Guns and ammo on the "Plastic"


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"yote"
March 18, 2004, 12:53 AM
How many of you put guns, ammo, reloading supplies etc.... on the
Plastic. (VISA etc...)? Think about the databases those companys
have. Do you REALLY trust the confidentiality of these people?
I DON'T. I preffer not to leave any more of a trail than I have to.
Not that I have anything to hide, but hey, personal privacy is part
of what this country is all about! Lets hear what you think.

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4v50 Gary
March 18, 2004, 12:58 AM
I've done it, but with a dealer I like, I prefer to write a check. That way they don't lose 3% to the card company.

Kodiak AK
March 18, 2004, 03:15 AM
I refuse to use credit cards period. I never have .It doesn't help that when I got divorced every credit card was in my ex wifes name , and I bet you can guess who gets to pay them off.

swingset
March 18, 2004, 06:42 AM
I refuse to use credit cards period. I never have .It doesn't help that when I got divorced every credit card was in my ex wifes name , and I bet you can guess who gets to pay them off.

Let me clarify your statement. "I used credit cards by letting my wife run up debt". You did use a credit card, you just don't realize it. Her debt=your debt.

BTW, credit cards are wonderful for things like renting cars, and for ordering from companies who you have never dealt with. They will fight fraudelent charges, bad policies or screwups by merchants.

It's the self-restraint part of using them that gets most (including myself occasionally) in trouble.

Langenator
March 18, 2004, 07:32 AM
Since I got my C&R, I've bought 2 SKS's and a large amount of ammo on my card (getting airline miles for it too :D). That's just because I've been ordering things by phone or over the web.

When buying in person, I've always used a check or cash.

Sisco
March 18, 2004, 07:41 AM
I usually don't use the plastic, but if I do it's an NRA card so I can't imagine they'd mind. :p

gggman
March 18, 2004, 08:52 AM
I use my NRA Visa card for everything. I buy my gas and all my purchases for the month, then I do an electronic transfer to make the payment once a month. I never pay a cent in interest, because I pay it off in full every month. The credit card companies call people like me "Deadbeats" because it's like getting an interest free loan every month, but it works good for me. You just have to have the dicipline to not overspend, and pay it in full every month. And I don't go through life worrying about who might be snooping into my private affairs. There's 260 million people in this country, the feds don't have time to look into everyones bank transactions. :scrutiny:

Outlander
March 18, 2004, 09:03 AM
I use plastic all the time when buying ammo on the internet (and pay it off when the bill comes in). The last thing I'm going to worry about is a "paper trail" .... There's so many other ways of being paranoid this doesn't have to be added to the list.
Anyway in this "great state" of NJ :barf: if you buy handgun ammo you have to show your drivers license or your Firearm ID and sign for it.

Zach S
March 18, 2004, 09:44 AM
I rarely carry cash. My regular FFL has never mentioned a 3% fee for the use of my debit card, as often as I use it there, I'd think he would have by now. I'll ask him about it Friday though...

Whitey
March 18, 2004, 09:56 AM
This is what you credit card record looks like to those who "might" look at your buying history - 0948275096-4837586DE96837622-58383JFJSOF.

Imagine just for a second how many people use plastic. When they send you your bill every month there isn't a lady looking at your name and address and sticking the invoice in the envelope and licking the sticky edge. It's all done by a machine and again, you look like this :
68492054757y49839-FDJSHFH284857Y632SJDNVXSZO11937576385939

Not like this: John Doe

JPM63US
March 18, 2004, 10:08 AM
As with any credit card transaction, the only real issue is - do you have teh money to pay for what you just bought. Buying anything on credit which does not appreciate is a bad idea.

JPM

Rickstir
March 18, 2004, 11:07 AM
Whitey,
Yes its all in machine. But it can be processed by another machine. The who you are is a number, databases can easily put a name with a number. So say some wierdo at BATF wants to see how much evial assault weapon ammo has been purchased in lets say, California (sorry for the spelling error..should be **********). One piece of that number is the product code for 7.62 X .39 JHP. Again, the "machine" can put a description to a number. Bar codes are great at giving everything a unique product number.
Now I will grant you that there is going to be a big pile of data to wade through, but then again, these guys get paid by the hour, so to speak. If the report grinds for two days (and a processor speeds that is a lot of work), what do they care?
They can just as easily ask, how much ammo has Whitey bought. Different report, same outcome.
So the data is piling up in the databases of the credit card companies and who knows what kind of working agreements they have with the feds. Even if they don't have any they are a court order away from having to turn it over in the name of National Security. One of the goals of the Department of Home Land Security is to be able to monitor purchases.
Big Brother will be watching.

Eskimo Jim
March 18, 2004, 11:22 AM
I try paying cash anyplace I go.

I might like the item or service that I buy very much but I don't like paying for the item or service "twice" by paying with a credit card, then having to send the credit card company a check.

Credit Cards are very helpful for online purchases, mail order, renting a car, making a hotel reservation, etc. However, those conveniences come with a cost. The ability to snoop into your purchases is one of those prices. The merchant being forced to mark up their items to cover the cost of providing the credit option for their customers is another price that is paid by the consumer.

I don't like credit card companies or stores for that matter keeping track of what I buy because then they sell that information to merchants who then fill up my mailbox or email address with junk mail.

-Jim

AJ Dual
March 18, 2004, 12:11 PM
The credit card companies call people like me "Deadbeats" because it's like getting an interest free loan every month, but it works good for me.

gggman, you're no "deadbeat", the issuing bank and Visa/MasterCard still makes processing fees from the merchants who accept the card. So even if you are timely and never pay a dime of interest, the issuing bank and the card network still make money off your purchases.

Greg L
March 18, 2004, 12:12 PM
No, I don't use a credit card for any firearm related purchases (although I will use a debit card for phone/internet orders). At this point in time I have enough weapons & ammo here where I don't need to get something right now. I figure that if I can't pay in cash (or have it debited from my checking acct) then I really have no business buying whatever as the money is needed for other bills at the moment. If I was out of town/state in a 9/11 type of situation then I would have no problem buying something with a credit card as suddenly I might have a need of the weapon to get home again (assumption being made that I flew wherever w/ no weapons & now the airlines are shut down & I have to rent a car to get home again).

Of course there are exceptions to this rule like if I found an estate sale where I could pick up an entire collection for pennies on the dollar. That would be worth it, however in general I don't finance any gun stuff.

As to the other part (tin foil hat stuff), I figure that I'm on so many lists already that one more won't make a difference :D .

Greg

gggman
March 18, 2004, 12:27 PM
OK, I know this isn't related to guns, but you folks who prefer to pay cash for everything, when you gas up your car, you pump the gas, then you go inside and wait in line behind some idiot buying 20 scratch lottery tickets, and some kid who get's carded trying to buy beer. Then you get to pay the cashier. Not me. I won't buy gas at anyplace that doesn't have "pay at the pump". I insert my credit card, pump the gas and I'm gone. :neener:

Fudgie Ghost
March 18, 2004, 12:54 PM
Even if you pay in cash, or money orders to online or catalog companies, who's to say the customer lists/purchase history that the seller has can't be accessed, legally or otherwise?

I can imagine a sceanario where some Federal group gets a subpeneoa (I don't know how you spell that!) for, mmm, say some company that sells ammo if they're looking for some gunman/sniper type, asking for all history of sale of a particular caliber.

OR, if they wanted to figure out who has guns that shoot, say, 223/556 rounds, they could cull purchase history of that caliber. Kinda easy to figure out you've got a EBR if they see someone buying hundreds/thousands of rounds over a given period. Good enough for probable cause.

Who was it who said, "A paranoid is someone who just found out what's going on." --?

jsalcedo
March 18, 2004, 01:00 PM
Stopped using plastic 8 years ago.

If I don't have cash I don't get it.

lycanthrope
March 18, 2004, 01:01 PM
I paid with a card for a Dawson Edge. I would've had to wait longer for the gun if I woudn't have.

Kinsman
March 18, 2004, 01:09 PM
I've bought guns/ammo with plastic, doesn't bother me at all. Well, OK, it does bother me about the database thing....I know that you can search one for, say, 7mm ammo purchased in Montana between July and October or whatever.

Same thing happens when you buy your donuts and Red Bull on the Safeway card....somebody knows. Or could know.

Outlander
March 18, 2004, 01:18 PM
Rickstir: Big Brother will be watching.

Always has been and always will .... lets give him a good show he can remember :neener:

dwkennedy
March 18, 2004, 01:22 PM
I use plastic that pays me a 1% rebate on purchases. So if I buy $1000 worth of ammo, I get $10 back. (which I then spend on more ammo :D )

I also pay for the ammo a month after I bought it. The money sits in my bank and makes another buck or two in interest. This is key here, notice how I already had the money?

The dealers willing to pay the fee for accepting credit cards, since accepting credit cards encourages "unfunded purchasing" and impulse buying. Some dealers offer a discount for cash, and I take advantage of that when I can.

The credit card company is hoping that I'll fall short one month and start racking
up interest charges. I guess it's just too bad for those sharks that I have Iron Discipline and won't fall for their trap. I might take out a loan but it sure as heck won't be for 24% interest, compounded every three minutes.

I too worry about having my purchases tracked and profiled by the card company, or even Law Enforcement (gasp) in the name of anti-terrorism, I'm sure. It's all water under the bridge for me, I'm quite sure my purchasing reputation is already down the tubes. The Man knows where I work, where I live, how much I make, has my fingerprints on file, as well as a stack of 4473's from out-of-business dealers. So I don't worry too much about purchase tracking anymore (not that it's not a problem, I just don't worry about things I can't do much about.)

geegee
March 18, 2004, 02:00 PM
There was one time when I really regretted not using a credit card for a gun purchase. About a year or so before Clinton was elected, I believe AR-15's were selling for around $350-450.00. I was thinking that if Clinton gets elected, these things could be in jeopardy of being in real short (or limited) supply. I was so tempted to buy as many as I could load on my cards and then save a few, and sell the rest.

M reasoning at the time was that I've spent years in the investment business, and know that at some point, you have to be a contrarian. You also need to "gow a pair" and follow a hunch.

I didn't. What a gutless eunuch. :( :banghead: Live and learn. geegee

kfranz
March 18, 2004, 03:45 PM
They got you when you posted here. Ever buy anything from a mailorder place? Familiar with customer lists? The FAC/Makarov barrel situation?

I'm another "pay in full every month" kind of guy. Short of the occasional vending machine purchase, damn near everything I buy goes on a card. It is an interest free loan for 30-60 days, and I don't care who's watching.

Ktulu
March 18, 2004, 03:50 PM
I use plastic as much as possible. I get Cabelas points when I do. WOOO HOOO!

BryanP
March 18, 2004, 04:30 PM
The problem with credit cards for most people is they are spending money they don't really have. My rule is that if I can't save up the cash to buy it I don't need it. And yes, that includes my car. The only debt I have is my mortgage.

Normally I pay by cash or check. I will sometimes use a Visa Debit Card from my bank to purchase some things. Despite what some would have you believe you get ALL of the same protections on that you get with a traditional credit card. There are a few places that refuse to accept them. I just don't do business with those people.

ScottS
March 18, 2004, 05:47 PM
Credit cards protect my purchases online, and earn frequent flyer miles for me at my airline of choice. I especially like the idea of getting FF miles when I buy a gun. Something wrong about it that appeals to me.

I have two young kids. I will not buy gas at a gas station that isn't pay-at-the-pump, because the alternative is get the kids out, haul them into the station, stand behind Mr. 20 Lottery Tickets, then haul them back out and strap them back in. Just doesn't make sense. Credit cards are for convenience, but like many things, require some discipline in your life. No big deal.

Am I worried about Big Brother watching over my shoulder? Let's see, FFL stuff goes on official form, C&R stuff gets logged in my book...like I have time to worry about whether or not BB notices I bought 3000 rounds of 8x57mm ammo last month.

Scott

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