Californias AB 711 Lead Ammo Ban


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Bruno2
May 15, 2013, 09:47 PM
CA is going to pass AB 711 which will ban all lead ammo fro hunting in the state:

http://www.nraila.org/legislation/state-legislation/2013/5/california-lead-ammunition-ban-(ab-711)-goes-to-assembly-floor.aspx

Earlier this week, the California Assembly Appropriations Committee voted 11 to 5 to approve a proposed statewide lead ammunition ban for all hunting, Assembly Bill 711. AB 711 would make California the first state in the nation to prohibit the use of all lead ammunition for hunting. This bill now goes to the state Assembly floor where it is expected to be brought up for a vote soon. The NRA urges all hunters, recreational shooters and gun owners to actively oppose AB 711. We strongly urge you to contact members of the state Assembly. Please forward this alert to your family, friends, fellow sportsmen and gun owners throughout California and urge them to do the same. Contact information for all state Assemblymen can be found here.

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firesky101
May 15, 2013, 10:07 PM
Lead ammo is already severely restricted here. There are many troubling bills going through our legislature that will set disturbing precedence if they do not get overturned in court. Hopefully they do not get passed at all, but I have very little faith in the legislature of this state. Many of the reps I contacted did not even bother to respond back.

x_wrench
May 15, 2013, 10:22 PM
California and New York seem to have the most extreme anti gun laws in the country. of course, personally, i think they have the largest congregation of eccentric people in the world (N.Y.C. & the greater L.A. area). so i guess that should not be to surprising. i have to feel sorry for the people of those states that stay because of family, and are forced into ridiculous, extremist anti-gun laws that are not necessarily what the majority of the state wants.

Bruno2
May 15, 2013, 10:30 PM
I believe the fact that both states have a large number of immigrants plays directly into the mindset. They have people coming from all over the world where they are not allowed to own guns in the first place. So they have no attachment to the constitution and how our independence was won. However the New England states cant use that excuse.

This bill will cause hunting there to be expensive. I have some non lead rifle bullets and they were at least twice as much as expensive lead bullets.

razorback2003
May 15, 2013, 11:18 PM
Bruno you are correct about the huge number of foreigners in California and NY who are scared of guns contributes to the problem.

guitartguy
May 16, 2013, 09:38 PM
Make every effort to leave that state. It took us 20 years, but we found
a home with like minded people here in Idaho. LIFE IS GOOD!!!:D

Dr_B
May 16, 2013, 09:54 PM
The truly unfortunate and often unspoken thing about California is that it is the state to which many other states look as a model. The danger is always that California is generally a glimpse of the future of the rest of America, unless the public wakes up.

ID-shooting
May 17, 2013, 12:22 AM
Sorry about that guys...silver lining, more ammo for the rest of us to buy ;)

Huskerguy
May 17, 2013, 12:40 AM
I think it used to be that Cali was the forerunner in setting the standard for new laws. EPA laws and such in the past always started in Cali. I am not so sure that is true anymore. I think more states are stopping and taking at look at costs and not was willing to follow the leader anymore. That being said, the lead ban would not surprise me to be a federal EPA ban and that would get us all screwed.

Cast of One
May 17, 2013, 09:20 AM
This annoys me. What kind if environmental impact does a 180 grain bullet make when shot at a mobile 4 legged creature? I can see banning lead shot at a duck pond but this is ridiculous.

dab102999
May 17, 2013, 09:26 AM
Some of the biggest problems I have with bills like this is the misinformation. Lead from bullets is much different on the environment then lead from paint. Even if ingested. There are so many places that are too hard to trace lead too that blaming it on bullets is just an easy out.

And even though it is implied for hunting how will this effect the self defense aspent. Expecially in areas that don't allow hollow point or ammo of that type. And I believe they are not just talking about exposed lead bullets. Even lead core bullets are affected to if I understand it correctly.

1911Tuner
May 17, 2013, 12:58 PM
The problem is that the EPA...like the IRS...is becoming more powerful and out of control, and none of its officers are elected. They can do pretty much as they please as long as they can show a reasonable suspicion...not proof...a suspicion...that a substance or an activity presents a "danger" to the environment. I've believed for years that the EPA will emerge to become one of the main tools of tyranny.

firesky101
May 17, 2013, 07:11 PM
Yes it is bullets with any lead. Here is their (IMO) flawed argument. Lead levels are increasing in the endangered carrion eater called the California Condor. The lawmakers say this is due to ingestion of lead in gut piles from hunters bullets. Here is my problem with it, lead levels have also increased in all the condors in captivity, so are we feeding captive condors lead bullets?

Bruno2
May 17, 2013, 07:18 PM
Don't try to mix logic in that argument firesky. People are still blathering on about global warming even after it was proven to be a myth by the people whom created it.

I watched a documentary about neighborhoods close to lead smelters not long ago(maybe 6 mos) at all. I could tell by the way the show was presented that we will be having trouble with obtaining lead for bullets in the near future. If the EPA were to start trying to push lead restrictions or trying to force the smelters into new compliance we would never see the end of the ammo crisis. The prices we are paying now would be a discount compared to what we would have to pay if we could even find it.

Deer_Freak
May 17, 2013, 07:28 PM
Yes it is bullets with any lead. Here is their (IMO) flawed argument. Lead levels are increasing in the endangered carrion eater called the California Condor. The lawmakers say this is due to ingestion of lead in gut piles from hunters bullets. Here is my problem with it, lead levels have also increased in all the condors in captivity, so are we feeding captive condors lead bullets?
Moreover, 99% of lead bullets pass through the animal. The condors can't be chasing all the lead bullets lodged in trees down. This is nothing but another backhanded method of gun control.

buck460XVR
May 18, 2013, 12:49 PM
The problem with the lead ban is once it is passed, ammo makers will try and rape hunters by charging outrageous prices for "non-lead" hunting ammo. Just like they did back when steel shot became required. Around here, now that DDT was outlawed and the eagles made a huge comeback, they too will feed on carrion, and there has been shown to be an increase in the lead levels in their blood also. Again....lead used in hunting ammo is being blamed. While whether or not lead in hunting ammo is really to blame, with today's technology, it's hard to imagine we can't find a affordable replacement for lead.

hang fire
May 19, 2013, 09:39 PM
Make every effort to leave that state. It took us 20 years, but we found
a home with like minded people here in Idaho. LIFE IS GOOD!!!:D


That sounds good, but I have found people from ****-forn-ia within a few years revert back to wanting the very same things which they left CA to avoid.

The ex California anti 2nd rats pouring into AZ are working 24/7 to turn this state into a CA clone hell hole.

barnbwt
May 19, 2013, 10:06 PM
ammo makers will try and rape hunters by charging outrageous prices for "non-lead" hunting ammo

It's not entirely their fault; tungsten is more expensive than steel, after all. There is also a limited market, since only a tiny fraction of shot gets thrown at birds (as opposed to clays/tin cans). The real purpose of this new ban is simply to drive up prices. An obvious directive to a higher-priced solution, with dubious benefit aside. Is there even any evidence of lead from firearms causing harm to man or nature in any quantity? Was there any when lead shot was banned (and have lead levels in fowl returned to ambient?) Or is this merely another "so long as it makes the activity more onerous" law (i.e. an infringement)?

I thought this nonsense was settled in the 70's when Congress forbade the EPA from banning lead in ammunition. I guess we're gonna see that raise its ugly head again, seeing how political its goals become (further evidence that agency should have never existed under our constitutional system).

TCB

Grassman
May 19, 2013, 10:32 PM
The problem is that the EPA...like the IRS...is becoming more powerful and out of control, and none of its officers are elected. They can do pretty much as they please as long as they can show a reasonable suspicion...not proof...a suspicion...that a substance or an activity presents a "danger" to the environment. I've believed for years that the EPA will emerge to become one of the main tools of tyranny.
Couldn't agree more. Why is the main enforcer of obamacare the IRS? I'll tell you why, no accountability. Easier to pass the buck.

Bruno2
May 19, 2013, 11:07 PM
I would like to see some follow up stats to prove the lead ammo ban on federal waterfowl has made a difference. I know the tree huggers can find stats that support their position, but I would like to see a real unbiased poll that says "yes" it has.

I have hunted ducks off and on since the lead ammo ban was put in effect. The only thing I have noticed is that the ducks keep flying when you wing them with steel shot. Unlike a lead ammo wound that will flatten out and break the wing the steel shot just passes through and the bird keeps going.I haven't tried any of the new hevy shot or bismuth which is supposed to be better.

Pistola
August 28, 2013, 01:16 PM
How true about the "immigrants" Bruno.

Solo
August 28, 2013, 01:44 PM
Yes it is bullets with any lead. Here is their (IMO) flawed argument. Lead levels are increasing in the endangered carrion eater called the California Condor. The lawmakers say this is due to ingestion of lead in gut piles from hunters bullets. Here is my problem with it, lead levels have also increased in all the condors in captivity, so are we feeding captive condors lead bullets?
Just curious, but are captive condors allowed to fly out in the wild or kept in enclosures? Because if the latter is true, there might be lead contamination in the food and water they are being fed.

I believe the fact that both states have a large number of immigrants plays directly into the mindset.

How true about the "immigrants" Bruno.
I would expect that everyone on this forum, barring Native Americans, are either immigrants or the descendants of immigrants.

Twiki357
August 29, 2013, 01:42 AM
I think that would more appropriately be phrased:

I would expect that everyone on this forum, barring Native Americans, are either LEGAL immigrants or the American born descendants of immigrants.

Solo
August 29, 2013, 03:53 AM
I would expect that everyone on this forum, barring Native Americans, are either LEGAL immigrants or the American born descendants of immigrants.
Valid point.

barnbwt
August 29, 2013, 12:17 PM
Enough bashing of the immigrants --we just aren't doing our jobs and converting them to our side well enough. My ancestors hail from decidedly anti individualist Europe, but we learned to do things the right way once we got here.

TCB

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