My day at school


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wannabeagunsmith
May 16, 2013, 05:47 PM
So, I go to a public high school. Today, a new book for us to read in english called Fallen Angles. It is an anti-Vietnam War book, no surprise, being as we have a very liberal school and this isn't the first bit of indoctrination we have received. Anyhow, so before we read the book my teacher deciedes to go on a bit of a political rant about the war that happened decades ago basically saying America is stupid for wanting to stop the spread of communism and that if the people of Vietnam wanted it, who were we to try and stop them (never mind the fact that the people of the south didn't want it at all for obvious reasons)! This isn't the end however, and soon it was time to go over 'military terms' that we would happen across in the book. So he starts talking about the weapons of 'nam and then he gets to the M-16. He says, in his words, "the M16 is an assault rifle that fires semi-automatically, which means that if you hold down the trigger, bullets will keep firing until the clip is empty." SO I raised my hand to try and set him straight but he IGNORED me and went on to the next item, which was 'clip'. Well as you can guess, it should have been phrased MAGAZINE but to hell with it I suppose. Anyhow, that was my day. I am really glad I have autoshop for the last half of the day so I don't have to deal with their crap all day long. I am not looking forward to the future when my classmates run the country..that is for sure.

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SharpsDressedMan
May 16, 2013, 05:54 PM
Care to share the location of your school, so we can send some Vet Nam Vets to talk to your teacher?

Texan Scott
May 16, 2013, 06:01 PM
^ THIS, YES. *popcorn* VIDEO PLEASE!

(Waiting for this to tie into the "Who's carrying a walking cane?" thread). :D

armoredman
May 16, 2013, 06:21 PM
Oh, now that WOULD be fun to watch!:D

BBQJOE
May 16, 2013, 06:44 PM
I'm not sure why, but I must tell this story.
I had a Vietnam vet for an English teacher when I was in 8th or 9th grade.
He was one of those who might not have returned in 100% condition. I liked him, and trusted him very much.
He once told us, and I'll never forget this, that the M-16 was as powerful as a bulldozer. If you got hit by it only on a finger, it would knock you down, or rip your arm off.

I was so impressed by this fact, that I had to relate it to my Father.
My father asked me: if you had your finger run into by a bulldozer, do you think you would fall down?
Of course I answered no.

I have often wondered why he told us that.

12many
May 16, 2013, 07:01 PM
I took a summer college class titled History of Vietnam Conflict. I figured it would be interesting. It was, only not for the reason I figured.

It was taught by a commie red professor who loved the viet cong and hated the USA. Everything USA was bad. The books were interesting, but everytime he opened his mouth is was anti-USA.

There was guy in the class who had family in the military or had family that served in vietnam and it often spiraled down to a shouting match or back and forth insults. He would call the professor a communist and viet cong sympathizer. :p:p

Hang in their. It will be over soon. Maybe you can go to college and be a teacher and do a better job.

Resist Evil
May 16, 2013, 07:25 PM
A wonderful (?) film on the subject of the Vietnam War is entitled Hearts and Minds (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hearts_and_Minds_%28film%29) that was required viewing for a sociology (my major) class at the Univ. of Calif. at Santa Barbara circa 1974-75.

It was a very effective anti-war propaganda piece for a fatally-impressionable doofus like me.

That was a day at school for me.

mac66
May 16, 2013, 07:39 PM
The mature thing to do is to write a note to your teacher explaining that his lecture was fascinating and in fact, inspired you to find out more about what he was talking about. Having done so, you learned that some of his facts were misstated. You then provide the correct facts with the understanding that he would want to clarify to the class what he said for the sake of historical accuracy. Make sure though that if you call him out on his mistakes, you are correct in your facts. He probably won't like it or correct it but he probably will be more inclined to check his facts the next time knowing that someone is paying attention.

Be polite and make sure your note is properly written and punctually correct. Most important be right with your facts. and be able to defend your facts with sources.

InkEd
May 16, 2013, 09:58 PM
Wear a shirt with Nixon on it.

r1derbike
May 17, 2013, 12:13 AM
I'm not sure why, but I must tell this story.
I had a Vietnam vet for an English teacher when I was in 8th or 9th grade.
He was one of those who might not have returned in 100% condition. I liked him, and trusted him very much.
He once told us, and I'll never forget this, that the M-16 was as powerful as a bulldozer. If you got hit by it only on a finger, it would knock you down, or rip your arm off.

I was so impressed by this fact, that I had to relate it to my Father.
My father asked me: if you had your finger run into by a bulldozer, do you think you would fall down?
Of course I answered no.

I have often wondered why he told us that.Ah, grasshopper! It was wise proverb, "stay out of way of bulldozers".

Honest John
May 17, 2013, 12:16 AM
Frankly, a burn based on the differences between a clip and a magazine and semi-automatic action and fully-automatic action would have been boring and irrelevant in a high school history class. You would have been better off engaging in a discussion of whether or not the intervention in Vietnam's civil war was a good idea in theory and execution. If your teacher does not want to have such a discussion, then you might have a grievance.

dacavasi
May 17, 2013, 12:27 AM
Somewhat-related story: Back in the mid-60's I had a 5th grade 'science' teacher who, while describing the properties of plain cotton one day, claimed that it was the stuff used in bulletproof vests, and that a cotton ball would stop a bullet! I was in the Junior Rifle Club at the time and I told him in front of the whole class he was dead wrong, but he insisted that he was correct. So I took a few cotton balls to my regular Monday night club shoot, stuck one on the target hanger, reeled it out 50', and shot a hole through it with my .22. Took it to show him the next day and he insisted that I must have 'drilled' the hole! He simply wouldn't get off his crazy notion that plain cotton was bulletproof. There is an excellent book on this topic, "Lies My Teacher Told Me". I can't recall the author but it is a great read for those so inclined...

Honest John
May 17, 2013, 12:32 AM
James W. Loewen, and the book dealt more with matters that the Texas Board of Education would find disagreeable than with with whether cotton balls could stop .22 bullets. :)

wannabeagunsmith
May 17, 2013, 12:50 AM
I must be the only teenager in the world who dosent have a phone so no video :(

twofifty
May 17, 2013, 12:51 AM
Some teachers -ok, many teachers- live in a special world where their notions are seldom challenged. If they think it, they are right.

Honest John
May 17, 2013, 01:00 AM
It's easy for teachers to live in a world where their notions don't get challenged if no one challenges them. And I'm not talking about the difference between a clip and a magazine.

Outlaw Man
May 17, 2013, 11:15 AM
There was a science teacher at my high school that firmly believed the moon landing was staged, and his evidence was that you can't see the flag from Earth...

Fortunately, my history teachers were fairly bright. My US History teacher probably would have loved a discussion on weapons terminology.

It takes all kinds, I guess.

45_auto
May 17, 2013, 11:49 AM
Teachers are just like posters on THR, engineers, politicians, and everyone else in the world.

Some are smart, some aren't.

Twiki357
May 18, 2013, 02:09 AM
This reminded my of a teacher I had in the 5th or 6th grade, in 1952 +/- a year. He was a WWII vet and frequently told some "mild" war stories. The one thing that has always stuck in my mind was when he spent most of one day teaching us the mechanics of the 30 cal machine gun. Somehow, I don't that would fly today.

PavePusher
May 18, 2013, 04:06 AM
Teachers are just like posters on THR, engineers, politicians, and everyone else in the world.

Some are smart, some aren't.
Hey!! I resent the insinuation you made there... I mean... Ummmm... disregard....

:scrutiny: :uhoh: :D

AlexanderA
May 18, 2013, 08:05 AM
Unfortunately, the teaching profession generally seems to attract some of the least competent people. As the saying goes, "Those that can, do. Those that can't, teach." That said, I found out very early in my academic career that's there's no percentage in correcting teachers. Just parrot the misinformation, get your grades, and move on. It's a game of "ticket punching" and has very little to do with real life. You get your revenge when you're making 2-3 times more money than your former teachers.

DSling
May 18, 2013, 08:14 AM
Frankly, a burn based on the differences between a clip and a magazine and semi-automatic action and fully-automatic action would have been boring and irrelevant in a high school history class. You would have been better off engaging in a discussion of whether or not the intervention in Vietnam's civil war was a good idea in theory and execution. If your teacher does not want to have such a discussion, then you might have a grievance.

I wasn't allowed too open my mouth in history class. Looking at the way kids are now they do not want thinkers. She told my classmate that his question was along the lines of "the chicken and the egg." That no-one could really answer it. So I raised my hand answered her quotation and asked her to answer his. Then I got kicked out because I disrupted her class with the question. Welcome to the liberal agenda.

BrotherFrankie
May 18, 2013, 08:43 AM
Wear a shirt with Nixon on it.
i still have my nixon buttons...

jonnyc
May 18, 2013, 08:54 AM
"Unfortunately, the teaching profession generally seems to attract some of the least competent people."

Fortunately, that's a truly ignorant supposition.

allaroundhunter
May 18, 2013, 09:01 AM
Let's see, about 7 years ago I also had to read this book in a public high school for my sophomore English class. The day that we started it my teacher brought her father (a Vietnam veteran) in to tell a couple stories that were similar to the themes that we would encounter in the book.

About halfway through one of his stories our principal (a very liberal woman) walked in and cut him off and told our teacher that he had to leave. Fortunately, our teacher knew this would happen and had already invited the district superintendent (another Vietnam veteran) to sit-in on the class. He stood up and told our principal that she needed to take a seat because there were lessons being told that she also needed to learn. I'm also sure that they had a nice chat afterwards ;)

sota
May 18, 2013, 09:07 AM
There was a science teacher at my high school that firmly believed the moon landing was staged, and his evidence was that you can't see the flag from Earth...

you know in high school I knew plenty of geometry to be able to show mathematically how that was impossible. but then I was (and still am!) a definitive geek! :D

actually, it pains me to think that I had classmates that couldn't perform that relatively simple computation. When I think back to how much geeks are derided it saddens me to realize they wanted to remain stupid (ignorant would be the wrong word here. they were stupid by choice.)

rock on to the "smart" people! hopefully we can take back this country someday.

larryh1108
May 18, 2013, 09:20 AM
Sadly, these stories are why our gun rights are in serious trouble in the generation of our young children. Right now you get suspended or expelled for making a "gun" out of your thumb and forefinger. If you tell your fellow students that you went shooting with your dad over the weekend, you get the gun police knocking on your door, etc. In our schools today, guns are shown as evil and used for only bad things. When these kids graduate college and shape our future, they will remember that guns are for bad people as they were taught in school. We may not be around to see this happen but it's already in the works and it's only a matter of time. It's a shame what our country has become.

230RN
May 18, 2013, 09:24 AM
Oh, that propagandizing in schools started looong before.

I remember in about my sixth grade back in the mid to late forties, a certain Civics teacher telling us about the incredibly high incomes of the Captains of Industry, like Ford, Rockefeller, and the many people who had made fortunes during the Second World War, like Boeing, Sperry, Hughes, etc.

I remember him rhetoricallly asking "Who needs to earn $50,000 a year? Where can you spend it all?" and going on about how any income higher than that should be taxed and distributed to the poor."

I carried that fallacy with me for years until I got into college and someone urged me to read some of Ayn Rand's work and I finally saw another perspective on "income redistribution."

I'm not a real "Randian" nowadays, but her work gave me a different perspective.

Oh, that teacher? He became the Principal of the school not long after.

And so the propaganda propagates.

Terry, 230RN

yzguy87
May 18, 2013, 09:34 AM
It doesn't take all kinds, we just have all kinds!

Taurus 617 CCW
May 18, 2013, 10:00 AM
If I had to go back to high school today I don't think I would survive. Mainly because I am too opinionated and I am not afraid to speak up. Also being a gunsmith, I would not be able to talk about or share my interests with fellow classmates.

HOOfan_1
May 18, 2013, 10:40 AM
I took a summer college class titled History of Vietnam Conflict. I figured it would be interesting. It was, only not for the reason I figured.

It was taught by a commie red professor who loved the viet cong and hated the USA. Everything USA was bad. The books were interesting, but everytime he opened his mouth is was anti-USA.
.

ON 9/11/01 I was in my Indian history class (South Asia history professor) around noon or so, that was where I learned about the attacks (although I had been seeing girls crying all over grounds between classes). The professor said "don't jump to conclusions"....oh well.

Later in October, when it was clear we were going to invade Afghanistan he said "The British were not successful and the Russians were not successful, and neither will the US be successful in invading Afghanistan."

I wanted to point out that Alexander the Great had been pretty successful though...not to mention the fact that he was lucky he was in the US, because if he made a statement that the Taliban would not be successful against the US while he was in Afghanistan, they would lop his head off for sedition.

RetiredUSNChief
May 18, 2013, 10:53 AM
You know, sometime in the very near future, I'm going back to college to take the handful of courses I need to complete a degree. And I've very much considered taking some extra electives that I don't need, just for the pure enjoyment of both the electives AND the experence in a liberal setting.

And when I take those extra classes, I do so hope to get just such an instructor as you described, wannabeagunsmith. I would have so much fun and the beauty of it is that they can't hold a thing over my head for it. The courses won't matter for my degree and I'm not some poor student whose whole future hangs in the balance on the grade they issue. And I'm darn well not afraid to take any of my work up for review by anybody on the merits of the course material we're supposed to be graded on.

:evil:

gmofftarki
May 18, 2013, 10:55 AM
There was a science teacher at my high school that firmly believed the moon landing was staged, and his evidence was that you can't see the flag from Earth...

Fortunately, my history teachers were fairly bright. My US History teacher probably would have loved a discussion on weapons terminology.

It takes all kinds, I guess.

I had a teacher for AP Chemistry and Physics, with a Ph.D from the Massachusetts Institute of Technology, who didn't "believe" in evolution. He pointed to all sorts of evidence, like the similarity of the eye between creatures who had, by all accounts, diverged from one another long before the eye had developed nearly as far as it had already. This was also several years before scientists had had the ability to show that it was possible for a completely new trait to develop in a single generation through (artificial) natural selection in a lab environment, something that greatly increased the plausibility of evolution (the study in question took place in 2k7 or thereabouts, and was based on getting E.coli to generate the necessary enzymes to metabolize a new sort of sugar)

What do I think about him today? Honestly, speaking as a scientist, that was probably the most useful science class I ever had.

He's wrong, of course, but it got every student in the class to actually think his or her own way through the problem and draw his or her own conclusion. Critical thinking is a rare skill, in any field, and he managed to jumpstart it in 20 kids or so.

Granted, one of those kids in that class became Michelle Obama's press secretary, so I guess it didn't "take" for each one of them.

RetiredUSNChief
May 18, 2013, 11:21 AM
Let's see, about 7 years ago I also had to read this book in a public high school for my sophomore English class. The day that we started it my teacher brought her father (a Vietnam veteran) in to tell a couple stories that were similar to the themes that we would encounter in the book.

About halfway through one of his stories our principal (a very liberal woman) walked in and cut him off and told our teacher that he had to leave. Fortunately, our teacher knew this would happen and had already invited the district superintendent (another Vietnam veteran) to sit-in on the class. He stood up and told our principal that she needed to take a seat because there were lessons being told that she also needed to learn. I'm also sure that they had a nice chat afterwards ;)


An object lesson in not only picking your battles, but choosing and setting up the battlefield conditions. Sun Tzu would have been proud.

:):)

herrwalther
May 18, 2013, 11:30 AM
I have no problems with teachers who are antis. Or anyone for that matter. You have your stance on how things should be done and I have mine. But the second you start shoving your ideals about right and wrong down a child's throat without presenting both sides of the argument, you lose respect. I had a great teacher in high school. HATED guns. I loved them. He never brought his personal opinions into the class curriculum.

Piratesailor
May 18, 2013, 12:25 PM
OP, in glad you are so aware of the truth and reality. I would not encourage you to write any letters but put it on your parents. Keeps you out of the fray. You will not change people like that. Don't waste your breath.

There is an old saying. Those that can't, teach. It's an unfortunate but true saying in many cases within our educational system.

loose noose
May 18, 2013, 03:07 PM
In the mid 70's I was taking a Police Community Relations Class at a small Southern California JC.

At the time I had about 6 years on the Police Force, and our Instructor was very liberal type. Needless to say we locked horns a number of times, but when all was said and done I came away with an A.:D

jonnyc
May 18, 2013, 09:29 PM
"There is an old saying. Those that can't, teach. It's an unfortunate but true saying in many cases within our educational system."

Another foolish, ignorant, anti-teacher post.
Do you folks honestly believe that all teachers are a bunch of bumbling, incompetent, communist buffoons??? You'd think it's just blind luck, or perhaps "intelligent design", that humans ever left caves! As in any profession there are some bad eggs, but fortunately for you, your parents, your children, and your grandchildren, the vast majority of public school teachers are intelligent, competent, and very adept at subsuming our individual biases.

BobTheTomato
May 18, 2013, 10:40 PM
What you should really be doing is withdrawing your consent and homeschooling your kids.

OneWound
May 18, 2013, 10:49 PM
What you should really be doing is withdrawing your consent and homeschooling your kids.
Not necessarily, my high school is more pro gun then any things. Save couple kids, we all have the same general view point. Including most teachers.

BobTheTomato
May 19, 2013, 09:42 AM
Homeschooling children - Yeah that's the answer. Having inexperienced and unqualified people teach young minds.

Inexperienced and unqualified? Last time I checked home schooled children vastly outperform those from public school. Detroit and other inner cities are so lucky they have "qualified people" teaching. I guess that's why a large portion of of high school graduates can't read.

My point is so many people complain about how their children's head are filled full of horrible unamerican ideals but they don't consider taking them out of school. It is the best way to control how your kids are raised. When you hand them over to a public school system what do you really expect them to learn.

45_auto
May 19, 2013, 11:55 AM
In our schools today, guns are shown as evil and used for only bad things. When these kids graduate college and shape our future, they will remember that guns are for bad people as they were taught in school.

So what are you and all the rest of the posters whining about what is taught in school doing about it?

Are you under some local restrictions that prevent you from becoming involved in our education system?

Start an after-school high school shooting club, history club, shop club, etc. If nothing else get involved doing ANYTHING and the kids will naturally want to discuss your interests and ideas.

I've mentored a high school robotic team (about 50 students) that designs and builds a robot for competition every year for 8 years now. We use my shop for the design and build, which is also used for most of the local AK47, 1919, FAL builds etc. There's always tons of gun parts lying around. We've done club shoots as well as Appleseeds. All the kids in the club can field strip and re-assemble an AR15, 1911, Glock, 1919, Vickers, or 1910 Maxim quicker than most adults. The exposure naturally leads to questions about how they were used and why. We've got the typical mix of liberals and anti-gunners for teachers and parents, but it's hard for them to argue when the kids are being taught safety and responsibility along with the mechanical functioning of the machines.

Whining about it on the internet isn't going to change anything.

MistWolf
May 19, 2013, 12:01 PM
One of my great regrets in life is not asking a certain teacher in high school why he was lying to us.

As far as some views about evolution, religion and home schooling vs public schooling- it's plain that some folks just don't get it

So what are you and all the rest of the posters whining about what is taught in school doing about it?

Are you under some local restrictions that prevent you from becoming involved in our education system?

Start an after-school high school shooting club, history club, shop club, etc. If nothing else get involved doing ANYTHING and the kids will naturally want to discuss your interests and ideas.

I've mentored a high school robotic team (about 50 students) that designs and builds a robot for competition every year for 8 years now. We use my shop for the design and build, which is also used for most of the local AK47, 1919, FAL builds etc. There's always tons of gun parts lying around. We've done club shoots as well as Appleseeds. All the kids in the club can field strip and re-assemble an AR15, 1911, Glock, 1919, Vickers, or 1910 Maxim quicker than most adults. The exposure naturally leads to questions about how they were used and why. We've got the typical mix of liberals and anti-gunners for teachers and parents, but it's hard for them to argue when the kids are being taught safety and responsibility along with the mechanical functioning of the machines.

Whining about it on the internet isn't going to change anything.

My hat's off to you. Good work

Double Vision
May 19, 2013, 01:34 PM
When I hear about stories like this I think of the scene from "Back to School" where comedian Sam Kinison is teaching history. Classic. :)
I'd post the link but some may find some of the language offensive.

jonnyc
May 19, 2013, 03:16 PM
dennisrl84..........Yay!!!

Prophet
May 19, 2013, 04:02 PM
OP; you should be proud of yourself for being capable of schooling your teacher on topics concerning firearms and the 2A. Judging by many of your posts here on THR, I'm sure you'll make your best effort to represent the firearm-educated community as the well reasoned side of the debate if you ever do end up in a confrontation with your teacher concerning the topic. Best of luck and keep us updated!

Homeschooling children - Yeah that's the answer. Having inexperienced and unqualified people teach young minds.

Yeah... that statement doesn't match up with my K through 12 homeschooling experience in the least. In our homeschooling community there has never been a shortage of parents with successful careers willing to teach subjects they are better versed in than others. The classes typically revolve around real world application because often the subject isn't just something the teacher is qualified and employed to teach, rather it is what he or she does on a daily basis to earn a living. When I was two years from graduating, classes were being offered by a well-respected and successful historian and museum curator, a laboratory technician, an electronics theorist, a published author, and a skilled landscaper; just to name a few. These learning environments are popularly known as co-ops.

There is a certain normality humans get from socialization which you don't get in the basement of your house.

Because an age- and grade-segregated classroom environment based upon a standardized one size fits all curriculum does such a great job of replicating real life after high school and never results in 40-year-olds still living in their parent's basement and group homes, right? :rolleyes: Normalcy is relative, and the notion that socialization is something exclusive to the public school system and cannot be had anywhere else is ridiculous. For someone who supposes themselves to be so open-minded concerning social issues you sure do seem guilty of following a rather bigoted and judgmental stereotype concerning parents who choose to educate their children at home. Or maybe you have trouble appreciating diversity in educational environments and upbringing?

So I don't think the public school is what mold the person.

But in your opinion homeschooling does? I have formerly homeschooled friends and peers serving in almost every branch of the military, working in industry, medical/nursing/psychiatry, ministry, computer science, some who formed and joined alternative rock and pop bands, and some who took on their family businesses and started families of their own directly after they graduated. One in particular recently EAS'd from active duty in the USMC infantry after serving a tour in Afghanistan and is currently going to college to become a college-level history teacher. So much for their homeschool backgrounds inhibiting their success in society.

To anyone here on THR who is considering homeschooling as an alternative to public school; it's not for everybody, but it certainly is a viable alternative worthy of exploration on your part as a parent. It does require sacrifice and you will have to put up with the rest of public-schooled society constantly doubting and scrutinizing your decision, but if your children's educational experience and upbringing at home is anything like mine your children will likely appreciate and thank you for it.

wgaynor
May 19, 2013, 07:59 PM
Funny how homeschooling is generalized/described as being taught in basements. Many of those in homeschool, are part of a larger organization of like minded parents that are highly educated and share the load of teaching by schooling the children in small groups. Not only do they stick to the State Guidelines, they also exceed them, resulting in children starting college 1 or 2 years earlier than the average school age child.

Of course, you could look at the worse representation of the home schooled child and make an assumption and I could do the same with a child raised in public school system.

Ankeny
May 19, 2013, 08:25 PM
So, I go to a public high school. Today, a new book for us to read in english called Fallen Angles. It is an anti-Vietnam War book, no surprise, being as we have a very liberal school and this isn't the first bit of indoctrination we have received. You lost me right there. Have you read and discussed the book? Does anyone in your school understand the works of Walter Dean Myers? When you finish with "Fallen Angels", read "Sunrise Over Fallujah" by Myers. By then you might have a clue, or you will be really pissed off. :D

HOOfan_1
May 19, 2013, 08:38 PM
And what exactly have we achieved in AFG? Did we create a wonderful democracy? Did we overthrow the Taliban?

Ummm...seeing as the Taliban isn't in control of the country right now...yeah I would say we did. Seeing as we flushed out and captured/killed a lot of big wigs in Al-Qaeda...

What exactly were you expecting? A new colony?

Sentryau2
May 21, 2013, 01:56 AM
I read that book a few years ago, to me i didnt feel it was anti nam. Your teacher may have wanted it to seem that way. I think the book more or less wanted to show that the war was terrible and it was. This is the book with the guy nick named birdy right? If not ignore this post lol. Never really had to deal with commie sympathizer teachers.

bikerdoc
May 21, 2013, 07:10 AM
Good discussion, many good points, but a little adrift of our mission when we we get into politics, book reviews, fighting among ourselves and very little RKBA or gun content.

Your welcome to start a more focused thread, but this one is closed without prejudice.

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