[Jeff White]

Received this from ISRA a couple of hours ago:


YOUR ASSISTANCE URGENTLY NEEDED

We have learned that Blagojevich and Daley are teaming up to institute a new gun owner registration database here in Illinois. This move by Blagovich & Daley is intended to circumvent a federal law that requires law enforcement agencies to destroy gun purchase records within 24 hours.

If this Blago-Daley gun grab law passes, then you and all your guns will be registered in a government computer that can be accessed by anyone who wants to. Thus, your gun inventory, your name, address, and phone number will be available to government agents, reporters, crooks and antigunners.

There is no bill number yet for this assault on your freedoms and privacy. As soon as we get the bill number we will let you know. We suspect that the bill will be introduced in the House.

I think this is in response to the courts refusing to give Daley access to BATF data for Chicago's lawsuit. I don't know how long the ISP keeps instant check info, but it would only have handgun or longgun, no specifics. I would expect that they would establish some type of state dealers license with reporting requirements. This would fit in with Blago's plan to balance the state budget on the back of business owners. There will probably be a hefty fee for the license. Perhaps even the posting of surety bonds with the state. If they take that route we can expect support form business groups. I don't really see how else they could do it.

Jeff

[DonP]

When you combine their elitist attitude about guns (OK for my bodyguards and family, not for you) with their insatiable need for more cash/tax money to keep their many political cronies happy with new "no-bid" contracts, paid for by us, they really keep coming up with new, unconstitutional and idiotic ideas.

As soon as we get the bill numbers let us know. Since their last "downstate debacle" I've gotten on a first name basis with my State Rep and Senator and offered to do some volunteer PR and speechwriting work for their offices.

According to Ms. Radogno and Ms. Kosel (my locals) the downstate people are really getting fed up with the gun and money grabbing, week after week. There's no money in the budget for any downstate projects, but no problem awarding major road construction/repair contracts to K-Five and other people that are big $$$ supporters.

They better learn that there is more to life in the Land of Lincoln than Emil Jones and his latest round of lap dog bills.

No, never mind, the more arrogant they get the better the chance to re-create a true non-RINO opposition party.

[lee n. field]

According to Ms. Radogno and Ms. Kosel (my locals) the downstate people are really getting fed up with the gun and money grabbing, week after week. There's no money in the budget for any downstate projects, but no problem awarding major road construction/repair contracts to K-Five and other people that are big $$$ supporters.

Short of walling off Chicagometropolitanarea and declaring it a seperate country, what can we do?

[44Brent]

The lack of statewide pre-emption has led many Chicago burbs pass local bans and/or registration laws. You can encourage the legislature to pass a statewide pre-emption law by getting some towns to pass ordinances requiring that every adult own "x" number of handguns. When some towns in Georgia and Kansas did this, it made the news. Do this in Illinois, and it will make the news in Chicago, and get "Governor" Daley and "Mayor" Blagojevich's panties in a wad.

I can't support the hanging of Mayor Daley in effigy, because that would be a terrible waste of matches.

[Standing Wolf]

It's so much easier to confiscate commoners' guns when you know where they are.

[Jeff White]

DonP said;

No, never mind, the more arrogant they get the better the chance to re-create a true non-RINO opposition party.

The problem is that the republican party is not organized and almost non-existant in many counties downstate. For example, I was approached by the County Republican Chairman the first Saturday in Oct 03 about becoming more involved in the party since I was retired from the military and the Hatch Act provisions no longer applied. I didn't hear another word from them until the Friday before the deadline for filing petitions to get on the ballot for yesterday's election. The chairman called and asked if I'd be interested in being precinct comitteeman. I said I'd be interested in talking to him about it, so he came by with petitions that needed to have signatures gathered over the weekend and filed at the clerk's office on Monday. I declined. To me that was a good indication of how poorly the party is organized at the local level downstate. Yesterday, when I went to vote in the primary, I discovered that the party will have no candidates on the ballot in November for most local offices.

Before we can have a non-RINO opposition party, we have to have an opposition party. It's non existant in much of Southern Illinois.

Jeff

[PATH]

:barf: I thought it wa really bad here in NY! Boy are you Illini in for it! Good luck in the coming fight!

[scout26]

Red Ink up to our eyeballs, handing out money like it was candy to our "connected" pals, Homicide capital of the US, the state economy in the crapper and the only thing they can think of hassleing legit gun owners.

If we would have elected Poshard (pro-gun downstate Democrat), instead of the Ryan (anti-gun, up-state Republican), we would be in Poshard second term or a different Republican's first term, instead of Gov Unpronouncable's term.

It just frosts me that the state Republican party gladly followed George "I not a crook" Ryan over the cliff.

Will no one step-up and lead us out of the desert ???

Yeah, there is....my money's on Rauschenberger, made a name for him self in the Senate race. He's "right" on all the issues, and can focus on re-building the party now that's he staying in Springfield.

Jeff, sounds like your local party is as screwed up a as soup sandwich..... I can't think of anyone better then someone retired military to extract their helmet carriers from their fourth point. I take it you're down near Scott AFB ???

[kbsrn]

is trying real hard to catch up with NY, CA, MA, and NJ in making gun owners feel unwelcome. To bad all of the gun owners couldn't just leave those states.

[Jeff White]

scout26,
Unfortunately a lot of counties down here are that way. The economy that was based on coal mining for years has left us with a legacy of union voters who are democrats even though the party doesn't stand for almost anything they believe in. They will elect a democrat over almost anyone locally, but nationally, the counties usually go republican.

Yes, I'm about 65 miles East of SAFB. Since I'm in police work now, I have to still watch my political involvement. But the local party may as well not even be here.

Jeff

[Kingcreek]

There is another very important factor here that will no doubt rear its ugly head. Most people don't realize that a large number of bills were passed out of commitee just before the deadline (approx 2w ago) that contained NO LANGUAGE. titles and numbers only and blank pages. Votes were along party lines, passed by the majority democrats. What this means is that the amendments BECOME the bills in the full assemby. They will be posted only 1 hour before the vote is called and may be put to vote in blocks of 25 bills at a time. Some of the amendments may be 150 pages or more for each so-called bill.
Passage is almost certain and we won't know what they contain until after they are law. Scares the spit out of me.
Chicago wins- downstate loses. I don't know what its going to take to turn this around. Suggestions? other than leaving illinois

[fedlaw]

The Rosemont casino license is only the latest in the neverending load of horse-pucky to be foisted upon the people of Illinois. It is infuriating on every level.
Hope 1.: N.D.IL U.S.Attorney Patrick Fitzgerald survives the Nov. election, (obviously depends on Presidential race as well as the Senatorial election. No Democrat and not many Republcans will want to keep him on board);
Hope 2.: Dan Hynes' defeat in the primary signals a weakening of the Machine in Cook County (Ha!Ha!);
Hope 3.: Some fortuitous event causes the Illinois populace to unite. (actual facts have no effect when up against the fairy tales coming out of Chicago and Springfield.)

[sctman800]

March 24 is Gun Owner Lobby Day in Springfield, details can be found at www.isra.org. I will attend for the first time this year with at least three friends from my local club. My state reps are both solid pro gun so they deserve a little positive reinforcement, and the rest need to see gun owners in force. Hope to see everyone there, Jim.

[Kingcreek]

Jim,
I couldn't find the details at the I$RA website. got a direct link or any info?
I might actually be able to make it to Springfield on the 24th.

[Jeff White]

Kingcreek,
Here is the last I received on Gun Owner Lobby Day;

Attend the ISRA Lobby Day Rally at the State Capitol on Wednesday, March 24th. The rally kicks off at 8:00 AM in the Stratton Building Cafeteria. The Stratton Building is located across the street from the Capitol. After the rally, we will ask you to go visit your legislator to remind him or her that you do not want either you or your guns registered in a government computer. If you have any questions regarding the rally, call (815) 635-3198.

Here is the original message;

2004 LOBBY DAY ANNOUNCED - SAVE YOUR GUN RIGHTS

The ISRA is sponsoring a "Lobby Day" on Wednesday, March 24th.

If you are a law-abiding gun owner - you need to be there!

The purpose of Lobby Day is to put gun owners in face to face contact with members of the legislature to remind them that preserving the 2nd Amendment is more important than keeping Mayor Daley happy.

If you care about preserving and protecting your right to keep and bear arms, you need to be there!

Lobby Day will be held in Springfield on Wednesday, March 24, 2004 in the Stratton Office Building Cafeteria. The Stratton Building is adjacent to the Capitol. The cafeteria is located in the lower level.

Lobby Day will kick off at 8:00 AM with a rally and instructions on how to effectively discuss your concerns with your representatives.

If you have any questions regarding Lobby Day, please feel free to call the ISRA staff at (815) 635-3198.

HTH
Jeff

[44Brent]

It would be nice if ISRA would tell gun owners to present a pro-active message of:

1) Get rid of FOID.
2) Pass a statewide pre-emption bill.
3) Pass a right-to-carry bill.

If people are going to travel all the way to Springfield, they should request all three items from their representatives.

[Shooter 2.5]

44Brent,

You do know how laws are made, don't you? How exactly is the ISRA supposed to manufacture the votes needed to pass that legislation when you're dealing with the anti-gun dem party?

[44Brent]

You do know how laws are made, don't you?

No, please educate us.

How exactly is the ISRA supposed to manufacture the votes needed to pass that legislation when you're dealing with the anti-gun dem party?

I would start by getting rid of Richard Pearson as head of ISRA, and replacing him with someone who doesn't support FOID. However, that will never happen because ISRA is primarily a target shooters' club, rather than a civil rights organization.

[44Brent]

http://www.concealcarry.org/israichv.htm

By John Birch, President, Concealed Carry, Inc., PO BOX 4597, Oak Brook, IL 60522-4597, Tel: 630 660-3935 Fax: 815 327-1152 Email: john@concealcarry.org

On October 10, 2002 CC NEWS broke the news that the I$RA frolic to take over the Illinois Council Against Handgun Violence (ICHV) name had blown up in their faces. The only remaining question was who would pay the legal fees. In the article that follows you will find that the largest donor to the ICHV is in fact, going to be the Illinois $tate Rifle Association. I see no point in saying much more as Cal Skinner's article says it all.

However, it is time for accountability. Those officers and board members responsible for this financial devastation should resign prior to the April 12th I$RA Annual Meeting and allow the members to select new leadership. If they refuse, then the board members and officers not responsible should resign in protest.

Of course there will be no I$RA ALERT concerning this matter. Members will not find out that at $20 per year dues it will take the dues of 5,000 members to cover the cost of their merriment. And for some reason I doubt the Illinoi$ $hooter will be running a full page article detailing this scandal. No, in Richard "Saddam" Pearson's world the I$RA is perfect under his perpetual rule. Regime change will not come easy because I am certain that doing the honorable thing and resigning is simply not part of President's Pearson's character.

Ultimately it's up to the members. If they continue to pay dues and make no demand for regime change, then Pearson will survive. If not, then rather than resign I fear President Pearson will take the I$RA down with him in one giant financial implosion. For the I$RA to die on it's 100th Birthday would be a tragic shame. But only new officers willing to implement new by-laws that return control of the I$RA to the members can save the ship now.

Finally, I have checked the I$RA web site www.isra.org and find they are silent on this story. They know most of their members only know what the I$RA does from the carefully controlled content of the Illinoi$ $hooter. If the I$RA can keep this story from the majority of it's members and have it's usual low turn out at the Annual Meeting, they will avoid the storm of protest they so richly deserve.

You can email President Pearson at: president@isra.org

MORE........

Judge awards $98,000 in ISRA funds to handgun control group
http://www.illinoisleader.com/news/newsview.asp?c=4844

Monday, March 24, 2003

By The Leader-Chicago Bureau

SPRINGFIELD -- Illinois State Rifle Association members may have to come up with $98,013.20 to pay legal expenses of the Illinois Council Against Handgun Violence for what the ISRA called “an overly cute joke.”

Federal Judge James Zagel, formerly with Governor Jim Thompson’s administration, ruled the state affiliate of the National Rifle Association and certain individuals had to pay almost $100,000 in legal fees in a copywrite infringement suit filed by the handgun control group.

Defendants held responsible in the case are the Illinois State Rifle Association, Second Vice President and lobbyist Todd Vandermyde, and Peter and Medina Flanagan. Peter Flanagan was the volunteer that managed the ISRA web site.

Illinois State Rifle Association President Richard Pearson could not be reached for comment.

Lobbyist and Second Vice-President of the ISRA Todd Vandermyde said, “There’s not much to comment on at this time. The judge said what he said and we’ll go from there.”

According to Thomas Mannard, executive director of the Illinois Council Against Handgun Violence, the suit arose after the Council Against Handgun Violence let its registration with the Secretary of State’s office lapse last May 1st.

“After May 1st, the name basically became available for anyone to take,” Mannard told Illinois Leader.

“We got wind in late May that Todd Vandermyde with the NRA had filed incorporation papers in the name of the Illinois Council Against Handgun Violence,” he continued. “There was a press release that had gone out under our name saying we were supporting (state) preemption (of local gun control laws), concealed carry and that stuff.

“Over the next course of the next two weeks, there were a couple of different press releases that went out under the Illinois Council Against Handgun Violence that basically discussed issues that in our organization we would have been on the opposite side,” Mannard explained.

“And, so we knew that in terms of the corporate status we had to take steps to address that,” he explained, “but that as an organization that had used this name for twenty years that to be using the name Illinois Council Against Handgun Violence in any type of public way was probably a violation of trademark law.”

The gun control group filed suit in Federal court the first week of last June, “basically stating that they were in violation of Federal trademark law,” Mannard said.

“Right after the suit was filed, we named Todd and a couple of other names. They immediately said they would dis-incorporate and let us have our name back,” Mannard continued. “The caveat was that the defendants wanted us to pay their legal fees.”

Unwilling to pay the ISRA’s legal fees, the gun control group forced a December bench trial before Zagel. “We were trying to establish that Mr. Pearson and others knew what was going on.

“Closing arguments were Dec. 30th,” Mannard continued. “The issue of getting the name back we knew was more or less a done deal. The reason we went to trail was to establish culpability with the SRA and Pearson.”

Zagel noted that the ISRA is “an organization whose views and positions are, to put it mildly, adverse to those adopted by” the organization suing ISRA.

“It is also clear that defendants engaged in wrongful activity,” the judge continued.

“While I am generally reluctant to award such a high sum of attorneys’ fees,” he wrote, “I am bound by Seventh Circuit precedent, which requires that I award attorneys’ fees in a case such as this in which damages are low (or, rather, non-existent).” He noted that “this large sanction” would fulfill the purpose of deterrence against a not-for-profit organization.

“I find that the bulk of the fault lies with Mr. Vandermyde and Peter Flanagan, who manages the ISRA website and who issues bulletins and other ISRA communications through the ISRA’s ‘Alert Service,’” Zagel wrote. “Relative to the actions of Mr. Vandermyde and Mr. Flanagan, the involvement of Richard Pearson, President of ISRA, is quite small and mostly devoted to reacting to the storm of protest…”

Zagel then asks, “Did they betray the trust of the ISRA?”

The Judge points out that “ISRA rules require that officers like Mr. Vandermyde have to clear with the ISRA Board any activity that might be deemed to conflict with the interests of the ISRA.

One reason to suppose that Mr. Vandermyde did not betray the ISRA is that he did present his plan to the Board and they allowed him to proceed,” Zagel continued. “The Board said yes and Mr. Vandermyde’s actions received enough of its approval to render the ISRA responsible, at least in part, for his conduct.”

Later in the decision, Zagel concludes, “Mr. Flanagan’s actions were committed under the direction of Mr. Vandermyde.”

“I guess this is what happens when you treat gun rights like a game,” was the reaction of John Birch, head of Concealed Carry.com.

[Shooter 2.5]

You really don't know how laws are made, do you?

In a nutshell, the anti-gun dems outnumber the Republicans. The only way you can reverse this is the Illinois gunowners must vote straight Republican tickets. They can't vote the way their unions tell them. They can't vote for the Libertarians or the Constitutional Party. They have to vote Republican and remove the dem party from office.

[44Brent]

Shooter 2.5, I believe your analysis of the problem is incorrect. All the articles I've read indicate that as a rule, suburban legislators on both sides of the isle try to screw gun owners, and rural legislators are friendly.

Remember George Ryan (Republican) vs. Glenn Poshard (Democrat)? George Ryan hated gun owners, and Glenn Poshard generally supported us.

Of course, I am not saying that ALL suburban legislators try to screw us, and that ALL rural legislators support us. I am just saying that you can't go by party label.

[Jeff White]

There is a provision in the FOID law to allow it's repeal to be put on the ballot in the general election. I've posted that here before. yet there seems no interest in starting a petition drive to get it on the ballot.

My oldest son and I will be in Springfield next Wednesday. Who else will be there?

Who wants to come down for the ISRA convention and help me try to steer it towards becoming a gun rights organization? I'm a 45 minute drive from the Rend Lake Resort.

Jeff

[Don Gwinn]

If you vote straight Republican, you will elect many Republicans from Chicagoland who want your guns. You'll also miss some pro-gun Democrats from downstate.

You must vote on lines of belief.


The Republicans owned the Executive under Thompson, Edgar and Ryan and all the State Police did back then was crank down on us. And when DNR and the ISP put out their now-moderately-famous pamphlet on gun transport laws which supported some of the things gun owners have been saying for years, I have it on good authority that the early planning was done with some secrecy. Wonder why that would be?


Jeff, I'll come to Lobbying Day, but I just don't see the point in the ISRA convention. They're just going to adjourn the damn thing. Maybe you can buy Pearson a beer, but that's about it. But Rend Lake is worth the drive.
Maybe we can meet up with my sister at the Capitol and get some dinner or something.

On the issue of the registration law/dealer license, keep in mind that they proposed that law last year as part of that grand ten-bill package that made Daley look so stupid. None of it passed. If we keep the pressure on we can do the same thing again. Don't let your legislators rest easy.

[Jeff White]

Don is right...the only reason Sarah Brady can't point to Illinois as a shining example of a disarmed populace is the pro-gun democrats in the statehouse.

Edgar was the most progun governor I can remember and he was only marginal.

BTW when instant check became law I have it on good authority the director of the ISP at the time floated a proposal to get rid of FOID cards. It went nowhere. That was under the gun friendly Edgar administration.

Jeff

[DTLoken]

What the ????, Chicago already has gun registration.

Why does Daley want it statewide?




A pitty, Chicago is a nice city (As long as you stay in decent parts, but every big city has ghetto ????holes) aside from the Daley machine and assine gun laws.

[Jeff White]

What the ????, Chicago already has gun registration.

Why does Daley want it statewide?

So that the rest of us can't own guns either. Daley blames the violence in the socialist workers paradise on the unfortunate fact that people outside of Chicago are allowed to own guns. Don't think for a minute that he would be satisfied with stealing away the rights of the rest of Illinois, once that is acomplished look for him to sue Wisconsin and Indiana to force them to tighten up their gun laws.


Jeff

[Shooter 2.5]

I can go by party label because all the evidence supports that. The dem party is proud of being the anti-gun party. There are very few pro-gun legislators on the dem side just as there are a few anti's on the Republican side.
If the gun owners voted the dems out of office there wouldn't be any gun control.

[Jeff White]

shooter 2.5,
You can say that at the national level, but here in Illinois at the state and local level, there would be no RKBA if it wasn't for downstate democrats. It's more then a few here. You have to look at the candidate, not the party. For the most part the Illinois republicans are only slightly less radical then Daley.

There is no viable RKBA party in this state.

Jeff

[44Brent]

Jeff:

CCRA is going through the process of becoming a statewide organization to promote change. Within 2-5 years, CCRA is planning to run members as candidates in primary elections where Daley's minions are currently running opposed.

The point is not necessarily to win the elections, but to cost the machine so much time and money on a single issue, that they will relent and let CCW pass in order to get rid CCRA off their backs.

[Jeff White]

Kingcreek and I attended the Gun Owner Lobby Day in Springfield today. I would guess there were 75 or so people there. The ISRA had things pretty well organized. They had a couple fact sheets and lobby slips for everyone to drop off at their representative's office.

They started with a briefing from Richard Pearson. He gave background on the progun bills we wanted to support. They were SB 2163 which is FOID reform. It allows 18 year olds to get a FOID without parental consent. SB 2165 which is a bill to provide self defense as an affirmative defense if you possessed a firearm in violation of a local ordinance. This would strip the teeth from laws like Chicago, Willmette and Morton Grove. SB 2386 will extend liability protection to citizens if they are involved in a defensive shooting. If the shooting was legal and justified, the criminal would be unable to sue you civilly.

On the house side we are pushing HB 3989 which is the companion to the senate FOID reform bill. HB 4075 which is the companion to the affirmative defense bill and it passed today 86 to 25.

Todd Vandermyde who is the NRA/ISRA paid lobbyist spoke about how things work in the capitol. He names of Illinois service members who were serving in combat zones but were too young to have a FOID card in Illinois without parental consent. He said Senator Munoz had told him he probably couldn't come up with any. I had an inspiration whild driving home today and e-mailled Todd with the IL ARNG legislative liason's contact information. The 933d MP Company is close enough to Munoz's district that he probably has constituants in that situation. One of the sponsors of the bill is going to contact the guard and get the numbers of 18-21 years olds in the IL ARNG who are carrying weapons in defense of the country but can't sign their own FOID application. I'm sure that there are a few hundred just in the IL ARNG.

After Todd spoke we all started out visiting our representative's and senator's offices. We heven had calling cards to give to the doorman at the chambers to summon them off the floor to talk with us. I was unsuccessful in visiting wither one of my reps, but both are 100% on our side. (it's nice living in the southern part of the state, there a few antigunners from either party in office down here)

After making the rounds we returned to the cafeteria. I had a convertion with ISRA Executive Director Pearson about why the ISRA has never pushed for removal of the FOID card all together. I specifically mentioned the provision in the law for the ballot initiative to repeal it. I was a bit surprised at the answer I got. We have been able to avoid a lot of politically correct gun legislation because we already had the FOID in place. They even hand out a fact sheet using the anti's own words against them whenever things like gun show loophole and seconadry sales come up. THe ultimate goal is to make the FOID a CCW permit. If you look at it like that it makes perfect sense. As long as the state is already licensing gun owners, the license might as well extend to right to carry.

I left today with a better understanding of how things are working in the capitol and a little less frustration at ISRA. They aren't perfect, but then who is? Richard Pearson wrote the so called gunlock law we have. It's a feel good peice of legislation that is totally meaningless and toothless. It doesn't require you to lock your weapons up. It just requires you to tae reasonable precautions. While having no law would be better then the law we have we now have a law that is prettymuch a waste of the paper it took to publish it. And the thing is, we were going to get a gunlock law one way or the other. I know others take the purist approach. At heart I am a purist too. But sometimes you have to do damage contol.

All in all, I think that we're holding our own and even gaining some ground back. All while we have the most antigun administration to ever occupy statewide office in Illinois. Love them or hate them you have to give ISRA a little credit where it's due. At this time no antigun bills have made it out of comittee, but we have five progun bills moving. There is still the danger of the shell bills mentioned earlier in this thread.

It was great to meet Kingcreek today. He's the first instate THR member I've met although I do personally know many out of state members.

I think that if we can unite ISRA, CCRA and Illinois Concealed Carry into a coalition and support each other, we'll be a bigger force to be delt with. I left Springfield with a renewed hope of seeing CCW in the foreseeable future.

Jeff

[Kingcreek]

Hey, I'll echo those comments.
My reps are also solidly on our side but it was nice to reinforce that with a friendly visit. I got to meet up with Sen. Risinger along with some other area shooters that were there at the same time. My 2 reps both know me from pretty regular contacts at various functions. Those little donations here and there buy you a some face-to-face and there is an eventual payback when the issues are near and dear to our cause.
Nice to meet Jeff and Jeff jr.- swell fellas
No reason why THR should be a "faceless name club"
I think some future political efforts, group shoots, or whatever could be fun and maybe even productive.
edited to add:
The division between the Chicago Democrats and most of the Downstate Democrats is big, and its a good thing for the rest of us. It costs nothing to keep in touch with your reps and keep them working FOR us.

[sctman800]

I also attended, and had a good time, sorry I didn't meet either of you. When Tod Vandermyle got done speaking I was the bearded one who asked about John Jones and his CCW bill. It seems we are holding our own pretty well considering the current make up of our elected officils here in Ill. Jim.

[44Brent]

sctman800: What was Todd Vandermyde's response?

[Don Gwinn]

Glad there was reason for optimism. Wish I'd just gone ahead and taken the day off. The student I stayed to help spent the entire day going ballistic anyway. Didn't do a bit of good.

A coalition of those groups would indeed be wonderful, but does anyone have any suggestions on how to make it happen?

Also, did Pearson give any specifics as to how the FOID is to be transformed into a CCW? That's a big leap for most people. Are there any intermediate steps? I can't think of any.

I guess I might as well be honest. I just don't trust him. Maybe that's wrong and I'm being unfair, but that's where I stand nonetheless.

[44Brent]

The only way ISRA and CCRA could work together would be if ISRA took the first step at repairing the fractured relationship. ISRA expelled CCRA for being "too active" in representing gun owners (as if that's a bad thing). CCRA has written a couple of articles exposing ISRA'a payment of 98K to an anti-rights group to settle a lawsuit filed against it and Todd Vandermyde. ISRA responded to the article by threatening to sue CCRA for alleged defamation, but never followed up on that threat.

ISRA doesn't even link to CCRA or ConcealedCarry.org on its own web site, even though it does link to anti-rights groups.

[Kingcreek]

44Brent,
The ISRA addresses that in the new edition of the Illinois Shooter. I haven't recieved mine in the mail yet, but I picked one up at Lobby Day.
I'm not ready to be a cheerleader for the ISRA but I am willing to hang around and see if maybe they weren't as bad as I thought. I would like to give them the benefit of the doubt and say that they know how things work in Springfield and are using the most productive methods. "Slash and burn" in-your-face politics feels good, but might not be the best way to get things done.
I dunno. If anybody has all the answers, feel free to enlighten me.
Don,
I know how you feel about R Pearson. I probably wouldn't buy a used car from the guy, but he seems maybe not entirely self-serving.
Todd Vandermyde's name came up in Sen Risinger's office in a very positive light. Were are probably lucky to have him in the fight.

[sctman800]

About the CCW question: Tod said it wasn't included in the list of bills to support because it had allready died. He also commented something kind of vague as if it was being worked on in a behind the sciens sort of direction. Jim.

[Jeff White]

sctman800,
Sorry I didn't get to meet you. I'd have looked for you had I known you were going to be there.

44Brent,
I haven't looked at the new Illinois Shooter yet, but they did pass out CCRA's GunNews to everyone in attendance. Perhaps ISRA has realized they are going to have to be more then a shooting club in order to stay relevant. I do think that Illinois gunowners are better off united then divided. The old agage about the enemy of my enemy comes to mind.

I would be interested in hosting an Illinois THR shoot if enough members are interested.

All I know about Pearson is heresay. A lot of it hasn't been good. I do share Kingcreek's opinion of him though, he didn't seem self serving at all. I was impressed with Todd Vandermyde. He seems to have his act together.

BTW, it was a great day today, warm and rainy, but I spent it on the range, shooting the city's ammunition and teaching. :D

Jeff

[six 4 sure]

Gee you forget to click on Legal and Political for a week or so and you really miss out. I wouldn’t have been able to make the trip regardless, but many thanks to those that did.

I’m curious how the Gov and Daley are going to try to spin this while taking credit for all the $$$ the new “Shooting Complex” in Sparta is supposed to generate. How may of those instate guys shooting multi-thousand dollar over and unders want their name, address, and telephone # made available to the public. What makes this even more interesting is the fact there are rumors floating around my neck of the woods that the new “Shooting Complex” is in the process of negotiating a deal with the SASS for an event similar, equal too, or better than their year end “End of Trail” event. If such an event takes place it has the potential to pump large $$$$ into an economically depress part of the state. I wonder how many of those instate CAS would like their info published?

On a more positive note, I’d be interested in a IL THR shoot.

Six

[bad_dad_brad]

Chicago = Consistantly the murder capital of the U.S. Sure Mayor, your gun control works - not!

The only solution, my fellow downstate Illini, is to move out of state. Things will never change as long as Cook is a county in Illinois.

A pity as Illinois would be such a pleasant little Iowa without the hot air of the windy city.

[Jeff White]

Brad, don't move out of state yet. We seem to be gaining ground :D.

http://www.stltoday.com/stltoday/news/stories.nsf/News/Metro+East/532E80B6669C6A7586256E640018A40A?OpenDocument&Headline=Bills+would+allow+18-year-olds+to+own+handguns
Bills would allow 18-year-olds to own handguns
By Brian Wallheimer
Post-Dispatch Springfield Bureau
03/26/2004

SPRINGFIELD, Ill. - Gun rights advocates say being old enough to serve in the military and vote means a person should be able to buy a gun without parental permission, but their opponents say lowering the age requirement poses safety concerns.

Two bills, one in the Illinois House and one in the Senate, passed last week would allow 18-year-olds to get a firearm owners identification card without parental consent. Current law says anyone under 21 must have a parent's permission to get a firearm owners ID card, or FOID.

Illinois law requires an ID card to own a gun. Anyone 18 or older can buy a rifle or shotgun, but residents must be 21 to buy a handgun. Buyers of both types of guns must go through a background check.

"If you could get married and you could go to Iraq, you should be able to get an FOID card without your mother's permission," said Richard Pearson, executive director of the Illinois State Rifle Association, an affiliate of the National Rifle Association.

Gun control supporters say lowering the age requirements would come with negative consequences.

"This is an age group, with all due respect, that's just not as responsible as later on in life," said Thomas Mannard, executive director of the Illinois Council Against Handgun Violence. "The more available and accessible firearms are, the greater the rate of firearm injuries."

Mannard said his main concern was that gun owners don't have to go through any safety training before buying their weapons. He said allowing teens without safety training to own guns without parental knowledge would increase injuries and deaths from guns in that age group.

The law is the same in Missouri except that Missouri does not require ID cards.

State Rep. Ron Stephens, R-Mulberry Grove, said 18 year olds were old enough to make other important decisions and should be old enough to decide whether they should own a gun.

"They've been driving 3,000-pound cars down the interstate at 70 mph for two years, they just got done with paratrooper school at Fort Benning, they can make the most important decision in the world - choosing the president of the United States. It just doesn't make any sense," Stephens said.

State Rep. Wyvetter Younge, D-East St. Louis, said the military trains soldiers to use their weapons properly, something not all gun owners go through.

"Serving in the military is an entirely different matter than living in a community and trying to keep up the tranquility of that community," Younge said.

The measures have each passed in one house of the Legislature but would have to pass in the other before going to the governor. Rebecca Rausch, a spokeswoman for Blagojevich, said the governor had not taken a stand on the issue.

The bills are SB2163 and HB3989.

[44Brent]

http://www.chicagotribune.com/news/local/chi-0403270210mar27,1,1331132.story?coll=chi-news-hed

Gun curbs suffer setbacks
Downstate, suburban lawmakers outdueling Chicago on issue

By Ray Long and Molly Parker
Tribune staff reporters
Published March 27, 2004

SPRINGFIELD -- The Illinois Senate Friday approved legislation to allow retired police officers and former military police officers to carry concealed weapons, the latest example of a growing mood against gun control in the legislature despite the Democratic takeover of both chambers.

In addition to the concealed-carry measure, lawmakers in recent days have voted for bills that would lower the age to obtain a gun owner's permit without parental consent and allow a court to override enforcement of municipal handgun bans in cases where weapons are fired in self-defense.

The developments show the National Rifle Association and gun-rights advocates are making inroads around the edges of existing gun laws, critics of the legislation charge.

"I think what they're trying to do is erode what protections we have in place," said House Majority Leader Barbara Flynn Currie (D-Chicago).

Rather than attacking the few broad restrictions on weapons sales that are in place, Currie said, gun-rights activists appear to be adopting a "strategy of eating away at the principle that guns are a public health menace" by trying to do away with less-sweeping limits.

But Todd Vandermyde, an NRA lobbyist, said the gun-rights group was simply reflecting the will of its members as it pressed for looser gun laws. "We have an obligation to respond to our membership, and our membership wants us to one, protect their rights, and two, fight for their rights," Vandermyde said.

The votes on the gun measures tend to break along regional lines, with Chicago lawmakers opposed to relaxing restrictions and Downstate and many suburban lawmakers largely backing the changes.

Gov. Rod Blagojevich aggressively pushed for tougher gun-control measures when he served as a member of the U.S. House. But that stance caused him problems with Downstate voters in the Democratic governor's primary in 2002, and his advocacy for gun control has been far more muted since he has taken office.

Still, he pledged in a January interview with the Tribune to renew his efforts this spring.

He has yet to push any gun-control legislation of his own, however, and has so far been silent about whether he would approve the relaxation measures if they land on his desk. Aides said he needs more time to review the bills, which have won approval in different forms in the House and Senate.

"The governor hasn't even had a chance to be briefed on these bills," said Cheryle Jackson, Blagojevich's spokeswoman. "The governor has a very strong record in the fight against gun violence, and I'm certain that, should these bills ever reach his desk, he'll act accordingly."

Governor urged to act

Currie urged Blagojevich to show more leadership in fighting measures that roll back gun controls.

The governor said in the January interview that he would enthusiastically support gun-control measures such as ones pushed by Mayor Richard Daley to ban assault weapons and restrict the number of handguns a person could legally buy to one a month.

Movement on major pieces of the Daley package has stalled, and to date Blagojevich has not overtly wielded his influence to push it forward.

Sen. Jeff Schoenberg (D-Evanston), a gun-control advocate, said politicians who have "traditionally stood for tougher gun-control measures, including the governor, need to rethink the existing strategies because the gains that we've made in the past are slipping away. Politically, we're overmatched.

"The NRA has been pumping iron and flexing all week, and we're getting sand kicked in our faces," Schoenberg said. "I don't think we can simply allow this to continue."

On Thursday, the NRA successfully pushed separate bills through the House and Senate that would lower to 18 from 21 the age at which a person may apply for a firearm owner's identification card without a parent's permission.

Vote backs self-defense

Also on Thursday, the Senate approved NRA-backed legislation inspired by a Wilmette man who shot an intruder in his home and then was charged with violating the village's handgun ban. The legislation, similar to a bill that the House has passed, would allow self-defense as a legal argument in such municipal cases.

The NRA took a neutral position on the concealed-carry bill that was passed Friday, not because it didn't like the idea but because the group didn't think the measure went far enough, Vandermyde said. The NRA believes all law-abiding citizens should be allowed to carry concealed weapons, he said.

The concealed-carry bill would authorize the Illinois State Police to issue concealed weapon permits to retired local, state and federal police officers as well as former members of the military police. To qualify for the permits, the retirees would also have to have at least 10 years' experience at their former law-enforcement positions as well as hold valid firearm-owner's cards, supporters said.

The legislation, if it were to become law, would also require that an applicant have graduated from a police academy or training institute.

The measure is sponsored by Sen. Ed Petka (R-Plainfield), a former Will County state's attorney. In debate Friday, he said retired police and MPs should be allowed to carry concealed weapons as a protection against retribution from someone they may have once confronted on the job.

"The individuals who would be asking for this permit are individuals who we've already given the honor and the trust in protecting us in society, not only domestically, but also perhaps foreign," Petka said.

The Senate this week did pass two minor pieces of Daley-backed gun legislation that would stiffen penalties against people who use guns to commit crimes. But more-controversial gun initiatives backed by the mayor are not moving.

Sen. Iris Martinez (D-Chicago), a gun-control advocate, warned that people are becoming too "laid back about violence."

But Rep. Mike Bost (R-Murphysboro) said Downstate residents grow up around guns and so have learned to deal with them responsibly.

"We don't have the fear of them," Bost said. "The only time someone in an inner city sees a gun, either a police officer is carrying it or it's being used in a crime."

The measure was passed 40-12, with most opposition coming from Chicago-area Democrats. One who backed the measure, however, was State Sen. Barack Obama (D-Chicago), the Democratic nominee for U.S. Senate.

Obama, a liberal who is trying to broaden his appeal to Downstate voters for the Senate race, said he voted for the bill because law-enforcement officers may be "more vulnerable and need protection" and because they're experienced and trained in handling firearms.

"I don't think anybody thought that this was going to be somehow opening the door to the Wild West," Obama said.

[Jeff White]

Received this letter from State Senator John O Jones today:

April 5, 2004

Mr. Jeffrey L White, Sr.
XXXX XXXXXXX XX
Alma, IL 62807

Dear Jeffrey:

Thank you for your recent communication regarding SB2163, SB 2165 and SB2386.

As you can see by the enclosed "Roll Calls" I did support each of these bills when they came before the Illinois Senate for a vote.

Senate Bill 2163 passed the Illinois Senate with a vote of 30-26-0. Currently Senate Bill 2163 is in First Reading and has been assigned to the rules committee of the House of Representatives. Representatives Brandon Phelps and Careen Gordon have signed on as co-sponsors. At this point you will need to contact your State Representative and ask for their support.

Senate Bill 2165 passed the Illinois Sentate with a vote of 38-20-0. Senate Bill 2165 is on First Reading and is also in the Rules Committee of the House of Representatives and Representatives John Bradley, Careen Gordon and Ropbert Flider have signed on as sponsors.

Senate Bill 2386 passed the Illinois Senate unaimously with a vote of 56-0-0. Senate Bill 2386 is on First Reading in the House of Representatives and also assigned to the Rules Committee of the House of Representatives. Representatives Sidney Mathias, Paul Froehlich and Eddie Washington have signed on as sponsors.

At this point, you will need to contact your State Representative and ask for their support on these bills.

I appreciate your taking the time to let me know how you feel on these issues. Correspondence from my constituants is important and I appreciate you letting me know your thoughts.

Very Sincerely,

/S/
John O. Jones
Senator
54th District

My son also received the same letter with the attachments.

According to the IL Legislature's website, SB2165 which is the affirmative defense for possessing a firearm in violation of local ordinances has now been assigned to the House Judiciary II - Criminal Law subcommittee. That happened 30 March.

A look at these bills on the Illinois State Legislature's website will tell you some interesting things about gun control in Illinois. It's not a democrat/republican issue here. The co-sponsors of SB2386 are in the Senate:
George Shadid (D), Vince Demuzio (D), William R. Haine (D), Edward Petka (R), Peter J. Roskam (R), Todd Sieben (R), Gary Forby (D), Christine Radogno (R), Kathleen L. Wojcik (R), John M. Sullivan (D), Dale E. Risinger (R), Bill Brady (R), Lawrence M. Walsh (D) and Barack Obama (D)

In the House:
Sidney H. Mathias (R), Paul D. Froehlich (R), Eddie Washington (D)

Even Obama who is running for the US Senate as a traditional liberal has signed on. Perhaps Obama who is facing a run for statewide office feels he has to distance himself from Chicago and Daley to have a chance downstate.

Jeff

[foghornl]

Top answer lee n. field's question

Short of walling off Chicagometropolitanarea and declaring it a seperate country, what can we do?
Maybe bulldozing it into the Lake like Emperor DICK Daley II did with the Meigs Field runway......