The 270 has to be worthless!


PDA






50 cal
May 15, 2013, 11:43 PM
I've been to wal marts in 6 states in the last 3 months and the only high powered rifle round that there seems to be.plenty of is the 270. I guess I need to build a mini-gun chambered in 270 because it will always be available:) Sounds like a good.survival round because it can survive the worst ammo panic in american history and theres plenty of it. Any thoughts???

If you enjoyed reading about "The 270 has to be worthless!" here in TheHighRoad.org archive, you'll LOVE our community. Come join TheHighRoad.org today for the full version!
jr_roosa
May 15, 2013, 11:46 PM
I'd bet that the majority of .270 owners either load their own, or are hunters with only a small seasonal need for ammo. Same with .30-06, but I'll bet that all the .308" bullets are going to .308 Winchester demand. Not much else to do with the .270" bullets they have laying around but to stuff them into the 270 Winchester brass and box em up.

-J.

MutinousDoug
May 15, 2013, 11:48 PM
270 can't be any good; it has no military heritage.

Walter
May 15, 2013, 11:55 PM
I check the ammo cabinet at my local Walmart every time I go in there, about once a week, and they always seem to have a few boxes of 22.250, .300WM,
.270 (like you said), and sometimes some .30-30. And a few boxes of shotgun shells, mostly .410 and 20 ga.

NO handgun ammo and NO .22 rimfire ammo.:banghead:
This is really starting to get tiresome.

Walter

InkEd
May 15, 2013, 11:58 PM
.270, .300WM, 7mm Rem, .30-06 and birdshot shotshells are abundant at both my loval Wally World and Bass Pro.

I have thought about getting a .30-06 bolt action because I don't have a bolt action and it is a classic American cartridge. I just can't find anything in a lefty model that is a well-reviewed entry-level (read "cheap") rifle.

Ed Ames
May 16, 2013, 12:09 AM
If You were a new would-be gun owner, and walked into a shop today, looking for a deer gun, would the average store guide you to a .270?

I've never really shopped for that sort of weapon but it seems as though the industry has been pushing short action stuff recently. 7mm-08, various short magnums, .223, .243, .308, and anything else they can cram into a short action.

Most of what I see on the shelves is long-action. Not everything, but there is plenty of .25-06, .270, 7mm Mag, 300 magnum, and so on. Seems to be a case of, "makes sense if new people are now buying ammo."

parker51
May 16, 2013, 12:12 AM
Maybe it's just too powerful for shooters that only shoot 223's. It's not a round that many want to shoot more than 20 rounds per trip to the range. I have used mine to take 3 bull moose and several whitetails. If things keep going as they are now there probably won't be any on the shelves come deer season.

J-Bar
May 16, 2013, 12:45 AM
My Ruger #1 in .270 Win. will be one of the last guns I sell.

Just FYI.

IdahoSkies
May 16, 2013, 12:47 AM
I love my .270. All the bite with little of the bark.

bracer
May 16, 2013, 01:21 AM
I purchased a Win Mdl 70 270 in 1952 and started reloading ammo for it in 1953. Over the years I picked up reloading supplies for it whenever they were on sale. I could care less what the current supply is. Over the years whenever I got a new sporting firearm I started looking for ammo and reloading supplies that were on sale so I m smiling. I got ammo , reloading supplies and 17 Hornet reloading dies but I don't have a CZ 17 Hornet rifle get.

TenDriver
May 16, 2013, 01:31 AM
270 can't be any good; it has no military heritage.

Untrue. Parent case is the .30-06. ;-)

Funny you bring this up. I've got 100rds I've been trying to sell for cost to buy dies and more powder, and can't move them. Been thinking about selling the rifle and swapping to .30-06 since I already load it, but now I'm thinking it may be wise to have two flat shooting, high power cartridges.

TenDriver
May 16, 2013, 01:32 AM
I purchased a Win Mdl 70 270 in 1952 and started reloading ammo for it in 1953. Over the years I picked up reloading supplies for it whenever they were on sale. I could care less what the current supply is. Over the years whenever I got a new sporting firearm I started looking for ammo and reloading supplies that were on sale so I m smiling. I got ammo , reloading supplies and 17 Hornet reloading dies but I don't have a CZ 17 Hornet rifle get.

You don't have an extra set of 270 dies, do you? (I kid).

Agsalaska
May 16, 2013, 01:44 AM
I think the same can be said for everything not .308 and .223.

But the thread kind of moved towards the future of the .270 and if LGS are turning people away from it. I don't see it going away by any means, but it would not surprise me if it slipped considerably in popularity in the next 30 years or so. I love the .270 and have no interest in hunting with anythign other than bolt and lever action rifles. But I am a part of a dying trend. The .270 and .243 are both normally used to take the same game as the 5.56. It seems to me the 5.56 will take a lot of the market share for those two rounds along with pressure from the 7mm-08 and -308. It will be interesting to watch.

Bruno2
May 16, 2013, 02:24 AM
Yeah, its a 30-06 derivative . Just like the 25-06. It's a good round for sure. Don't knock it. That round kills thousands of deer every season.

ahil925
May 16, 2013, 07:40 AM
Went to a walmart today and saw the same thing. Empty shelf space except for some 20ga (which had disappeared for awhile), a little 410, one box of 300 Win Mag, and what looked like over 200 boxes of .270 in atleast 4 loadings and 3 makes.

If only there were some cheap plinking ammo being made for it I might look into picking up a bolt gun in that caliber for some range fun. Then again, that may be why its actually available.

MichigammeDave
May 16, 2013, 08:25 AM
The .270 was my uncle's go-to deer cartridge until he hit his 80s and couldn't carry it anymore. I borrowed one from him one year and got a deer with it, one round and down. Great round. Of course, neither of us buys factory ammo except for rimfire and 20 gauge. I even load my own .410 with MagTech brass!

bannockburn
May 16, 2013, 09:05 AM
Plenty of rifle ammo in just about all calibers on the shelves of the local Walmart, save of course for .223 and .308. Still no pistol or .22LR ammo.

jmr40
May 16, 2013, 09:11 AM
There isn't any ammo to speak of at a Walmart within 50 miles, but all of the local gunshops are well stocked with anything you want.

Shanghai McCoy
May 16, 2013, 09:15 AM
The same two boxes of 270 have been sitting on the shelf at the west side wallywerld in Lawrence, Kansass, for the last three times that I stopped.
My wife's deer rifle is a 270 but we have plenty of shells...

Zeke/PA
May 16, 2013, 09:19 AM
My Ruger #1 in .270 Win. will be one of the last guns I sell.

Just FYI.
My Ruger #1, a 200th Year version in .270, was my first #1 and it's a great rifle.
I shoot all reloads as someone stated and the rifle seldom gets shot save for deer season

gennro
May 16, 2013, 09:34 AM
The Walmart here has 270, 300, 20ga, 7mm mag, and that is about it. While all the other LGSs around here have plenty of ammo compared to Walmart.

Jim, West PA
May 16, 2013, 09:52 AM
270 can't be any good; it has no military heritage.

Surely you jest.
If that's the only bases that you judge a caliber to be " any good" Doug. You are seriously denying yourself a LOT of shooting adventure.
Not to meantion knowledge.

Ed Ames
May 16, 2013, 09:54 AM
You shouldn't shoot .270 out of respect for law enforcement.

navystang
May 16, 2013, 10:17 AM
The only thing the Walmart here has is 20 gauge and about 10to 15 boxes of 300 win mag

TenDriver
May 16, 2013, 10:34 AM
This thread has made my mind up for me on whether to keep my .270. Easy decision since ever store has it on the shelf, but no one buys it.

Yep. I think I'll keep it! (Still sell that ammo though). Hornady SSTs are calling.

Ranger Roberts
May 16, 2013, 10:41 AM
I hunt with my 270. It's a great deer gun! It's the caliber I shoot the least of though. I sight in at the beginning of the season and if all goes as planned I fire 3 to 5 shots during the season. Then again I hunt with my 30.06 and 30-30 as well and I target shoot with them a lot.

CoRoMo
May 16, 2013, 10:49 AM
I'd bet that the majority of .270 owners either load their own...
Owner of several .270 rifles here. The first firearm I ever purchased was a .270 rifle, and the most recent rifle I purchased was also.

And I've never bought a single solitary box of factory ammo.

Ever.

I did though, run one box of Winchester Power Points through a couple of those rifles.

But I had little choice; the dealer gave me that box of ammo when I bought one of the rifles. Rather than pull the bullets, I just emptied the brass the fun way.

Although .270 rifles are aplenty in my safes, and I still aim to buy at least one more (as always), I'm not a customer in the market realm of .270 Winchester ammo.

J-Bar
May 16, 2013, 11:22 AM
My Ruger #1, a 200th Year version in .270, was my first #1 and it's a great rifle.
I shoot all reloads as someone stated and the rifle seldom gets shot save for deer season
One shot on paper to verify the point of impact, one shot kill on the deer.

Using two shots a year, a box of ammo lasts a while!!

whetrock
May 16, 2013, 11:53 AM
I too have noticed this phenomenon. I got to thinking that maybe these slightly off beat cartridges (the .270 is incredibly common around here though, and among the most popular rifle cartridges) that they have proven to be actually, more available in these panics than more common cartridges. Same with some, metric, milsurp ammo like 7.62*54 is still cheap and available. Maybe it's a good idea to have some firearms chambered for some non- mainstream rounds. I mean .270 is incredibly popular and common, but not nearly as much as say, .308 or .223.

dirtykid
May 16, 2013, 11:58 AM
Its funny this thread appeared, I happened to be looking at a private-sale of a Model 70
in .270 with a stainless, heavy varmint barrel for a reasonable price
The only thing that's keeping me from snatching it up is the laminate stock, and
my lack of knowledge of the ballistics/history of the .270
So, it basically is a 30-06 cartridge necked-down ?
This seller is pushing it as a "coyote" gun ,, seems like it would work for coyotes IF
you didn't care what condition the pelt came back in..

TenDriver
May 16, 2013, 12:02 PM
Its funny this thread appeared, I happened to be looking at a private-sale of a Model 70
in .270 with a stainless, heavy varmint barrel for a reasonable price
The only thing that's keeping me from snatching it up is the laminate stock, and
my lack of knowledge of the ballistics/history of the .270
So, it basically is a 30-06 cartridge necked-down ?
This seller is pushing it as a "coyote" gun ,, seems like it would work for coyotes IF
you didn't care what condition the pelt came back in..

A .270 will do most everything a .30-06 will do. I've never shot a coyote with mine but the deer I've killed with it didn't have much hide damage. It's a fast, flat shooting bullet that does a lot of internal damage. The exit wounds aren't much bigger than the entrance.

You can always find a wood stock later I suppose.

CB900F
May 16, 2013, 12:58 PM
Fella's;

I'm on the side of the detractors. The various 7mm's have better bullet selection, etc, etc.. It's nothing more thatn the red-headed stepchild of the ought-6, etc. etc. The damm thing woulda died a long time ago if it weren't for all the hype O'Conner heaped on it., etc, etc. And there's several rounds in the immediate vicinity that do a better job: .280 Rem, 6.5 Swede just to name a couple that haven't had the O'Conner halo hung on 'em.

Personally, I've rebarreled guns rather than keep it a .270.

900F

sonick808
May 16, 2013, 01:59 PM
Same story in last 3 AZ Wal Marts I've entered

Empty cases, one product remains: .270

I already plan on picking up a #1 in .270 so it's nice to see others in the thread loving theirs

22-rimfire
May 16, 2013, 02:07 PM
I think you need to find yourself a 270 :D

They have a little too much bark for protection and the ammunition is too large for a survival gun unless you happen to have it with you when you need to "survive". In which case, you'd probably be lucky to have 20 rounds with you.

JRH6856
May 16, 2013, 02:16 PM
I love my .270. Of course, it is really a 6.8SPC. ;)

pikid89
May 16, 2013, 02:33 PM
AFAIK, the 270 is not based on the 30-06, its based on the .30-03 Springfield. 30-06 necked down is actually to short to make .270 Win brass to spec.

JRH6856
May 16, 2013, 03:17 PM
^^^correct. The 30-03 and .270win have a longer shoulder than the 30-06. 30-06 can be fired in a 30-03 but there is too much throat. Same if 30-06 is necked down to .270, but it will fire form to the correct dimensions.

TenDriver
May 16, 2013, 03:25 PM
That's what I thought as well. Found two different articles that said the parent case was the -06 though.

You're absolutely right about the .06 being too short to neck down. I've had 270 cases in my stack of .06's while sizing. Most of the time the only way I knew was extra force on the ram required to expand the neck. Then I have to start trimming.....

Just curious... When it comes to hunting an open field, how does a 280 or 6.5 Swede perform any better than a 270? Dead is dead....

With rolling my own I can load anything from 100 gr up to 150 and push it at 3000 fps for the most part if I choose. Sorry, but poo poo-ing any caliber as better or worse when comparing most common hunting rifle cartridges is garbage. For that matter, we only need 4 offerings in this country. .22LR, .223, .30-06 and .300 Win Mag. That combo would take any game in North America.

CZguy
May 16, 2013, 03:30 PM
I'm on the side of the detractors. The various 7mm's have better bullet selection, etc, etc.. It's nothing more thatn the red-headed stepchild of the ought-6, etc. etc. The damm thing woulda died a long time ago if it weren't for all the hype O'Conner heaped on it., etc, etc. And there's several rounds in the immediate vicinity that do a better job: .280 Rem, 6.5 Swede just to name a couple that haven't had the O'Conner halo hung on 'em.

Personally, I've rebarreled guns rather than keep it a .270.

Heresy! :D The 7mm's kick harder.

The 6.5 Swede is outstanding though.

22-rimfire
May 16, 2013, 03:40 PM
Unless you shoot your 270/30-06/280/7mm/308 for varmints or you are really hung up on accuracy and ballistics, I see little reason to reload them unless you just want to. But many do. 270 win is left on the shelf because I suspect that most people keep a couple boxes on hand and have little reason to really stock up in quantity.

During the last ammunition shortage, there was usually a good supply of 30-30 in stores. Not this time. Guess people view it as a "survival" caliber now.

For that matter, we only need 4 offerings in this country. .22LR, .223, .30-06 and .300 Win Mag.

Variety is the spice of life. I would go a little larger than 300 win mag. for that last caliber choice, and change #3 to 270. :D

Geno
May 16, 2013, 03:40 PM
The .270 Win is a dandy round for "the lil lady". :evil: Yup. You fellas thinking of gettin' a .270 Win, naw! Man-up an' get a bigger round. Leave those .270 Wins on the shelf for me. (pause) That didn't sound right did it?!

It has been an interesting experience to see significant amounts of ammo available in .243, .25-06, .270, 7mmRM, .300WM and of course .30-06. As already stated, bird shot. I agree that most people who shoot a .270 Win probably do handloads. I try to keep some factory Hornady SuperFormance 130 grain SSTs on hand, and abundant reloading supplies for it. It puts the hurt on everything from varmints to ram, deer and boar.

.270 Win ... the original 7mm-06. :eek:

Geno

parker51
May 16, 2013, 03:42 PM
At least owners of 270's know they can still get some range time in while those looking for .223, 308 & 30.06 spend their early morning hours in Walmart parking lot playing the ammo lottery.

WinchesterAA
May 16, 2013, 03:45 PM
I've got half a dozen rifles chambered in .270

I only ever use one for hunting (it's the only rifle I hunt anything with), but sometimes I bring other folks with me that don't have their own rifles, or only have silly stuff like .223s that aren't particularly suitable for hunting larger game animals. That's where the other ones come in.

It's one of my favorite catridges, being powerful and mild on the recoil even in a 6lb gun. Also appears to be panic-resistant, as well.

Zeke/PA
May 16, 2013, 05:34 PM
Any of you Guys remember the late,great, Jack O'Conner?
Need I say more?

SlamFire1
May 16, 2013, 05:53 PM
It does not kick hard enough, no high capacity firearms chambered for it.

Can't see any reason for it at all....


Except for the part where it works. :D

mdauben
May 16, 2013, 06:01 PM
The .270 and .243 are both normally used to take the same game as the 5.56. It seems to me the 5.56 will take a lot of the market share for those two rounds along with pressure from the 7mm-08 and -308.
I disagree. The .270 most certainly not in the same class as the 5.56mm. The .270 is solidly in the deer/elk class and is more comprarable to the .308, .30-06, etc.

270 can't be any good; it has no military heritage.
Was I the only one to recognize this as sarcasm? :rolleyes:

This seller is pushing it as a "coyote" gun ,, seems like it would work for coyotes IF
you didn't care what condition the pelt came back in..
Yeah, seems like an odd set up and certainly would not be my first choice for coyote. Personally, I would be looking at .223, .243, or if you need to put your coyotes down at extreme range maybe one of the .25 cals.

Agsalaska
May 16, 2013, 06:06 PM
I disagree. The .270 most certainly not in the same class as the 5.56mm. The .270 is solidly in the deer/elk class and is more comprarable to the .308, .30-06, etc.


I agree with that in capability. Clearly the .270 is closer to a 30-06 than a .223. But not in actual field use. How many deer are shot every year compared to elk in the US(I would love to know the answer to that actually if anyone has any idea where to find it.) The .270 is used far more for deer than for elk. That is why I question the long term survival, at least at current usage, of the cartridge.

mdauben
May 16, 2013, 06:14 PM
The .270 is used far more for deer than for elk. That is why I question the long term survival, at least at current usage, of the cartridge.
Yes, but you could say the same about the .308, the .30-06, and probably even the 7mm and .300 mags. Is just down to numbers. There are probably at least 100 deer shot in the US for every 1 elk.

That is why I question the long term survival, at least at current usage, of the cartridge.
Personally, I prefer it over many of the other choices in the same class, but I will freely admit I'm "old school". I don't think the .270 is going to die any time soon, but its probably already passed its hey day and been eclipsed as a hunting round by newer, more trendy cartridges like like the short and super-short magnums.

J-Bar
May 16, 2013, 06:24 PM
Would you believe a poll that put it ahead of the .30-06 and .30-30?

http://www.chuckhawks.com/12_rifle_cartridges.htm


or...

http://answers.yahoo.com/question/index?qid=20080914142920AAbs1TA

Bruno2
May 16, 2013, 08:00 PM
The yahoo answer link was just a few people throwing around opinions. There wasn't really anything scientific about it.

JRH6856
May 16, 2013, 08:20 PM
That's what I thought as well. Found two different articles that said the parent case was the -06 though.

You tell me

gym
May 16, 2013, 08:33 PM
Speaking to odd rounds, a company called Liberty is selling a 50 grain 9mm round that is being hyped on a recent "weapons world" email as a 2000FPS round, and upon further research it really does exist, and on UTUBE seems to be very effective for SD. I ordered 2 boxes. They also had actual 9mm in stock from another "Swiss" ammo manufacturer.

J-Bar
May 16, 2013, 08:47 PM
"The yahoo answer link was just a few people throwing around opinions. There wasn't really anything scientific about it. "

And this thread is more scientific??

Jcinnb
May 16, 2013, 10:44 PM
At my Wally it is 7mm. I have gone back to guns three or four times in last several months and the 7mm shelves are full with nothing else in stock. Embarrassing for 7mm shooters!

Agsalaska
May 17, 2013, 12:04 AM
Yes, but you could say the same about the .308, the .30-06, and probably even the 7mm and .300 mags. Is just down to numbers. There are probably at least 100 deer shot in the US for every 1 elk.


Personally, I prefer it over many of the other choices in the same class, but I will freely admit I'm "old school". I don't think the .270 is going to die any time soon, but its probably already passed its hey day and been eclipsed as a hunting round by newer, more trendy cartridges like like the short and super-short magnums.
Yep. I agree with that. I think we are saying the same thing. It will be around for a long time but has probably passed its prime. I am certainly not knocking its capability. It is one fantastic cartridge.

Agsalaska
May 17, 2013, 12:07 AM
Yes, but you could say the same about the .308, the .30-06, and probably even the 7mm and .300 mags. Is just down to numbers. There are probably at least 100 deer shot in the US for every 1 elk.


Personally, I prefer it over many of the other choices in the same class, but I will freely admit I'm "old school". I don't think the .270 is going to die any time soon, but its probably already passed its hey day and been eclipsed as a hunting round by newer, more trendy cartridges like like the short and super-short magnums.
Yep. I agree with that. I think we are saying the same thing. It will be around for a long time but has probably passed its prime. I am certainly not knocking its capability. It is one fantastic cartridge.

I belong to another site that is mostly folks from Texas. At 36 I am probably one of the older posters on the board. Every year in January we have a 'what did you shot your deer with' thread. I am always amazed at how many cartridges are used that were not even around 20 years ago. There is still plenty of 30-30 30-06 270 243, but probably not as much as there was just ten years ago. There is always a heck of a lot of .223 or 5.56. Of course, I shot mine with a 6.5swede, something a lot of them know nothing about.

CZguy
May 17, 2013, 12:31 AM
I shot mine with a 6.5swede, something a lot of them know nothing about.

The 6.5 MM is a well kept secrete. Mild shooting, extremely accurate. The perfect deer cartridge.

And classy. ;)

TenDriver
May 17, 2013, 01:03 AM
The 6.5 MM is a well kept secrete. Mild shooting, extremely accurate. The perfect deer cartridge.

And classy. ;)

Does it kill a deer any deader than a .270?

50 cal
May 17, 2013, 01:31 AM
When I started this thread, I didn't want to start a debate over calibers. I just think its crazy that there is a shortage on every caliber of rifle ammo in my neck of the woods and several other close states and then there is this pristine beautiful box of 270 every where I go. I just wanted to know why this caliber sucks so much. This isn't my opinion, I'm just seeing whats on the shelf. In my state there isn't anything you can't kill with a 22lr. (two legged or four). Most cartriges I see everywhere are unavailible including the wildcats,but the 270 still remains everywhere I go.

Ed Ames
May 17, 2013, 02:04 AM
It doesn't suck. It's a hunting cartridge. The current rush is mostly centered around non-hunters. The past few years have seen a huge increase in the number of NICS checks (which correlates to gun sales) but there has not been a proportional increase in hunting licenses. Most new gun buyers are going for self defense, training, and "just in case" guns.

Many hunters buy ammo around deer season, which usually means around november. So they bought their box before the latest scare. They also shoot mainly to hunt and some can stretch a box of ammo across many years. That means .270 owners are less likely to have even noticed a shortage of ammo.

JTHunter
May 17, 2013, 02:17 AM
jmr40 said:There isn't any ammo to speak of at a Walmart within 50 miles, but all of the local gunshops are well stocked with anything you want.

Yeah and at ridiculous prices!

TenDriver
May 17, 2013, 02:40 AM
I hadn't thought about the hunting season aspect of it, but you're right. Right before Christmas I scored the last box of 150gr Federal Walmart had in .270. Now they have both 130 and 150 gr loads from more than 1 MFR.

I ended up selling that box and two others shortly thereafter when I decided to sight in for 130gr loads and stay there. The guy I sold it to said he couldn't find it anywhere.

Elkins45
May 17, 2013, 07:43 AM
there's several rounds in the immediate vicinity that do a better job: .280 Rem

Yep. That extra 0.007" of bullet diameter on the same parent case really makes all the difference! :banghead:

It doesn't suck. It's a hunting cartridge. The current rush is mostly centered around non-hunters.

^^^This. Nobody makes a .270 Win that accepts 20 or 30 round magazines.

Bruno2
May 17, 2013, 08:50 AM
They should.

TenDriver
May 17, 2013, 09:08 AM
They should.

Re-barrel a Garand.

Bruno2
May 17, 2013, 10:14 AM
No. Make a .270 with a 30 rnd mag.

JRH6856
May 17, 2013, 10:49 AM
No. Make a .270 with a 30 rnd mag.

Get an AR in 6.8SPC

Ok, it's a different case, but still a .270.

pikid89
May 17, 2013, 11:13 AM
I know a guy that has an AR style rifle that shoots .30-06 using BAR mags....if they can do that, a .270 should be doable too

JRH6856
May 17, 2013, 11:40 AM
OK, here is the question: "Who needs 30 rounds for hunting deer?" :scrutiny:

Ed Ames
May 17, 2013, 11:44 AM
Who says it would be for hunting deer? :scrutiny:

JRH6856
May 17, 2013, 12:31 PM
Who says it would be for hunting deer?

As noted earlier, the .270win is primarily a hunting cartridge. Anything larger than deer and the 30-06 is a better choice. For "tactical" use, there are several cartridges that are better choices which is probably why the .270 isn't used. If I were going to build a tactical rifle for that length cartridge, I would do 30-06.

The .270 for tactical use is the 6.8SPC which is designed for the AR-15 platform and has 30 round mags.

When other ammo is available, there probably isn't much use for the .270 other than for hunting deer. Deer season is a long way off so there it should be no surprise that there is .270win on the shelves. The same is true for any cartridge used predominately for hunting.

Ed Ames
May 17, 2013, 12:42 PM
:rolleyes:

Yeah, go back and check the author on post #60.

But...

1) There is a famous quote about the .270 as a coyote round.
2) In many areas, hunters of wild/feral pigs prefer higher capacity magazines.
3) The very fact that you (or most people) wouldn't do a thing is incentive for others to do it.

JRH6856
May 17, 2013, 02:01 PM
:rolleyes:

Yeah, go back and check the author on post #60.

But...

1) There is a famous quote about the .270 as a coyote round.
2) In many areas, hunters of wild/feral pigs prefer higher capacity magazines.
3) The very fact that you (or most people) wouldn't do a thing is incentive for others to do it.
Oops. Somehow I totally missed #60 :o

And yes, it is a good coyote round. but so are other that are more popular. And I intend to use my 6.8 for pig (higher cap mag and all that)

On a side note, it is interesting that both the .270win and 6.8 SPC are based on obsolete parent cartridges. (30-03 and .30 Remingion).

I've been toying with the idea of necking the 6.8 back up to .308 (.30 Rem SPC?) just because no one else has, but I can't see any real benefit.

Sav .250
May 17, 2013, 02:08 PM
The late Jack O`Conner, will haunt you forever for saying that............

Piper106
May 17, 2013, 06:29 PM
Coupler of things to think about.

A number of countries around the world have limitations on civilians owning firearms chambered for 'military' cartridges. Who knows, that might be the focus the next time Feinstein gets on her broom. The 270 Winchester is not and never been a military caliber.

Second groups trying to 'right size' military cartridges after both World Wars proposed cartridges close to the 270 Winchester. The 276 Peterson (between the world wars, originally planned for the Garand rifle) and the 280 British cartridge (shortly after WW2) both were sized to propel a 140 grain bullet at 2450 fps or so. Those ballistics are well within the capablity of the 270 Winchester.

Maybe we just need to re-name it something fancy, like the 6.8 OC (O'Conner).

Millwright
May 17, 2013, 09:23 PM
Interesting to see so many "negative vibes" on a caliber that has a long and distinguished pedigree ! The .270 was a favorite of the likes of Cooper, Rourak, Bell and others with African experience.

Opinions are like nether orifices; we all got one. Personally, I'll take the word of the cited users owning the BTDT badge on the utility/versatality of the .270 cartridge against any game. That its fallen out of the gun media "limelight" doesn't change its excellent ballistic performance. >MW

JRH6856
May 17, 2013, 11:38 PM
While I have seen many experienced and respected writers recommend the .270 for any North American game, I am aware of no one who suggested it might be a good choice for rhino, cape buffalo or elephant.

Ed Ames
May 17, 2013, 11:50 PM
And yet the 6.5x54 Mannlicher-Schoenauer, firing 160gr bullets at around 2200fps, was used extensively on elephant back in the day.

JRH6856
May 17, 2013, 11:55 PM
Yes, it was. And I'm sure the .270 has been used as well. I've just never seen it recommended as a calaber of choice.

Powder burn
May 18, 2013, 12:10 AM
It's just that I have 300 rounds handloaded and neck sized for the "weatherby" Howa 1500. i also have 160 new rounds. Why would I pay the new inflated prices? The rifle seems to shoot right at 1moa regardless of the ammo I try. Then again I only tried Remington ammo. Seems to get the job done.

I lucked out and got 200 rounds of norma tactical from Midsouth shooters fur 19.00 a box just as my order for 500 prepped military .308 cases and 1000 147gr bullets came in that was ordered early January.
I was at wal mart tonight. Not much activity except for fishing lures. Central NC area.

orionengnr
May 18, 2013, 12:11 AM
If You were a new would-be gun owner, and walked into a shop today, looking for a deer gun, would the average store guide you to a .270?
Well, for starters, not being a deity, I do not deserve the capitalized "You".

That aside, and to answer your question directly...probably not. And these days, since the Internet is available, I would do my own research, and would probably not put too much stock in what a gun store monkey had to say.

But it has been an awful lot of years since I was a first-time rifle purchaser. And when I was, the 30-06 was King and there was no Prince. And yes, I capitalized "King" intentionally. :)

Bottom line--the .270 is far from worthless...and if you are starting today, it is a great choice. But if you (like me) have many years of 30-06 shooting, many rounds of 30-06 ammo, many empty 30-06 cartridges to load, and dies for 30-06...I have to admit...I have no use or desire for a .270.

lefteye
May 18, 2013, 12:20 AM
Interesting thread. I suspect the thread would have been much different 30 to 40 years ago. The .270 is, in fact, based on the .30-06 but is slightly longer to prevent accidental chambering in a .30-06 rifle. The cartridge is fine for any big game in the lower 48 including elk. I've taken coyote, black bear, pronghorn, whitetail and mule deer with mine, including a 163"+ mule deer at well over 400 yards. I've never fired a factory loaded cartridge in my .270. In my opinion the .270 is an excellent and slightly lighter recoiling version of a .30-06. The .280 is a tiny bit better, and the .280 AI is one more notch better. Of course this is all splitting hairs. The .25-06 is the smallest member of the club but I wouldn't prefer it for elk.

Agsalaska
May 18, 2013, 12:31 AM
Interesting to see so many "negative vibes" on a caliber that has a long and distinguished pedigree ! The .270 was a favorite of the likes of Cooper, Rourak, Bell and others with African experience.

Opinions are like nether orifices; we all got one. Personally, I'll take the word of the cited users owning the BTDT badge on the utility/versatality of the .270 cartridge against any game. That its fallen out of the gun media "limelight" doesn't change its excellent ballistic performance. >MW
I don't think it is 'negative vibes' as much as it is the current reality and future trends. Nobody is doubting the capability of the 270, especially compared to the more 'modern' replacements on the market. It's just that it's probably reached it's high water market and has begun the very slow trek towards being marginalized. Ten years ago gun shops in my art of the country couldnt keep a 270 rifle in stock. Now it's semi automatic 'platforms' and bolt actions shooting more 'modern' cartridges. None are actually better at killing a deer though.

JRH6856
May 18, 2013, 12:40 AM
The .270 is, in fact, based on the .30-06 but is slightly longer to prevent accidental chambering in a .30-06 rifle.

As has been stated earlier, the .270 Winchester's parent case is the .30-03, not the .30-06. The .30-06 was made with a shorter shoulder than the .30-03 so that the 30-03 will not chamber in a 30-06. The .270 inherited this longer shoulder which is why it will not chamber on a 30-06 and this may be the reason the 30-03 was chosen as the parent.

lefteye
May 18, 2013, 01:06 AM
My old Speer (1981) and Hornady (1980) reloading manuals both state that the .270 Win is based on a necked down .30-06. I don't dispute your statement that it is based on a .30-03. I have read, but don't recall the sources, that the .270 shoulder is further forward specifically to prevent accidental chambering in a .30-06.

JRH6856
May 18, 2013, 01:34 AM
The .30-06 is based on the 30-03 with the difference being a shorter shoulder on the 30-06 and some sources may have assumed a logical progression on to the .270. But the shoulder of the 270 and the 30-03 are the same, so if the 30-06 shoulder was lengthened to make the 270, all that did was recreate the original 30-03 parent case to be necked down to 270. So either way you describe it, the 30-03 is still the parent of both the 30-06 and the 270.

lefteye
May 18, 2013, 01:26 PM
JRH - Wikipedia confirms you are exactly correct. I noticed the Wikipedia page on the .30-03 was edited just before midnight yesterday. Just curious - did you edit the page, and if so, what did you change or add? I do appreciate your expertise. Thank you.

Ed Ames
May 18, 2013, 01:37 PM
Hah, that's just funny...

http://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=.270_Winchester&action=history

Wikipedia contributor 'JRH' changed the parent cartridge yesterday. But.. The parent cartridge has been going back and forth for years in that history. Some people want it to be '03 so they change it, but they never cite a source. Other people switch it back to '06 because the '03 crowd doesn't have a source or reference to back up the '03 claim.

lefteye
May 18, 2013, 02:44 PM
Interesting/entertaining. :confused:

loose noose
May 18, 2013, 03:43 PM
I've got a Remington BDL in .270 and have been reloading for it for at least 35 years. It's taken quite a few deer, not to mention elk, however, in all the years I've owned it I doubt I've shot much over 100 rounds thru it outside of the sighting in just before season. I also own a 30-06 which I loaned to my yougest son to hunt deer with me a time or two. I've also been reloading for that for at least 40 years. Thank God they still have ammo available for them, as my youngest son can't seem to remember to take his ammo with him.

JRH6856
May 18, 2013, 04:01 PM
I did make two changes to the 270 Winchester wiki page (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/270_Winchester), changing 30-06 to 30-03 in order to maintain internal consistency with the final paragraph which reads:

"While it is true that a .270 Winchester case can be formed from a 30-06 Springfield case, the case length of a 30-06 is 2.494 inches (63.3 mm) while the case length of a .270 is 2.540 inches (64.5 mm), the same as a .30-03 Springfield. It is recommended that .270 Winchester brass be formed from .35 Whelen or .280 Remington cases"

And the last sentence of 30-03 (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/30-03) page which I have not edited at any time but which reads:

"The .270 Winchester cartridge was based on reducing the neck diameter of a .30-03 cartridge case to retain a similar bullet-holding length with the same shoulder."

The .270 Winchester case dimensions are the same as the .30-03 except for neck diameter. The .30-06 has both a shorter case length and a shorter neck than both the .30-03 and the .270 Winchester. But if anyone wants to maintain that the 270 was made by returning the .30-06 to .30-03 dimensions before necking down, go ahead. I've seen wilder theories.

Some people want it to be '03 so they change it, but they never cite a source. Other people switch it back to '06 because the '03 crowd doesn't have a source or reference to back up the '03 claim.

Yeah, the '03 crowd relies on the evidence cited. The '06 crowd just cites someone else making the same unsubstantiated claim. Doesn't really matter. The '03 is the parent of the '06 so if it is not the parent of the .270, it is the grandparent.

savanahsdad
May 18, 2013, 04:35 PM
some stores I see 270's there and others I don't , wait tell Nov. and see what happens !
Back in 2008 ,just before hunting season I got a call from a friend , she had given her Ruger carbine RS, to the grandson a few years before, for deer hunting, her son-inlaw called her and said he couldn't find any 44mag ?? she then called me ,being the only real gun guy they knew , and asked what the deal was ?.... I said been that way all year , but I could help out the grandson , two days later I got another call , her son-inlaw needed 270win too , yep I got lots too,
there whole family are big hunters , no reloaders , or real shooters they hunt with 44mag, 270win's, 32win spl, 243win's and a 308 , none of them saw it comeing or knew what had already happen,
about 12 years back I read the 270win had out-sold all other guns for the first time ,(for that year) so you can bet most of those guns will see the woods this fall , then see whats left on the shelves,

jimmyraythomason
May 18, 2013, 11:21 PM
While it is true that a .270 Winchester case can be formed from a 30-06 Springfield case, the case length of a 30-06 is 2.494 inches (63.3 mm) while the case length of a .270 is 2.540 inches (64.5 mm), the same as a .30-03 Springfield. It is recommended that .270 Winchester brass be formed from .35 Whelen or .280 Remington cases"
And yet the same headspace guages are used for the .270,30.06 and .35 Whelen.

Bruno2
May 18, 2013, 11:25 PM
Hah, that's just funny...

http://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?...action=history

Wikipedia contributor 'JRH' changed the parent cartridge yesterday:D:eek::D

JRH6856
May 18, 2013, 11:30 PM
And yet the same headspace guages are used for the .270,30.06 and .35 Whelen.
Because they headspace on the shoulder and on all three, the base to shoulder dimension are the same. The 30-03 could use the same headspace gauge for the same reason. As noted, the difference is in the overall case length.

Bill4282
May 19, 2013, 03:10 AM
If there was a semi-auto or AR in .270, it too would scarce. What I see on the shelves are bolt-action calibers and no semi.

Chris-bob
May 19, 2013, 03:21 AM
Just to prove you wrong, I bought the last three boxes at my LGS. ;)

CB900F
May 19, 2013, 11:36 AM
Fella's;

In all actuality, the parent cartridge is the 8X57mm Mauser. That's where the .473" head diameter, extractor groove dimensions, and base diameter measurements originally came from. The .30-06, .30-03, and therefore the .270, share those critical numbers that Peter Paul Mauser first laid down.

900F

JRH6856
May 19, 2013, 02:32 PM
Fella's;

In all actuality, the parent cartridge is the 8X57mm Mauser. That's where the .473" head diameter, extractor groove dimensions, and base diameter measurements originally came from. The .30-06, .30-03, and therefore the .270, share those critical numbers that Peter Paul Mauser first laid down.

900F
And the parent case of the 8 mm Mauser (7.92x57) was the M/88.

The M/88 was also the case that was the model for the 30-03. It could not have been the 8mm Mauser as it was released in 1905. It was the 8mm using a 150gr spitzer bullet that made the 30-03 with its 220gr round nose bullet obsolete and was the impetus for the .30-06.

The real disagreement is not about the parentage of the .270 Win, it is about whether the .30-03 is a seperate cartridge or just the first stage of development of the .30-06. The thing is, almost no one has heard of the 30-03 or even cares that it once existed. IT was around for 3 years. Only two rifles were chambered for it. The 1895 Winchester didn't sell well and the almost all of the '03 Springfields were rechambered to 30-06.

So most writers, editors, and many historians rather than recognizing the 30-03 as a distinct cartridge, consider the 30-03 to be a preliminary form of the 30-06 with the 30-06 being the final design and thus the parent cartridge of all that came after. That would be fine if the 30-03 had been strictly a military round that became the 30-06 in final form. But it was not. It was released commercially with a commercial rifle chambered for it for the civilian market. That makes the 30-06 a separate cartridge from the 30-06, albeit a short lived one.

To make matters worse, the is/was a .270-06 wildcat. It is a 30-06 necked down to .270, but other than the difference in case length and neck length, there is no difference in the case, but the '03 and 270 chamber is cut with a longer (2.880) throat than the '06 chamber (2.7442) and a 270-06 in a 270 Win chamber will lose accuracy and suffer greater throat erosion. Same as a 30-06 in a 30-03 chamber in a 1895 Winchester.

It's real simple: the 30-03, .270 Winchester, and .280 Remington cases are 2.54" long. The .30-06, .35 Whelen, 338-06 A-Square and .25-06 cases are 2.494" long. We know for certain that the 30-03 was shortened to make the 30-06, We know for certain that the .270 Win case is 2.54 inches. If they started with the 30-06 to make the 270, the first thing they did was turn the 30-06 case into a 30-03 case, then neck it down to .270. The moment the 30-06 case is turned into a 30-03 case, the 30-03 becomes the parent case of the 270.

But the M/88 is the granddaddy. ;)

savanahsdad
May 19, 2013, 04:49 PM
so were there and 30-03's on the shelves ??:what::) I didn't see any on the shelf at Cabela's (Billings MT) I did see 270's , 308's , 223/5.56 , 7mm-08, 260rem , 223wssm, 25wssm, 7mmWSM, 300WSM and most other hunting cal's, No rim-fires, and almost No hand gun stuff and no primers,

I guess I will add this to my list of why I love my 270win's "if they sell ammo , then they will have some 270win"


:):)

CB900F
May 19, 2013, 05:43 PM
Fella's;

And Frank Barnes in "Cartridges Of The World" 4th edition, page 62, shows both of them as the "8mm Mauser (8 X 57 JS)", listed under one title. With the same base dimensions.

Which is nit-picking, but nonetheless accurate. And makes no difference as to the place of the .270 in the shooter's world. It's still the red-headed step child of the .30-06.

900F

JRH6856
May 19, 2013, 05:45 PM
so were there and 30-03's on the shelves ?? I didn't see any on the shelf at Cabela's

You might check in the antique gun room. They may have a box along with an 1895 Winchester chambered for it. ;)

JRH6856
May 19, 2013, 05:59 PM
Fella's;

And Frank Barnes in "Cartridges Of The World" 4th edition, page 62, shows both of them as the "8mm Mauser (8 X 57 JS), listed under one title. With the same base dimensions.

Which is nit-picking, but nonetheless accurate. And makes no difference as to the place of the .270 in the shooter's world. It's still the red-headed step child of the .30-06.

900F

True, the cartridges are essentially the same with different bullets. The changes from the M/88 to the 8mm (7.92x57) were mostly to the chamber and rifling, not the case.

And the .270 Winchester is still the child of the .30-03 :banghead:, as is it's brother, the .280 Remington. (might as well open all the cans of worms)

non2os13
May 19, 2013, 11:04 PM
I sure don't shoot much .270. My 700 is my main hunting gun, but it is not a pleasant gun to take to the range or fire more than to sight in the scope.

au01st
May 19, 2013, 11:09 PM
I've bought a few boxes the last few times at the store because it's the only thing regularly available that I shoot. This of course means that I'm shooting it more at the range and my groups are tightening up, meaning more precise, humane, shots during deer season. I think this is a good thing.

Bruno2
May 19, 2013, 11:16 PM
Every deer hunterin my neck of the woods shoots either 30-06 or .270. I don't know why either. I would assume that your average deer hunter isn't an avid gun enthusiast or caliber geek. They just shoot something popular. I understand believe me, but most guys in "the know" shoot something a little more specialized.

lefteye
May 19, 2013, 11:51 PM
I'm curious. What cartridge is "more specialized" for deer than a .270 Win? By asking this question I am not suggesting a .270 Win is suitable only for deer nor am I suggesting there are no other cartridges suitable for deer. Deer are commonly hunted with rifle cartridges ranging from .243 Win to 7mm Rem Mag, as well as smaller and larger cartridges.

Bruno2
May 19, 2013, 11:55 PM
I am just saying there are more exotic cartridges than the .270. The .270 is like a plain wheat toast round (not saying its a bad cartridge). Now .307 win or 7mm shooting times eastern is a little more exotic than 30-06 Springfield or .270 Winchester.

JRH6856
May 19, 2013, 11:57 PM
Some might say the 30-30. I know it is often claimed that it has killed more deer than any other cartridge. But that is not to say the .270 is not a better choice. A lot depends on the distances involved.

CZguy
May 20, 2013, 01:08 AM
I know it is often claimed that it has killed more deer than any other cartridge.

My Grandfather said that during the great depression, more deer where killed in Missouri by the .22 short, than any other cartridge.

JRH6856
May 20, 2013, 02:42 AM
^^^ OK. make that legally killed... ;)

Sentryau2
May 20, 2013, 08:15 PM
Its a good gun, atleast good enough for what i did with it. Pest control before i had the 5.56 and was my go to deer gun. I got tired of paying 25$ for a box of ammo (this was 2 years ago! imagine that, walmart in this area is always over priced) Took several deer with it and a few hogs. The rifles can get a bit heavy (mine was a Winchester model 70) weighed around 11pounds (heavy barrel, walnut stock) I have had a few guns in my short life time (compared to most of yalls) .270 model 70, .308 savage axis, .30-06 savage axis and a .22-250. (bolt guns in order of preference)

lefteye
May 20, 2013, 11:17 PM
Bruno, Your last two posts suggest hunters in "the know" in Oklahoma prefer lever action rifles (which shoot the .307 and 7mm STE, the lever action versions of the .308 and 7mm-08) and these cartridges are "more specialized." I certainly don't dispute that lever action versions of the .308 and 7mm-08 are "specialized". I assume in "the know" means experienced Oklahoma deer hunters. I am really curious why experienced Oklahoma deer hunters would prefer lever action rifles rather than bolt action rifles chambered for a .270, .308, or .30-06 for deer hunting in Oklahoma (or any state west of the Mississippi River.)

Bruno2
May 20, 2013, 11:32 PM
No, I am saying more shooter, specialized. A lot of hunters just go with what the guy at the LGS recommends or what their dad hunts with and that's the long and short of their shooting escapades. I am just saying someone with more firearm pizazz!

JRH6856
May 20, 2013, 11:55 PM
I think most guys go with whatever fills the freezer.

rduchateau2954
May 21, 2013, 05:36 AM
I have a .270 and love it but it's $1 a round for cheap stuff. I shoot my rifle every time I got out, but it's 10-20 rounds of .270, 100-300 rounds of 9mm, and 300-500 rounds of .22.

Robert
May 21, 2013, 09:20 AM
Based on the availability to find ammo on the shelf my 375H&H must be worthless too... 5 pages is enough for this one.

If you enjoyed reading about "The 270 has to be worthless!" here in TheHighRoad.org archive, you'll LOVE our community. Come join TheHighRoad.org today for the full version!