Run in with LEO last night, not too happy....


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50 Freak
March 17, 2004, 03:38 PM
Moderators, please keep this post open as this is not a LEO bash but a discussion of a particular incident that happened to me.

Well last night, as I was watching "The Shield" with my wife, we get a call about 10:30 p.m. from my little 5'1 115 pound 18 year old sister. She's freaking out and crying because her car had just run out of gas going Northbound on the 280 (for those of us here in N. Cali, the 280 is a very fast, very dark freeway with nothing but hills on one side and a steep incline overlooking a large reservoir on the other side). Anyways, she was calling from a call box and the dispatcher said that she was dispatching CHP and it would be high priority. So I grab my CCW my trusty Glock 27 (to comply with the Gun Discussion purpose of this board), and surefire and both me and the wife get into the car and drive to where she is. We get there and thank God she is okay, terrified but okay. All of us sit and wait for about 30 minutes for CHP, but all we see is 2 or 3 of them going by (more concerned with pulling over speeders apparently than helping stranded motorist). So I decide to go for gas (as I knew there was a gas station just 6 miles north of us). I leave my surefire and CCW with the wife (in retrospect, I should have taken the girls with me, (but we had thought the gas station was so close and my car was full of crap from just having moved, and the girls didn't know how to drive stick). Anyways, I get the gas, and drive back getting off opposite the freeway where my wife and sis are. I drive over to the other side and start entering the freeway where I remember the car to be. I see the spot where they were stopped, and I see the callbox where my sis called from, but no car, no sis, no wife. I'm starting to freak out. I look back on don't see any cars on the on ramp, no buildings/houses for miles. So I start backing up on the on-ramp looking to see if I passed them. Midway down the ramp, the red light come on and a Sheriff's car pulls up to me (he had been parked at the bottom with his lights off). He comes up and asks for license/reg/insurance. I say to him, "before you start, can you please go with me to find my sis/wife, they should have been parked on the side of the freeway". I'm not contesting the ticket, as I know I broke the law backing up on the onramp. I'm not pissed at that at all. The officer doesn't say anything other than he didn't see any car, and then went back to his cruiser (another cruiser had pulled up in the mean time). I watch through my rear view mirror as they start joking and laughing about my actions. As the officer comes back and has me sign the ticket. I'm pretty angry as we have been there for about 15 minutes now. I say to him "I can't believe that you are more concerned about giving me a ticket than the safety of two females stranded on the freeway". The officer yells at me to "shut up, I can pull you out of this car, search you and drag you of to jail for reckless driving!"

I sign the damn ticket and drive off to look for my sis/wife. Luckily, after I had left, a tow truck had found them and gave them gas, and instructed them to leave the freeway. I'm happy that my sis didn't become a missing person statistic, but am angry at the callousness and the unprofessionalism of the officer. I'm pondering with the idea of filing a complaint for unprofessionalism with the dept.

Question is, am I blowing this all out of proportions? I don't have a lot of run in with LEO's and don't know if this is a-typical of this dept. What do you guys think?

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J Jones
March 17, 2004, 03:44 PM
the girls didn't know how to drive stick

Rectify this.




Contest the ticket and call the supervisor/watch commander/chief deputy/sheriff to complain. The call your sister made should be in a dispatch record somewhere and they can go to court with you. The tow truck driver can make a written statement. Even if you don't win, you can put some negative exposure on the department with a judge and DA.

Preacherman
March 17, 2004, 03:45 PM
I would certainly make a complaint, in writing, to the head of the department. Also, check out whether they have a Complaints Board or something like that, and contact them. Make it clear that you're not trying to get out of anything, but that the unprofessional conduct of these officers placed your family at risk, and you would like to ensure that it doesn't happen to anyone else.

Greg L
March 17, 2004, 03:46 PM
I think that you should have grabbed the gas can that you use to fill your lawn mower & taken it with you when you went to meet your sister. Or swung by a gas station/quickie mart & bought one.

As to the other, I'm still thinking that one through.

Greg

Kodiak AK
March 17, 2004, 03:46 PM
Reporting to a supiror is the right thing to do if you are wronged . Depending on the paticulars it may or may not be circular filed . Contacting the media might get you more response ,it may be good or bad .
The other avenue you have if you choose to pursue it is to contest the ticket in court , and get every thing on file .


JBT's and DGG's. Somewhere in the middle all cops fall .;)

c_yeager
March 17, 2004, 03:51 PM
I would suggest that you advise your significant others that if they are stranded and you go get some help that MAYBE they should try to stay where you left them.

And there is this.

Anyways, she was calling from a call box and the dispatcher said that she was dispatching CHP and it would be high priority.

added to this.

So I start backing up on the on-ramp looking to see if I passed them. Midway down the ramp, the red light come on and a Sheriff's car pulls up to me (he had been parked at the bottom with his lights off).

What makes you think that the SHERIFF'S DEPARTMENT gets dispatched to highway patrol calls?

kbr80
March 17, 2004, 03:51 PM
Question is, am I blowing this all out of proportions?


NO. Just a normal run in with JBT's. All authority, no brains at all.

50 Freak
March 17, 2004, 03:51 PM
I would have sent them in my car, and have me stay with the stranded car, but the girls don't know how to drive stick, and I don't have a lawn, so no lawnmower and no gas tank. Didn't want to go to a station first as we are a little in the boonies, and getting to my sis was first priority.

The girls wanted to stay and wait for me, but the tow truck driver instructed that they leave the side of the freeway, in retrospect, he instructed them correctly, parked on the side of fast moving freeway is no place to be.

The Sheriff wasn't dispatched instead of CHP, his car was just sitting at the bottom of the ramp somewhere in the dark.

larry_minn
March 17, 2004, 03:52 PM
Nothing wrong with writting a short note and sending it in. Or if you have time stop in. I would not include the info on your firearm and who had it when.
Finally I would take the charge from the tow truck (I assume it had time/location) and go to court on the ticket if over what you make for 4 hrs work. (unless you can go to court on day off)

Skunkabilly
March 17, 2004, 03:55 PM
What's a DGG, Do-Good Guy? :confused:

Kodiak AK
March 17, 2004, 04:00 PM
Close Skunk
Darn Good Guy.

spacemanspiff
March 17, 2004, 04:00 PM
1. paragraphs are your friend. embrace them. :D
2. cell phones are also your friend.
3. drivers who run out of gas get no sympathy from me. i'd help out a family member (like you did) but they'd get an earful from me about paying attentiont to the simple gauge that tells them they need to fill up the tank.
4. everyone should know how to drive a stick. what will happen when you get injured and cant drive and your wife cant drive you to a hospital?

about the LEO encounter, maybe he had a really bad day. maybe the last person he pulled over exhausted his professionalism for that day.

you might have been the only 'good guy' he came across in a long time. give him the benefit of the doubt.

DadOfThree
March 17, 2004, 04:08 PM
Did you get a name or badge numbers or names? I would file a complaint with the head office and start the complaint out with, "I'm not contesting the ticket, I deserved it, I'll pay it but ...." Then go on to explain that the officers declined to help look for the missing women.

50 Freak
March 17, 2004, 04:09 PM
Oh, my sis got an earful from the entire family. Kinda felt sorry for her, as it was a tag-team action from the dad, the mom, the sis, and me. But as she is a teen, she already knows everything in the world.:rolleyes: Hopefully this incident scared the be-jesus out of her, and she learns to be more careful.

fslflint
March 17, 2004, 04:24 PM
I agree. write or call and complain. I am 19 and I have a girlfriend and two older sisters. all of whom I have had to help on the side of the road at some point in time. its scary for them and I think that the LEOs should be a lot more concerned with the safety of 2 women rather than giving you a ticket.

Josey
March 17, 2004, 05:46 PM
DSs name and ID # is on the citation. File a documented complaint. Paper trail.

50 Freak
March 17, 2004, 05:48 PM
To tell you the truth, the citation means squat to me, if I'm out a hundred or two, makes no difference to me. What really irks the hell out of me is the fact the officer, after being told the situation and given the environment we live in where abductions and murders happen on a daily basis. Still did not care to make sure his charges (the public) were safe. Seem like he was only worried about issuing the citation. Shows lack of good judgment on his part. Had my sis/wife been abducted or hurt in any way, how would this look in the court of public opinion that rather than see to the safety of two small women stranded on the side of a freeway, the sheriff's department was busy doing a citation. Imagine the black eye his dept would have gotten, not to mention the impending litigation I would have brought upon his dept. Bad Judgment.

Second thing, is there is absolutely no need for him to threaten a civilian. Clearly I was not a danger in anyway to him or his partner. I never once used profanity, or raised my voice. Don’t know if that is standard procedure, but sure as hell not acceptable in my world. Bad Professionalism.

J Jones
March 17, 2004, 05:49 PM
Looking for stranded motorists is work, whereas writing tickets is revenue. :rolleyes:



I'm thinking that getting one of those mini-cassette recorders would be a good idea for everyone so as to document what occurred for future reference.

Navy joe
March 17, 2004, 05:54 PM
In retrospect(20/20):
-Your sis should have filled her tank in the daylight in a good part of town. Not 5 bucks worth, full.
-You should have had spare gas on hand, because you never know. Especially in Calistan, fires, floods, muds, riots, eathquakes, I'm getting the hell out of Dodge and you need gas to do that. ATMs and gas pump might not always work when you need them. A little tough to cache gas at an apartment, but find something.
-You should have never left them out there. Or yourself. Drunk or tired drivers run over cops all the time, nothing to say they couldn't hit her car. Since your wife and sis would probably be just sitting in the car chatting with no seatbelts on it is possible to come back to the two most important women in your life DRT. Not good.

But, that said, damn I hate people who are petty tyrants just because they can get away with it. Call their boss and send a letter.

PATH
March 17, 2004, 05:58 PM
If an officer has behaved in an unprofessional manner then it is a very legitimate thing that you address it. Professionals act professionally whereas jerks act like jerks. It could be that this individual has a serious attitude problem that needs to be documented. It is not LEO bashing to expect a lawman to act professionally.

I would like to say that not all LEO's behave in this fashion. Document everything witout rancor and address it. You may be doing other LEO's and the public at large a great service.

fix
March 17, 2004, 06:01 PM
Sounds to me like you guys just exchanged a few impolite words. I wouldn't file a complaint over that.

Detachment Charlie
March 17, 2004, 06:12 PM
50 Freak:
You are operating under the misconception that LEOs exist to help the law abiding citizens. Silly boy. They exist to advance their careers through arrests made and citations issued. You, the ordinary citizen are merely (a) a source of tax dollars; (b) a warm body to be arrested; (c) an impediment to their righteous exercise of authori-tai, or (d) one of "them" -- s in "us vs. them."
I don't consider this cop bashing, just a distillation of 30-years of overheard conversations among police officers, several of whom were close relatives.
Oh, and about calling and asking if the department has a review board of any type, you might as well play Farmer Brown and ask the fox to whom you should complain about the dead chickens in the coop.

Standing Wolf
March 17, 2004, 06:14 PM
What really irks the hell out of me is the fact the officer, after being told the situation and given the environment we live in where abductions and murders happen on a daily basis. Still did not care to make sure his charges (the public) were safe.

He has a ticket quota to meet. Your tax dollars at play.

I've driven Highway 280 hundreds of times in both directions. No matter where you stop on that road, you're not safe. It's a beautiful road, but there are far, far too many criminals on it.

Logan5
March 17, 2004, 06:26 PM
The Sherriff was definitely rude, but it's not clear he really understood what you were trying to tell him. Usually they keep their cool a little better. It sounds like he thought you were spinning a tall tale to get out of the ticket... "I'm meeting my wife and sister parked on the side of the freeway" dosen't tell him the same thing as "I'm coming back with gas to help my stranded little sister, she was right there 20 minutes ago, and now they're gone!" I'm pretty sure he thought you were full of it, which is unfortunate.
I don't know how they do it in CA, but if you contest a ticket here, you will sit in the courthouse hallway all day, but the state will usually offer to cut your fine in half if you'll just go down the hall and pay it. I doubt you'd get it dismissed; it just dosen't matter why you did it for purposes of traffic infractions.

J Jones
March 17, 2004, 06:31 PM
He will still get to prove his story to a judge and, perhaps, hear this judge ream the officer for his "professionalism." As to there being no mitigating circumstances, I think that is false; if you rush someone to a hospital, I believe you can get off the hook.

sendec
March 17, 2004, 07:22 PM
That the in-car video from the cruiser will not support your statement? That the officer may have heard any number of different variations on your theme? That your definition of 'professionalism" may differ from that agencies?

Where should a stupid motorist trick fall on the LE criticality scale? Is it more important or less important than a driveaway, or vandalism, or a noisy party, or stolen car, or a rape, or a murder? After all, the guys already dead, so whats the hurry? Your sister was careless and you commited a violation and you are the victim here? Granted, the LE community would lose a lot of work if people actually thought before they acted, but hey, the cops should be out chasing real criminals, right. No wait, they should be out dispensing gas.

Look, are you mad at the Deputy, or your sister, or embarassed that you got caught? Go ahead, file the complaint if it will make you feel better. The majority of IA complaints boil down to "the officer was'nt nice to me." I am sure that he and his supervisor have nothing better to do than mollify your hurt feelings, but man, listen to yourself. Your sister was'nt "victimized," and neither were the millions of other people who filled their tanks and did'nt back up off ramps. The police are public servants, and occasionally the service is to tell people not to do stupid stuff.

J Jones
March 17, 2004, 07:29 PM
When does making threats qualify as professionalism?

Granted, the LE community would lose a lot of work if people actually thought before they acted

Why? Is thinking not required? Perhaps if the officer thought more and acted less, he'd have fewer problems to deal with.

12-34hom
March 17, 2004, 07:55 PM
kbr80 - No, just a normal run in with JBT's all authority, no brains at all

Since you were a JBT for 15 years; are you speaking from experience or is that just speculation on your part....;)

12-34hom.

artherd
March 17, 2004, 08:01 PM
50 Freak-

Through failure to act on information that a crime may be imminent (two women alone stranded on the side of 280 at night.) the officers may have not just been rude. They may be guilty of a felony.

They certinly may have placed your family in danger through failure to act.

PM me about the ticket. CA has many laws that may be to your advantage. (I know you don't give much of a crap, but the pricniple offends *me!* :)

Two things from a bench-warmer with 20-20 hindsight.:

1) Why the hell didn't both of those women have a dam cell phone?

2) Rectify the can't-drive-stick situation immediately.

fix
March 17, 2004, 08:06 PM
They may be guilty of a felony.

Oh for the love of God, make this nonsense stop!!! Being a tool is not a crime. We only have one side of this story, and based entirely on that it appears as if this was merely an exchange of harsh words between two guys who were not in the best of moods. We know why 50 Freak was not in a good mood. We don't know about the officer in question.

"I can't believe that you are more concerned about giving me a ticket than the safety of two females stranded on the freeway".

Maybe you should have just taken the ticket and then explained your situation to the officer in detail rather than being critical of him for giving you a ticket for a violation that is not disputed by any party involved.

Logan5
March 17, 2004, 08:33 PM
Bleah... we're getting pretty far afield from the gun portion, aren't we?

My two cents: Does your wife have a permit? If you feel you'd have to leave someone without a permit holding your glock even though troopers have been dispatched to your location, I'd say cram them in the car and take them with you instead, even if you have to pile a load of junk from your vehicle into the disabled one to make room.
It's going to be a really hideous situation if the wife has to shoot someone, or even if the cop spots her packing your glock without a permit. And the glock's not going to help if some drunk slams into the back of the disabled car at a high rate of speed, which is equally or more likely than the Manson family hopping out of the bushes.

Blue Line
March 17, 2004, 08:37 PM
The ticket and the so-called rudeness are two seperate things. Complain about his rudness to the proper persons, write it down mail it in etc etc etc. If your not contesting the ticket then pay it. Or if you go to court and explain why you were backing up maybe the judge will see it your way and give you a pass. I wouldn' t have left the girls alone, 20-20 hind sight because the car and such can be replaced. Get the kid or wife a cell phone!

Wildalaska
March 17, 2004, 08:56 PM
I'm pretty angry as we have been there for about 15 minutes now.

Hmmm...and did our anger show?

I say to him "I can't believe that you are more concerned about giving me a ticket than the safety of two females stranded on the freeway".

Maybe you should have said.."Gee Deputy, Im sorry, but I am worried about my sister who is missing here etc etc..."

Rudeness begets rudeness.

WildclosecallhereAlaska

50 Freak
March 17, 2004, 09:17 PM
Granted you all are only getting one side of the story but I am telling it as I remember it. Here are some more details to the story.

Never once did I have "attitude", yell, curse or even raise my voice at the officer. I'm not that stupid to think that you can be an A$$ to someone that you are trying to get to help you. Plus I try to treat the LEO's the way I wanted to be treated myself. Even after his buddy and him had a joke session on my behalf, I tried to keep my professionalism. So other than the statement I made, I was the model citizen.

If my statement "I can't believe that you are more concerned about giving me a ticket than the safety of two females stranded on the freeway" is enough justification for a LEO to threaten to drag me out of my car and arrest me, then I better pack my bags, as this is not the America I grew up in. I even suggested that he have his buddy (the other squad car) go check while he was giving me the ticket. No go on his part.

In retrospect, yes I should have taken the girls with me in the car, but we were told CHP was on the way. We saw a couple go by during the 30 minutes we were waiting. I guess it was getting late, and I was getting tired of waiting. The gas station was 5 or 6 miles away from this spot. I thought I could be there and back in a flash. Bad judgment call on my part. It's not going to happen again.

When the officer first approached my car. I stopped him by saying "before you give me a ticket, my sister and wife are stranded on the highway, and they are missing" Then I proceed to explain all that happened leading up to the time he pulled me over. I even pointed the freshly bought gas canister full of gas sitting in the front passenger side. So he was fully aware of my situation before he even left to write the ticket.

And my wife had a cell phone on her, I unfortunately didn't grab mine in my haste leaving the house. My sis didn't have her cell (she actually lost it last week) and that is why she was calling from a call box.

Hedger
March 17, 2004, 09:24 PM
As a deputy prosecutor, I am pro-LEO as most of you may have noticed from my prior posts on some of the cop bashing threads on this subject. However, if an LEO said those words to you in that manner, let his supervisor know. He may have been exhausted, may have just had a bad encounter or just a bad burrito for dinner that didn't sit well. In any event, his super needs to know about it and should review the situation. They may even have it on video/audio, so make sure your report is accurate, including your end of it.

Our office has to review these type of complaints from time to time (thankfully not very frequently). LEOs are human and we take that into account. Even so, I am not aware of any LEO agency we work with (about 8 different ones) who would think that was an acceptable response to a motorist in that situation. Doesn't mean the guy will get fired, suspended or anything that severe. Probably a review of "courteous contact" policy of the department would be warranted.

I have viewed literally hundreds of traffic stop videos in the last eight years. The best LEOs I know tend to merely smile and get really polite when a motorist says something to yank their chain. They never argue with people when they are handing out a ticket. They know what they can and can't do during a traffic stop and know that there is no profit in arguing.

It is important for you to report it if it came down as you say. That type of attitude makes it harder for all LEOs (and prosecutors) to deal with the public.

JohnKSa
March 17, 2004, 09:28 PM
My folks used to live in a pretty bad neighborhood. My dad isn't one to look the other way and he organized a local Neighborhood Watch (local police sponsored program). Every so often they'd have a meeting and a cop would come out to give a talk. The theme of the talk was always: "If you see anything suspicious, give us a call so we can deal with it."

One day, dad got home from work early and while he was cleaning out his van he noticed a suspicious vehicle doing slooooow laps around the neighborhood. This went on for about 45 minutes right around the time the elementary school up the street lets out. It looked pretty fishy so dad called the local police on the non-emergency line.

A cop showed up and dad pointed out the car which was just turning the corner a few blocks down. The cop got out of his car and wrote dad a parking ticket. Not only did he ignore the real problem, but the ticket wasn't even valid--it was dismissed--the cop didn't know the local regs.

Since then, I don't expect to get any real support from the cops unless tickets are involved.

GigaBuist
March 17, 2004, 10:04 PM
Of course, I've got the luxury of thinking about this for HOURS while you just had seconds, but here's my thoughts.

Given how close you were to where they should have been, I'd have laid down my keys and said I'd find them on foot if need be. Write me the ticket, fine, I agree what I did was illega, but I will not sit idle until I know they're safe. If that causes him a huge problem, fine, send the other LEO out to look for them and I'll willingly lay down on the ground and be cuffed so you feel safe. The other LEO was there for backup in case you went nutty I presume, which is why he didn't want the other guy going anywhere. If you're cuffed on the ground the 1st officer SHOULD feel safe. If not, well, he's in the wrong line of work.

To others who say, "Well, he might have just been having a bad day." I call horse crap on that one. It is his JOB to inteface with the public. Period. If he cannot do that in a calm manner than he's in the wrong line of work. Is it hard? Yes! As a computer professional I am not entitled to throwing machines on the ground or refusing to do my primary duty (to serve and protect in his case) just because I'm ticked off. It'd be like me reviewing backup log files while the entire network is down. My primary job is to keep things running. When that's not requiring immediate attention you can do your typical support-like duties. Writing tickets is NOT his primary job. It is to serve and protect.

I'd file a complaint definately. If the complaint isn't dealt with in some manner or another it may warrant taking it to court on the principal of the matter. If the ticket was that darned important to keep him from doing his primary job then take it court on that principal. Being in court keeps that officer from doing his primary job and make sure the judge knows WHY you are there.

50 Freak
March 17, 2004, 10:17 PM
JohnKSa,

Man that sucks, I've got a bad CHP story about how my dad was given a speeding ticket for doing over a 100 by a CHPer who said she clocked him with a radar gun. In court, it turns out she didn't even have a radar gun in her car, it was her husband (another CHPer) who clocked a him 20 miles earlier before my dad even aproached her location and who wasn't even present during the court case. My dad still lost, despite him having a witness in the car, and the CHPer having lied in court. Poor guy spent thousands of dollars on an atty and attended court 300 miles away from home because he believed he was in the right.

Didn't matter to the judge that my dad is the kind of guy that hadn't received as much as a parking ticket in the over 30 years and has a spotless record. Don't understand it.

There are good LEO's, and like everything there are bad LEO's, we all seem to remember the bad LEO's with a vengence, but seem to fail to remember that they are only a very small percentage of the whole.

sendec
March 17, 2004, 10:31 PM
Through failure to act on information that a crime may be imminent (two women alone stranded on the side of 280 at night.) the officers may have not just been rude. They may be guilty of a felony.

They certinly may have placed your family in danger through failure to act.

PM me about the ticket. CA has many laws that may be to your advantage. (I know you don't give much of a crap, but the pricniple offends *me!*


Crime imminent!!!!!!!!!! Missing women not abducted!!!!!! Family in danger!!!!!!! Feeeeeelonious deputies!!!!!!!!! Jackboots!!!!!!!!! RUDENESS!!!!!!

I cannot figure out what the problem is, too many drugs or not enough. Look, if people could take care of themselves, we would'nt NEED the police, but of course they are never around anyway, except when you are on a rescue mission for a damsel in distress and hang a Uey, then the heartless prongs do something like enforce the law, the unfeeling bastards. Cops can be reasonably certain that no less than half of the people they deal with are going to be upset with how the cops handled the situation. They are not in the business of making friends or winning popularity contests. While a great cop will make you thank him or her for the privilege of receiving your very own personalized traffic ticket carefully prepared just for you, they are few and far between. The vast majority are, dare I say it, human, with good days and bad. Go ahead, file your complaint, ask for your nickel back. Maybe between death notifications, cats in trees, alarm drops and child molest calls, he will get an epiphany and beg your forgiveness for interfering with this critical mission and leaving the fair maiden at risk of deflowering.

PM this guy and take his advice. Let us know what happens, decent sitcoms are rare.

rde
March 17, 2004, 10:36 PM
Typical LEO behavior that I see rather regularly in this neck of the woods. Power trip..using the threat of (if not making an actual arrest) to prove themselves. Kind of a "God Complex." Being retired military I have had a hard time biting my lip when I see or have been involved in something similar. Eventually these amateurs are going to push the wrong person and they are going to pay a penalty. It is just a matter of time.

JohnKSa
March 17, 2004, 10:36 PM
This was a local PD--Garland, TX--their latest newsworthy deed was searching a man's car using his NRA bumper sticker as probable cause. Judge didn't go for it.

Here's another one involving my folks. I was home visiting so I got this one firsthand.

It was late on a Friday night and I was in the front room on the sofa bed.

I started hearing shots coming down the street.

pop, Pop, POP, bang, BANG, BOOM!

I grabbed a pair of pants and headed out the front door, closely followed by my dad. Seems some idiots had emptied a .38 or .357 revolver while driving down the street.

By the time we got outside, there were several other neighbors outside. The last shot had gone through one side of dad's van punching out a neat disc of metal (I found it later) that went across the van and broke the window on the opposite side. The bullet went straight across and exited through the roof/side of the van.

When the cops got there, they took one look and started accusing dad of having moved the van--said it must have gotten shot elsewhere and he brought it home then reported it. This in spite of numerous "ear" witnesses confirming that it happened right then and there. They claimed that the broken window on the off side was proof that every one on the scene was lying.

If they had spent about 5 minutes, they could have walked down the street and found bullet holes in other cars and even in a couple of houses--guess that was too much work.

I'm not trying to say that all LEOs are like this. On the other hand, around here at least, your chances of getting genuine help seem to be low--your chances of getting yanked around seem high.

kbr80
March 17, 2004, 11:41 PM
Since you were a JBT for 15 years; are you speaking from experience or is that just speculation on your part....

12-34 Hom

Experience. I was not a JBT, unlike most of the Cops today. I had this real individual thing called thinking for myself and trying to project an image of respect, giving respect and receiving. You must understand, a police force is an extension of the populace it serves. Or at least thats the way I learned in in the Army. "Of the troops, for the Troops" Just think if police officers thought that way. Makes you wonder.

The majority of LEO's today are unprofessional. Since you are always coming to their rescue, I feel safe to say you are a member of that group. There is no reason i can think of for a peace officer to tell some one to "shut up, i can drag you out of that car and arrest you". No reason. If you let anger get to you and shout shut up, you do not need to be in Law Enforcement. 2nd, if you can drag some one out of a car and arrest them, do so, dont announce it to stroke your ego.

Kestrel
March 18, 2004, 12:16 AM
I wouldn't have cottoned very well to a cop/deputy telling me to "shut up" and then threatening me. He should be called on the carpet. I don't care if he had a bad day or not - it could have caused dire consequences with the situation with his sister and wife. I'd have a hard time letting that sass and attitude go, in light of the situation.

[Bill Hartman voice] But hey, that's just me. You'll probably sleep a lot better if you don't listen to my ramblings...

Steve

Nick96
March 18, 2004, 01:00 AM
Hey J Jones - your comment about getting a mini recorder has merit. A month or so ago a cabby here was pulled over and verbably abused by an officer. He did have a recorder (actually a feature on his cell phone as I recall) and recorded it all. When it finally got the media's attention the officer was fired in a matter of weeks.

The sad thing though is this same officer had received numerous such complaints going back several years - but nothing was done until a recording of his threats & vulgarities finally surfaced.

In the case of the officer in the freeway case - go ahead and file a complaint - but don't expect anything will be done. However, someday, someone like this will screw up with the wrong person, on video or audio. And combined with a collection of complaints - that will be it.

J Jones
March 18, 2004, 01:08 AM
In court, it turns out she didn't even have a radar gun in her car, it was her husband (another CHPer) who clocked a him 20 miles earlier before my dad even aproached her location and who wasn't even present during the court case. My dad still lost, despite him having a witness in the car, and the CHPer having lied in court.

All after the fact, but you realize that if the officer didn't get the reading themself, then they are testifying about heresay. Dad should've appealed.




Nick96,

I would think that some digital cameras would also work in this capacity, except they eat batteries like no tomorrow. The idea, however, is to be unobtrusive, so I think audio recordings are the best bet. I can just see officer "friendly" thinking he sees a gun, roughing you up and "accidently" erasing the recording should he suspect anything.

There is no reason i can think of for a peace officer to tell some one to "shut up, i can drag you out of that car and arrest you". No reason. If you let anger get to you and shout shut up, you do not need to be in Law Enforcement. 2nd, if you can drag some one out of a car and arrest them, do so, dont announce it to stroke your ego.

100% agreement. If you have cause, do it. If not, then you're just trying to intimidate.

I cannot figure out what the problem is, too many drugs or not enough. Look, if people could take care of themselves, we would'nt NEED the police, but of course they are never around anyway, except when you are on a rescue mission for a damsel in distress and hang a Uey, then the heartless prongs do something like enforce the law, the unfeeling bastards. Cops can be reasonably certain that no less than half of the people they deal with are going to be upset with how the cops handled the situation. They are not in the business of making friends or winning popularity contests. While a great cop will make you thank him or her for the privilege of receiving your very own personalized traffic ticket carefully prepared just for you, they are few and far between. The vast majority are, dare I say it, human, with good days and bad. Go ahead, file your complaint, ask for your nickel back. Maybe between death notifications, cats in trees, alarm drops and child molest calls, he will get an epiphany and beg your forgiveness for interfering with this critical mission and leaving the fair maiden at risk of deflowering.


If I knew what the hell you were saying, I'd try to respond. As it stands, your attempts to patronize are falling flat.

50 Freak
March 18, 2004, 02:02 AM
And I thought it was just me that didn't understand what the heck he was saying.

To sum up the whole thing, I called the Complaint Division and spoke to a "Detective Sargent" (didn't know such a thing existed). He said since he didn't hear both sides of the story he really couldn't say what would happen. But if what I was telling him was true, the threatening of a civilian by a LEO is not something that is tolerated and needs to addressed. He is sending me the complaint paperwork tomorrow.

I'll fill it out and file it. If nothing happens, I will know that at least I tried. I don't want the LEO fired or suspended or anything like this. All I want him to realize is that threatening people is not professional and no way for representative of the law enforcement community to act.

End of story.

roo_ster
March 18, 2004, 02:25 AM
JohnKSa:

I feel for your folks...and I'm sure glad I bought in Richardson.

So far, I've had nothing but professionalism and honesty from any City of Richardson employees/officials: cops, dog catcher, building permit office, city council, & mayor. So far I haven't met a bad apple. Consequently, I view encounters with City of Richardson officialdom with a positive atitude. I hope it stays that way, 'cause I like this town.

That was not the case in some other locales I have inhabited.

50 Freak:

Well, thankfully the family is safe.

I had "shoot, move, communicate" ingrained into my psyche and still inventory when I leave the house:
CCW? check
Quality footgear & car keys? check
Cell phone? check

50 Freak
March 18, 2004, 03:02 AM
CCW: check
Carbine for the trunk: check
Shotgun for "close encounters": check
Sniper, for "reach out and touch someone": check
Extra mags for all: check
Non magnetic Titanium MPK folder: check
HI Khukuri for hacking zombie heads off: check
Surefire: check
Batteries: check
Gas mask: check
Duct tape: check
Biosuit: check
Extra filters: check
Clean water: check
Carkeys: check
Extra cash to buy yourself extra ammo: check
Cipro: for anthrax attacks: check
Condoms for some R&R and to keep dust out of your barrel: check
MRE's: check
Maps: check
2 way radios: check
Cell phones: check

Good to go


Damn, forgot clean undies......

:banghead:

artherd
March 18, 2004, 03:28 AM
My dad still lost, despite him having a witness in the car, and the CHPer having lied in court. Poor guy spent thousands of dollars on an atty and attended court 300 miles away from home because he believed he was in the right.


Your dad needs a (much) better lawyer. The CHP commited purjury, in a matter directly relivant to the defandant's guilt. The case should have been thrown out, and your father could have gone after the CHP for damages and false arrest.

As Edmund Burke says, the ‘The only thing necessary for the triumph [of evil] is for good men to do nothing.’


To all of those who think I am over-reacting in my condemnation of the CHP's dismissal of 50 Freak's daughter and sister's safety, I pose the following question; Do you have a sister? Is her life less important than 15minuites of ticket-writing (or a simple radio call) to you?



sendec- I always try in my discussions to approach logic and tact with the same. However, you sadly leave me no options in that regard.

50 Freak
March 18, 2004, 03:45 AM
Hey I agree, but this was held in some one horse town and the lawyer was the only one in the yellow pages and recomended by the court. I felt pretty guilty as he was driving up to see his only son get married, and I offered to pay for everything. He declined and just chalked it up to experience. He lost his full driving privilages and had to get a provisional license for a year.

He's said if he'd survived Vietnam, going one year with only a provision license was no sweat. Can't argue with that man sometimes.:( :( :(

BamBam-31
March 18, 2004, 05:28 AM
Man, I feel for you, 50 Freak. I'd tell my "Respect my AUTHORI-TAI!!!" JBT story, but it'd sound a lot like the others posted, so I wont bother.

Cops. :rolleyes:

I own properties. A couple are in low income neighborhoods, and drug dealers are starting to show up. Tenants are complaining, landlords are liable. I call the local PD and explain the situation to them, hoping for help, hoping to get transferred to the Narcs or something.

"Is this an emergency?" they ask.

"No, but...."

"Then I'm sorry, but there's nothing I can do." Click.

My tenants have also called. Same story.

That's just the latest. I've called them numerous times for various reasons (being a landlord, you run into all kinds of stuff), and without fail, they work their asses off trying to find reasons NOT to help. Without fail.

I want to believe in cops, I really do. They make it so damn hard, though.

I've come to expect nothing but traffic violation harassment from them. I don't expect their help, their protection, or their professionalism. That way, if by some chance I am the beneficiary of any of the above, I will be pleasantly surprised.

That's just the sad truth. :(

Good luck with your complaint, 50 Freak. Make it stick.

50 Freak
March 18, 2004, 06:43 AM
Before this gets to everyone swapping their bad LEO stories. I have to say I have some really good friends that are LEO. A old highschool buddy of mine is an Orange Co. Deputy and the guy I shoot tactical carbine with is a San Jose LEO.

The two LEO's that trained me for my CCW were two of the nicest guys I met. They were SWAT trainers for a dept way up in northern Kali. Funny how when they found out I was moving close to SF, they warned me about the "city cops". Guess there was some truth to their advice. We had a heck of a day testing my 458 Tromix, and 50 cal against an old buick on their LEO range. :evil: :evil:

californian
March 18, 2004, 09:06 AM
50 freak.

Was it a San Mateo Deputy or a Santa Clara Deputy?

Mute
March 18, 2004, 12:09 PM
His wife could have been cheating on him and his dog ran over for all I care, there's no excuse for rude behavior and being a jerk. Report this guy to his superiors.

artherd
March 18, 2004, 02:25 PM
He's said if he'd survived Vietnam, going one year with only a provision license was no sweat. Can't argue with that man sometimes

Guy's got a point, still irks me to hear someone who served our country get abused by same country's system.

Sometimes you've just got to pick your fights though.

bountyhunter
March 18, 2004, 03:02 PM
Question is, am I blowing this all out of proportions? I don't have a lot of run in with LEO's and don't know if this is a-typical of this dept. No, you just confused the officer with somebody who actually gives a flying crap about the safety of people on the highway. BTW, that reckless driving threat was load of crap.

I just want to know who you had to kill to get a CCW permit in northern kali. Those things are more rare than honest politicians.

bountyhunter
March 18, 2004, 03:03 PM
Guy's got a point, still irks me to hear someone who served our country get abused by same country's system. Clearly, you have never dealt with the VA (veterans administration). "Abusing those who served our country" is actually their mission statement.:barf:

bountyhunter
March 18, 2004, 03:08 PM
Your sister was careless and you commited a violation and you are the victim here? I wonder what you do for a living? The point of the original post was that authorites who carry a gun and a badge should not be verbally abusive of citizens. period. It is both unnecessary and just plain bad manners. lst time I checked, having civil manners didn't cost a penny extra.

FNFiveSeven
March 18, 2004, 03:15 PM
"The CHP commited purjury"

Any LEO found guilty of purjury should be executed. No exceptions no appeal. Because of their position police officers should be held to a higher standard, if they lie under oath and violate the system they were entrusted to protect, death is the only suitable punishment.

We should have secret police who's only job and power is to peform sting operations on the "normal" police. These cops of the cops would have no authority with respect to normal citizens, only police officers. Entrap those lying @#%@#$ left and right, stick 'em all in the chair and throw the switch. :fire:

P.S. Before throwing the switch, take out their salvagable organs, sell them, and give the proceeds back to all the families who's lives these people have ruined.

bountyhunter
March 18, 2004, 03:37 PM
Because of their position police officers should be held to a higher standard, if they lie under oath and violate the system they were entrusted to protect, death is the only suitable punishment.

I'm sure that is sarcasm, but you might be surprised to learn the vast majority of LE's awould agree with the first part of the statement:

"Because of their position police officers should be held to a higher standard."

Most of them do hold themselves to a higher standard, and they probably dislike the ones who don't more than you do.

50 Freak
March 18, 2004, 06:31 PM
"Any LEO found guilty of purjury should be executed. "

Wow, pretty harsh. How about just a public flogging and some cell time with bubba.:evil:

Now any politician that is guilty of purjury should in my opinion be executed. We wouldn't have that bastard Clinton around anymore. And it would be a real "incentive" for politicians to stay honest

FNFiveSeven
March 18, 2004, 06:42 PM
I don't think it's too harsh. It's hard enough for cops to be prosecuted since they're practically sleeping with the DA and with the blue wall of silence and all. With the trust society puts into cops, if that trust is violated, and by some MIRACLE exposed, they should pay the ultimate price. Cops and politicians should be literally scared to death of betraying the public they have sworn to protect/represent. At least then they might be more likely to keep in line. The lowest form of life is a dishonest cop/judge/politician.


Don't shoot.... Let 'em burn!

Bill Hook
March 18, 2004, 06:54 PM
The lowest form of life is a dishonest cop/judge/politician.

Washington, D.C. is positively protozoan, then.

BamBam-31
March 18, 2004, 08:00 PM
Hey, look:

Thread d..r....i......f.........t.

:D

I'm as much to blame as any..... :neener:

illuminatus99
March 18, 2004, 09:05 PM
It sounds like a lot of people here are of the opinion that if you run out of gas it's because you're an idiot, sometimes that's not the case. the one time I ran out of gas it was because the gauge was off, normally I fill up when I get down to half a tank, for one reason or another I let it get down to 1/4 tank which I had never done with that car (my old car usually had a good 30 miles left on the E) this car was dead empty at the 1/4 tank mark.

I had quite a different experience though, it was during the day on I-5 and as I was walking to the gas station a WSP officer picked me up but had to drop me off when he got a call. then the strangest thing happened, an old friend of mine who drove short-haul to portland was on his way back and saw me and took me over to get some gas.

JohnKSa
March 18, 2004, 11:26 PM
jfruser,

Garland PD seems to have a relatively bad reputation in the area. Can't recall ever hearing anything bad about Richardson PD. On the other hand, I don't know anyone who lives there.

kbsrn
March 18, 2004, 11:39 PM
a pretty standard response from the police today. They are more concerned with writting tickets then helping people.

Dan Forrester
March 19, 2004, 12:17 AM
I'm thinking that getting one of those mini-cassette recorders would be a good idea for everyone so as to document what occurred for future reference.

They’d find that thing so fast when they search you; and then go ABSOLUTELY APE ????!

I've driven Highway 280 hundreds of times in both directions. No matter where you stop on that road, you're not safe. It's a beautiful road, but there are far, far too many criminals on it.

I think you mean “far to many cops”.

I’ve never driven 280, I live in Florida. And for that matter I’ve never had a speeding ticket. I have however had two run-ins with cops. One was bad and the other was really bad. I used to think all that police brutality was pure BS. I guess you think a little different when it’s you who might be the next Rodney King.

He will still get to prove his story to a judge and, perhaps, hear this judge ream the officer for his "professionalism."

Or he’ll show up this nice, friendly, mild mannered, calm, cool, soft spoken individual. And you’ll be up front, terrified, stuck in this intimidating situation, stumbling all over the place. And to top it all off, you’ll get to pay court costs!

This is a very typical run in with an LEO. The funny thing is I’ve never had a bad experience with a criminal. My best friend is a convicted felon; she’s getting off house arrest in the next two months. Boy does she ever have some stories.

You can write letters, make phone calls, or do what ever you want, but you’ll probably just waste your time. I’m a med student, so time is the one thing I have very little of right now. Just remember this incident, it’s a very typical one. You will flash back to this from now on every time you see one. I guess it just takes a certain personality type to become a cop!

Be careful out there man. They are out to get you.

Dan

orangeninja
March 19, 2004, 12:34 AM
I gotta tell you....Management not backing up officers in the field is epidemic. If you complain...you may hear nothing from the Dept. But I can PROMISE you the officers will hear about it. Especially a Sheriff Dept. They are elected and very suseptable to public sway of opinion. But once in a while....they won't do a thing. Very rare though.

1.) make a formal complaint to either the Asst. Deputy in Charge of Patrol or Deputy in Charge or Sheriff himself.

2.) contest the ticket...drag him into court with you.

3.) move to Texas....we don't leave women stranded on the highway.:D

50 Freak
March 19, 2004, 05:51 AM
Well, don't know if I already posted this. Spoke to the "Detective Sargent" and told him my story, yesterday. He mailed me a complaint form right after getting off the phone I guess, as it was in my mail box when I came home from work today. I'm going to fill that sucker out and try my best to make it stick.

Funny, he even told me to fight the ticket:what: He said if he was the ticketing officer, he would not have ticketed me, but helped in looking for my sis & wife. Said he was a family man and completely understood.

Don't know if he was blowing smoke up my A$$, but he did seem very sincere.

cryptoguru
March 19, 2004, 06:34 AM
50freak,

Yeah some Norcal police agencies have regular police officers who specialize in detective work but not quite passed a Sgt's exam or a Sgt's payscale maybe higher than plain old detective/officer. Some cities even have various Sgt. levels (1-3).

Your dad could have won big money from the CHP for the false arrest, recovery of court costs and some compensation. Well he did the worst thing possible, get an attorney out of a phonebook..you should always bring a experienced attorney..pay the extra $1000 in his travel/expense.

50% of San Francisco's police are the shortest, most clueless and incompetent officers around norcal. It doesn't take much to be a officer in S.F., just be a minority.

Always contest the ticket, when possible bring an attorney, always ask for a Jury trial too.

The complaint divisionsgt's usually aren't buddy-buddy with the regular beat cop.

orangeninja
March 19, 2004, 08:37 AM
50Freak...didn't I tell you that supe's don't back up line officers?:D

Glad to see it's universal.:rolleyes:

Viking6
March 19, 2004, 09:06 AM
Just my opinion but two things:
1) The officers shouldn't have been rude that's not their prerogative, but you broke the law, let the judge decide if your violation was mitigated
2) If you felt that your wife and sister were truly in imminent danger, then you should have taken the time to shift the load in your car to make room for them.

Regardless, good luck to you and yours

griz
March 19, 2004, 12:07 PM
BTW, that reckless driving threat was load of crap.

I'd bet it wasn't. My impression is they can call anything they want to reckless. I got one for doing a u-turn across the median.

I was in the left turn lane waiting for the light to do a U turn. When the light changed, a car in front of me in line broke down and the driver got out and raised the hood. Rather than try and find a break in the traffic in the inner lane, I turned around there. Because of the left turn light there was NO oncoming traffic at all, so I thought it would be safer than squeezing into moving traffic to the right.

BTW, He may have called in the dead car, but he never went over to help them.

The officer did not threaten me at all, he just wrote it up as reckless driving. I was surprised but figured the judge would see it was a reasonable thing to do. I was surprised again when the judge agreed with the officer.

I too chalked it up to expensive experience, but I wonder if the judicial system (LEOs included) realizes the damage they do to public trust when they go the revenue route instead of the public safety route? I could give you a list of things that show more concern for money than public safety, but I'll cut it short and say that in the long run this ruins respect for the law when it's apparent that safety isn't the issue.

bountyhunter
March 19, 2004, 02:55 PM
The officer did not threaten me at all, he just wrote it up as reckless driving.. What I was actually saying is that threatening to haul somebody to jail for that particular offense just because the officer considered it "reckless driving" is a load of crap. he can certainly issue a ticket for it (as they did in your case) but arresting somebody for it would be out of the question.

I was surprised again when the judge agreed with the officer. Really? You were surprised? In Kali, we don't get to tell it to the judge. To save money they use a "Commissioner of the Court" to hear cases. I'm not sure where they find them, but I did notice one nodding off and mumbling "Do you want fries with that?"

I have been in traffic court two times in 25 years and both were (seriously) completely bogus offenses. Since my name starts with "S", I am usually called near the end so I hear all the cases. You know how many are ever found innocent? NONE! ZERO! ZIP! You know what happens if the officer doesn't show up? You think you would win.... instead, the judge simply sets another date and you are screwed out of the days work you lost to come and fight the ticket. One guy got very hot over that and "was removed".

I am the only person I have ever seen beat a charge here in traffic court.... I showed proof to the court that the officer could not even have witnessed my position in traffic from where he was (which was true). The "commissioner" though for a momemnt and held up the drawing and asked the officer: "Is this where you were?" he reluctantly admitted it. The commish then said: "Well, I'm going to have to dismiss the charge." My heart jumped, some folks applauded. Then the commish said: "But, based on evidence I find you guilty of 22350A and the fine is the same."

Huh? 22350A is a statute that says "Driving in manner which may be unsafe for conditions." In other words, you are automatically guilty of 22350A anytime they want to write it up. It's the old fallback violation when you haven't actually done anything illegal but you pissed off the cop.

So, I scored a moral victory but still got screwed.

FedDC
March 19, 2004, 10:29 PM
"I would suggest that you advise your significant others that if they are stranded and you go get some help that MAYBE they should try to stay where you left them.

And there is this.



quote:
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Anyways, she was calling from a call box and the dispatcher said that she was dispatching CHP and it would be high priority.
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------



added to this.


quote:
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
So I start backing up on the on-ramp looking to see if I passed them. Midway down the ramp, the red light come on and a Sheriff's car pulls up to me (he had been parked at the bottom with his lights off).
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------



What makes you think that the SHERIFF'S DEPARTMENT gets dispatched to highway patrol calls?"


Ok, I am thinking that this is getting blown WAAAAAY out of proportion. Perhaps some information on how LE works will help to clear this up. First, in any given area there are usually several local level agencies including the city police (that can often reach into the county), the sheriff's dept., and the Highway Patrol. All have different missions and yet not so different missions. Also, in many places they do not share radio nets or dispatchers. There is often a HUGE disconnect in information between them, so it is unfair to assume that the officers you saw even knew what was going on. Also, they may have been responding to a call that took priority like a crime of violence. The fact is that you do not know what was going on in the cars that passed you or even if they knew that the women needed assistance.

If your initial call went to the HP and you were stopped by the Sheriff's Dept, he had no idea what you were talking about and most likely assumed that it was a ploy to get out of the ticket. Think about it, how many stories have you heard about the girl that cries her way out of a ticket or folks making up stories about having to go to the restroom...etc. People get creative when trying to get out of a ticket and he probably thought that you were doing the same. It also sounds like you were a bit pissed and he picked up on that.

I hate to break it to the cop haters, but LE is not all knowing. Just because something is reported to a dispatcher somewhere, does not mean that all leos automatically know the information. There have been many many times that I have seen wrong, incomplete, or must plain no info coming from the dispatcher when a lot of info had been provided to the dispatcher.

Personal Example:

One night, I was off duty and waking to my house when I was threatened by a crack dealer on a nearby street corner as I walked by. For my own safety, I chose to confront him immediately, as he would have been able to see where I lived if he watched me go home (about another block). He ran...I chased and caught him in about 20 yards. I cuffed and searched, found some dope and a knife, called 911 and asked for a marked unit quickly, but no lights and siren. I explained that I was on scene, but needed another unit.

How it went out over the radio: The scene in safe, already an officer on scene, one in custody, no assistance needed...seriously.

Well, after his homies started coming out of the woodwork, I called back and requested it again and got it straightened out, but it still took 15 minutes.

The moral of the story is that information flow gets F'd up and it is not the fault of the guys on the ground. No cop I know would willingly ignore a glaring safety hazard and risk the lives of two women to write a traffic citation. Filing a complaint when the info probably never went out on his radio is over reacting. The fact that you told him is not all that much evidence either, since we all get lied to about why people do things on a daily basis and he did what most of us would have done, writhe the ticket and let you go on your way.

JohnKSa
March 19, 2004, 11:08 PM
I don't think he assumed that the Sheriff's dept knew about the call. He TOLD the ticketing officer about the situation and was blown off. THAT's what he's irritated about.

kbsrn
March 20, 2004, 12:01 AM
One of the worst departments I've ever delat with is the Apron PD. They shot someone every few months and never seem to be held accountable for it. Plus their chief of police was one of the big anti-self defense guys. I guess he didn't want anyone to be able to defend themselves unless they cops.

tetleyb
March 20, 2004, 08:04 AM
I have purposely stayed out of this thread for alot of reasons, however, after reading more comments, I feel it necessary to respond. First, I am currently a police sergeant in a large department, in the East Bay. In fact, not too far from where this incident occurred. I've worked as a police officer for 15 years and you name it, I've done it, in the police field.

this is not a LEO bash
It may not have started out that way, however, that is exactly what this thread turned into.

What I am about to say will not be taken warmly by certain people. In fact, it will probably be perceived as rude and uncaring. However, here it goes:

He TOLD the ticketing officer about the situation and was blown off. THAT's what he's irritated about.

First, that is an assumption on your part and on the parts of everyone else here. There were only THREE persons at the scene at the stop. One of them has posted what they PERCEIVED occurred. It does not mean that is actually what occurred.

By his own admission, the person was upset, probably a little pissed off at the time (for missing the turn off), and had a million things running through his mind. Could it be his perception of the incident was quite different then what actually occurred?

Second, BLAME SOCIETY ITSELF. Yes, read that again: BLAME SOCIETY ITSELF. You've all heard it, you've all experienced it. In my line of work, it holds true: 10% of the population ruin it for the other 90%.

You do not know how many times I've been burned for falling for someone's sob story. After you get burned a few times, you stop getting burned. So it could just be, that deputy/officer whatever, had heard the "sister left on the highway" routine before. And he/she had been burned for that or something similar.

You try to be nice, you try to give a person a break, and they are the one's who are at the counter complaining. "If I had been speeding, why didn't the officer give me a ticket then?" After a couple of those, everyone gets a ticket and/or gets arrested.

Third, CHP was handling the call and had officers enroute. What was the deputies supposed to do? Drop everything and go? You do not know the officer safety risks, concerns, of following people around. Are the preparing you for an ambush? Who knows?

He admitted to the vehicle code violation, so why not just take the ticket (which he says he has no problem with), be quiet, and he would be on his way in 5-10 minutes?

Again, how was the deputy/officer supposed to know he was even telling the truth about the sister? What are they supposed to do, knowing CHP is handling the problem? Drive somewhere, with some unknown someone, and possibly get killed? The first rule of police work is safety and an officers job is to control/run his stop. Not let the person control the stop.

Finally, the internet and these message boards are a wonderful place. Truly wonderful. However, you really should be careful about getting and using "advice" posted here and elsewhere. Several people have posted information on this thread, which is completely WRONG. Worse, it can land your butt in jail. Be very careful of "self proclaimed experts."

What I was actually saying is that threatening to haul somebody to jail for that particular offense just because the officer considered it "reckless driving" is a load of crap. he can certainly issue a ticket for it (as they did in your case) but arresting somebody for it would be out of the question.

23103 VC-reckless driving; its is a misdemeanor, committed in the officers presence.

40303 VC- gives a peace officer authority to make an arrest for 23103 VC and PHYSICALLY TAKE THE PERSON INTO CUSTODY. Meaning you would go to jail, be fingerprinted, and photographed. True, after this, which could take 4-12 hours, you could be released on a citation.

Final note: As a supervisor, I take these types of complaints almost daily. After talking to the person making the complaint, 99.9% of them admit the contact didn't occur the way they said they did, when they originally complained. In fact, most just say: I though if I complained, I could get the ticket dismissed. My cousin told me that would happen. Again, be wary of the "self proclaimed know it alls."

kbsrn
March 20, 2004, 10:28 AM
"Third, CHP was handling the call and had officers enroute. What was the deputies supposed to do? Drop everything and go?
First, YES That is exactly what the officers should have done. Their job is to prevent/solve crime. Here is a citizen that was reporting a possible absuction to the officers ans all they seemed to be concerned with was making their monthly quato of tickets and bulling the citizen when they did not think he was subservient enough to them.
Second, Blame society? What kind of whine is that? It isn't my fault that I don't take the time to do my job right it is societies. The officer is supposed to treat each and every interaction with the public on a case by case basis.
If you as a supervior are taking these kind of complaints everyday about the same officers then I can tell you as a manager of over 100 people, that you do have a problem with your staff.

fix
March 20, 2004, 10:57 AM
Let me congratulate all you non-LEOs for providing such a fine example of the "us vs. them" attitude on the non-LEO side. :fire:

Their job is to prevent/solve crime.

Having a distant cousin who is stuck in a wheelchair because of some jackass backing up an on-ramp gives me a different perspective on the severity of the ticketed violation. So, in my opinion, the officer was doing the right thing. He responded to the violation he actually saw with his own eyes rather than to the problem that the person he just saw violate the law reported. What a shock.:rolleyes:

patentnonsense
March 20, 2004, 11:43 AM
Yes of course you can get the ticket dismissed!
But the real question is whether you should file a complaint - and I think you definitely should. Anything we citizens can do to highlight good and bad LEOs appropriately helps the integrity of the system.

Greg Bell
March 20, 2004, 11:47 AM
Guys,

I do a lot of criminal defense work. I have discovered that somehow, someway, the vast majority of people in general are morons. Unfortunately, this also applies to cops. Often, the conduct of the police makes me wonder if they are just the most powerful gang. On the other hand, there are many honorable, intelligent police officers who do everything humanly possible to conduct themselves ethically. Unfortunately, the outrageousness of the "bad cops" usually overshadows the quiet dignity of the good ones.

I have no illusions about the quality of the average LEO. Still, I wonder why people think that the cops are going to be any better than the average clod on the street. Grow up and deal with it.


O.K. so I'm grizzled.

Unlucky
March 20, 2004, 02:11 PM
Tetley and Fed,

No way, no how, should the officer have reacted in the way he did. This guy should file the complaint for the officer's unprofessional behavior. He should still go to court and see if he can get off the hook or at least embarrass the officer about his behavior (he'll probably perjure himself - so much for LEO integrity).

BrokenArrow
March 20, 2004, 02:33 PM
Sounds like both sides could have done waaaaay better than they did.

From the deputy's point of view, sounds like another BS story to get out of a ticket, how much time should he waste checking it out?

More than he did.

You know you and your kin screwed up more than once in this story; don't do it again. ;)

tcsd1236
March 20, 2004, 03:22 PM
"Any LEO found guilty of purjury should be executed. No exceptions no appeal. Because of their position police officers should be held to a higher standard, if they lie under oath and violate the system they were entrusted to protect, death is the only suitable punishment.

We should have secret police who's only job and power is to peform sting operations on the "normal" police. These cops of the cops would have no authority with respect to normal citizens, only police officers. Entrap those lying @#%@#$ left and right, stick 'em all in the chair and throw the switch.

P.S. Before throwing the switch, take out their salvagable organs, sell them, and give the proceeds back to all the families who's lives these people have ruined."

Sounds like you have some issues.
I'll disagree with you. Perjury, even from an officer, is not something suitable for a death penalty sentence. That type of sentence would absolutely violate certain rules about excessive or unusual punishment. Should it be tolerated? No. Is it a death penalty offense? No.

FedDC
March 20, 2004, 04:39 PM
By all means...file the complaint and see where it goes;)

Here is a hint: You go to the station, swear to the complaint, go through the interview, the complaint gets typed up and you must wait around to sign it. If the officer taking the report does it right, it will take about 5 hours out of your day...but he is getting paid the entire time.

Then, the officer you complained on will get called in to be interviewed whereby he is also getting paid to be there and they will finish his part up in about an hour. He will contradict your side of things and if he has a dash cam, it will likely do the same.

The complaint will be investigated and found to be without merit and that will be that. The end result is that the complainant loses 6 hours of their day and the officer is off the street and not fighting crime while dealing with a complaint that is going nowhere anyway.

Complaining will do one thing though, it will absolutely ensure that the officer will show up in court and testify that you are guilty of the offence and he might just have a word with the prosecutor if it ends up going to trial so that you are given the maximum possible sentence...you hit, we hit back.

As was stated, you got off light. He could have arrested you, or taken your license right there. In TN, LEOs have the ability to take your DL right there and you have to go be retested at the DMV prior to getting it back. Take the citation and move on. Don't back up ramps, it is not worth the risk!

Greg Bell
March 20, 2004, 04:57 PM
Feddc knows what he is talking about.:banghead:

Unlucky
March 20, 2004, 05:21 PM
The Gestapo didn't die in 1945, I see. :barf:

Nice to see such ethical LE behavior. :rolleyes:

As a taxpayer, I guess I should exercise my perogative and vote against every funding increase for LE. :neener:

FedDC
March 20, 2004, 05:39 PM
Exactly what part of that us unethical...

I just explained how it will go and that is truly how it will go. If this were a different kind of complaint, such as alleged criminal activity or some sort of abuse it would be different, but in this case where the officer did not violate any law or department policy, he can not be touched by the dept... If he had violated a policy or law it would be different, but from the story he did not do any of that. Being rude is not against the law or dept. policy...

kbr80
March 20, 2004, 05:56 PM
Being rude is not against the law or dept. policy...

And one wonders why most LEO's are painted in a bad light.

TechBrute
March 20, 2004, 06:24 PM
I gotta tell you....Management not backing up officers in the field is epidemic. If you complain...you may hear nothing from the Dept. But I can PROMISE you the officers will hear about it. Especially a Sheriff Dept. They are elected and very suseptable to public sway of opinion. But once in a while....they won't do a thing. Very rare though.

1.) make a formal complaint to either the Asst. Deputy in Charge of Patrol or Deputy in Charge or Sheriff himself.

2.) contest the ticket...drag him into court with you.

3.) move to Texas....we don't leave women stranded on the highway.
Absolutely correct. DPS drove my sister 35 miles to the family ranch when her car broke down and couldn't get cell service. Score 1 for Texas cops. :D

My truck broke down 70 miles outside of Barstow, CA halfway to Needles. No cell service. Tried to flag down the two CHiPs that passed me while I was hiking to the call box in the middle of the day smack dab in the middle of the Mojave desert. They both saw me and kept driving. I encountered a rattlesnake next to the call box and had to scare it away so that I could call AAA (which only costs $60 a year so buy it for your sister, 50Freak). When the tow truck showed up an hour and a half later, we loaded up my truck and had to continue eastbound for a few miles until we could exit and turn around. As we turned under the underpass, there were the two CHiPs sitting on the truck of their cars in the shade, chitchatting. I had the driver stop and I hopped out and asked them why they didn't stop, and they said that they don't have to. I didn't push the issue since I was on the way to a shoot and had a small arsenal with me. CA cops are known for taking your guns and holding them until you prove that you're innocent and that they're legal. Never made an issue with the department, but needless to say, Score -1 for CA cops. :(

Jim Diver
March 20, 2004, 07:46 PM
Was this a Santa Clara County Sheriff? If so, it would not suprise me.. They tend to be pricks.

I would not bother fighting it... The traffic commissioners in the area are corrupt (allowed illegal evidence) and will find you guilty and the cop may lie. (He lied when I was in court).

I would file a complaint with the super. I don't care what kind of day he/she had. LEO should always be polite.

tcsd1236
March 20, 2004, 09:14 PM
quote:
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Being rude is not against the law or dept. policy...
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------



And one wonders why most LEO's are painted in a bad light.

A term like "being rude" is open to interpretation, though. Someone may perceive something as "being rude" simply because to them the officer didn't treat them like some good old long lost buddy.While swearing, etc should not be tolerated, I don't see that its a good thing that you get all warm and fuzzy with someone.

Justin
March 20, 2004, 09:16 PM
Geeze.

I leave for a couple of days and look what happens...

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