[notbubba]

1) What did he do to get his medals?

2) He is saying that he is pro 2A, (I really doubt that) does anyone know his voting record?

[jdkelly]

My understanding is that Kerry has a Silver Star, two Bronze Stars, and three Purple Hearts. Which is an average of a metal a month.

I think he beached his boat, assualted some (a) VC on the bank and dispatched a wounded VC that was holding an RPG.

I'd heard that he didn't spend any time in the hospital for any of his three wounds, but he doesn't talk about them.

I'd be very intersested in hearing any information about his time in Vietnam, as well as any corrections to what I've stated.

Edited TO Include: NO HE IS NOT PRO 2ND AMENDMENT

Respectfully,

jdkelly

[RobW]

2) He's FOR it and he is AGAINST it, as good as he is FOR anything and AGAINST anything.

Too bad we have only the choice between bad and worse instead of good and better.

[Langenator]

My understanding is that when Janus F-Bomb Kerry beached his boat, he did so against standing orders not to do so. Putting the boat on the beach put the boat and crew in serious and unnecessary jeopardy. So of course, he got a medal for it.

[Rickstir]

Two of his purple hearts are band-aid medals. Small splinters and such. And he wrote to command when he got his thrid and asked to be removed from combat. Don't forget when the draft board first came a calling he asked for a year's extension to study in that basteon of masculinity, France. He was turned down and so he joined the Navy.

He is quoted last week as saying he was a hunter but didn't need an AK-47. So he is in the talk the talk buy don't walk the walk group. I am a hunter and I need an AK-47. It arrived last week.:D

[foghornl]

On question 2, he left the campaign trail to vote FOR a New/Extended AWB.....

SO he is a Feinstein/Schumer/Kilnton class gun-grabber

[Nathanael_Greene]

Though there is no question that he received three Purple Hearts, I read somewhere that he missed a total of two days' duty due to his wounds.

Being from Massachusetts, and being to the left of Teddy The-Only-Shots-I-Need-Come-From-A-Bottle Kennedy, his support of the Second Amendment is about the same as his support for the military.

[Joe Demko]

1) His actions in Vietnam apparently met the standards in place at the time for him to receive the Silver Star, a Bronze Star, and several Purple Hearts. Bear in mind that medals and who gets them are not always what you would call a consistent or logical process.

2) No, John Kerry cannot be construed as being pro-2A in any meaningful way.

My lack of support and enthusiasm for the Kerry campaign should in no way be interpreted as an endorsement of George W. Bush.

[Bartholomew Roberts]

In his five months of service in Vietnam, Kerry received a Silver Star, Bronze Star, and three Purple Hearts in addition to several unit citations and the National Defense medal. At the time, the Navy policy was to remove people with three Purple Hearts from combat. I believe Kerry submitted himself for four of the individual medals listed above.

Unlike many other issues, Kerry has never tried to vote both ways on guns - he has been consistently anti-gun:

1991 (http://www.vote-smart.org/voting_category_subject.php?can_id=S0421103&category_name=Gun%20Issues&year=1991): S.1241 - Five day waiting period for handguns - Kerry voted YES

1993 (http://www.vote-smart.org/voting_category_subject.php?can_id=S0421103&category_name=Gun%20Issues&year=1993):
S.1607 - Motion to kill amendment banning semi-auto weapons. Kerry voted NO
S.1607 - Motion to amend Ominbus Crime Bill with amendment banning semi-auto weapons. Kerry voted YES
S.414 - Remove NICS from Brady Bill and make five-day waiting period permanent with no sunset. Kerry voted YES
HR 1025 - Brady Bill. Kerry voted YES.

1996 (http://www.vote-smart.org/voting_category_subject.php?can_id=S0421103&category_name=Gun%20Issues&year=1996):
HR 3756 - Vote to kill amendment creating Gun Free School Zones Act. Kerry voted NO.

1998 (http://www.vote-smart.org/voting_category_subject.php?can_id=S0421103&category_name=Gun%20Issues&year=1998):
S.2260 - bill to prohibit charging gunowners a fee for NICS background checks and require destruction of any information used during a background check if that person is allowed to purchase a firearm. Kerry voted NO
S.2260 - Vote to kill amendment requiring gun locks. Kerry voted NO.
S.2312 - Vote to kill an amendment banning importation of pre-1994 normal magazines. Kerry voted NO.

1999 (http://www.vote-smart.org/voting_category_subject.php?can_id=S0421103&category_name=Gun%20Issues&year=1999):
Nine different votes on gun control in the post-Columbine craze - all anti-gun. Check link for details.

2000 (http://www.vote-smart.org/voting_category_subject.php?can_id=S0421103&category_name=Gun%20Issues&year=2000):
S.625 - Vote on an amendment to bar gun manufacturers from being released from their debts that were brought about by lawsuits charging fraud, negligence, recklessness or product liability. Kerry voted YES.

2004 - John Kerry had missed 128 separate votes in order to avoid irritating some small constituency during his primary campaign; but returns to the the Senate ON SUPER TUESDAY - the biggest day of the primaries, to make the following votes:

Extend semi-auto ban ten more years. Kerry voted YES (http://www.senate.gov/legislative/LIS/roll_call_lists/roll_call_vote_cfm.cfm?congress=108&session=2&vote=00024)

Require criminal background checks on private sales at gun shows. Kerry voted YES (http://www.senate.gov/legislative/LIS/roll_call_lists/roll_call_vote_cfm.cfm?congress=108&session=2&vote=00025)

To expand the definition of armor-piercing ammunition to include virtually all centerfire rifle ammo, with .30-30ammo being mentioned specifically by the bill's author as "It is outrageous and unconscionable that such ammunition continues to be sold in the United States of America." Kerry voted YES (http://www.senate.gov/legislative/LIS/roll_call_lists/roll_call_vote_cfm.cfm?congress=108&session=2&vote=00028)

[bountyhunter]

Don't forget when the draft board first came a calling he asked for a year's extension to study in that basteon of masculinity, France. He was turned down and so he joined the Navy. So , basically then, the position of the republican party is that Kerry's war record can be shamed because he only served after he was refused an extension for school? And he only won a silver star, bronze star and several unit citations? Well no wonder they want to call him a coward....... If only he had a wealthy and influential father he could have gotten one of those really dangerous missions like drinking beer in Alabama for two years.

"Two of his purple hearts are band-aid medals."

Well now that I have learned that two of the three purple hearts he was awarded were for small wounds, I say we shoot him. That guy only had one serious combat wound, a half dozen medals, and he is claiming to have "served in combat"? The nerve of the guy.

"And he wrote to command when he got his third (purple heart) and asked to be removed from combat."

What a wussie.

[Langenator]

Bountyhunter, are you privy to some special knowledge that Rickster is an employee of the RNC that the rest of us don't know about?

Or did you even stop to consider that Rickster might be a private citizen with his own opinion? That just because someone thinks Senator Kerry is a two faced weasel, it doesn't mean they're part of the right-wing GOP attack machine?

Langenator-proud soldier in the Alien Armies of the Right

[bountyhunter]

Or did you even stop to consider that Rickster might be a private citizen with his own opinion? That just because someone thinks Senator Kerry is a two faced weasel, it doesn't mean they're part of the right-wing GOP attack machine?

Here is all I know: a guy who served in combat and was decorated is getting smeared by a guy (or his employees) who never spent a nanosecond near the wrong end of a gun. At this point I have heard it all:

The GOP'ers gave him the name "Hanoi John"

He must have been a lousy soldier if he got wounded so many times.

He tried to go to school in France.

He was a traitor for sitting near Jane Fonda at a peace rally.

He was a liar for saying he saw soldiers in combat committing war crimes.

At this point, I don't give a crap what anybody thinks about Kerry. I've got a phone book full of people I'd rather see become president, but Bush ain't in it. But the point is, the slandering of a veteran by a poser who drank beer for the whole war makes me sick.

[greyhound]

So , basically then, the position of the republican party is that Kerry's war record can be shamed because he only served after he was refused an extension for school?

Prediction: Republicans won't touch that with a ten foot pole. (Nor do they need to, based on Kerry's voting record!)

[jdkelly]

Kerry is a strange sort of fellow for Massachusetts politics.

From the liberals and union people I know, or have heard, he is considered a "suit". The meaning is a hollow personality, with nice clothes. He has been in Teddies shadow for his entire career and is not considered to have done much. As expected, he has voted a liberal line.

While he never said that he was of Irish descent he let the voting public believe it, until he was "outted" in the last year so. That is important in Boston/Massachusetts politics. It's a small personality indicator that I mention just for color.

To me he seems to a cross between Clinton and Gore. He's a taller thinner Gore, a little smoother with not as much stiffness. He speaks well but lacks the charisma and sex appeal that Clinton used so well.

He also has a unique twist on the Clinton style "focus groups". Rather then determine his opinion by "focus group", Kerry seems to vote the line of least political danger and then attacks it, there by putting himself on both sides of the argument, a lot.

An example of Kerry's both sides of the issue is his continued attack on GWB about ducking Vietnam in the NG, while having missed that attribute for eight years in Clinton.


Respectfully,

jdkelly

[w4rma]

Prediction: Republicans won't touch that with a ten foot pole.Their paid surrogates are doing it instead: Rush Limbaugh, Bill O'Reilly, Sean Hannity, The Beltway Boys, Brit Hume and Tony Snow, G. Gordon Liddy, Sam and Cokie, Bob Scheiffer, Chris Mathews, Ollie North, Robert Novak, Wolf Blitzer, Bill Schneider, Candy Crowley, Ann Coulter, Laura Ingraham, Peggy Noonan, Andrew Sullivan, William Safire, etc.

[Detachment Charlie]

Regarding Mr. Kerry's three Purple Hearts --
Like Doubting Thomas, I want to put my fingers in the wounds.

Yes, I was in RVN -- two tours, US Navy. Saw combat on PCFs and PBRs. Yes, I was "blooded" in combat, but it was because I got "dinged." There is a BIG difference between getting dinged and wounded. You deserve a Purple Heart for getting wounded. For getting dinged, all I got was a bandage from the corpsman and advised to stay out of the way of VC bullets and shrapnel.

Mr. Kerry, I want to put my fingers in the wounds...then I'll believe.:fire:

[geegee]

Sorry-I must have doubled clutched it. :o geegee

[geegee]

These are "Republican paid surrogates"?

Beltway Boys Morton Kondracke, an avowed liberal.

Sam Donaldson & Cokie Roberts. The Sam & Cokie? Are you new to political talk shows or something? :rolleyes: :D

Bob Schieffer. Sam & Cokie can only dream of being as liberal as Schieffer.

Chris Matthews-former Washington Bureau Chief for The San Francisco Examiner, and former staffer for deceased Democratic Speaker of the House Tip O'Neill

Bill Schneider. I could be wrong here, but I believe he used to head up the California Democratic Party

Barbra Olson. I guess current events aren't your thing, are they? She was killed on 9-11 in the plane that went down over Pennsylvania.

If you think those folks are Republicans, I'm guessing your only source of news is The Daily Worker. The remainder are (in my estimation) conservatives. Sounds 'fair and balanced" to me, if I can borrow a phrase. :scrutiny: geegee

[Langenator]

I guess that means that Dan Rather, Peter Jennings, Tom Brokaw, Larry King, Andy Rooney, Maureen Dowd, Paul Krugman, Molly Ivins, Michael Moore, Alan Colmes, the New York Times, Katie Couric, Sidney Blumenthal, Walter Cronkite, Ellen Goodman, Anna Quindlan, Helen Thomas, the LA Times, the Seattle P-I, NBC, ABC, CBS, the Washington Post, et al are paid mouthpieces for the Democrats then?

Yes, Rush, Hannity, et al do get paid. They get paid by the companies that syndicate their shows/blogs/columns, who get paid by the companies that advertise on their shows/blogs/publications. Free market, you know?

And one thing I've never heard criticized in Kerry's war service. Aside from his constant use of it as a sheild from any sort of criticism of his voting record on national security. Somehow, 4 months in Vietnam should insulate him from 20 years of voting for lower funding for the military and intelligence.

[Sean Smith]

2) He is saying that he is pro 2A, (I really doubt that) does anyone know his voting record?

That's an easy one to answer: literally 100% anti-2nd Amendment.

http://www.bradycampaign.org/facts/scorecard/scorecard.php?inds=42

[Shooter 2.5]

Kerry's voting record is farther to the left than Teddy, the swimmer. Any gunowner who would even consider voting for any dem is asking to lose their Rights as a citizen.

[BeLikeTrey]

Langenator! Thank you for putting nicely what I was gonna put in such a way as to get myself kicked off of this board. I am so tired of the whining librerals throwing punches and when somebody finally throws one back... (I.E. Bush's service and the new attacks on Kerry's voting record of shame.)
Waaaaaaaa! Waaaaa! Mommy he hit me back! Is about the equivalent of Kerry's rhetoric.
Those of you voting for Kerry, no offense, but you must not care about the military at all. Check Kerry's voting record for yourself. Heck those of you voting democrat at all, need I remind you of disenfranchised military votes from the last election?
DISCLAIMER:sorry- nothing boils me like a liberal who gives hearsay to congress and betrays his comrades(talking about crimes he never saw), throws medals and is ashamed of his service... Now uses his service like he won the immunity challenge idol and he can't be voted off the island. We'd be better off voting a magic 8-ball into the presidency, because this guy flip-flops more than a fish on the beach.
my .02$

[RED-DOG 40]

BeLikeTrey , You saved me alot of typing ,you expressed my sentiments to the T! :D

[Bartholomew Roberts]

He was a liar for saying he saw soldiers in combat committing war crimes.

Well, either he saw soldiers committing war crimes and did nothing about it as an officer of the United States Navy or he lied about it. Personally, I think saying that he lied about it is a lot less damning than the alternative.

[Firethorn]

saw soldiers committing war crimes and did nothing about it as an officer of the United States Navy

Which is in and of itself a serious offense. If you're in the service and witness a war crime, or even what you think might be a war crime, you're obligated to report it at first opportunity. Officers, are of course, held to an even higher standard. It would have been his obligation to ARREST any soldier he caught commiting a war crime.

:cuss: :banghead:

Either he's lying, or he's a unprosecuted felon. I also heard that he wrote his own medal packages. Only half were accepted.

:fire:

[geegee]

I also heard that he wrote his own medal packages. Only half were accepted.
No military service here, so are you saying an officer can submit himself for a medal? geegee

[Obiwan]

Kerry used the system to get out....then trashed the military.

I suspect that the medals were all part of his plan A to run for office as a war hero...but I admittedly have little knowledge of the details.


After returning...and finding that war heroes weren't playing well...

He became a war protestor...

Say what you will...he is adaptable

As far as double standards go...I heard plenty of liberals bashing Bush for getting out of service to work on someone elses campaign....

But silence as far as Kerry getting out of the military early to run for office HIMSELF.

[madmike]

Alright, let's stick to facts:

Bush enlisted in the Guard, went to Basic, filled an admin slot, *volunteered* for pilot training, did 360 days of pilot training, served for 4 years in the Guard, transferred to inactive status to get into politics.

Last year, I only did 8 weekends. I got credit for the year. One of my troops transferred inactive. This happens all the time. I'm a veteran USAF, US Army, active and reserve and am sick and TIRED of taking slams that "that's just the Guard."

You might recall it was the predecessor to the Guard that STARTED the War of Independence.

I've served as a shop chief, so I've seen these types of documents all the time (same ones Bush' detractors post on the web), and there's no question about them at all. None. Nothing. He served, he got out. Meantime, he REALLY DID learn how to fly a high-performance airplane for dangerous recon missions. No doubt due to daddy's influence. That OBVIOUSLY made it easier for him to learn to fly.:rolleyes:

80% of the military in the 1960s never saw Vietnam. There was also this little-known thing called the "Cold War" going on, and a substantial number of plans were made involving a little place called the "USSR." This caused a lot of troops to be in Germany, for some reason. You may wish to look it up on the web.

Kerry volunteered for boat duty. Flesh wounds were the order of the day in aluminum hulled boats under fire. His actions regarding the rocket attack are misquoted all over the net. Basically, he did something brave, stupid and necessary, for which they had to either court martial him or decorate him. He DID save lives, so they decorated him. It often happens in combat that there's no right answer, only the answer that keeps you alive.

Both men are veterans, both are entitled to respect for serving. They're also both politicians, so they deserve to be castigated appropriately for that.;)

But I don't want to hear any more slams on a brownwater vet, or against anyone who was "just in the Guard." #$&* you.

I've done 19 years, and have never been in combat. I spent 3 weeks in Kuwait during Desert Fox, and got combat pay, but never came under fire. I missed Libya, Panama, Iraq, Bosnia, Somalia, Haiti, Iraq, Haiti and a dozen little issues. Does that make me a "coward" or "Someone who drank beer while others did the fighting"? Again, #@$^$ you. The Pentagon tells you where to go, and you go.

I've been told by a rather famous vet who served in intel for the 11th ACR in 'nam that he won't hold anything from there against someone. If he could have left 8 months early, he would have. Not having been there, I can't say for sure, but I'm pretty sure with the politics of the time and place I wouldn't be volunteering to stick around.

Yes, you can submit yourself for medals. Anyone can submit anyone for a medal. They must be reviewed by a board for validity. It's a tad easier for officers in the area to get medals awarded. Deal with it. They still have to meet criteria from higher up.

Kerry here: and if you search for his name, they've got the good AND the bad about him.
http://www.snopes.com/politics/kerry/service.asp

I've got an entire article I wrote about Bush if anyone's interested. I don't mind posting it.

They're both anti-gun and elitist to different degrees. But they're both vets. Deal with it.

[Joe Demko]

Excellent post, madmike.

[Iain]

Madmike -

Thanks for expressing what I have been trying to find a way to say every time the issue of the candidates service records comes up. Brilliantly put.