A Horseman's Holster


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Vern Humphrey
May 21, 2013, 07:09 PM
In another thread, I was asked to post a picture of my holster for single action revolvers. This is one I have used for quite a while -- a plain, working holster.

As you can see, this holster is different from the standard Three Persons Holster. For one thing, I spend a lot of time on horseback (the bowie knife is for hacking through brambles and branches in the Ozarks.) A gun that exposes the trigger guard and leaves half the gun hanging out like a starlett's boobs on opening night is going to result in a lost or damaged gun. If you need a thong to hold your gun in the holster, by the time you get back from bashing through the woods, your holster will be empty.

With this design the holster "swallows" the gun and keeps it safe. And the holster is formed to the gun for greater security.

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CraigC
May 21, 2013, 07:46 PM
deleted...

Vern Humphrey
May 21, 2013, 07:52 PM
So it basically just covers the triggerguard, has a slightly deeper throat and NO retention? What is so magical about an uncovered triggerguard that your sixgun will become lost or damaged, but covering it will prevent it?

This holster has retained my gun even when a horse was actively trying to make my saddle not retain me.
Have you actually used a Threepersons? How many guns have you lost from one?

I've seen a gun fall from a Threepersons -- it wasn't my gun.
If the holster is properly fitted to the sixgun, you will have to turn it upside down for the sixgun to fall out. Which is exactly how the one you critiqued is fitted. The thong does not hold the gun in the holster. It is only there for added security when necessary.
In my opinion, for a horseman's holster, a thong should not be necessary.

Even without the hammer thong, the sixgun is not going to fall out or get damaged unless you get thrown off your horse.
Something that occasionally happens when riding:

"Never a hoss that couldn't be rode
"Never a man that couldn't be throwed.";)

And for the record, some people do more strenuous things than riding a horse while wearing these holsters. I've been using them for years doing all sorts of things and have never lost a sixgun or had one damaged.
Well, I've made about 400 parachute jumps, and fought as a Mechanized Rifle Company commander -- is that strenuous enough for you?

Clippers
May 21, 2013, 09:00 PM
Nice holster. I usually carry my SP101 when I ride using this simple holster. Even got bucked off the other day and the holster held my SP101 tight to my side.

Cosmoline
May 21, 2013, 09:21 PM
I like that design Vern. I'm not a big fan of exposing firearms to the elements more than is needed. I usually have a flap holster but those are slow to get into. Yours looks like a good compromise.

Pointshoot
May 22, 2013, 03:09 PM
Vern: "A gun that exposes the trigger guard and leaves half the gun hanging out like a starlett's boobs on opening night is going to result in a lost or damaged gun"

<chuckle>

Now that has got to be one of the classic lines written here at The High Road ! :D

rayban
May 22, 2013, 05:54 PM
Too bad you couldn't have had the holster made by the same guy who did the knife sheath.

rayban
May 22, 2013, 06:03 PM
I usually carry my SP101 when I ride using this simple holster. Even got bucked off the other day and the holster held my SP101 tight to my side.

That's a cool thing about a well made pancake such as yours, as you cinch up it pulls that top layer of leather tightly against you.
Nice looking holster.

Vern Humphrey
May 22, 2013, 10:27 PM
Too bad you couldn't have had the holster made by the same guy who did the knife sheath.
Randall has all his output tied up until around 2214.:p

The Bushmaster
May 25, 2013, 10:44 AM
I've been using a Bianchi "Lawman" holster for a Ruger 6 1/2" Blackhawk. The trigger guard is exposed and it uses a strap and snap to retain the weapon. I, too, am a horseman and ride high mountain trails (Cascades and the Bitterroots) and the rough country of the Ozark "foot hills". I, also, have had a few "unauthorized" dismounts and have never lost the Ruger from my holster. Though I have damaged a few grip panels in the "upside down" landings.

Vern Humphrey
May 25, 2013, 11:00 AM
My point is, the snap and strap are not needed if the holster properly contains the gun.

CraigC
May 25, 2013, 11:31 AM
Virtually any properly fitted holster, including the one you're deriding, will retain the handgun. Snaps and thongs are just insurance. Believe it or not, some people actually put some effort and thought into this. Believe it or not, you're not the only one that actually "uses" them outdoors.

Vern Humphrey
May 25, 2013, 11:49 AM
Tell ya what -- I'll arrange for you to ride a certain horse I know, and you can test your theory.:p

Derry 1946
May 25, 2013, 11:56 AM
Vern-- looks like a great rig to me. Happy trails! Derry

The Bushmaster
May 25, 2013, 08:40 PM
I ain't riding that horse..!! I have enough troubles with my "independent, I'll do it my way" mare.

No arguement intended, Vern. Just mention another way to carry on horse back.

Vern Humphrey
May 25, 2013, 09:01 PM
You don't want to ride the Strawberry Roan?:D

The Bushmaster
May 25, 2013, 11:36 PM
So that's where he went...I was wondering. And NO!!

Vern Humphrey
May 26, 2013, 10:37 AM
For those who just tuned in, the Strawberry Roan is the legendary horse no one can ride.

"I know there're some ponies I cannot ride
Some are still livin' -- they haven't all died
And I'll bet all my money, there's no man alive
Can stay on old Strawberry when he does his High Dive."

The Bushmaster
May 26, 2013, 10:46 AM
The Strawberry Roan---Marty Robbins. From the album "Big Iron"

OurSafeHome.net
May 26, 2013, 03:12 PM
While assigned to the USMC Mounted Color Guard, I learned, the hard way, that a lanyard is a Very Good Thing<tm>.

"Detail, halt!"
"Lets go back and look for my forty-five..."
:rolleyes:

Mobuck
May 26, 2013, 04:09 PM
Truthfully, I prefer a cross draw with safety strap.

Vern Humphrey
May 26, 2013, 06:31 PM
While assigned to the USMC Mounted Color Guard, I learned, the hard way, that a lanyard is a Very Good Thing<tm>.

"Detail, halt!"
"Lets go back and look for my forty-five..."
Having also made a few hundred parachute jumps, I am a big fan of a lanyard on a pistol.

Certaindeaf
May 26, 2013, 06:53 PM
I Swinglined some leather together once. true story

rayban
May 28, 2013, 07:26 AM
I would think cross draw made a lot of sense if one spent a lot of time on a horse....til Hollywood came along...

the Black Spot
May 28, 2013, 10:43 AM
I like the holster, but i would still add the thong because i would invariably go thru some brush and cock the hammer. Thong would prevent that.

Old Fuff
May 28, 2013, 11:05 AM
For what it's worth, a historical perspective...

This past weekend I watched an auction that among other things had a substantual collection of original frontier era holsters - sometimes with cartridge belts. Estimated dates ran from the California Gold Rush to possibly mid 1950's. As might be expected only the late ones had Threeperson style exposed tigger guards, and none - absolutely none - had any kind of hammer loop, although half and full flap designs were well represented.

I have no doubt that some did use hammer loops for additional security, but apparently it wasn't as common as some think.

Vern Humphrey
May 28, 2013, 11:22 AM
If you make them right, no thong is needed.

And you have a point -- the old timers were real horsemen. My great grandfather rode from Nebraska to Oklahoma to get land. They worked, slept on the trail, and herded cattle -- and they knew what kind of gear worked.

CraigC
May 28, 2013, 12:52 PM
Slim Jim's and Mexican loop designs don't need one. The ears should come up high enough to cover the hammer and the triggerguard should knuckle in when holstered. Again, a revolver should not just "fall out" of a properly fitted holster. The Threepersons doesn't "need" retention. Like I've said multiple times, I almost never use the thong while wearing one and some of do a lot more strenuous things than trot around on a horse while using them. They certainly don't "need" a strap. Some people just like them for added security. People like Elmer Keith, who probably spent a mile or two in the saddle. Like every other holster on the market with a strap. I assume you've contacted Bianchi and Galco to let them know how poorly their holsters are designed?


If you make them right...
I guess you know all about that. Apparently, all it takes is to fold a piece of leather in half and crudely stitch it together around a sixgun to make one an expert on holster design and construction.

PS, again, your hammer is exposed. Which makes the point "the Black Spot" made valid. Keeping the sixgun from "falling out" is not the only purpose for the thong/strap. All you have over the Threepersons is a covered triggerguard. Which, for a single action revolver, nets you zero.

MasterSergeantA
May 28, 2013, 02:53 PM
Having also made a few hundred parachute jumps, I am a big fan of a lanyard on a pistol.
And having gone back out on the road in northern Iraq to find the pistol that an Air Force PA 'dropped' while tending to a wounded soldier on the side of the road, so am I!

Vern Humphrey
May 28, 2013, 04:47 PM
And having gone back out on the road in northern Iraq to find the pistol that an Air Force PA 'dropped' while tending to a wounded soldier on the side of the road, so am I!
Nothing like finding your holster empty when you get home.:p

Corpral_Agarn
May 28, 2013, 04:47 PM
I spend a lot of time on horseback myself.
I am a younger fella so I'm not gonna pretend to know everything, and I do most of my riding in the Sierra Nevada's here in CA and we do a lot of cantering and jump a lot of logs chasing cows and out on the back country trails. And any one who's ridden long has met a horse like that strawberry roan. For me, she's a palomino mare ;)

Now I respect everyone's opinion (as soon as I think I have it all figured out, that's usually the exact moment that I DON'T), but If it were me, I would take the added security of a thong or thumb strap on ANY holster, not just threeperson's.

I use a Kirk Patrick "Big Jake" (http://www.kirkpatrickleather.com/old-west/big-jake-15) quite a bit and while I know its more of a "hollywood" style holster, it works really well. It has good retention of the revolver but I put the thong on there anyway. The chances that I get into "horse trouble" or need to really move are MUCH greater than actually needing my revolver while on horseback. Things like "getting the hell-outa-here" take precedence over "draw and shoot!" while mounted.
I figure if stuff really goes down bad, I won't be using that revolver till I am forcefully dismounted (ejected) anyway.

There's a cool article you can check out that has some detail on old cowboys and their gear. It seems that most of them didn't often ride with pistols (one more thing to land on?). http://www.nps.gov/history/history/online_books/thro1/rickey.pdf

Vern Humphrey
May 28, 2013, 05:32 PM
Fascinating.

My grandfather was a cowboy in the Cherokee Strip prior to 1895, and in later life was a member of the Cherokee Strip Cowpunchers Association. My uncle was a cowboy on the 101 Ranch in the 1920s.

My grandfather was also an early Highway Patrolman. He was wearing a Smith and Wesson .38 Special in a holster very similar to the on I show in the picture, when he was killed in the line of duty in 1927. The gun and holster are still in the family, with the scars from the pavement on the holster.

Handguns were often carried, according to Grandpa and Uncle Carroll, in chaps pockets or saddle bags -- to protect the gun from the weather. My uncle witnessed a shooting where the shooter, sitting at a camp fire and leaning against his saddle, reached back and took his gun from the saddle bag to kill his opponent.

The Texas practice of shooting at a post while riding at a gallop dates back to Sull Ross and Jack Hayes -- Texas Ranger captains. The Comanche fought mounted, often holding a bow and a half-dozen arrows in the left hand, and shooting as fast as they could draw and loose. To counter that, the Rangers had to be able to shoot with reasonable accuracy at a full gallop.

As for two-handed shooting, Elmer Kieth, who was cowboying about the same time as my uncle, used two-handed holds, as well as shooting prone and supine.

As for the Colt being so dominant, I suspect a lot of other brands saw a lot of use -- the famous photograph of Cimmaron Rose shows her holding a Merwin and Hulbert revolver, for example. The outlaw Bill Doolin (of the Doolin/Dalton Gang) carried a Smith and Wesson, with a single shot derringer in his boot. And Jesse James also carried a pair of Smith and Wessons.

Corpral_Agarn
May 28, 2013, 06:10 PM
Fascinating.

Now that could be taken 2 ways but being that we are neighbors here on THR, you have the benefit of the doubt. :)
If I got that wrong, then go ahead and correct me.
As an aside: I genuinely enjoy these discussions of the old days and how things were done by our ancestors and like to hear different accounts.

My grandfather was a cowboy in the Cherokee Strip prior to 1895, and in later life was a member of the Cherokee Strip Cowpunchers Association. My uncle was a cowboy on the 101 Ranch in the 1920s.

My grandfather was also an early Highway Patrolman. He was wearing a Smith and Wesson .38 Special in a holster very similar to the on I show in the picture, when he was killed in the line of duty in 1927. The gun and holster are still in the family, with the scars from the pavement on the holster.

Well he seems amply qualified to speak on the subject and I am sorry to hear that he was killed. I am sure he was a good man. I pray that his knowledge is not lost to the ages, and it seems that you have retained much of it. I appreciate you sharing it with us.
FWIW, I don't think anyone is questioning your folks account of "how it was back in the day". My family has been running cattle for a little over 100 years and my grandfather and great grandfather have their own stories. In my opinion they are all pretty fun to listen to. Also, Great Granddad (quite the horseman himself, by all accounts) carried a pistol on horseback everywhere in a holster and used it on multiple occasions from horseback. (also roped a coyote one time... :cool:)

Handguns were often carried, according to Grandpa and Uncle Carroll, in chaps pockets or saddle bags -- to protect the gun from the weather. My uncle witnessed a shooting where the shooter, sitting at a camp fire and leaning against his saddle, reached back and took his gun from the saddle bag to kill his opponent.

Thought we were talking belt holsters? At least that's what I was referring to. Still sounds like a pretty cool story, though. It brings many questions on details, for me though (and only because accounts like that are rare and fun to learn about): About what time period did that happen? What happened to your uncle after?

The Texas practice of shooting at a post while riding at a gallop dates back to Sull Ross and Jack Hayes -- Texas Ranger captains. The Comanche fought mounted, often holding a bow and a half-dozen arrows in the left hand, and shooting as fast as they could draw and loose. To counter that, the Rangers had to be able to shoot with reasonable accuracy at a full gallop.

I've only read a little on the Rangers (enough to know that they were some pretty gnarly dudes) and that's darned impressive, but I don't shoot guns off my horse and don't intend to unless I absolutely have to. I do use an Australian stock whip from horseback but it is 11' long (total) and the sound is very directional. I would think that the noise from shooting would be damaging to the horse? IDK.
Do you shoot from your horse? If so, it would be pretty cool to get some insights on that. BTW, do you know what distance the Rangers were shooting at when they were shooting those posts? Might be a cool thing for me to look into.
Thanks!

Vern Humphrey
May 28, 2013, 06:18 PM
Now that could be taken 2 ways but being that we are neighbors here on THR, you have the benefit of the doubt.
I simply meant the study was fascinating. I've saved it.

FWIW, I don't think anyone is questioning your folks account of "how it was back in the day". My family has been running cattle for a little over 100 years and my grandfather and great grandfather have their own stories. In my opinion they are all pretty fun to listen to. Also, Great Granddad (quite the horseman himself, by all accounts) carried a pistol on horseback everywhere in a holster and used it on multiple occasions from horseback. (also roped a coyote one time... )
My uncle roped a deer -- and had the hoofprints literally stamped in the seat of his saddle to prove it.

Thought we were talking belt holsters? At least that's what I was referring to.
The point was, handguns were carried a lot of different ways.

Do you shoot from your horse? If so, it would be pretty cool to get some insights on that.
I train horses to be calm when they hear shooting -- by feeding them and firing a .22 pistol. I don't shoot from my horses, but have trained horses for Cowboy Shooting, which requires mounted shooting. I use ear plugs on the horses, but the old-time horse cavalryment simply shot close to the horses' ears and deliberately deafened them.

My use for a horse trained to be calm when I shoot is for deer hunting. I've ridden up on many a herd of deer, piled out of the saddle with a .30-30 and shot under the horse's neck.

BTW, do you know what distance the Rangers were shooting at when they were shooting those posts? Might be a cool thing for me to look into.
Point blank range. The key is to get so close you can't miss before shooting.

Corpral_Agarn
May 28, 2013, 06:41 PM
I don't want to get too far off-topic but, Vern, its too bad you live so far away. I feel like comparing notes with you would be a lot of fun. And roping a deer would be a heck of a thing to watch! :D
I started doing the .22 pistol while feeding my 4 yr old when I got her (5 years ago), then moved to the stock whip when I learned how to use it proper. Most all of our horses are pretty calm around shooting too (we shoot clays in an adjacent pasture) but I was curious about shooting while mounted. The ear plugs sounds like a great idea. Thanks for the insight!

Now back to holsters!
Yours looks a bit like an old style "slim jim" with a little extra leather on the back part of the holster. My understanding is that original Slim Jims covered more of the pistol than most we see today. Would you classify yours as a "Slim Jim" type? What thickness leather did you use to make it? Did you do anything fancy to the leather to "mold" it or some such?
Also, as mentioned earlier by others; my understanding is that cross draw was a favorite style for horseman. What say you? personally I really like it for the longer barreled guns (>6") but find that i prefer strong side for the "normal" or short barrels (<5.5").
I recently picked up a model '73 Uberti and am looking for a holster for it.

Vern Humphrey
May 28, 2013, 07:08 PM
When I made this holster for a 7 1/2" Blackhawk, I was struck by how much it looked like a Slim Jim.

I got my leather from Tandy www.tandyleatherfactory.com. For an OWB holster, get the heaviest and best quality available (which is none too good, these days.)

Molding a holster is easy. You need a tool -- a plastic handle toothbrush will do. Soak the holster in warm water until the leather is loose and floppy, then shove the gun in (wrapped with Saran wrap) and force the leather around the gun with the toothbrush handle.

One trick to making a secure holster is to make it just a smidgen too small, so that you can only force the gun all the way in when the holster is wet. The leather will stretch a bit and make a near-perfect fit.

WARNING -- it takes about 3 days for the leather to dry if left in a cool, dry place. I allow a week before putting the gun in the holster, and check it frequently for moisture for a week thereafter.

I've never made an exclusively cross draw holster -- I make holsters for snub-nosed revolvers, and usually cut an extra belt slot to allow them to be worn cross-draw.

Most of my concealment holsters are "tuckables" with Kydel "reverse-J" belt hooks. The J-hooks are attached to the belt with Chicago screws, and I make them of two different lengths, so you can switch them around and adjust the rake of the holster -- so these can be worn cross draw. And I usually cut belt slots, so they can be worn as pancakes, either strong side or cross-draw.

BSA1
May 28, 2013, 07:20 PM
Following this thread I am not sure how the Threeperson design is a horseman's holster. It was a early designed speed holster for law enforcement. It is a timeless design that works well for general carry and use.

As mentioned "Slim Jim" and "Mexican Loop" are designs that were commonly used in the Old West and early 20th century. It is also a fact that "cowboys" which is actually a offensive name did not wear handguns as much as many would like to believe.

Some ranches had rules about packing iron, a handgun gets in the way of a lot of chores such as roping and a carbine is a much better choice for killing game or wolves.

I have done a lot of mounted shooting and never lost a gun for it's holster. But that was on a closed course in a arena. If I was on a trail ride I would use a hammer thong as it would cause no harm while guarranteing against riding back to find my gun.
I
The O.P.'s design to me is more of a pouch than a holster. While it offers good protection to the gun it also, IMHO, uses too much leather.

The definitive guide to Old West holsters is the book "Packing Iron."

Vern Humphrey
May 28, 2013, 07:41 PM
Following this thread I am not sure how the Threeperson design is a horseman's holster. It was a early designed speed holster for law enforcement. It is a timeless design that works well for general carry and use.
No one said it was a horseman's holster -- it's based on the fast draw designs of the era.
The O.P.'s design to me is more of a pouch than a holster.
That's what a holster is -- in fact, the technical name for the part of the holster that holds the gun is "pouch."

Form follows function. Holsters generally have three functions:

1. To protect the gun.
2. To make the gun readily available when needed.
3. For some holsters, to provide for concealment.

CraigC
May 29, 2013, 02:48 AM
No one said it was a horseman's holster -- it's based on the fast draw designs of the era.
This is baseless and I challenge you to provide anything that supports this theory. The holster was designed by cowboy, cavalryman, blacksmith, federal probation agent, US Customs mounted inspector, El Paso County Sheriff's deputy and outdoorsman guide, Tom Threepersons in the 1920's. Not a Las Vegas showman in the 1950's. He was a real deal gunfighter who had sent quite a few to their graves. IMHO, to infer that the holster design bearing his name is an adaptation of the Hollywood fast draw style is an insult to the man and his exploits.

Technically speaking, the cant is in the opposite direction from a fast draw holster. It is also designed to ride high on a straight belt, opposite a fast draw holster that may hang almost to the knee. Most wear them at the 4 `o clock position, not a 2:00-2:30 fast draw position. Basically the only thing it has in common with a fast draw holster is the exposed triggerguard.

Not to mention that the design has been espoused by everybody from Elmer Keith, Skeeter Skelton, Bart Skelton, John Taffin and Brian Pearce. Not to mention countless modern day sportsmen and horsemen and some of the finest leathermakers and gunsmiths the world has ever known. So you'll have to excuse me if I defer to them and my own experience rather than, well, whatever.

http://barrantileather.com/Home_Page.php

BSA1
May 29, 2013, 10:28 AM
That's what a holster is -- in fact, the technical name for the part of the holster that holds the gun is "pouch."

Form follows function. Holsters generally have three functions:

1. To protect the gun.
2. To make the gun readily available when needed.
3. For some holsters, to provide for concealment

So my Crown Royal cloth bag meets the criteria of a holster…it protects the gun, makes the gun readily available and it provides most excellent concealment!

Rules for the XIT Ranch

No employee of the Company, or of any contractor doing work for the Company, is permitted to carry on or about his person or in his saddle bags, any pistol, dirk, dagger, sling shot, knuckles, bowie knife or any other similar instruments for offense or defense.

Card playing and gambling of every description, whether engaged in by employees, or by persons not in the service of the Company is strictly forbidden.

Employees are strictly forbidden the use of vinous, malt, spirituous, or intoxicating liquors, during their time of service with the Company.

Loafers, “sweaters”, deadbeats, tramps, gamblers, or disreputable persons, must not be entertained at any camp, nor will employees be permitted to give, loan or sell such persons any grain, or provisions of any kind, nor shall such persons be permitted to remain on the Company’s land under any pretext whatever.

Employees are not allowed to run mustang, antelope or any kind of game on the Company’s horses.

No employee shall be permitted to own any cattle or stock horses on the ranch.

It is the aim of the owners of this ranch to conduct it on the principle of right and justice to everyone; and for it to be excelled by no other in the good behavior, sterling honesty and integrity, and general high character of its employees, and to this end it is necessary that the forgoing rules be adhered to, and the violation of any of them will be the just charge for discharge.

rayban
May 29, 2013, 12:59 PM
I see several vices of mine on that list....I would have made a quick XIT from the XIT ranch.:evil:

Old Fuff
May 29, 2013, 01:25 PM
I see several vices of mine on that list....I would have made a quick XIT from the XIT ranch.

I believe that these rules date from the late 1890's to early 1900's when that part of Texas was pretty safe.

I've also wondered just how strictly they were enforced... :uhoh:

Malamute
May 29, 2013, 02:13 PM
I've used a variety of holsters in a variety of conditions. I have had a hammer cocked in thick brush, the strap went over the trigger guard, which I think is a poor idea. I've not lost a pistol when riding motorcycles (including a couple minor wrecks), riding horses (thrown once quite decisively, as well as mountains and brushy draws) or walking, but have generally had a retention strap of some sort or a half or full flap. I like a snap strap across the hammer behind the spur, when well done, it doesn't slow the draw down (6 1/2" 29, with the empty can on the back of the hand at shoulder level, draw and shoot before can hits ground, with strap snapped), and makes the gun very secure. I also agree a holster should hold the gun without a strap, even when upside down. Few do that after a fair amount of carry wear and use, but I think its a good idea. They can be tightened up after they get loose though. I still want a retention strap.

I have nothing against the Threepersons types for general use, I think it's one of the best general purpose rigs, and extremely fast when needed, if that means anything. Yes, it came along a bit later in the game, but I dont think that disqualifies it in any way compared to earleir types. Holsters have been evolving over time, and I think it's a big step forward overall, even for horse use. We each have our preferences, many with good experience behind them, and we still dont come to the same conclusions, but I really like having the speed option, as well as the security of the strap. Covered triggers seem the vogue today, but I've not had a problem with the classic Threepersons type for whatever reason the covered trigger is popular today, I dont carry striker fired autos, or even 1911's any more.


XIT was somewhat of a leader in early gun control policies. I've often wondered if it had any bearing on the state restrictions on open carry. I've not heard of any large ranches in the Rockies or AZ that had similar policies, and both areas have always had open carry, and loaded long guns in vehicles etc OK.

CraigC
May 29, 2013, 03:45 PM
I've been sitting here with a well-used, second-hand El Paso Saddlery Threepersons holster that I've had more than 10yrs and a USFA 4¾" 12/22 that weighs 44oz, which is 8oz heavier than a 4¾" .45Colt and I can't make it fall out while turned upside down.

What was that I said about proper fitment???

BSA1
May 29, 2013, 04:51 PM
Written accounts of cattle drives from Texas to Kansas document that many times guns were kept stored in a wagon until needed...such as Indian trouble.

The harsh reality was beeves were worth more than a man's life. Every dead beeve was cash out of the owners pocket so he didn't want unnecessary risks like a stampede from a gunshot.

Vern Humphrey
May 29, 2013, 05:12 PM
So my Crown Royal cloth bag meets the criteria of a holster…it protects the gun, makes the gun readily available and it provides most excellent concealment!
If it does those things to your satsifaction, sure.

Of course, others may have higher standards in the areas of protection, accessability and concealment.

CraigC
May 29, 2013, 05:27 PM
Not much higher, far as I can tell.

CraigC
May 30, 2013, 12:54 PM
I almost forgot about the Mernickle PS6. It covers less than the Threepersons, has no retention and good luck ever dropping your sixgun out of one. The key is proper fit.

http://www.mernickleholsters.com/ps/ps6sar15.html

Eaglestroker
May 30, 2013, 05:22 PM
I make and carry a lot of hollywood style holsters evidently. Who knew? I guess my expectations are to high really. Personally my favorite for plain ol knocking around in any manner is still a pancake. The rest I'll stay out of you folks can bicker all you want :)

For a good read check out the book 'Packing Iron' it's a good representation of the evolution of leather for guns. And believe it or not my old walker mare is a strawberry roan too. She's a dang good horse.

**Disclaimer: I'm not a bad @s$, don't pretend to be or play one on tv, and didn't stay at a Holiday Inn last night.

kbbailey
May 30, 2013, 05:43 PM
I lost my beloved 4 5/8" .357 blackhawk in about 8" of fresh snow once upon a time. I found it after backtracking myself. ...After that ordeal, I prefer to have SOME sort of retention. Even if it is just a leather thong.

The Bushmaster
May 31, 2013, 10:59 AM
CraigC...You need to quit putting gin in yer coffee. Try a little rum or whiskey instead. It may improve yer personality a bit. Maybe.

CraigC
May 31, 2013, 12:24 PM
Funny, I was thinking the same thing.

grter
May 31, 2013, 12:33 PM
Hmmm I have given this a little thought and I like flap holsters that protect the whole gun.

These other hollywood cowboy holsters may be good for those who hold their head up high all the time and like to quick draw blast any and every thing that pops up within a 7 yard radius around them.

For those real cowboys or city slicker cowboys at heart like me there are times when we may have to go down to the dirt, crawl, and get dirty.

If we have to we do not consider ourselves to good for the dirt. Us practicioners just do what has to done without thought to that kind of nonsense.

While we are not so fragile and dainty unfortunalty most guns (with the exception of the great AK platform, the underdog of all battle rifles, god bless Kalashnikov) even the most reliable pistols are not and getting dirt, dust, debris, or whatever inside is not going to keep your sidearm ready for when you need it.

That is where the flap holster is really a practical choice for the practicing cowboy. :):):):):) I admit I am more of a wanabee but I can see the logic of a time tested and battle proven cross draw flap holster for practical use.

Now don't get me wrong those other holsters are great or even better for everyday standard metro use so long as you creep with caution when going through backyard shrubbery and keep out of the dirt.

If you feel you really may have to use your sidearm on the fly I would suggest holding it your hand.

Old Fuff
May 31, 2013, 01:15 PM
Well you have a point. From the very beginning horseback troopers used full or half-flap holsters, as did many others. Open-top ones generally covered just about everything but the handle. Prior to the 1930's and even after, low cut pouch designs that exposed everything from the rear of the cylinder and front of the trigger guard, backwards were seldom seen and were usually intended to be covered by a garment.

I would observe that rawhide string loops apparently were not common, and became even less so when snap-fastened safety straps were introduced.

Horses have a knack for rubbing up against things or sometimes slipping and falling down. When picking a holster this should be taken into consideration.

Malamute
May 31, 2013, 03:47 PM
originally posted by grter

Hmmm I have given this a little thought and I like flap holsters that protect the whole gun.

These other hollywood cowboy holsters may be good for those who hold their head up high all the time and like to quick draw blast any and every thing that pops up within a 7 yard radius around them.

For those real cowboys or city slicker cowboys at heart like me there are times when we may have to go down to the dirt, crawl, and get dirty.

If we have to we do not consider ourselves to good for the dirt. Us practicioners just do what has to done without thought to that kind of nonsense.

While we are not so fragile and dainty unfortunalty most guns (with the exception of the great AK platform, the underdog of all battle rifles, god bless Kalashnikov) even the most reliable pistols are not and getting dirt, dust, debris, or whatever inside is not going to keep your sidearm ready for when you need it.

That is where the flap holster is really a practical choice for the practicing cowboy. I admit I am more of a wanabee but I can see the logic of a time tested and battle proven cross draw flap holster for practical use.

Now don't get me wrong those other holsters are great or even better for everyday standard metro use so long as you creep with caution when going through backyard shrubbery and keep out of the dirt.

If you feel you really may have to use your sidearm on the fly I would suggest holding it your hand.


So, it's either/or? A full flap or anything else is hollywood cowboy nonsense? Pretty strong opinions.

My poor dainty Smith seemed to work fine the 6 or so years I spent mostly living outside in all weather, sleeping on the ground as often as not, and carried daily over many years. It got cleaned once or twice a year over a couple years, I'm sure it was cleaned more aften after getting out of the backyard shrubbery though. I'm not a cowboy, nor have I played one on TV, but besides being semi-nomadic those years, I spent some time in the northern rockies wrangling dudes and hunters off horses a bit. The poor dainty Smith somehow still worked fine with minimal care and my hollywood Threepersons rigs. I didn't realize how lucky I was. :D

One never truly knows when their arm will be required, if so, I'd have a rifle in hand, not a sixgun when that moment arrived. We all make choices in our arms and gear. One mans choice may seem like a handicap to another, we all make that decision. I choose not to handicap myself for quickness of use or security. If someone else makes another choice, more power to them, I can respect that, especially if it's backed by experience and their individual situation. I feel some make choices based on theory more than actual use though. My poor old Smith, and the Threepersons type holster I had made to order.

http://i23.photobucket.com/albums/b387/Malamute/outdoor%20sports/IMG_1299.jpg

Certaindeaf
May 31, 2013, 05:54 PM
That thing has probably killed a few things.

grter
June 1, 2013, 01:54 PM
OK I will admit I didn't know the tiny bit of history that I now know concerning Tom Threepersons.

The little that I read about him I liked in paticualar him refusing to allow hollywood to make a movie about his life story because he did not like the script or the type of people who wanted to make money off of his story.

From what I gather his holster is a specialty design customized for his line of dangerous work which was tracking down heavily armed and dangerous evil people.

His type of work I would guess is far from what the average poineer did and the need for getting a fast drop on an armed gunman anytime and anywhere made it necessary for him develope a holster that prioritized fast access over the other advantages that a flap or other more gun protective holster would provide.

It seems Tom Three Persons was very practical minded in that regard and made the choice according to his greatest need.

Most designs have advantages and disadvantages and one can only hope to make the best choices according to their needs.

Malamute
June 1, 2013, 02:23 PM
Originally posted by grter

....Most designs have advantages and disadvantages and one can only hope to make the best choices according to their needs.


Well said.

CraigC
June 1, 2013, 02:28 PM
....Most designs have advantages and disadvantages and one can only hope to make the best choices according to their needs.
Exactly!

BSA1
June 1, 2013, 10:10 PM
For maximum protection and security a of a handgun when horseback riding the full-flap holster is tops but the half-flap is more practical. I had this holster made for a Remington 1858 C&B with 8" barrel. It is a copy of half-flap holster pictured in the book "Packing Iron." The half-flap on this period correct design protects the caps and cylinder from the weather such as rain and avoids excess leather such as pictured in Post #1.

http://i1251.photobucket.com/albums/hh560/Seldomseen3/1858%20Remington%20holster%20and%20ammo%20pouch/Remington1858001_zpsb65a1c44.jpg (http://s1251.photobucket.com/user/Seldomseen3/media/1858%20Remington%20holster%20and%20ammo%20pouch/Remington1858001_zpsb65a1c44.jpg.html)

Vern Humphrey
June 1, 2013, 11:55 PM
It is no accident that the M1912 and M1916 holsters for the M1911 were half flap holsters.

rcmodel
June 2, 2013, 12:33 AM
I'm not sure I would call either one a half-flap holster.

They fit the full flap description in my holster book.

Only the tip end of the 1911 butt peeks out anyway.

rc

CraigC
June 2, 2013, 11:56 AM
I agree that the 1912 and 1916 are much closer to a full flap than a half. BSA1's beautiful rig above is a classic example of a half flap.


It is no accident that the M1912 and M1916 holsters for the M1911 were half flap holsters.
Was it an accident that they hang way down on the hip like a Hollywood rig??? Because apparently if a holster has a single design feature that's similar to a buscadero rig, then it was obviously influenced by them.

Old Fuff
June 2, 2013, 12:35 PM
Was it an accident that they hang way down on the hip like a Hollywood rig??? Because apparently if a holster has a single design feature that's similar to a buscadero rig, then it was obviously influenced by them.

Highly doubtful. The popularity of buscadero rigs (to whatever degree they were popular) was Hollywood based and largely because of 1930's and later movies. In 1912 and 1916 as well as earlier, the few westerns that were made didn't feature them.

CraigC
June 2, 2013, 01:34 PM
I know, I was being facetious and trying to make a point with Vern.

Vern Humphrey
June 2, 2013, 03:30 PM
I'm not sure I would call either one a half-flap holster.

They fit the full flap description in my holster book.

Only the tip end of the 1911 butt peeks out anyway.
True -- but compared to contemporary European holsters, they are half-flap.

The M1917 Holster is a true half-flap.

CraigC
June 2, 2013, 04:46 PM
European holsters are more like fitted pistol cases that just happen to have a belt loop. Obviously a product of societies that have disarmed their citizens.

Malamute
June 4, 2013, 01:52 AM
I've used a couple different half flaps, they worked well, but overall, I didnt have any trouble with an open holster. If they get rained and snowed on, they still work, at least mine have.

Lawrence did a half flap that had a snap/strap coming from below, a downward motion of the hand or the thumb would pop the strap, allowing a little quicker access to the gun. Seems like a good idea, I have a couple, but never seem to use them.

Old Fuff
June 4, 2013, 10:59 AM
Lawrence, located in Portland OR., was in a market area where high levels of rain and snow were often the order of the day. Consequently they used leather that was oil finished, and had models that offered more protection to the handgun. Gun leather makers in Texas for example didn't have to take these environmental conditions into as much consideration.

The Bushmaster
June 4, 2013, 11:32 AM
Old Fuff..In 1966 I purchased a Lawrence gun belt and holster for my Colt. I have never oiled it or did any other preservation of the rig except to keep it clean. It still has the original oil finish and if you rub the leather with your finger it comes back with a smudge of oil on it. Some of the highest quality leather work came from that company.

Old Fuff
June 4, 2013, 12:02 PM
Your experience is not unusual. They opened their doors (I believe) in 1854, and remained in business for well over a century. That kind of track record reflects the quality of the products they turned out. They remain in demand even today.

CraigC
June 4, 2013, 12:02 PM
I have a floral carved jockstrap holster by Lawrence that is probably 50rs old and it still looks like new.

Malamute
June 4, 2013, 12:06 PM
I have a number of Lawrence holsters and cartridge belts, they are of good quality. A gun shop in Fairbanks was going out of business in about '89 or '90 (Frontier I believe). I bought a fair pile of Lawrence leather for very good prices. I'm still using the 44 belt near daily. It's the belt in the pic with my 29. I need to restitch the cartridge loops, it will be the first time for this belt. The leather quality is quite good, the loops have not stretched out to a larger caliber, as I've had happen with other makes. I also have a couple of their #120, the basic Threepersons type that Keith said he had some input into.

One of the Lawrence 120's with a Ruger 45. It has a few miles on it. You can see the deerskin string run under the trigger guard to tighten up the fit to the gun after several years of wear loosened it up a bit. It pinches the holster back tight around the frame.

http://i23.photobucket.com/albums/b387/Malamute/outdoor%20sports/IMG_1158.jpg

CraigC
June 4, 2013, 01:57 PM
My local shop bought all the stock from another going out of business back sometime in the mid `90's. Including a bunch of grips and leather. I bought a dozen or so Bianchi and Freedom Arms holsters for $20 each and several pairs of fancy walnut Herrett's grips for cheap. Sold about half the stuff online for a nice profit. Also bought several hundred rounds of the Remington .38Spl "FBI load" really cheap but it all went up in smoke. ;)

brbdwyr
June 5, 2013, 02:34 PM
GP100 in a Bianchi crossdraw.

http://i29.photobucket.com/albums/c270/Hanksrainysky/GP100/DSCF5348800x600.jpg

It's not going anywhere, it's not gonna get snagged up with the butt all tucked up against my left hip, and it would take one heck of a crazy wreck for me to fall on it. Besides, my ride is rock-solid.

http://i29.photobucket.com/albums/c270/Hanksrainysky/DSCF5155.jpg

GoWolfpack
June 5, 2013, 06:00 PM
http://i23.photobucket.com/albums/b387/Malamute/outdoor%20sports/IMG_1299.jpg


Malamute, I love to see a gun with some honest wear on it, and that one's just about covered up with it. That belongs right up there with the BBQ guns Cocked & Locked was showing earlier.

grter
August 14, 2013, 11:47 AM
This is a real horseman holster that protects the firearm from accidental discharges from brush and twigs as well as keeping most of the dirt, debries, and things that can cause failure to fire out.

It's also a cross draw a good type for horseback riding.


I am having trouble linking my other images from the Holster: Flap or no Flap? thread

Dr.Rob
August 14, 2013, 07:43 PM
I agree a 'horse' holster should have a DEEP boot and a tight fit that even when open doesn't allow the gun to bounce out of the holster. Cross draw isn't a must, but since few of us are using a sabre anymore, it's my preferred style of carry.

The US military I think got the design right, though these two examples have been modernized for crossdraw:

an 1863 pattern by Trailrider Products made for a Vaquero (though it fits my 1860 Army very well and my 1851 Navy loosely.) It does a great job of completely covering the shiny grip frame and protecting the revolver from the elements.

and a 1917 by IMA reproductions. GREAT fit.

Another great design that's sort of a mix of these two is the 1885 pattern that fits a Schoefield or Colt: http://www.carricoleather.com/beltsandholsters.html

Trailrider does a great half-flap holster too: http://www.gunfighter.com/trailrider/tr_holster3.html
NONE of these is a 'quick draw' as such rigs favor retention WAY over speed of presentation.

Vern Humphrey
August 14, 2013, 08:59 PM
This is a real horseman holster that protects the firearm from accidental discharges from brush and twigs as well as keeping most of the dirt, debries, and things that can cause failure to fire out.

It's also a cross draw a good type for horseback riding.
Can't see from the photo, but that looks a lot like a cavalry holster. They were indeed of that type, but worn butt-forward on the right side, allowing a draw with either hand.

The cavalry also had another smart accessory -- a cartridge box (actually, for much of the era a Civil War cap box.) This protected their ammunition better than belt loops, and was more accessible as well.

CraigC
August 15, 2013, 02:08 AM
I've just about sworn off cartridge loops altogether. I'm gonna come up with a cartridge box based on post Civil War era originals in perhaps 10rd and 20rd versions.

Sergei Mosin
August 15, 2013, 02:21 AM
A modern cartridge box would be neat. Maybe design it so that the rounds in it can be on speedstrips if desired?

CraigC
August 15, 2013, 03:10 AM
That's a good idea!

Vern Humphrey
August 15, 2013, 01:03 PM
A modern cartridge box would be neat. Maybe design it so that the rounds in it can be on speedstrips if desired?
I like that!

For single actions, I make a case of soft leather and put in a cut down Styrofoam filler from an empty cartridge box of the appropriate caliber.

Pilot
August 15, 2013, 01:06 PM
I actually prefer full flap holsters when hiking or riding in the woods. It protects the pistol from falling out of the holster, and also from the elements.

RPRNY
August 15, 2013, 01:24 PM
http://www.thehighroad.org/showthread.php?p=9048611#post9048611

http://i203.photobucket.com/albums/aa272/LRDG/Tech%20photos/258e5e9d-5b34-42aa-975b-ef4cedddc1d4_zps774085d7.jpg (http://s203.photobucket.com/user/LRDG/media/Tech%20photos/258e5e9d-5b34-42aa-975b-ef4cedddc1d4_zps774085d7.jpg.html)

Flapped cross draw. Oklahoma Leather. Wants oil working into it but excellent value for money.

hipoint
August 15, 2013, 08:51 PM
I had a friend of mine make a full line of full flap holsters for my handguns. I've gotten away from carrying rifles on my day to day farm chores, they're just too much trouble. Problem was, my handguns were all really nice (haha, not the hipoints).

Problem solved, one will completely swallow the gun for serious working, nothing exposed. It is not a quick draw holster, but isn't a chore either. The others all leave the handle exposed from the holster part, but the flap fully covers them. GREAT for handgun hunting, or farm work. No worries about rain, sawdust, mud, dings/nicks. The other plus is I now have a gun at hand during almost all my farm work and can pop those varmints when they show themselves.

I do have one stainless .357 that isn't in perfect condition, so I don't really mind to carry it in an easy access holster.

The other real plus, is when I do buckle the flap down on them, it makes for a nice pistol case so they never have to leave their holsters.

I went for "full protection" of the guns with these rather than the ability to make a quick draw. I don't think I'll run into Badlands Bart out on the farm, so just having a firearm within reach at all times is good enough for me.

Malamute
August 16, 2013, 01:13 AM
Originally posted by CraigC

I've just about sworn off cartridge loops altogether. I'm gonna come up with a cartridge box based on post Civil War era originals in perhaps 10rd and 20rd versions.


Why is that? I like cartridge loops quite a lot. Pulling two at a time and loading an SA or even a DA revolver is pretty quick and easy when used to them. When I carry a rifle belt, I keep the loads at the front where they're easy to reach, and I can see and pull small game loads easily.

I have a Civil War type cap/cartridge box, I like the looks of it, but it didn't seem very handy. I may have the guy make me a version with a block in it like was mentioned, to hold about 8 348's upright, the current one doesnt have enough flap to secure with rifle rims upright at the top of the pouch. Fishing around for them down in the pouch is a pain in the behind. I'd rather carry spare rounds in my pockets, or better yet, a cartridge belt.

I have a couple box type cartridge carriers, Hunter and others used to make them. A full 20 rd box of rifle loads can be carried. Its handy enough with a good box insert, but if the flap isnt secured, it seems like you could lose a lot of rounds hustling through the woods over rough country.

CraigC
August 16, 2013, 12:44 PM
Because unless you use nickel plated brass, you can't leave cartridges in them without verdigris forming.

You can't see them.

Loading from them is rather slow.

You have to have a separate cartridge belt for several different sized cartridges. I don't even like using .45's in .44 loops because it stretches them out. If you have a lot of guns in a lot of different cartridges, that adds up pretty fast if you're buying them.

Mine don't fit any more. ;)

I wasn't referring to a cap box, which is what I use for percussion caps or loose .22LR's. But rather a rectangular cartridge box with either two rows of five or ten. A cartridge box with a wood insert can hold cartridges indefinitely. It is in one place on your belt for more consistent and quicker reloads. You can actually see what's inside. You can also use one box for multiple cartridges without worrying about stretching out your loops. You only need one belt. I will probably sell them for less than half what a cartridge belt will cost as it will be FAR easier to make. At most, you would only need two or three for all pistol cartridges. Perhaps one for up to .357Mag, one for up to .45Colt and if you have .475 or .500, one in that size too. I'll use wool or felt inserts to keep them from rattling in the wood block.

Similar to this:
http://www.neaca.com/images/US_Military_Leather_Cartridge_Box_2_.JPG

Malamute
August 16, 2013, 03:48 PM
I leave mine loaded all the time. Yes, they get verdigris, but I clean them every few months or so with a rag ior paper towel and it isnt much of a problem. I use a smaller caliber plastic bore brush to gently clean the inside of the loops out, it helps keep them clean longer.

If its something I don't use much over the winter, I start the season by cleaning the rounds in a belt the first time I take it out. The type of tanning used for the leather seems to have some bearing on how much or how fast verdegris forms. I have some that dont crud up nearly as much as others. Every decade or so it seems like the loops need to be restitched to tighten them up. I like them to positively hold the rounds, but not hinder getting them out two at a time for revolver loading.

Slow is relative I guess. I find belts pretty quick for some uses, especially if the loops are in the front or handy to the right hand.

I dont mind having belts for each caliber or type. I attach the holster to the belt usually, so it's all together and the holster doesn't shift around. Can simply unfasten the buckle and only hold one end to take it off without the holster falling off, and hang it from a hook by the buckle. I dislike having to try to hold the holster in place to put a belt on or off, or worry about the holster falling off the belt when handling it.

I agree, different calibers dont work well in the same belt. I've found most loops loosen up fairly quickly. Working the next size rounds in seems to make them tighter and the loads dont fall out after a few weeks or months of use.

The box you showed is similar to the commercial ones I have for rifle loads. I put plastic cartridge box lowers in them to hold the rounds. They're the type I mentioned that I worry about losing rounds from if the flap wasn't secured and moving through rough stuff quickly.

Vern Humphrey
August 16, 2013, 07:52 PM
I carried my Colt M357 in a full-flap holster of my own design my first tour in Viet Nam, and carried 50 rounds of .357 in a GI first aid pouch (old style). It was a good combination -- even in the jungle, the gun was protected, and reloading was simple.

royal barnes
August 16, 2013, 10:26 PM
If you want a cartridge belt that will not cause verdigris order one from Rick Bachman at Old West Reproductions. He guarantees no green cartridges. I don't know how he treats his leather but there is no green.:)

joeoim
September 24, 2013, 12:25 AM
What works for one person, may not work as well for the other. We all have different styles and circumstances.

I started out carrying a Ruger Bearcat in a Threeperson style with a leather hammer thong.

Next was a Ruger Single Six in a Hunter brand holster with a strap over the trigger guard with a snap.
Then there were .357's, .41 mags, and a .45LC in various leather holsters with both hammer straps and trigger guard straps.

I have twice experienced frozen firing pins on below zero mornings (after wet miserable days) that took 2 (or 3?) hammer strikes to fire. (Hence calvary style)

Twice that I can think of I've lost my .357 for not sticking it back deep in chap pocket. A couple hours searching and tracking were successful finding it both times.
I lost a stainless steel 5 shot 38 special from a coat pocket. 2 days searching were fruitless.

I've made calvary style holsters with full flap that snapped down. Pistol sits so deep I don't have to keep it snapped, it stays put and dry.

My opinion
The hammer thong 2 inches or so longer than hammer served me better than hammer or trigger guard strap with snap. Not only does thong keep your pistol in holster, it keeps anything from pulling on your hammer in a wreck. I like a holster open on the bottom and longer than barrel (lets any trash fall through).

Now I carry in the calvary style holster with flap covering all the pistol (or deep in chap pocket with flap snapped). The holster is 1 1/2" longer than the barrel and open on bottom to let any debris fall straight through. The longer length protects the barrel from getting stuck in the ground if I get bucked off or fall down.

If I ever have to go through Hell and High Water, a secure functioning pistol (with clear bore) is more important to me than the second, (or half second) it takes to get it out.

Joe

Vern Humphrey
September 24, 2013, 08:46 PM
I've made calvary style holsters with full flap that snapped down. Pistol sits so deep I don't have to keep it snapped, it stays put and dry.

That's my thinking, too. A deep holster, well moulded, will hold a pistol securely. I did use a flap holster my first tour in Viet Nam, when I carried a personally-owned Colt M357 and found it took care of the gun under some of the nastiest conditions you can imagine.

If I ever have to go through Hell and High Water, a secure functioning pistol (with clear bore) is more important to me than the second, (or half second) it takes to get it out.
Once again, you and I are in agreement.

joeoim
September 25, 2013, 01:30 AM
That's my thinking, too. A deep holster, well moulded, will hold a pistol securely. I did use a flap holster my first tour in Viet Nam, when I carried a personally-owned Colt M357 and found it took care of the gun under some of the nastiest conditions you can imagine.

What become of your Colt M357?

Vern Humphrey
September 25, 2013, 12:16 PM
I still have it.

The M357 is the same gun as the Python, but without the barrel lug and the extra polishing and deep bluing. It's a treasure.

joeoim
September 25, 2013, 10:17 PM
That's great.
Could you post a picture?
I'd like to know where you got it (new?) and how you got it over and back, if you don't mind telling us.
Thanks
Joe

ps
a picture of your holster too.

Vern Humphrey
September 26, 2013, 02:41 PM
You can see a picture at http://www.thehighroad.org/showthread.php?t=213040

The system will not let me repost it here.

In Viet Nam in '66, they threatened us with a firing squad for bringing our own guns, then filled out some paperwork that made it all legal, including bringing them back home.

shafter
September 27, 2013, 05:32 PM
n another thread, I was asked to post a picture of my holster for single action revolvers. This is one I have used for quite a while -- a plain, working holster.

As you can see, this holster is different from the standard Three Persons Holster. For one thing, I spend a lot of time on horseback (the bowie knife is for hacking through brambles and branches in the Ozarks.) A gun that exposes the trigger guard and leaves half the gun hanging out like a starlett's boobs on opening night is going to result in a lost or damaged gun. If you need a thong to hold your gun in the holster, by the time you get back from bashing through the woods, your holster will be empty.

With this design the holster "swallows" the gun and keeps it safe. And the holster is formed to the gun for greater security.
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Did you make this? If not where did you get it? I'd love to have one like it for my Blackhawk.

Vern Humphrey
September 27, 2013, 06:25 PM
I made it. I make all my holsters.

I find most holster designs are not as useful as they might be, so I design and make my own. It's not all that difficult -- anyone can do it.

joeoim
September 28, 2013, 02:45 PM
Thanks Vern
I enjoyed the pics.
Not the best picture of your Colts.
Pants & coats must have been made with Man Sized Pockets in 1849.
Special bonus looking at all the neat pictures everyone else shared in that thread.
You have packed the dickens out of that little detective special.

Malamute said #55

My poor dainty Smith seemed to work fine the 6 or so years I spent mostly living outside in all weather, sleeping on the ground as often as not, and carried daily over many years. It got cleaned once or twice a year over a couple years, I'm sure it was cleaned more aften after getting out of the backyard shrubbery though. I'm not a cowboy, nor have I played one on TV, but besides being semi-nomadic those years, I spent some time in the northern rockies wrangling dudes and hunters off horses a bit. The poor dainty Smith somehow still worked fine with minimal care and my hollywood Threepersons rigs. I didn't realize how lucky I was.
One never truly knows when their arm will be required, if so, I'd have a rifle in hand, not a sixgun when that moment arrived. We all make choices in our arms and gear. One mans choice may seem like a handicap to another, we all make that decision. I choose not to handicap myself for quickness of use or security. If someone else makes another choice, more power to them, I can respect that, especially if it's backed by experience and their individual situation. I feel some make choices based on theory more than actual use though. My poor old Smith, and the Threepersons type holster I had made to order.
Malamute,
It looks like your little Threepersons works. You rarely see such a ("dainty") well traveled .44 that clean.
A picture is worth a thousand words. I tried to put it here with your post but don't know how.
A man would be a fool to argue with anyone that has packed anything that big that long.

Thanks for putting it up.
Joe

Vern Humphrey
September 28, 2013, 05:04 PM
hanks Vern
I enjoyed the pics.
Not the best picture of your Colts.
Pants & coats must have been made with Man Sized Pockets in 1849.
Special bonus looking at all the neat pictures everyone else shared in that thread.
You have packed the dickens out of that little detective special.

In the 19th Century, there was no air conditioning or central heating. People wore heavy coats in cold weather, with big pockets and often carried their coats rolled up behind the cantle of the saddle in hot weather. At the OK Corral, Wyatt Earp said he took his Colt Single Action out of the holster and put it in his pocket -- and that's a lot bigger gun than an 1849 pocket revolver.

RPRNY
September 28, 2013, 06:52 PM
I have really enjoyed this thread and some great pictures, but there's something very odd indeed going on. In my experience, horsemen are bigger liars (although we would prefer "tellers of tall tales") than even fishermen. Yet, throughout this thread there are significant admissions that at times horse and rider are not "one", hell, sometimes not even two.:eek:

These must be pitiful horsemen indeed. Why it's almost impossible for even the most uncouth dudes to be thrown. The times that I broke my back, both collar bones, ribs and wrist in inexplicable departures from my seat were all freak aberrations, in no way the result of differences of opinion between horse and rider, almost always caused by the poor situation of a fence by some anti-equine sadist, an unbeknownst secret rainfall only on the downhill side of a stone wall or due to the reckless and malicious inattention of a tree...and most certainly not anything to do with poor judgment or communication on my part. :rolleyes: :D

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Vern Humphrey
September 28, 2013, 08:09 PM
Real horsemen know the old saying, "Never a hoss that couldn't be rode, never a man that couldn't be throwed."

farm23
September 29, 2013, 09:04 AM
Amen RPRY I have left the saddle involuntarily a bunch, of course it was never my fault. If I were to fire when in the saddle I probably would end on the ground. Years ago I did quail hunt in GA from horse back but those horses were trained much better than mine. I carry in a cross draw or in a saddle bag and fortunately have never left the horse when I was carrying.

Vern Humphrey
September 29, 2013, 06:03 PM
What I do is take a .22 pistol when I feed the horses and shoot it while they're eating. Once they get used to that, I will stand beside the horse, and run my shooting arm over his back and fire. Finally, I get in the saddle and shoot a bit.

They soon understand, "Oh, that's just a noise he makes."

Mind you, I don't do any serious shooting from the saddle -- when I was on the ranch, when I jumped deer, I'd be out of the saddle with my .30-30 in my hand and shoot from under the horse's neck.

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