762x25 Tok


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Lj1941
May 12, 2013, 09:57 PM
Does anyone have any experience hand-loading the 762x25 Communist bloc caliber.The only data I have is what came with my Lee dies.It is only data for AA powder. I have tried some of the loads for AA#9 with some success.I am looking for data for some of the more common powders like #231,Titegroup,Bullseye, Power Pistol,Red Dot and so on.I have used a small amount of Speer Plinkers and they seem promising.Any help will be welcomed as I have 500 Starline brass and lots of time. The data I have found online has a lot of #296 & H110 data and I don't want to go down that road.:)

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Clark
May 13, 2013, 01:20 AM
I have experimented with CZ52s, Tokarevs, and a Turkish Mauser I converted to 7.62x25mm with a Remington 30-06 take off barrel and cut down breech.
I have put a Parker Hale sniper bull barrel 308 on a Tokarev, making a very long barrel scoped handgun.
I bought 10 more CZ52 barrels and combined them with my other CZ52 barrels and in 2005 had the RC hardness tested with results were that hardness varied from RC25 to RC47. That would correspond in almost a 2:1 range in strength.

I have experimented with 85 gr, 86 gr, and 110 gr jacketed bullets.
I have experimented with H110, AA#9, Ramshot [same results as AA#9], LIL'GUN, N105, XMP5744, LONGSHOT, AA#5, and Power Pistol.
I have experimented with S&B brass and with Starline brass.
I have played with factory ammo Czech surplus, Polish surplus, and New factory S&B.

I have blown up CZ52s.
I have exchanged correspondence with load book publishers and a gun magazine author about errors in their writings on this topic.

What have I learned?
1) The Tokarev is best and strongest [never mind what 10 year old load books say]
2) Power Pistol is the best.
3) 110 gr jacketed is the best.
4) S&B is the best.

5) Those who write books or a magazine say the same thing when I point out it differs from my calculations and tests "We were just writing what we had read somewhere else."

6) I would not use and any AA load data circa 2000 in a CZ52.

Lj1941
May 13, 2013, 09:58 AM
What range of PP did you use with 110 grain bullets? My weapon is a M-57 Zastava.:)

KansasSasquatch
May 13, 2013, 10:44 AM
This isn't quite what you wanted but Vihta Vouri has data for there powders. Its just more options. http://www.lapua.com/en/products/reloading/vihtavuori-reloading-data/relodata/6/37

Lj1941
May 13, 2013, 10:57 AM
Thank you but VV is unobtainable here in my part of PA.:)

zxcvbob
May 13, 2013, 11:03 AM
1) The Tokarev is best and strongest [never mind what 10 year old load books say]
2) Power Pistol is the best.
3) 110 gr jacketed is the best.
4) S&B is the best.

Power Pistol and S&B is what I would expect. The 110 grain bullet is not, but it's good to know it works well with heavier bullets.

One of these days I'll run low on milsurp 7.62x25 ammo and I'll start reloading this cartridge. And will probably start with 100 grain cast .30 Carbine bullets and AA#7. (unfortunately I'll have to buy brass because the ammo I have is over 50 years old and almost all the necks crack when fired)

Hondo 60
May 13, 2013, 03:31 PM
I've been reloading for my Tokarev for about 2 years.
I still have to be careful as sometimes it fails the "plunk" test.
(factory ammo always works)

My favorite load is 8.0 gr of Accurate #5 with Berry's 110 gr.
But I see they no longer list it on their site.

You didn't mention what bullet you're using.
Lyman's 49th has data for 75 & 85 gr lead.

75 gr - 4.3-5.3 gr of Tite Group (OAL 1.280)
85 gr - 4.0-5.0 gr of Tite Group (OAL 1.290)

Lj1941
May 13, 2013, 04:04 PM
I really haven't settled on what bullet I will use. I have tried some 90 Grain XTP's but they really don't like to feed in my weapon. I also tried some 100 Grain Speer Plinkers left over from my early days of handloading some plinking rounds in 06. The Plinkers feed nicely and most likely will be what I use. Berrys would be nice too but they are backed up so far that it would be about a year before I could expect to get any. I have some Berrys made for the 762x39 in 110 but they are too pointed and I know would not work.I guess the round nose bullets made for the 30 Carbine would be the Berrys to use IF they were obtainable.:banghead: I will end up using Plinkers if my local supply store has them or can get them. I am looking for a starting point for the powders I listed and will go from there.:)

Lj1941
May 15, 2013, 04:18 PM
I tested this AM 2 different loads in my attempt to find a workable hand load for my Zastava M-57. I tried a clip (9rds each) of different bullets.The 1st load was 10.9 grains of AA#9/100 gr Speer RN plinker. The 2nd load was 11 gr #9 behind a Hornady 90 gr XTP HP. Neither load was world breaking in accuracy. That was the last of the Plinkers so I am left with about 85 or so XTP'S.The 100 gr Plinkers seemed a little more potent than a factory PP 85 ball round and the XTP's seemed about equal to factory.More testing to follow.:banghead:

Old Scratch
May 20, 2013, 07:07 PM
He has done a great amount of research and writing on the subject.

The Tokarev is a very strong pistol, and AA9 works well.

I have developed a real liking for the 85 gr and VV, but I am cognizant that VV is expensive and can be hard to come by.

At some point I will also try the 110 gr.

armarsh
May 20, 2013, 11:13 PM
I tested this AM 2 different loads in my attempt to find a workable hand load for my Zastava M-57. I tried a clip (9rds each) of different bullets.The 1st load was 10.9 grains of AA#9/100 gr Speer RN plinker. The 2nd load was 11 gr #9 behind a Hornady 90 gr XTP HP. Neither load was world breaking in accuracy. That was the last of the Plinkers so I am left with about 85 or so XTP'S.The 100 gr Plinkers seemed a little more potent than a factory PP 85 ball round and the XTP's seemed about equal to factory.More testing to follow.:banghead:

Once things get back to normal try a 110 grain Berrys .310 with 9.2 grains of AA#9.

Brin
May 21, 2013, 08:24 PM
I have been using 5.2 gr of power pistol powder and Bear creek supply, 32 cal, 100gr moly coated, lead bullets in my m-57.

Julian537
July 15, 2013, 09:29 PM
Does anyone have experience with Kinematics Research plant 7.62 ammo? It is made with starline brass. I do not know what powder they put in it, but it has 6.1 grains in it. says 1750 FPS on the box.
I bought 4 boxes of it cheap at a gun show. $9 a box. I am having issue with them in my CZ-52. The first CZ-52 I had was blown apart with the first round I put in it. It split the bottom of the barrel. I since then, have purchased a brand new CZ-52. It will fire the KR ammo, but the primers keep popping out. I figured this was due to over pressure. I pulled the bullets and put 5.5 grains of the same powder, in the brass and reassembled them. Even at 5.5 grains, the primers are still being pushed out. I can take a new primer and push it into the case with my thumb. Is there a way to tighten up the primer pockets? Is this a known issue, with the starline brass in 7.62x25?
Any help is appreciated.

Reloadron
July 15, 2013, 11:35 PM
Been years but during my CZ52 phase I loaded thousands of them using Starline brass. Never had a problem with Starline. Still had a bunch of the brass and a few months ago sent at least 300 new Starline brass to a fellow member and as far as I know they didn't have any problems or issues. The primers seated just fine and tight. Using a caliper for want of a pin gauge set I get about 0.172" diameter of the primer pockets on what I have. Can you measure the pockets and what primers are you using?

I also suggest you heed what Clark has to say on the subject as he has been there and done that with this and many, many calibers.

Ron

Lj1941
July 16, 2013, 08:15 AM
Useing cheap reloaded ammo you know nothing about is playing "Russian Roulete" ( pun intended)!I have always had good luck with Starline brass in the 7.62x25 and in all other calibers I have loaded.Some of them are 44 Mag, 38 Special and 9 MM Makarov.Even in the 7.62x25s with flattened primers, the pockets remained tight.
:banghead:

NCsmitty
July 16, 2013, 06:57 PM
I had a CZ-52 a few years ago, and eventually sold it, but loaded for it, and the only load that I tried was S&B brass with CCI primers, the 100gr Speer Plinker pushed by 7gr of Unique powder, and was not chronographed. It was a good accurate load in my pistol but as always, YMMV.
As mentioned, the Tokarev appears to be a much stronger design than the CZ-52, although I never had any issues with mine.


NCsmitty

Julian537
July 18, 2013, 11:15 AM
Ron,

My primer pocket on two of the loads measured 0.177 with a set of calipers. I am using Winchester small pistol primers. I am under the assumption, that the primers in this brass are already loose, before I fired them. I am going to take some more of them apart, and check the primers, before they are fired.

MI2600
July 18, 2013, 11:33 AM
I've used 5gr of Unique with a Hornady 86gr SP bullet. Got this load on-line.

Reloadron
July 18, 2013, 12:00 PM
Ron,

My primer pocket on two of the loads measured 0.177 with a set of calipers. I am using Winchester small pistol primers. I am under the assumption, that the primers in this brass are already loose, before I fired them. I am going to take some more of them apart, and check the primers, before they are fired.
Typical small pistol or for that matter small rifle primer diameter should be about .175". This runs with the cartridge primer pockets I measured being about .172". The .177" you are seeing is a little large for the pocket diameter.

Ron

Hondo 60
July 18, 2013, 03:03 PM
Lj1941, sounds like you blew out the primer pocket with grossly overloaded ammo.
If I were you, I'd just chuck 'em & chalk it up to experience.

I most certainly would NOT fire any more of them.

Also, if memory serves me correct, the CZ brand tokarev's are not as strong as the Zastava, the Russian made & Chinese made tokarevs.
(Don't quote me on that, I may be wrong)

I'd just get some new brass, & reload my own.

By the way, Starline brass is very highly thought of on this forum.
So your ammo is (again) just grossly overloaded.

zxcvbob
July 18, 2013, 04:23 PM
You can swage the pockets tighter using the back of a 5/16" (?) drill bill for an anvil and a ball bearing for a punch. Overdo it a little, then swage or ream them back to the right size using your favorite primer pocket tool.

Lj1941
July 30, 2013, 05:59 PM
It has taken me a while-but it appears I finally have some workable loads that function good in my M 57 Zastavia. I have developed two different loads using the 90 grain XTP. I tried Blue Dot and Power Pistol.I worked up to 7.2 grains of Blue Dot and 6.5 of Power Pistol. Both of these loads were a bit snappy. I settled on 7 grains of Blue Dot & 6.4 grains of Power Pistol. I loaded 50 of the Power Pistol loads and only a few of the Blue Dot.I will have to do some in depth shooting and see how accurate they are.I will load and test some more Blue Dot loads as soon as I tap into a new can of Blue Dot. I am not looking for high powered loads just accurate loads that function the pistol.I really need to chronograph these loads.

Hondo 60
July 30, 2013, 08:47 PM
Something else to think about...
I got some #1 Carbine from Missouri Bullet Co.
http://www.missouribullet.com/details.php?prodId=106&category=6&secondary=&keywords=

They were GREAT!
My Zastava M57 was unfired, so the barrel slugged at .308".
These bullets are .3095"

Very accurate, & no leading.

Lj1941
July 30, 2013, 09:16 PM
I was considering going the cast route too.I have to build a cash reserve large enough to fill out the weight for the $14.00 flat rate fee. I am interested in what powder you used & what charge weight. That order will have to wait a while. My fixed income is at a low rate.:fire:

vavasour
September 14, 2013, 09:47 PM
I have loaded 78 gr RN from Tn Valley over 7.7 gr SR4756, which worked well in my Yugo M57. After seeing on this site a load for this bullet of 6.5 gr Unique, I began at 6.0 Unique. My reduced load would not even eject the brass. When I moved the load up to 6.5 gr Unique, as given, everything worked fine. Earlier I had used a 115 gr RNFP over Bullseye (can't find my load).

Twmaster
September 15, 2013, 12:52 AM
When I was actively reloading this round for my CZ52 (I need a slide. Anybody have one to spare?) I used a lot of Red Dot loaded to hot 9MM specs. I mostly used Sierra 86 grain pills and Hornady XTPs.

I have a pile of 110 grain 30 Carbine pills to try once I burn up the pile of surplus ammo I have.

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