://i.imgur.com/2P25RNv.png

Spooky indeed, but the source of the image is "http://i.imgur.com/2P25RNv.png" --I have a feeling the ATF has its own image server :D. I'm sure Cody is just impressing upon us who is responsible for his decision ;)

Old Fuff
May 9, 2013, 10:13 PM
Ah me.... :uhoh:

When the news gets out we'll see another run on guns and ammunition by frightened buyers. :banghead:

bigdaa
May 9, 2013, 10:18 PM
Get back to me when they create plastic ammunition.
And take out the metal plate addition that triggers metal detectors.

RX-178
May 9, 2013, 10:23 PM
Since you're worried about the word getting out, Old Fluff...


...This story's right on the front page of Foxnews.com as we speak.

barnbwt
May 9, 2013, 10:36 PM
...This story's right on the front page of Foxnews.com as we speak.
IF history is any guide, the more prominent this story is, the more unimportant it actually is. Is Lautenberg's goofy plan to register handloaders getting any press? And is the ammo situation easing greatly? Let's not stay too focused on only one half of the gun-control equation.

I'm sure you could print out one-use plastic cases for low pressure rounds; possibly even rimfire cases. Bullets would be easy to make as well (but probably ineffective at the speeds low-pressure cartridges could deliver them)

TCB

DeadMoneyDrew
May 10, 2013, 12:05 AM
The word that I've come across is that...

Cody removed the file from the site himself when confronted by .gov and is attempting to come to an agreement with them. He mentioned it in an interview today as well.

The file has been downloaded over 100,000 times and is still up in a lot of places where it's been reposted. I was able to find it in only a few minutes search.

Pretty much this. I found a link to the download for the Liberator pistol in an article on Google News. I'm sure I can find the other files fairly easily too. It's gonna be hard to unring this bell.

X-JaVeN-X
May 10, 2013, 12:13 AM
lol...silly government...it's on the interwebz now...you're not stopping a darn thing. This will only make countless others download the file "just because"... Oh you antis...bless your retarded hearts.

Edit: Just to prove my point...I downloaded the files just now...it took all of 15 seconds to find them with a google search. Anybody want the link? lol

If so, click ==>HERE (https://www.dropbox.com/s/68vh3nj4w6lcp63/Liberator.zip)

The zip file has all 16 parts...

DeadMoneyDrew
May 10, 2013, 12:25 AM
^ that link doesn't work.

And yes, I am one of the people who will download the files just because the gubernmint has tried to make it hard for me to do so. Otherwise I have no real use for them.

X-JaVeN-X
May 10, 2013, 12:32 AM
^ that link doesn't work.

And yes, I am one of the people who will download the files just because the gubernmint has tried to make it hard for me to do so. Otherwise I have no real use for them.
Link should work now...Click link and then download the zip file.

DeadMoneyDrew
May 10, 2013, 12:59 AM
yep, link confirmed working. that's the same file that I found linked in an article earlier. Sometime this weekend I'll look for the AR 15 and magazine files as well. I'll put the over/under on the time it takes me to find copies of those files at 10 minutes, and I'll take the under.

Smatek1001
May 10, 2013, 01:10 AM
Help us Barbara Streisand, you're our only hope!

The Liberator
http://thepiratebay.sx/torrent/8449468/Liberator_-_First_3D_Printable_Gun

Everything else
http://thepiratebay.sx/torrent/8387853/DefDist_DEFCAD_MEGA_PACK_v4.2_%28Saito%29

KMatch
May 10, 2013, 10:19 AM
701 seeds, + me... Yep, they sure did a good job keeping us safe by killing circulation of those dangerous weapons! I feel safer already.

Ranger Roberts
May 10, 2013, 10:35 AM
I don't know if any of you guys are UFC fans, but about a year ago UFC president Dana White was complaining that people were illegally streaming/downloading UFC pay per views. As he is saying this the color commentator (Joe Rogan) says "you can't stop the internet". I think that definitely applies here. Those files are out there and there is no way to stop them now!

berettaprofessor
May 10, 2013, 12:04 PM
Thank you X-JaVen-X! I had trouble from spam on the PirateX site, but the Dropbox works great. They'll get my DD plans when they pry them from my cold dead computer...and my USB drives...and my plug-in hard drives...and the DVD's I made.

CoRoMo
May 10, 2013, 12:29 PM
It's gonna be hard to unring this bell.
Cody has accomplished his goal in absolute entirety. I know that he never wanted his efforts yanked like this, but his end goal was to ring this bell, and he did. It is out and it ain't going back in.

Despite that a lot of 2A supporters are looking at this new development as a failure or a defeat, this is a total success. The accomplishment was reached.

baz
May 10, 2013, 09:35 PM
he probably did violate ITARHe doesn't think so: In response, Cody decided to comply with the government’s request. For now. But as he noted when we talked, this isn’t the end of the road. The government has provided a period of time for Defense Distributed to reply and prove that their actions were lawful. And according to Cody, he thinks he has this rap beat. Apparently there’s an exemption from the ITAR regulations for non-profit organizations working in the public domain, which is exactly what they are doing.

Source (http://www.thetruthaboutguns.com/2013/05/foghorn/cody-wilson-talks-to-ttag-about-the-dod-takedown-letter-path-forward/#more-226135).

DeadMoneyDrew
May 10, 2013, 10:01 PM
yep, link confirmed working. that's the same file that I found linked in an article earlier. Sometime this weekend I'll look for the AR 15 and magazine files as well. I'll put the over/under on the time it takes me to find copies of those files at 10 minutes, and I'll take the under.
Help us Barbara Streisand, you're our only hope!

The Liberator
http://thepiratebay.sx/torrent/8449468/Liberator_-_First_3D_Printable_Gun

Everything else
http://thepiratebay.sx/torrent/8387853/DefDist_DEFCAD_MEGA_PACK_v4.2_%28Saito%29

LOL thanks Smatek. I didn't even have to search...so I guess I win the bet against myself that I could find it in under 10 minutes. Does 0 minutes count? And who pays me the bet that I won? :D

Sam Cade
May 10, 2013, 10:08 PM
Well, I'm now set to seed the files, *forever*.

Muhaha!

barnbwt
May 10, 2013, 11:41 PM
Apparently there’s an exemption from the ITAR regulations for non-profit organizations working in the public domain
No way. There's no way the ITAR law would be crafted with an exemption that would allow United Way to freely distribute nuke secrets to the Russians :D :D :D

I heard Cody applied (and was denied) for an FFL recently, but now he's trying to be a non-profit? Has he applied (and received) IRS status to that effect? Seems contradictory. I sure hope the Feds don't go after him (I think they'd have a tough sell considering how accommodating he has been with there requests) but I think they may have a point here that he could have violated arms control laws.

The real question is; "is the 150+ year old technology of a squeeze-cocker really a military trade secret that requires Federal oversight?"

Anyone who took Material Science or can read Wikipedia can figure out the numbers to build a low-power plastic pistol--just like Cody (or his engineer friend) has. None of the technologies used to build the thing are secret, nor is the combination of them particularly "novel." It's just that nobody has bothered to do the legwork required to build a working gun through this (for the immediate future) impractical means.

TCB

BearAZ737
May 11, 2013, 12:45 AM
I downloaded those files too! I did it just because I knew they would try to remove them at some point. My friend has a 3D printer and we tried printing the magazines. It didn't wok for the desktop printers. But still pretty cool. We got the 10rd magazine to work though.

Bovice
May 11, 2013, 04:01 AM
No way. There's no way the ITAR law would be crafted with an exemption that would allow United Way to freely distribute nuke secrets to the Russians :D :D :D

I heard Cody applied (and was denied) for an FFL recently, but now he's trying to be a non-profit? Has he applied (and received) IRS status to that effect? Seems contradictory. I sure hope the Feds don't go after him (I think they'd have a tough sell considering how accommodating he has been with there requests) but I think they may have a point here that he could have violated arms control laws.

The real question is; "is the 150+ year old technology of a squeeze-cocker really a military trade secret that requires Federal oversight?"

Anyone who took Material Science or can read Wikipedia can figure out the numbers to build a low-power plastic pistol--just like Cody (or his engineer friend) has. None of the technologies used to build the thing are secret, nor is the combination of them particularly "novel." It's just that nobody has bothered to do the legwork required to build a working gun through this (for the immediate future) impractical means.

TCB
This. As an engineer, you learn all sorts of things that can either work to further mankind or for nefarious ends. As far as I know, there are no legal restrictions on obtaining a degree in engineering. To do defense work you'll need a clearance. Which is amusing. We let all kinds of foreigners into our colleges, engineering is particularly affected. They learn the same things those guys with clearances learned.

What I'm saying is that secrets are futile as long as our educational institutions create a leak. Once a discovery or invention is made, it's a matter of time before it's gotten out. People have a way of figuring things out.

ol' scratch
May 11, 2013, 06:13 AM
This is a violation of the first amendment of the constitution. This information is made available freely. The company is not breaking any laws and they are not distributing the actual firearm without a license. What a bunch of garbage. I am glad I have my digital copy of the Liberator already. Def Cad also made available plans for AR lowers, mags and a .22 cal suppressor. I have added the information to other information I collect including my digital copies of The Anarchist Cookbook and the Patriot Act (it is a violation of the Patriot Act for the American public to know what is in it, or at least it was). Information of all types should be available to everyone...period. Government is about control. Anyone who says otherwise is delusional or running for office. We will see this again in a court case. Mark my words it will happen.

Carl N. Brown
May 11, 2013, 07:11 AM
I read the country with the most of the downloads was Spain.

barnbwt
May 11, 2013, 10:50 AM
I read the country with the most of the downloads was Spain.
A wise people who remember their recent history, and understand the struggles ahead of their nation in the years to come. If Greeks were smart they'd be doing the same.

I heard Germany, Britain, and Brazil were also heavy users :neener:. I'm guessing the US, Switzerland, and Somalia (:rolleyes:) had the fewest downloads per capita :D

TCB

we are not amused
May 11, 2013, 02:03 PM
A deadly weapon that current detection protocols won't detect? Yeah, no threat THERE! :banghead:
Sorry to bust your bubble, but there are plenty of weapons one could smuggle aboard planes that are every bit effective as a one shot derringer, and are even more undetectable due the fact that they don't require a metal rod (nail) and metallic cartridge to work.

The plastic pistol is interesting from a gun control standpoint, in that it is the equivalent of the one shot "Liberator" of WWII fame, and could be made by anyone with access to the proper 3D printer. I remember when the Glock first came out and everyone freaked out about plastic guns, including gun owners and so-called gun "experts", who should of known better.

At the current time, the concept is a toy, as the proper 3D printers are few and far between. In the future, I can see a high tech, totalitarian ruled Nation being very nervous what comes off of an automated assembly line after the workers and guards go home.:evil:

MagnumWill
May 11, 2013, 03:37 PM
Heheh. Thanks Javen and Smatek :p

Texan Scott
May 11, 2013, 03:46 PM
Imagine the confused consternation of the Founding Fathers if we could tell them an American citizen was in trouble for publishing schematics of a single shot pistol...

JAMES: "They're trying to control the making of arms!?"

BEN: "And the free use of the printing press!"

TOM: "We need to clarify such things in written law! Some sort of list of rights, a 'bill of rights', if ye will..."

2@low8
May 11, 2013, 05:15 PM
In the vain of this thread, can anyone provide a link to a downloadable 3D program for the “600+” AR-15 lower?

Thanks... Frankie

barnbwt
May 12, 2013, 12:05 AM
Imagine the confused consternation of the Founding Fathers if we could tell them an American citizen was in trouble for publishing schematics of a single shot pistol...


James: "Oh my Lord, Airplanes!" :eek:
Tom: "Oh my Lord, Computers!" :what:
Ben: "Praise the Lord, unattached women!" :cool:

TCB

PedalBiker
May 12, 2013, 12:16 AM
A plastic pistol is far more suited to using compressed gas and longer projectiles.

Then it would really be undetectable by metal detectors (carbon fiber gas cannister, plastic arrow/spear).

It's not like you couldn't make a dive style spear gun out of all plastic.

This little stunt is entertaining, the .gov response is equally entertaining. Security theater at it's best.

Texan Scott
May 12, 2013, 01:39 AM
Ben: "Praise the Lord, unattached women!"
LMAO, barnbwt! Sounds about right for ol' Ben, too.
Of course, there'd be George: "hehehehee, this is a species of HEMP, did you say?".

But joking aside, I still think they'd be APPALLED at what their nation has become

Darkbob
May 12, 2013, 10:39 AM
In the vain of this thread, can anyone provide a link to a downloadable 3D program for the “600+” AR-15 lower?

Thanks... Frankie

The second link in post 32 is the "megapack" which does contain the lower that fired 600+ rounds. It's called "AR-15_Reinforced_Lower_Receiver" and it's in the Rifles subcategory.

FIVETWOSEVEN
May 12, 2013, 01:09 PM
Oh no! Such new and dangerous technology!

http://www.imfdb.org/images/thumb/a/a8/Comppist.JPG/400px-Comppist.JPG
http://www.imfdb.org/wiki/In_The_Line_of_Fire#Composite_Pistol

An example of this is the fact the pistol is smooth-bore, which would make it's construction illegal since it'd be a SBS or AOW (I forget which)--

I don't know for sure but it could have been made with a rifled barrel. It may not work as a rifled barrel but all that counts is that it has rifling.

I'm tempted to get a 3D printer now. :p

Bruno2
May 14, 2013, 12:28 AM
I don't see why they cant make it look like a 1911? That pic above is the best looking 3D printed gun I have seen, but it still looks a little toyish.

jerkface11
May 14, 2013, 12:33 AM
It's not 3d printed. It's from "In The Line Of Fire". Someone needs to brush up on his Clint Eastwood movies.

Bruno2
May 14, 2013, 12:40 AM
Did anybody else find it strange that the gov asked him to prove he didn't violate the laws? That's sort of their job in the courts. You know innocent until proven guilty and all that stuff? 5th amendment , a right to not self incriminate.

How is this different than say "The Anarchist Cookbook" or the old "SOF" magazines? Its just info on how to build something.

henschman
May 14, 2013, 01:48 AM
It is a real stretch to call making something available for download "exporting." The Feds are really grasping for straws.

M-Cameron
May 14, 2013, 09:00 AM
It is a real stretch to call making something available for download "exporting." The Feds are really grasping for straws.



The releasing if technical specs or the making available to foreign entities information controlled under ITAR is a violation of ITAR..... It doesn't matter how you do it. So the fact that they are claiming a violation because he made it available for download is not all that ridiculous....


I think the ridiculous part is that the govt considers a zip gun to be a threat to national security and something that we can't let into the hands of foreign govts.....

I don't exactly see the KGB plotting terror against the USA with plans for a crappy gun they found on the Internet....

jerkface11
May 14, 2013, 09:42 AM
I don't exactly see the KGB plotting terror against the USA with plans for a crappy gun they found on the Internet....

Al Qeida once tried to build a nuclear weapon with plans from the internet. Turned out the plans were from an issue of National Lampoons.

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