7.62x25 bolt rifle?


PDA






stubbicatt
May 10, 2013, 02:43 PM
Anybody know if there is a production rifle available in the mighty Tokarev cartridge? Maybe a T/C Contender?

Thanks.

If you enjoyed reading about "7.62x25 bolt rifle?" here in TheHighRoad.org archive, you'll LOVE our community. Come join TheHighRoad.org today for the full version!
Ed Ames
May 10, 2013, 03:29 PM
You can get chamber adapters to fire them from mosins (7.62x54r).

I have no experience with them but I've seen 'em advertised.

wnycollector
May 10, 2013, 08:41 PM
I have used both 7.62x25 to 308 and 7.62x25 to 7.62x54 chamber adapters over the years. When tok ammo was inexpensive a half dozen years ago I used them a lot, but once the supply of inexpensive ammo dried up they have not been to the range in a long time.

303tom
May 10, 2013, 10:34 PM
I am sure these people can build you one if you just have to have one................

http://www.specialinterestarms.com/index.php?page=home

Romeo 33 Delta
May 10, 2013, 11:38 PM
Not a bolt gun, but I wildcatted a 38 Long Colt rimmed cartridge into a 7.62 X 25R and had a Martini Cadet single shot rifle chambered for it. Talk about a SWEET, little cartridge!!!:D

jpwilly
May 12, 2013, 11:44 AM
Not sure about a bolt rifle but this in particular looks very interesting! http://centerfiresystems.com/pps43-pis.aspx

WardenWolf
May 12, 2013, 04:49 PM
From what I've read, 7.62x25 does not really gain any velocity from a rifle-length barrel. Its powder charge is calibrated perfectly to get the maximum velocity out of a pistol.

kBob
May 12, 2013, 05:12 PM
So anyone got a Destroyer Carbine with a rusted / shot out barrel?

Rebarrel that puppy in 7.62 Tok and get back with us!

Hmmm. What was the name of those cheap Remingtons from the late 60's with the short throw bolts? Had removable mags and multi lug bolts? How about rebarreling the .222 model to take 7.62 Tok and some sort of pistol mag?

I do believe there is a difference in actual muzzle velocity between pistol length barreled 7.62 Tok guns and say a PPsH -41 plus no one says the OP might not be into reloading and might make a 7.62 Tok load with slower burning powders.

good think I never win the big lottos or crap like that might be littering up my shop.

-kBob

barnbwt
May 12, 2013, 08:54 PM
From what I've read, 7.62x25 does not really gain any velocity from a rifle-length barrel. Its powder charge is calibrated perfectly to get the maximum velocity out of a pistol.

I always thought the big fireball was a bunch of untapped potential; much like the bright flash from a short 357 (or any other) magnum is from powder that hasn't quite burned, and which can be exploited in a longer barrel.

Anyone have velocity data from SMG barrels (if nothing else)?

TCB

stubbicatt
May 12, 2013, 09:10 PM
Oooh! A Destroyer carbine! That would be cool. Maybe one of those Camp 9 carbines would also work in a pinch.

wnycollector
May 12, 2013, 09:27 PM
Anyone have velocity data from SMG barrels (if nothing else)?

It's not a SMG barrel but IIRC I was getting ~1890fps from surplus Bulgarian and ~1750fps from wolf gold out of my Ishapore Enfield using a 7.62x25 to 308 chamber adapter.

kBob
May 13, 2013, 07:48 AM
Winnie,

What sort of accuracy were you getting with the Indian Enfield and adaptor at tree rat to rabbit ranges (25 to 50 yards)?

How did accuracy compare at those ranges to full blown 7.62 NATO?

-kBob

wnycollector
May 13, 2013, 12:11 PM
The accuracy of the tokarev ammo out of the enfield was excellent out to~75 yards. You would have no problem hitting a rabbit or squirrel in the 25-50 yard range.

Kachok
May 13, 2013, 05:14 PM
Any carbine length barrel should gain 100-200fps with a high intensity pistol cartridge, we see that all the time with lever action 357s and 9mm sub guns. I don't see any reason the 7.62x25 should be any different, it has plenty of case volume for it's bore.

Ash
May 14, 2013, 05:48 AM
I always thought a modern M1 Carbine in the caliber would be interesting. Or, take one of the 9mm carbines and try it out. You couldn't use the Hi Point because of the magazine-in-the-grip issue, but others could be redesigned with rather minimal changes. For that matter, a tube magazine would work just fine.

P5 Guy
May 14, 2013, 06:03 PM
XP-100 reworked for the 7.62x25?
:)

Robbins290
May 14, 2013, 06:38 PM
I would love a rifle in 7.62x25. I wonder how the chamber adopters work

coalbed
May 28, 2013, 03:19 AM
Thought I'd jump in, I think a Destroyer carbine would be the best bet (if you can find one). I started to build the very thing about 10 years ago when ammo was real cheap, CZ-52 pistols hit the market and Destroyers were still around. I seem to remember the magazine wasn't quite long enough and some fitting would be required. I wouldn't re-barrel anything for a pistol cartridge, I would have it re-lined to .308, then chambered for the tok round, accuracy difference at that velocity isn't worth the money and you get to keep the barrel contour the same as well as the finish (if lucky and the smith doesn't over heat the silver). At the time I wanted to do it, I had a job change out of state and never got to do the project. Let me know what you come up with, I still would like something like that to work loads up in. That said, Star pistols in 9mm largo are cheap again and so is 9mm largo ammo lol. I probably would just buy more 9mm largo if I found a Destroyer now days. I still have an old Astra 400 in it. Its a pretty good round loaded to Euro standards on its own. * A word on the Adapters, I bought one from that guy in Alaska to shoot 7.62x39 in .30-'06, I put it in there just like it said and only used brass cased like it said, but on the 1st day I went out, (about a week after I installed it, plenty of cure time) I shot maybe 7-8 shots and it came out. The brass was stuck in there so bad I couldn't get it out. I tried to take a punch and drift it out, it came but the punch also hit the neck of the adapter and split it. I won't buy another. Bad thing was that for those few rounds, my .310 barrel 1909 Argentine Mauser factory re-chambered in .30-'06, gave the best 100 round groups of its life with me. I sooo wish it would have worked.

coalbed
May 28, 2013, 03:26 AM
More recently I bought a Polish PPS43-C in 7.62x25 to do the "testing" in. I've had ALLOT of trouble with it not functioning and am just now got around to sending it back tomorrow. Has anyone else bought one of these and had good or bad luck with it?

WardenWolf
May 28, 2013, 10:48 AM
I can't really say anything about the PPS43-C rifles, but I've heard good things about Century's Finnish Suomi builds. All reports say they work perfectly with the stick mags, but not the drum; this is forgivable and understandable since the Suomi was originally an open-bolt gun, and changing to closed-bolt can affect magazine timing.

303tom
May 28, 2013, 10:56 AM
I use Adapters & like em, but I am not going to use one you got to glue in, I use .30 carbine & 7.62x25.................

zxcvbob
May 28, 2013, 11:20 AM
Y'all do know that 7.62x25 is a less powerful cartridge than .30 M1 Carbine, right?

Ed Ames
May 28, 2013, 11:34 AM
Isn't that the point? Low power/quiet (from a long gun)/cheap (if you stocked up).

kBob
May 28, 2013, 11:54 AM
I had an aquantience that loaded some 150 grain .30-30 style FNHP bullets in carbine cases and he "thought" he got around 1000fps in them. They did seem quieter than GI carbine ammo and did cycle the cation and feed, but I have no idea what load he used. Alberts bullets used to make a swaged lead 150 grain bullet in .30 for rifles(Shutzen Plinker) and had a load for it in .30 carbine that functioned their test guns at I believe about 1100 fps.

I wonder if a Mini-14 might be rebarreled to 7.62 Tok and made to take PPS43 mags.......just for giggles and I know that would be a lot less powerful than a .223, 7.62x39, or 6.8 mm, but just for giggles

Perhaps if Savage makes a .223 with the 110 type barrel nut/ change system that might be a good place to try to make a 7.62 Tok bolt gun up from.

-kBob

exiledtoIA
May 28, 2013, 05:27 PM
kBob did you mean the Remington 788 series?

WardenWolf
May 28, 2013, 05:58 PM
I wonder if a Mini-14 might be rebarreled to 7.62 Tok and made to take PPS43 mags.......just for giggles and I know that would be a lot less powerful than a .223, 7.62x39, or 6.8 mm, but just for giggles
-kBob

It wouldn't cycle the action. The Mini-14 is a gas-operated rifle, not recoil-operated or blowback like all pistol-caliber semis are. There's just too much weight in the action for it to cycle, even with a reduced recoil spring. Now, I've seen 7.62x25 AR uppers, but they're also blowback. You just can't combine a locking bolt with a pistol-caliber cartridge unless you do something weird like the Desert Eagle does.

Clark
May 28, 2013, 07:10 PM
I got all those cans of Polish Tokarev ammo from Century delivered in the mid 1990s.

To use it up, I put an old Rem 30-06 take off barrrel on a 1903 Turkish Mauser.
I cut threads and cut the chamber.
The reamer is 30 Mauser, off the shelf at that time and cheaper than a custom 7.62x25mm reamer, but works the same.
That was easy.

The extractor is a a pain.
It shared an extractor with a Mauser I converted to .223.
Neither have an extractor right now, so the welded up extractor must have broken off.

I went to the range with it in 2-20-2006
1) 30 Mauser rifle with M8-4x Leupold scope, S&B ammo and then Polish
surplus ammo.
a) S&B ammo 1.3" 5 shot group at 50 yards, 2.33" 5 shot group at 100
yards [could barely see the target with 4x scope]
b) Polish 1955 surplus ammo 4.8" 19 shot group at 50 yards

What does it all mean?
To do it over, I would thread a 30 cal barrel for a Savage 110 223 and chamber it and there would already be a bolt face and extractor that fits.
I have the stuff, I could do that in a few hours.

Carl N. Brown
May 28, 2013, 08:05 PM
There should be some gain in velocity. Not as spectacular as some .357 revolver ammo in carbine length barrels, but enough.

W.H.B. Smith, "Small Arms of the World", Stackpole, 1966.
7.62x25 Russian WWII issue, 1640 fps from 10.6 inch barrel (PPSh 41).
7.62x25 Russian WWII issue, 1378 fps from TT33 Tokarev pistol.
7.62x25 Czech M48 ammo, 1800 fps from 11.2 inch barrel (M24 and M26).
7.62x25 Czech M48 ammo, 1600 fps from CZ52 pistol.

mr.trooper
May 28, 2013, 08:27 PM
Regardless of what you chamber it in, you still need AMMO.

My new CZ52 has set unfired for 4 months now, because i cant find even a single cartridge for sale.

coalbed
May 30, 2013, 02:34 AM
Hey 303 where did you get those? Do they make one to go from .30-'06 to 7.62x39? If they do I want one. I'd rather have the removable type but I couldn't find any when I bought the glue ins. * And kBob I am fairly sure I seen data for that in LEE's Modern reloading manual. I don't have it anymore or I would look and see.

coalbed
May 30, 2013, 03:16 AM
kBob, I did a little checking and I must have been mistaken on the 150grn. I'm pretty sure it must have been data on the 130 lead RN. I should have remembered the .30M1 has a 1-20" twist (Marlin/Ruger) and a 1-16" (U.S. Gov) it wouldn't stabilize a bullet as large as 150grn.

303tom
May 30, 2013, 11:05 AM
Hey 303 where did you get those? Do they make one to go from .30-'06 to 7.62x39? If they do I want one. I'd rather have the removable type but I couldn't find any when I bought the glue ins. * And kBob I am fairly sure I seen data for that in LEE's Modern reloading manual. I don't have it anymore or I would look and see.
http://www.mcace.com/adapters.htm

coalbed
May 30, 2013, 03:58 PM
Yea that's where I bought mine, all they have for the caliber I want is a glue in. Thanks though. Well I might get a non-glue in 7.62x25 for my Mosin Nagant.

If you enjoyed reading about "7.62x25 bolt rifle?" here in TheHighRoad.org archive, you'll LOVE our community. Come join TheHighRoad.org today for the full version!