Need help ID'ing shingling hatchet


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rcmodel
May 16, 2013, 10:43 PM
This shingling hatchet belonged to my great great grandfather.

I retreived it out of the junk today and am trying to get some idea of who made it.

My first impression was an early Kansas blacksmith, or Illinois Blacksmith made it before he came to Kansas?

But after I knocked some of the rust off I found:
What appears to be a heart stamped in on side.
And some very small stamped writing on the other which I think are in three lines.

It is too badly rust pitted to read it.

Measurements are:
2 3/4" cutting edge.
6 1/8" OAL length.
1/2" x 1 1/2" eye.

http://i81.photobucket.com/albums/j219/rcmodel/Knives/Hatchet1_zpsd0eb5a67.jpg

http://i81.photobucket.com/albums/j219/rcmodel/Knives/Hatchet2_zpseda38ac2.jpg


The eye is cracked, and the hammer head badly flared over.

But I want to re-handle it and make something out of it again.

Maybe a Viking Ax, cause I think it is nearly old enough to be one? :D

Or maybe a walking stick head, cause I feel old & tired enough to need one. :mad:

rc

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Gottahaveone
May 18, 2013, 07:51 PM
RC, If it was *your* Great Great Grandfathers, are you sure it isn't made of bronze? Sorry, couldn't resist :evil:

Sam Cade
May 18, 2013, 08:07 PM
Is the crack actually into the eye or is it in the cheeks?

If it isn't into the eye you could stop drill the crack and weld it after opening it up.


I'd pitch the head into a bucket of vinegar and see if some more of that corrosion will scale off.

rcmodel
May 18, 2013, 08:56 PM
Is the crack actually into the eye or is it in the cheeks?I don't know what you call it, but the cracks in the head, right next to the front of the eye is visible in both side photos.

The right side is way worse then the left side.

I will maybe try the vinegar next time I get out to get some.

I have also heard Coca-Cola works like that too and the fizz helps work the rust off??
Know anything about that?

Thanks for the help!

PS: I still kinda wonder what use this thing was put too all those years.
The hammer head didn't get peened over & the eye (cheeks?) cracked pounding shingle nails on a wood roof I betcha.

My grandfather had a blacksmith shop on the farm with a forge & huge anvil, and ran steam engine thrashing machines as well as farming half a section with horses.

Now, I'm wondering if he didn't have a blacksmith hammer or three to go with it all and used this hatchet for making horse shoes & plow shears??


rc

Sam Cade
May 18, 2013, 10:17 PM
I will maybe try the vinegar next time I get out to get some.

I have also heard Coca-Cola works like that too and the fizz helps work the rust off??
Know anything about that?



Never tried coca-cola, but I've been pickling every rusty widget I encounter using white vinegar with good results for a couple decades now.

Just pitch it in and forget about it for a couple days.

rcmodel
May 18, 2013, 10:50 PM
10-4!

I may get white vinegar And some Coke
Been wanting to try the Coke thing for some time but never had any thought of using it to raise lettering on this old hatchet.

And if Coke or vinegar don't work?

I can always drink it mixed on the rocks or something?? :what:

rc

Sam Cade
May 18, 2013, 11:49 PM
Drop an boiled egg in vinegar for a month and you have a tasty treat.


What do you get if you use Coke instead?:scrutiny:


Anyone want to do that culinary experiment?

rcmodel
May 19, 2013, 12:17 AM
What do you get if you use Coke instead?Green teeth, and bad breath at both ends??

I won't try that I think!

rc

danez71
May 19, 2013, 12:38 PM
Ive tried coke/pepsi a few times on things.

The PH is on the acidic side of the scale but its very very mild.

I don't think the bubbles have anything to do with anything.

rcmodel
May 19, 2013, 08:26 PM
Well, it's swimming in a glass bowl of white vinegar as of 5 minutes ago.

We will see what happens.

rc

Coop45
May 19, 2013, 09:04 PM
Hmmmm. Handle for a tactical walking cane?

Sam Cade
May 19, 2013, 10:23 PM
Handle for a tactical walking cane?


Fokos!

http://www.img.casual.hu/shops/557/images/item/fokos-ii-21223.jpg

rcmodel
May 20, 2013, 08:52 PM
Hatchet head after 24 hours in white Vinegar.


http://i81.photobucket.com/albums/j219/rcmodel/Knives/Hatchet124hours_zps2a27d016.jpg

http://i81.photobucket.com/albums/j219/rcmodel/Knives/Hatchet224hours_zps0ca368c7.jpg

Should have bought a Big bottle of vinegar instead of a small one! :D

It's getting tired of eating rust already!

rc

Certaindeaf
May 20, 2013, 09:19 PM
RC, that's a cool tool. Since you mentioned/wondered it, I remembered something Granfors Bruk's says about a "crack" on their axes.. to me, a crack is a crack but it seems they may say otherwise.. they have pictures saying what they are talking about and to me, it still looks like what they say is not a crack is a crack. but anyway


From their website:

http://www.gransforsbruk.com/en/faq/

"It looks like a crack on the bottom of the axe, nere the axe eye. Is that dangerous and will the axe break?

No, there is no crack in the strict sense, it just looks that way. This phenomenon has occurred when the hole of the head has been forged and then compressed a bit when the shape of the head has been made. It is no rupture and the axe will not break."

rcmodel
May 20, 2013, 09:29 PM
Well, that's certainly interesting!!
Still looks like cracks to me though!

Thanks for the link!!

I do agree the blade probably won't break clear off the head.

But the eye spreading at the cracks makes keeping a handle tight with wood and steel wedges nearly impossible it seems.

I remember launching this one off the handle at inopportune times more then once when I was a boy.

I re-handled it years ago, and I could never keep the handle tight.

rc

Sam Cade
May 20, 2013, 09:30 PM
they have pictures saying what they are talking about and to me, it still looks like what they say is not a crack is a crack. "

This is what they are talking about.


http://i882.photobucket.com/albums/ac30/ecross88/P7210814.jpg

http://img515.imageshack.us/img515/3491/photo0071gb.jpg

Certaindeaf
May 20, 2013, 09:32 PM
I know. They have a picture of an axe they've made that looks exactly like yours.. regarding the crack.. I guess it's a very regular and "normal" phenomenon.
Sam, they refer to a crack just as pictured in one of RC's first photo's.

rcmodel
May 20, 2013, 09:47 PM
Nope!

My cracks are different then the crack Sam Cade posted.
I understand the crack they show is a result of forging the eye.
Seen them before.

But my cracks are on both sides, next to the eye, not down the middle in line with it.

http://i81.photobucket.com/albums/j219/rcmodel/Knives/Hatchet1Cracks_zpscdd37322.jpg

rc

Sam Cade
May 20, 2013, 09:52 PM
Sam, they refer to a crack just as pictured in one of RC's first photo's.

Negative.

The "crack" that the GB folks are talking about starts centered at the eye on the beard side and goes forward toward the bit. It is artifact of the manufacturing process.




RCs axe is just plain old cracked because somebody loved it. :D

rcmodel
May 20, 2013, 10:03 PM
just plain old cracked because somebody loved it.Boy, you got that right!

The more I mess with it, I'm not sure I love it all that much anymore either!!

Still, I'm gonna finish cleaning it up, and see if I can somehow make out the writing.
But I think it is too far gone under the pitting to ever read it.

rc

Certaindeaf
May 20, 2013, 10:03 PM
Arg! I hear you. I coulda swore they had a pic/referenced a crack just as RC's pic. nevermind

Deltaboy
May 20, 2013, 10:04 PM
Get it welded up.

rcmodel
May 20, 2013, 10:14 PM
I'll weld it myself if I decide to go that far.

Still pondering it's future.

A grind Something like this would get rid of the cracks I guess!!

Except that one is cracked in the eye too. :what:

Course, it might be early iron-age.


http://www.gransforsbruk.com/wp-content/uploads/2012/12/Järnåldersyxa.jpg



rc

Certaindeaf
May 20, 2013, 10:28 PM
I'd like to know who made that also. Plumb and about a thousand others made types like that back then. good luck!

rcmodel
May 20, 2013, 10:46 PM
Yea!
I'll need it.

I still think the Heart shaped deep stamp on the right side is the best clue I will ever have.

I just haven't been able to find any old tool company with a three line address, and a heart shaped logo yet.

The heart could easily be a obscure & hand-made blacksmiths stamp.

But the three line address on the other side is too nicely done and too small to be whacked in with a hammer and letter stamps under a shade tree.

That's the part I want to find out somehow.

rc

Certaindeaf
May 20, 2013, 10:57 PM
A plumb-bob is kinda like a heart.. never know if it's a Plumb.

Sam Cade
May 20, 2013, 11:02 PM
But the three line address on the other side


Have you tried throwing it into relief with a flashlight?


(flashlight on the same plane as the surface, leaving the stamping in shadow)

Certaindeaf
May 20, 2013, 11:04 PM
Or rub it/do a "rubbing". Sometimes that'll work.

Certaindeaf
May 20, 2013, 11:07 PM
http://toolmonger.com/wp-content/uploads/2008/02/PB-9%20Plumb%20Bob.jpg

Certaindeaf
May 20, 2013, 11:18 PM
Does Plumb still even exist? I've swung a tool professionally now and again but I forget.

rcmodel
May 20, 2013, 11:23 PM
Yep!

I tried a LED Stream-lite from all different angles.
As well as sunlight, incandescent light, and fluorescent light.
With three different power magnifying lens ranging from 2x to 8x.

I tried a lead pencil rubbing right off the bat.
I'll try that again after I get all the rust out of the lettering.

But I'm afraid the deep pitting has had it's way with the detail of the stamp needed to read it.

I suppose Gil Gruesome & CSI could read it by dripping some ultra-violent poison toad urine on it with a glass pipit steaming from a beaker over a Bunsen burner and read it right after the commercial break???

But I'm fresh out of all that stuff.



Certaindeaf!
You are a genius!!
Plumb Tools is long gone now.

But the heart shaped (Or Plumb) trademark they used on my hatchet head isn't!!
See it here about to the bottom of the page!!

http://yesteryearstools.com/Yesteryears%20Tools/Plumb%20Co..html

How that Australian Plumb trademark relates to my great-great grandfather's shingling hatchet in Kansas will remain another mystery forever I'm afraid.

Thank You for the place to look!!

rc

Certaindeaf
May 20, 2013, 11:45 PM
Heh, that warms my plumb-bob.

Sam Cade
May 20, 2013, 11:50 PM
I suppose Gil Gruesome & CSI could read it by dripping some ultra-violent poison toad urine on it with a glass pipit steaming from a beaker over a Bunsen burner and read it right after the commercial break???


That will work.

Sorta.

Milling the area smooth and etching it will cause the compressed material that was under the stamp to "pop".

It is one of the way The Powers that Be get serial numbers from "scrubbed" guns.

rcmodel
May 21, 2013, 12:26 AM
Milling?
Electro-Acid-Etch Method?

But, I have a repressed urge to grind on it with a fine belt sander or flat disk!!
Or maybe even block sand it with 240 Wet or Dry first??

Regardless, I think the above post pretty much proves the heart stamp is old Plumb Tool.

And that's all I really wanted to know.

rc

kBob
May 21, 2013, 04:54 PM
I just did a "bing" search for "Plumb tools hatchet" and got a lot of images many of which looked much like your hatchet RC.

It also seemed every Plumb tool shown that was older than say me was marked differently. I wonder if the different markings were for specific hardware stores or mail order houses?

I tried to get someone to give me a plumb bob once. It was recovered inside the factory mountain at Ober Amergau Germany apparently on a level devoted to artillery shell production for the other items included a fuze spanner wrench and the tops of some powder type cans. We were told the area was heavily mined, but some of our dope heads went up on the mountain for a smoke and found what we think must have been a air vent and followed it in. They wandered, stoned, among some machine tools until the pen light they were using began to brown out and the zippo got to hot to hold. They had been so stoned none of the three could show us how to get back to the air vent!

-kBob

rcmodel
May 21, 2013, 05:06 PM
Well I took it out of the vinegar after two days and cleaned it the rest of the way with a carding wheel on my buffer.

The writing is too badly pitted to read.

Oh well!

http://i81.photobucket.com/albums/j219/rcmodel/Knives/Hatchet348hours_zpsffaea8b0.jpg

http://i81.photobucket.com/albums/j219/rcmodel/Knives/Hatchet448hours_zpsf22b830a.jpg

rc

Certaindeaf
May 21, 2013, 05:46 PM
I just looked at an old but sweet hatchet and small axe I inherited from my neighbor. The axe has no markings whatsoever (I even had my glasses on!) but the hatchet is stamped "PLUMB".. halfway faint and small but it's there.
I'd almost bet the axe is a Plumb though.
Razor sharp stropped and Johnson Paste waxed, handles, heads and all. I keep them right by the fireplace.

Deltaboy
May 21, 2013, 10:12 PM
Sad to hear Plumb is out of business.

Bull Nutria
May 22, 2013, 12:06 PM
Looks like this hatchet dates back to "when a hatchet was a hammer"!!

interesting old tool, with family meaning. thanks for sharing. I'll bet there is an antique hatchet expert somewhere that could tell you more than you wanted to know about your hatchet--just need to find him??

Bull

rcmodel
May 22, 2013, 01:44 PM
Well here it is after grinding the flared hammer head level again and doing a little pit removal.

After noting all the peened edges on all surfaces, I'm thinking grandpa or somebody used it mostly for a log splitting wedge and pounded the snot out of it with a small sledge hammer.


Now I'm off to see if I can find a curved handle for it, like a scout ax.

Went to Home Depot yesterday to get a handle and they laughed at me!!
I was told people don't replace hammer / hatchet handles anymore.

There is an old hardware store down town, and he probably has something left in stock from 1900!

If I can find a handle I like the looks of, and will go ahead and weld the cracks and do some more finish grinding on it.


http://i81.photobucket.com/albums/j219/rcmodel/Knives/Hatchet4aftergrinding_zpsb3de3c9e.jpg


http://i81.photobucket.com/albums/j219/rcmodel/Knives/Hatchet3aftergrinding_zps7ba52c85.jpg

rc

Sam Cade
May 22, 2013, 02:06 PM
Now I'm off to see if I can find a curved handle for it, like a scout ax.

Went to Home Depot yesterday to get a handle and they laughed at me!!
I was told people don't replace hammer / hatchet handles anymore.

I hate Home Depot. I have a similar experience every time I go in.

Do-It centers will usually have a fair selection of handles but you will likely have to sort through a bunch before you ever find one with decent grain orientation.



On that note, here is an old True Temper that I salvaged a while back.

I hung it on this handle just for you. :-)

Certaindeaf
May 22, 2013, 02:18 PM
Heh, excellent. I like it way more better. A "hooked" handle is more my preference also.. unless you're going to use the hammerhead equally.. then just a good flare/swell or something.

thralldad
May 22, 2013, 02:24 PM
I have a similar hatchet that I just put a 14" handle on. I found it inside an old rotten log about 20 years ago. It's a Stanley.

kBob
May 22, 2013, 03:12 PM
The Lowe's I use has tool handles. Axes picks et are in the garden center and hammer handles are in the tool area.

I think your work on this relic has been great. I never thought of vinegar for that before. Wish I had known as a kid when I ruined some rusty blades with naval jelly.......

-kBob

kBob
May 22, 2013, 03:21 PM
OK I am a moron.

As I was typing the above a drawer on my desk fell apart and I went to the shop to get stuff to fix it with. I di not actually post the above until I returned from the shop.

Looking for a hammer I noticed this on the wall......forgot I had it. I bought it last year at a yard sale around the corner and a mile down the road for $10.

Yeah I really think you have an older PLUMB. I tried to chalk the logo to help folks see it. Wow I need to clean that puppy up.

-kBob

rcmodel
May 22, 2013, 04:01 PM
Well, I'm back from the old hardware store downtown.
Plus Coast to Coast hardware, Westlake's hardware, Tractor Supply, and Orchilans Farm Supply.

Found a few hammer handles, two straight hatchet handles, and one curved hand ax handle like I wanted.

Unfortunately, it was about three sizes too big for the eye in this hatchet.
I can shape it down, but it would ruin the lines of it I think.

I may have to settle on a straight handle after all.
Or just refinish the one I have?

rc

Certaindeaf
May 22, 2013, 10:53 PM
Well that sucks. I'd probably just pimp out that existing handle.

Jim Watson
May 23, 2013, 12:21 AM
The word is Bing. Or Google.

www.TennesseeHickoryProducts.com is just one vendor.
Sounds like you want a Boy Scout hatchet handle, their standard lath and shingle hatchet handles are straight.

eBay has a Hickory Handle Store.
http://stores.ebay.com/Hickory-Handle-Store

Certaindeaf
May 23, 2013, 02:37 PM
When it's dark and taking the dogs out, sometimes I'll slip a small hatchet or axe into my robe belt. they are pretty light for what they'll do.. knock on wood

rcmodel
May 23, 2013, 03:42 PM
Well the blade cracks are now TIG welded.
And the old handle is refinished with two coats of Tru-Oil.

Now back to the basement to finish grind the welds down and put the handle back on.

http://i81.photobucket.com/albums/j219/rcmodel/Knives/Hatchet4afterwelding_zpsc255cf1d.jpg

http://i81.photobucket.com/albums/j219/rcmodel/Knives/Hatchet3afterwelding_zps68469360.jpg

rc

Sam Cade
May 23, 2013, 03:47 PM
Its ALIIIIVEEE!!

Deltaboy
May 23, 2013, 10:02 PM
A little grinding and your set.

rcmodel
May 23, 2013, 10:49 PM
I think I'm set now, except for final sharpening & honing it.

Finished grinding the welds and put the handle in permanently this afternoon.
Made a quick and dirty blade cover this evening.

Leather cut & Contact cemented Welt on one side:

http://i81.photobucket.com/albums/j219/rcmodel/Knives/HatchetMakingSheath1_zps89a20060.jpg

Holes punched & setting rivets:

http://i81.photobucket.com/albums/j219/rcmodel/Knives/HatchetMakingSheath2_zpsbfca9a88.jpg

Gluing retainer strap:

http://i81.photobucket.com/albums/j219/rcmodel/Knives/HatchetMakingSheath3_zpscb625a26.jpg

Setting hole location for snap:

http://i81.photobucket.com/albums/j219/rcmodel/Knives/HatchetMakingSheath6_zps1b2bf0b1.jpg

Setting Snaps:

http://i81.photobucket.com/albums/j219/rcmodel/Knives/HatchetMakingSheath5_zps8d50324a.jpg

Hatchet & Sheath:

http://i81.photobucket.com/albums/j219/rcmodel/Knives/Hatchetafterhandleampsheath1_zps73bbc0ff.jpg

Hatchet & Sheath after oiling the leather:

http://i81.photobucket.com/albums/j219/rcmodel/Knives/Hatchetafterhandleampsheath2_zps17bf1174.jpg


I guess it's my Viking War Hawk now!!
(unless I need to do some Split Wood Shingling!)
Then it's my granddaddy's antique Roofing Tool.

Turns out the old straight handle makes it more like a Hawk then a hatchet.
It slips in & out of my belt like a good hawk should!



PS: If you came in late, It started out as this:
http://i81.photobucket.com/albums/j219/rcmodel/Knives/Hatchet1Cracks_zpscdd37322.jpg

rc

Certaindeaf
May 24, 2013, 01:32 PM
Excellent work. What a transformation.

thralldad
May 24, 2013, 02:20 PM
I WAS satified with mine til I saw yours! Back to the workshop!

Sam Cade
May 24, 2013, 02:24 PM
Back to the workshop!


The game begins! :D

Wolfebyte
May 24, 2013, 04:13 PM
Ok.. what is this, a test of my eyesight?

if so, I failed.. I don't see any heart.. nor 3 lines of text on that head...

anyone do a rough out sketch of it?

rcmodel
May 24, 2013, 04:46 PM
The heart is just to the top right of the red circle around the crack in the photo.

It is visible in the finished photo just above it. (The black heart just below the eye.)

The text was too rust damaged to read, either before or after cleaning.

I can't even do a rough sketch of it, because I never could make it out well enough to read any letters of it.

rc

Bull Nutria
May 24, 2013, 04:51 PM
what is that wet spot on the leather hatchet cover glue??

Nice job what a great project thanks for sharing!

Bull

rcmodel
May 24, 2013, 05:00 PM
Wet Spot = Fresh Contact cement, before it dried so the strap will stick to it before it is punched and riveted.

rc

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