.257 Roberts


PDA






jimmyraythomason
May 18, 2013, 09:23 PM
Anybody here load/reload the .257 Roberts round?

If you enjoyed reading about ".257 Roberts" here in TheHighRoad.org archive, you'll LOVE our community. Come join TheHighRoad.org today for the full version!
greyling22
May 18, 2013, 10:14 PM
I reload a 257 roberts ackley improved. close enough?

beatledog7
May 18, 2013, 10:16 PM
I reload the Bob.

rcmodel
May 18, 2013, 10:21 PM
Just a 25-06 I built a couple of years before Remington made it a commercial caliber.

But that has nothing to do with a Bob I guess.

rc

Cemetery21
May 18, 2013, 10:35 PM
Yes sir. I've loaded for 3 different Roberts since the '70s off and on. Current load is 87 gr. Hornady with WW 760.

jimmyraythomason
May 18, 2013, 10:41 PM
I'm looking to buy a handful of loaded rounds with 85-90 grn bullets. Purpose is for testing a barrel that is keyholing with 117 grn. bullets. Barrel is 22",1:10 twist.

Cemetery21
May 18, 2013, 11:13 PM
Shilen's chart shows 1 in 10 is good for up to 100 gr.
http://www.shilen.com/calibersAndTwists.html

rcmodel
May 18, 2013, 11:57 PM
Shilen's chart shows 1 in 10 is good for up to 100 gr.Something is wrong with the chart then.


1-10 should be good for 117 too, as that was a standard bullet weight from the factories in .257 Roberts for many many years.

The 117 needs to be a fairly semi-pointed, flat-base spitzer however, and not a real long plastic-tip, low-drag boat-tail.

Whatever the problem is, isn't a 117 grain bullet flat base soft-point bullet, as that was a standard factory load for years & years in the Bob's glory days when it made it's reputation.

rc

NCsmitty
May 19, 2013, 12:01 AM
I think you know that if the 117 is a boat tail, it may be too long to stabilize properly, especially if you're not not pushing the upper end of the velocity potential. If you insist on using that weight, then the flat base Sierra Pro-Hunter will likely work better in your Bob.
The heavy 117-120 boat tail bullets work better in 25-06 size cases with the higher velocity potential.

And I see rc beat me round toit.


NCsmitty

CD8226
May 19, 2013, 02:01 AM
This is the reason I want my 257's in a long action. I have owned several over the years and I loved them all. I personally think the 117 is a little heavy for this cartridge. I shot a lot of 85-87-100 grainers through them over the years. Worked on everything from yotes, to whitetails, to antelope. Hunted mule deer with it but never able to connect with one.

jimmyraythomason
May 23, 2013, 11:44 AM
The bullet I was using that keyholed was Winchester 117 grn Power Point +P. I haven't tried another type bullet. I do have some 117 grn Remington Core-lokts that I haven't tried.

crestoncowboy
May 23, 2013, 02:05 PM
I load for a Remington bdl mountain rifle, I have had good luck out of every bullet but the 87 gr berger match hps. my favorites are the 100 gr nosler ballistic tips, and they are cheap from walmart.

jimmyraythomason
May 23, 2013, 07:35 PM
and they are cheap from walmart. Maybe where you live. My Wal-Mart Super Center has NO .257 Roberts ammo(never have had) and no reloading equipment/components.

GooseGestapo
May 24, 2013, 04:20 PM
I've loaded for the one I had built in 1983, and four others.
There's no problems with the .257Robt. It's actually (with reloads) much better than the .243win that "killed" it off.

I've shot bullets from 75gr to 120gr. Only problem I've encountered was with a batch of Hornady 117gr BtSpt's. There was obviously two different lot#s of bullets in the box of 100. One lot# had very shiney jackets and a sharp edge around the base and a extruded demple on the base. These gave jacket seperations and were quickly sorted after I figured it out. However, they shot well to 100yds but destabilized and tumbled past 100yds. I didn't figure it out until I'd wasted 11 shots at 5 different mule deer on a Montana out-of-state hunt in '93. We kept thinking it was the shooter (me) or the rifle. After checking the rifle at 250yds and finding I couldn't hit a 3'x3' target, I switched to some 85gr Nosler Balistic Tips I'd loaded for prararie dogs. I got my muley on the next shot at 370yds. Day after, got over 40 prararie dogs out to 400+yds with remaining ammo... (85gr BalisticTips at 3,400fps over Win760).
Hornady did make good and replaced the box of bullets and sent me a coupon for additional discounts/rebates...

My favorite bullet "big-game" is the 117gr Sierra GameKing. Super bullet through either my Roberts or the .257wbymag. Always sub moa from every gun I've ever shot them through. However the 120gr HP GameKing (not a boattail) is also superb. They shoot 1-hole groups from both my Roberts and friends Interarms MkX in .25/06 (three shots. It'll do it repetitively, but not every time... sometimes the "wind" will get you!)

Another superlative bullet is the Hornady 100gr Spt. My tighest group ever with the .257robt was shot at 200yds over 48.5gr of H4831 (original surplus) and the 100gr Hornady at 3.000" (I have the "so-called" 3" chamber). It chrono's right at 3,000fps. Three shots touched.... but no-wind evening near sunset and no mirage...

Another "classic" Roberts load is 45.0gr of IMR4350 w/100gr bullet for 3,000fps. It shoots under MOA from my E.R.Shaw bbl and has taken over 100 whitetail deer including the three largest one's I've ever taken (over 200lbs dressed). My wife on oldest daughter too their first deer with the "Mr. Roberts" as my oldest daughter calls it.

The 100gr Hornady PtSpt is a "do all" bullet from the Roberts. It'll do anything the 115-120's will do. From my .257wbymag @ 3,700fps, it'll "stay" in a smallish deer at under 100yds. They'll be under the hide on the far side in a ~65gr "ball"... The "Interlok" feature works just as good as the much more expensive Nosler "Partitions". All three of the biggest deer I've killed were with the 100gr (2) or the 117gr Hornady BtSpt. Only one of the 117's have been recovered, and it weighed 109gr after penetrating rib, torso, and humerous of +200lb deer at ~240yds. Deer "broke" a 250lb scale I hung it from (field-dressed). I didn't think the deer was that big at first but several people commented on how big it was and encouraged me to weigh it.... It was "hanging" out of the bed of a Nissan pickup and sagging the springs.... It wasn't a "fat" deer, but very long, tall, and "rangey" as one taxidermist called it. Had an unremarkable 8pt rack and teeth suggested it was 7+yrs old.

But, I've never had a .25" Sierra shed a jacket, and with the better accuracy prefer them, however, for the past 4yrs, it's been hard to get Sierras.

It's a very rare Roberts that won't stabilize a conventional 117-120gr bullet. I've never seen one. However, I've heard of some early custom guns built from .250Savage bbls with a 1/12" twist that didn't like 110+gr bullets.
Only "issue" I've run into loading for the Roberts was a Browning BLR and A-bolt that have very, very, short throats. They required seating the bullets to SAAMI spec's to chamber properly. But, same powder charges worked nominally.

If you do get a Roberts and handload, do try IMR3031. It's a "sleeper" powder. At just 38.0gr it gives the "desired" 3,000fps with a 100gr bullet and excellent accuracy. It was the only truly MOA load from a Ruger M77MkII I had. I sold the Ruger for a $100 gain and bought an "orphaned" Ruger M77MkII "Hawkeye" "Alaksan" in .375Ruger. It's reliably a MOA gun (3-shots) and a thrill to shoot.... Especially enjoyable after I installed a Pachmayer Declerator "Old English" pad and moved the forward sling stud to the front face of the forend.
H4350 is my #2 powder.... Better velocity than IMR, but IMR is more accurate. YMMV

Clark
May 24, 2013, 05:14 PM
I like 72 gr Berger or 75 gr Vmax for punching paper.

I like the 115 gr Nosler ballistic tip for punching deer.

beatledog7
May 24, 2013, 07:10 PM
My Bob is a short action Browning, and that's just fine for me since I load it light to moderate so I can just enjoy getting hits and not get beaten up by recoil. I know, the Bob doesn't recoil hard anyway, but loaded light it's just about the ideal centerfire teaching rifle. I can load long cartridges, just can't feed them from the rather cramped magazine. But I sure do love A-Bolts!

If I want to shoot fast and long--well, that's what 7mm Rem Mag handloads are for.

murf
May 24, 2013, 07:50 PM
maybe you should check your barrel twist.

murf

PRD1
May 24, 2013, 08:05 PM
a good Roberts-chambered 10" pitch barrel should stabilize any normally available .257" bullet up to 120 grains.
Like another poster, my favorite bullet has always been the 117gr. Sierra, which has shot exceptionally well out of several factory and custom Roberts rifles, all with 10" pitch barrels.
First thing to do is check actual pitch in your barrel.
PRD1 - mhb - Mike

jimmyraythomason
May 24, 2013, 08:33 PM
First thing to do is check actual pitch in your barrel.
That was the first thing I did. Using the tight patch and rotating cleaning rod method. It rotated one complete revolution in 10 inches.

PRD1
May 25, 2013, 02:46 PM
I have not seen any description of your actual rifle - commercial, custom, details?
The next thing I'd do is measure the bore and/or groove diameter of the barrel - you can do this closely enough with a vernier caliper. The reason I mention this is that I have actually examined a European-built .257 Roberts chambered and marked rifle which had been assembled with a .256 bore (6.5mm) barrel - which shot exactly as you describe.

PRD1 - mhb - mike

Hanshi
May 25, 2013, 07:13 PM
My .257 Roberts is a Rem 700 Classic that I bought when they chambered that run for that cartridge back in the 1980s. I use to have a nice Ruger 77 in the 70s but the throat was simply way too long. I reload mine with 100 grn bullets of various makes and either 49.0 grns of IMR4831 for 3200fps or 48 grns of IMR4350 for 3131fps. I currently have some 117 grn & 115 grn bullets I intend to try. I've killed several deer with the 100grn bullet loads and it drops them like lightening.

Curiously, while I consider the Roberts a super deer round, I've never been able to get the level of accuracy from the round that I get from my 250/3000(s).

jimmyraythomason
May 26, 2013, 12:17 AM
I have not seen any description of your actual rifle - commercial, custom, details?
The next thing I'd do is measure the bore and/or groove diameter of the barrel This is a custom Gew 98 with aftermarket barrel,the bore looks excellent and slugs .256'' across the lands(.266'' @ grooves).

Jim Watson
May 26, 2013, 12:45 AM
Well, that's the problem.
A Real American .257 Roberts is about .258" in the grooves and shoots a bullet of that diameter.
You have no hope of a .266" barrel doing anything with a .258" bullet.

That is even a little large for a 6.5mm with typical American .264" bullet but will probably shoot them ok.

Looks like you have a 6.5x57 or a 6.5x.257 Roberts, which latter most seen in rechambered Arisakas.

I'd recommend a chamber cast to see if the neck and throat were large enough for .264" bullets to fit the barrel.

jimmyraythomason
May 26, 2013, 08:57 AM
When I had the barrel installed,I had it chambered for .257 Roberts so I am sure of the chambering(it was done by a well known smith in Alabama). I bought the barrel as a .257 but it had no markings on it.Looks like you have a 6.5x57 I believe you're right Jim...which is okay..but I had rather have a Bob!

jimmyraythomason
May 26, 2013, 08:59 AM
Many thanks to everyone for your help! It is greatly appreciated!

Jim Watson
May 26, 2013, 06:02 PM
If he ran a .257 reamer into a 6.5mm barrel blank, the chamber neck will be way undersize for 6.5x57 and will need to be enlarged to handle proper ammo.

jimmyraythomason
May 26, 2013, 06:15 PM
the chamber neck will be way undersize for 6.5x57 and will need to be enlarged to handle proper ammo Agreed,I did a diminsions comparison between the .257 Roberts and the 6.5x57 and saw that. I'm wondering about 6.5x257 Roberts(like for the Arisaka).

PRD1
May 26, 2013, 08:45 PM
I'm glad we solved the mystery.
The 6.5x57mm is an excellent cartridge, and you could easily modify the existing chamber by having a competent gunsmith run a necking reamer into the chamber, followed by a throater to suit the bullet you want to use at the OAL you decide on. I make the distinction about the 'smith because that was a pretty egregious booboo the first guy made in not noticing what caliber the barrel actually is.
Having said that, I would not personally recommend using a barrel with groove diameter as much as .002" over the standard for 6.5mm, as I have not found such barrels to produce the best accuracy, or to resist erosion and gas cutting as well as a barrel of standard interior dimensions.
Were the rifle mine, and what I wanted was a Roberts, I'd have the rifle rebarreled - probably by another gunsmith.

PRD1- mhb - Mike

jimmyraythomason
September 26, 2013, 11:49 PM
Okay,time for an update. I finally got around to sending it back to my 'smith. He verified that it was a 6.5 bore. He is setting the barrel back and chambering it for 6.5x55 Swede cartridge. I'll give a range report when I get the opportunity.

morcey2
September 27, 2013, 01:25 PM
Totally useless cartridge. It won't even take down a rabbit, let alone a deer or anything else. What else can you expect from a bunch of pasty Scandinavians? ;)

Ok. So I'm building one too. :) I've always wanted a swede. And I epitomize the pasty Scandinavian. Let us know how it shoots.

Matt

jimmyraythomason
September 27, 2013, 01:32 PM
I almost opted for the 6.5x57mm Mauser but went with the Swede because of ammo availability. I think I would have been happy with either. I am still going to build a .257 Roberts on a Turk K.Kale receiver in the future. Probably with a new short chambered barrel from Brownell's.

mljdeckard
September 27, 2013, 05:46 PM
I have many (a couple of hundred) cases sized and primed, I have not loaded them. I have my dad's old Remington 760, I plan on full-length sizing and normal pressure.

(Mine is a Bob, not a Swede.)

morcey2
September 27, 2013, 06:28 PM
So, would a 6.5-257 be called a Swoberts? :) (slightly different than 6.5x57, but not by much, at least according to my recollection)

I was in a LGS last week talking about my 257 that I'm building (glass bedding done and first application of BLO done) and one of the customers told me that it was a completely useless cartridge in Utah and I was wasting my time building one. I should be building at least a 300 Win Mag, since that's what you need to kill the apparently armor-plated muleys that we have here. The guy behind the counter pointed at the perfectly symmetrical 4-point (western scoring) mule deer head on the wall and said that he shot that one with a 257 loaded with partitions at between 250 and 300 yards. The customer more or less called him a liar and was asked to leave.

I've become a big fan of the more mid-range cartridges. My 30-06 is about as powerful as I get since I value my retinas and shoulders. The 6.5mm and 7mm midrange cartridges are great. 260 rem, 6.5x55, 6.5x57, 6.5 CM, 7-08, 7x57, and a few others I'm probably forgetting. Good BC and SD, lots of bullet choices, and manageable recoil.

Matt

mljdeckard
September 27, 2013, 11:37 PM
My dad said his whole life that the Bob made him look like a really good shot. One of the last deer he killed was on a private piece in Monticello, 200 yards one shot. He put peep-through rings on it, because he missed more than one shot in the brush.

If someone told me a .257 wasn't good enough for deer, I would flat tell them they need to shoot better. And yeah. I've met that guy at the LGS too. (I'm starting my sister on a .243.) With better rifles, optics, and ammo than our grandfathers grew up with, it's less true than ever.

jimmyraythomason
September 28, 2013, 01:13 PM
So, would a 6.5-257 be called a Swoberts? More like an Arisoberts since it was loaded for the Type 38 Arisaka(before 6.5x50mm Jap ammo was available).

zeke
September 28, 2013, 01:31 PM
"my Bob is a short action Browning, and that's just fine for me since I load it light to moderate so I can just enjoy getting hits and not get beaten up by recoil. I know, the Bob doesn't recoil hard anyway, but loaded light it's just about the ideal centerfire teaching rifle. I can load long cartridges, just can't feed them from the rather cramped magazine. But I sure do love A-Bolts"


Have the Browning 257 Roberts featherweight, and hogged out the spacer in front of mag to allow longer COL, and closer to the lands loading.

jimmyraythomason
October 9, 2013, 05:32 PM
Range report <http://www.thehighroad.org/showthread.php?p=9150778#post9150778>

jimmyraythomason
October 9, 2013, 05:34 PM
I guess if I still want a .257 Roberts there is always my K.Kale Turk receiver......

morcey2
October 9, 2013, 08:27 PM
More like an Arisoberts since it was loaded for the Type 38 Arisaka(before 6.5x50mm Jap ammo was available).
That sounds too much like a skin disease. :) It doesn't roll of the tongue like Swoberts does. ;)

The K.Kale would make a fine Bob rifle.

If you enjoyed reading about ".257 Roberts" here in TheHighRoad.org archive, you'll LOVE our community. Come join TheHighRoad.org today for the full version!