[John Galt]

I currently don't yet own a centerfire rifle. I'll eventually own about three.
A friend is buying me one as a thank-you present!!!

I picked out a Rem 700 VSSF.
I was wanting a .223 because of ammo cost, lower recoil, less barrel wear.
He is suggesting .22-250 for it's flatter shooting and it appeals to me as well for versatility in shooting a little heavier bullet at coyotes.

* Some informal paper punching. Ground Squirrels. Occational pDog trips. Rare coyote trips.
* I'll hand load after saving up enough brass.

Thanks for any suggestions you have on rifle & cartridge.


*My two existing rifles are custom 10/22's

[Mal H]

I may be biased, ok, I am biased - the 22-250 is one of the great cartridges in its job category. Sort of like the 30-06 in its category. While the .223 will do pretty much everything you want to do, the 22-250 is more fun in my book. You can load it up and down to just about any velocity you want and you can use almost any bullet you want up to a point. At the high end that the 22-250 is capable of, some bullets (TNT for example) will not make it to the target in one piece. Also the 22-250 usually has a higher twist rate (that is, longer like around 1 in 14") than a .223 so the very heavy weight bullets in the .224 class may not be stabilized enough. I have used up to 65 gr bullets with no problems at all.

You can ignore recoil, it doesn't amount to much for either caliber. Both will be good small game calibers, with the 22-250 taking the lead in longer distance shooting. As soon as you threw in the pdogs, the scale tilted heavily in favor of the 22-250.

[sasnofear]

.223 is fine for what you've described, flatter tragetory means nothing as all buttlets drops anyway and you just learn their ballistic curve. .22-250 is more for vermin & deer so since you haven't metioned shooting deer with it then .223 is defiantly the best buy.

.223 will dispatch coyotes no probs.

best of luck

Adam

[larryw]

Both are very nice first rifles. If you reload, the 22-250 may be the way to go. If you don't, IMO the 223 is the only logical choice.

As both chamberings of the rifle you selected have a 14" twist, you'll be limited to the shorter (lighter) bullets: anything over 55gr probably won't stabilize (even 55gr is borderline), thus negating much of the benefits of the 22-250.

Go with the 223. ;)

[Mal H]

even 55gr is borderline Nah, not at all. I've been shooting 55 gr bullets in a 22-250 for about 35 years with zero stabilization problems at all velocities the cartridge can deliver (as long as its not a bullet designed to explode like the TNT as I mentioned).

[Sleeping Dog]

I think the Rem 700 .223 has a slow-twist barrel, too. 55 gr bullets would be about the heaviest, maybe up to 62 gr. There's good varmint bullets in the 40 gr to 50 gr range, but for long shots the 75 grain bullets start to work better. But the heavy (long) bullets usually require a 1:8" twist barrel.

I like Rock River Arms varmint guns for .223 w/1:8 barrel. For a Rem700PSS, I think I'd wait and get one in .308.

If you go with the 22-250, get a reloading setup. (maybe get one for .223 or .308, though the payoff won't be as quick).

Regards.

[John Galt]

Because of ammo choices & cost, I've about decided on the .223. In .223, it comes with a 1:12 twist. I checked at several suppliers, and even though Win & Rem are making discount hollowpoints in bulk pack, the suppliers aren't carrying them in 22-250.

It seems that for long range & coyote, etc, people are stretching the capabilities of either round. So, I'll plan to get the .223 and then my next rifle will be the next class up. For example, the new 243 WSSM. That one will do both 55grn and 90grn. It matches .22-250 in the 55grn.

I think, ouch :( , that people are getting by with a little heavier bullet in the .22-250 because of the higher velocity. There is probably some formula like twist rate X velocity gives xxx rpm that will stabilize xxx bullet.

I'm going to save all my brass and then start hand loading once I get enough to bother. I now go reload 45acp at a friend's house, but will do the rifle cartridges on a slow single stage press that benchrest guys use.
- I'm a wannabe BR guy, in spirit. Just don't have the guns, time or money right now.

[RTownsend]

Hi John

Since you decided on the .223 check out the Remington LTR. Although I am sure you will be pleased with the VSSF, I would prefer the LTR because of the faster twist. With it you will be target ready out to at least 600 yards with the 75 Gn. AMAX.

here is a link (http://www.remingtonle.com/rifle/700p.htm)

[Art Eatman]

If you're not a handloader, the .223 will allow more shooting for less money. A handloader can always load the .22-250 down a bit for long barrel life. I have both, which seems the best of both worlds. Of course, I also have a Swift, so I mumble a lot before figuring out with which to "grab and go". :)

Not suggesting getting a Ruger instead of the Remington, but my 77 Mk II gives me 1/2" 3-shot groups at 100 yards, from a sporter-weight barrel. Makes for a great walking-hunting varmint rifle.

Art

[BIGR]

If you are going to handload I would go with the 22-250 if I were you. The 22-250 is hard to beat on varmits. Good luck on your decision.

[cratz2]

If you don't reload and budget is at all a concern, I'd go with the 223. As others have said ad infinitum, the low priced surplus ammo allows much cheaper practice through when shooting varmint ammo, there isn't a big difference in price. I'd have to also say that with factory loaded 223 ammo, there is a bigger weight range in bullets that more than offsets the 22-250s velocity advantage. Black Hills alone offers 52, 55, 60, 68, 69, 75 and 77 gr loadings. These heavier loadings, in the appropriate twist rates, allow for going way way out there if that is a desire at all.

Just something to keep in mind. The 700 Police and Winchester Coyote and Stealth models as well as all the Savages have a 1 in 9 twist.

[larryw]

John.

The formula you correctly assumed is called the Greenhill Formula. There's a pretty good article describing it here (http://www.loadammo.com/Topics/July01.htm).

[EJ]

One point that hasn't been mentioned is blast--
The 22-250 is LOUD
The 223 (generally) is not--

I know I'll get yelled at here (Hear);) , but I don't like to hunt or walk around outside with ear protection if I don't have to--
I was a Dept Range officer in the 70's and 80's so my hearing is half shot already-- :rolleyes: (What ear guards??)

You can get away with moderate shooting with the 223 with no ear muffs-- not so with the 22-250

[Kahr carrier]

Rem-223:)

[Brian Williams]

I vote 223 and agree 22-250 IS LOUD.
.223 is cheaper and will reach out to 500 meters for what you are wanting.
I had a win coyote that I sold cause it was loud for eastern semi urban ground hog. I am looking for a 22 hornet or 218 bee, maybe a 221 fireball.

[Steve Smith]

I'm starting to like this .223. Its easy on barrels, for sure.


One thing that I'm learning is this...I was shooting at 600 last weekend and stayed in the 13" 10 ring for 13 out of 15 shots, hitting the spotter several times and 5 times in a row at the end. Now, you may tell me that the .223 isn't that powerful at 600 yards, and it isn't, but I wouldn't replace the spotter disk with my head...would you? :what:

[sasnofear]

haha, well put steve