A question for Kimber 84M owners.


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1858
May 22, 2013, 07:02 PM
I've heaped a lot of praise on Kimber rifles over the past few months based on the experience of buying an 8400 Montana and an 8400 Talkeetna. I've been so pleased and impressed with those rifles that I decided to add an 84M Montana chambered in .308 Win. I ordered one from Kimber a few weeks ago and it arrived at my FFL on Monday. Once I got it home I decided to go through it thoroughly and one of the first things I noticed was a "hole" at the 6 o'clock position where the bolt locks up to the barrel. After removing the stock I realized that Kimber machines a flat on the underside of the barrel to provide clearance for the front action screw. The 8400s have a different bolt nose geometry so they don't have a similar hole. I asked jmr40 to take a look at his 84M to see if it was different than mine and he reported no such hole. I sent photos to Kimber and spoke with Sergio in customer service yesterday morning and again today. He told me that he had one of the techs look at some other 84Ms in the plant and supposedly this is normal. I'm sure the hole is just an aesthetic issue although it could trap debris, but regardless, it's really annoying to me. It's just not an elegant solution to a problem. I admit that I'm picky but I like things a certain way and this just isn't right. I haven't shot the rifle yet and it might be a tack driver but there's more to a rifle than just accuracy. So anyone with an 84M, please take a peek inside the action and let me know if you have a similar feature. I'd be interested in knowing what cartridge the rifle is chambered for as well.

Other than the hole, the rifle appears to be really well made and it's ridiculously light ... and small ... for want of a better word. I thought my 8400 Montana was light until I picked up this thing. :what:

http://thr.mcmxi.org/rifles/kimber/montana/84m/photos/84m_montana_308win_03.jpg

http://thr.mcmxi.org/rifles/kimber/montana/84m/photos/84m_montana_308win_04.jpg

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jmr40
May 22, 2013, 07:31 PM
Send Kimber a photo of my rifle for comparison. It was harder to get a quality photo with the scope on it, but it is easy to see the difference.

http://i1129.photobucket.com/albums/m513/jmr40/kimber005_zpsf623e5b7.jpg (http://s1129.photobucket.com/user/jmr40/media/kimber005_zpsf623e5b7.jpg.html)

I really do like this rifle. Mine is also in 308 and weighs 5 lbs 15 oz including a 2.5-8X36 Leupold in Talley lightweight mounts. It is a shooter. Todays 1/2" group with 155 gr Berger hunting bullets @ 2880 fps.

http://i1129.photobucket.com/albums/m513/jmr40/levers009_zps7833e144.jpg (http://s1129.photobucket.com/user/jmr40/media/levers009_zps7833e144.jpg.html)

My best group ever, with any rifle.

http://i1129.photobucket.com/albums/m513/jmr40/targets001.jpg (http://s1129.photobucket.com/user/jmr40/media/targets001.jpg.html)

1858
May 22, 2013, 08:13 PM
Send Kimber a photo of my rifle for comparison. It was harder to get a quality photo with the scope on it, but it is easy to see the difference.


jmr40, thanks for taking a picture of your rifle but you're showing the feed ramp directly in front of the magazine follower. My photo shows the barrel where it threads into the receiver and the cone directly in front of the chamber. You can see the action threads where the hole is. I have many rifles and have never seen this before but maybe it's a storm in a teacup.

jmr40
May 23, 2013, 11:56 AM
Upon closer inspection, my rifle does indeed have the same. I did not interperet your photos correctly. I had never noticed, and it does not seem to effect function. Sorry for the confusion.

What calibers are your other Kimbers, and do they have the same?

1858
May 23, 2013, 01:49 PM
What calibers are your other Kimbers, and do they have the same?

jmr40, thanks again for taking the time to inspect your 84M. It would appear that it's normal but I kind of wish that Kimber had put a little more effort into that part of the rifle. My other Kimbers are chambered in .300 WSM and .375 H&H. I'll post a couple of photos of those later today showing the chamber and receiver threads.

Walkalong
May 23, 2013, 05:19 PM
I wouldn't like it either, even if it doesn't affect anything in a negative way.

rbernie
May 23, 2013, 05:22 PM
I would refuse to accept the notion that it won't catch certain bullet meplats and cause feed issues.

1858
May 23, 2013, 07:36 PM
Looking at the 8400 photos below, the front action screws are visible but the 8400 action has a larger bolt and "nose" that extends into the barrel so there's no Winchester style cone leading into the chamber. It looks as if Kimber didn't machine a flat on the underside of either of the 8400 barrels but for some reason figured they needed one on the 84M. It doesn't make much sense to me. If nothing else, maybe this thread will help someone else make a decision if this sort of thing is important to them.


Kimber 8400 Montana chambered in .300 WSM.

http://thr.mcmxi.org/rifles/kimber/montana/8400/photos/8400_montana_300wsm_01.jpg


Kimber 8400 Talkeetna chambered in .375 H&H Mag.

http://thr.mcmxi.org/rifles/kimber/talkeetna/photos/8400_talkeetna_375h&h_01.jpg

wyohome
May 23, 2013, 09:30 PM
Mine has the same hole (84M Longmaster Classic .308). It can only catch the tip of a bullet if the base is nearly in contact with the scope. The configuration of the magazine points the round much higher. It could be a problem if you were to attempt to load a single round blindfolded with heavy gloves...or in the dark.

1858
May 27, 2013, 03:13 PM
I finally got over the barrel oddity and decided to shoot the 84M yesterday after mounting a 1.5-5x scope. The good news is that it seems to be quite accurate even with factory ammunition. I managed the group shown below with Remington 150gr CLUB while zeroing the scope. I was really surprised by how moderate the recoil is for such a light rifle and could shoot the rifle all day long off a bench if required. I'll probably need all day to work up a load since the barrel heats up really quickly!! Now to the not so good news. I was inspecting some of the fired cases and noticed an annular ring on the brass about 1/4" down from the shoulder. My first thought was that the chamber reamer had left a high spot but once I polished the cases and used a loupe to look at the ring, it's clear that the brass is blowing out into a gouge in the chamber. I can see the gouge in the chamber when I use a flashlight. If the defect were raised up I could polish it out but since it's a gouge the rifle will have to go back to Kimber. AAAARRRGGGG!!! :banghead:

http://thr.mcmxi.org/rifles/kimber/montana/84m/targets/05_26_13/84m_montana_150_club.jpg

http://thr.mcmxi.org/rifles/kimber/montana/84m/photos/84m_montana_150_club.jpg

C-grunt
May 27, 2013, 03:18 PM
That sucks man.

1858
May 27, 2013, 03:31 PM
That sucks man.

Tell me about it! Of the last nine rifles I've bought, four have had issues ranging from minor (I fixed myself) to major (had or will have to send back). I should have sent the Savage back but decided to resolve that one myself.

Vern Humphrey
May 27, 2013, 06:21 PM
In the first and second pictures, you're looking at the coned breech of the rifle -- The 84M does have a Winchester/Springfield coned breech.

Essentially, the cone has cut into the threads and a piece has broken off. For what you pay for a Kimber, that's not acceptable. I'd send it back.

1858
May 27, 2013, 07:58 PM
Essentially, the cone has cut into the threads and a piece has broken off. For what you pay for a Kimber, that's not acceptable. I'd send it back.

The rifle will have to go back but not for the reason you mention. The hole at the 6 o'clock position in the cone is machined. Kimber machines a flat on the underside of the barrel to provide clearance for the front action screw. The irony is that the screw doesn't need any clearance. I'm not crazy about the hole but I can live with it if the rifle shoots well which it seems to.

1858
May 30, 2013, 12:42 PM
I emailed the photo of the fired cases to Kimber yesterday and spoke with Sergio in customer service this morning. He basically told me that if the rifle is firing factory ammunition and ejecting spent cases properly then that's all the rifle needs to do. I mentioned that I'm concerned about case life but he mentioned that Kimber doesn't approve of using reloaded ammunition so the condition of fired cases is not their problem (ouch!!). Supposedly one of his techs looked at the photo as well and stated that the condition of the fired brass was "normal". I ordered a Winchester Model 70 Extreme Weather SS in .308 Win yesterday to make up for my disappointment.

I'm done complaining about this rifle. Maybe I'll order a new barrel without a flat machined at 6 o'clock and have my friendly gunsmith install it for me. If Krieger wasn't 10 months behind I'd consider one of their barrels and turn this rifle into a semi-custom hunting rifle.

deputydad
June 3, 2013, 05:23 PM
I have both an 308 and 7-08 in the 84M Montana, neither look like that...

Joemyxplyx
June 4, 2013, 08:07 AM
I've been wanting an ultra light rifle for mountain hunting for some time now. I've been looking at the Kimber 84m and the Forbes 24B.

There have been stories of quality control problems at Kimber and of bad customer service. Some said the quality control was a teething problem and had been corrected years ago.

It seems the quality control is still haphazard and customer service is as bad as rumored.

In some sense it may be true that all the Kimbers have to do is work with factory ammunition. But that's not what I expect of my rifles. Tailoring the ammo to the rifle and my needs is half the fun of owning good rifles.

Kimber doesn't seem to want to make or service the kind of rifle I'd like to have. Paying an extra $200 for the Forbes 24B over the Kimber 84M seems little enough to avoid dealing with Kimber.

1858
June 4, 2013, 10:04 AM
Kimber doesn't seem to want to make or service the kind of rifle I'd like to have. Paying an extra $200 for the Forbes 24B over the Kimber 84M seems little enough to avoid dealing with Kimber.

Joemyxplyx, I was able to convince Kimber (with some help) to address the issue and they emailed me a UPS pre-paid shipping label so I'll be returning the rifle to them this week. I should stress that this is my third Kimber rifle and the reason that I ordered an 84M is because both of my 8400s are superb rifles. The 84M hasn't been a great experience thus far although it does shoot well. Hopefully Kimber will install a new barrel but it's going to take a while. Their turnaround time is about 6 to 8 weeks at present.

Dave P
June 4, 2013, 10:23 AM
Maybe I don't understand, but ... how can kimber machine a flat bottom on the bbl, when the bottom is not determined until the bbl is fully torqued down? Do they install the bbl twice???

Or is the orientation of the barrel fixed in some way that I don't see?

1858
June 4, 2013, 10:49 AM
how can kimber machine a flat bottom on the bbl, when the bottom is not determined until the bbl is fully torqued down? Do they install the bbl twice???

Good question. Perhaps they use a jig to set the headspace, add the extractor cutout and the flat for the front action screw before installing the barrel on a receiver. Without a jig you'd think that they'd need to install/remove the barrel a couple of times.

Joemyxplyx
June 4, 2013, 12:11 PM
1858 wrote: Joemyxplyx, I was able to convince Kimber (with some help) to address the issue and they emailed me a UPS pre-paid shipping label so I'll be returning the rifle to them this week. I should stress that this is my third Kimber rifle and the reason that I ordered an 84M is because both of my 8400s are superb rifles.

I've no doubt Kimber can build a very nice rifle. There are two problems I see: 1) they sometimes make a bad rifle and ship it anyway. Then they deny they did it and won't fix it. 2) the customer service is bad. Sergio's statement to the effect that damaged cases are alright since you have to use factory ammunition in a Kimber anyway, just sucks. He should know serious gun guys want a load tailored to their individual gun and their needs. But he was just putting you off because he didn't want to honor the warranty and fix your gun.

I'm going to get the Forbes because I know Melvin Forbes is an honorable man who will stand behind his guns. Dealing with an honorable man is worth an additional $200 to me. There's an odor of deceit about Kimber.

1858
June 4, 2013, 04:01 PM
I'm going to get the Forbes because I know Melvin Forbes is an honorable man who will stand behind his guns. Dealing with an honorable man is worth an additional $200 to me. There's an odor of deceit about Kimber.

I own five Kimber products and this is my first "less than ideal" experience with them so I don't have a bad opinion of the company ... yet. I had a much worse experience with Savage Arms who wouldn't pay to ship their defective rifle back.

I don't know much about Forbes rifles but if you like Remington style actions then the 24B looks like a great rifle at a very reasonable price. However, I think the $200 difference is a bit of an underestimate. 84M Montana rifles are available for a little over $1,100 so you're probably looking at a $400 difference for an all stainless steel 24B.

rbernie
June 5, 2013, 08:40 AM
If only I could get a Kimber 84 in a raised-comb stock design like Boyd's Prairie Hunter, I'd be all over them. Sadly, they only offer straight comb or tactical stocks, and third-party stock selection for them is pretty poor.

They are nice rifles, especially for the price.

bun007burger
June 9, 2013, 10:47 AM
i am a new member from ireland who had ordered a kimber 84 m in 308 from the uk.it price is about 2400 usd after conversion rates ,pretty expensive.
but it was for a specific job for deerstalking in the hills in winter.
i have got to say after reading members postsand viewing pics i am going to stick to my tikka lite.
thanks for the education!.

Abel
June 9, 2013, 09:01 PM
bun007burger, I wonder if you would get a better deal on a Sako Finnlite?

bun007burger
June 12, 2013, 04:05 PM
great idea exploring that now.
thanks for advice.

1858
July 16, 2013, 11:02 PM
UPDATE:

I got the 84M back from Kimber today. The packing slip indicates that they replaced the barrel and they included a test target shot at 100 yards (shown below). Turnaround was about five weeks and Kimber paid shipping both ways.

http://thr.mcmxi.org/rifles/kimber/montana/84m/targets/test/kimber_84m_test_target.jpg

dvdcrr
July 17, 2013, 11:04 PM
Looks like its going to be a shooter. So far I really like my 8400 270 wsm.

1858
July 17, 2013, 11:25 PM
Looks like its going to be a shooter.

If you look at the group in post #10 you can see that the original barrel was plenty accurate too ... typical Kimber based on my three rifles.


So far I really like my 8400 270 wsm

I have a pair of 8400s, one is a Talkeetna (.375 H&H Mag) and the other is a Montana (.300 WSM). They're AWESOME rifles and some of the best out there for the money. I actually prefer my Winchester Model 70 Extreme Weather SS in .308 Win to the 84M but prefer the 8400s over the same rifle in .300 Win Mag. I'm most likely going to sell the 84M.

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