Dry Ice A Destructive Device?


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Midwest
May 30, 2013, 07:30 AM
Is Dry Ice A Destructive Device?

There is a story from Disneyland in California about some dumb prank about someone who put dry ice in a plastic bottle and left it in the trashcan who was arrested and charged with "possessing a destructive device".

My question is, how does one register dry ice or, dry ice in a bottle? In order for someone to be charged with an "destructive device" does it have to be eligible as a destructive device? Are there any dry ice devices in the NFA registry?

And yes it was a stupid stunt and someone could have been seriously hurt, but those people making those dry ice stunt videos on Youtube. Couldn't they be charged with "possessing a destructive device" as well? I was curious about the legalities of it all.

Thanks


http://ktla.com/2013/05/29/toontown-evacuated-after-explosion-at-disneyland/#axzz2Ulkj7gIW

"He was arrested late Tuesday and booked on suspicion of possessing a destructive device, according to a news release from the Anaheim Police Department. His bail was set at $1 million.:"


"Dry ice appeared to have been placed in a plastic bottle that was left in the trash can, police said."

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tnxdshooter
May 30, 2013, 07:34 AM
Is Dry Ice A Destructive Device?

There is a story from Disneyland in California about some dumb prank about someone who put dry ice in a plastic bottle and left it in the trashcan who was arrested and charged with "possessing a destructive device".

My question is, how does one register dry ice or, dry ice in a bottle? In order for someone to be charged with an "destructive device" does it have to be eligible as a destructive device? Are there any dry ice devices in the NFA registry?

And yes it was a stupid stunt and someone could have been seriously hurt, but those people making those dry ice stunt videos on Youtube. Couldn't they be charged with "possessing a destructive device" as well? I was curious about the legalities of it all.

Thanks


http://ktla.com/2013/05/29/toontown-evacuated-after-explosion-at-disneyland/#axzz2Ulkj7gIW

"He was arrested late Tuesday and booked on suspicion of possessing a destructive device, according to a news release from the Anaheim Police Department. His bail was set at $1 million.:"


"Dry ice appeared to have been placed in a plastic bottle that was left in the trash can, police said."

Yeah,

You can make dry ice bombs out of it. I know here you can get it from the fire department but you have to get some kind of permit for it.

Sent from my mind using ninja telepathy.

RTR_RTR
May 30, 2013, 08:11 AM
You can make the same types of bombs with a number of different household chemicals - nothing special about dry ice (actually probably one of the safer ways to do it). The substances aren't regulated (and I know I could buy dry ice if I wanted to without any special permit), so I assume they would go after you for the actual construction or intent to construct, but IDK the law, just making a guess

sniper5
May 30, 2013, 08:25 AM
In California under PC 12301 virtually any intentional overpressurizing of a container constitutes a destructive device.

Section 12301
(a)The term “destructive device,” as used in this chapter, shall include any of the following weapons:

(1)Any projectile containing any explosive or incendiary material or any other chemical substance, including, but not limited to, that which is commonly known as tracer or incendiary ammunition, except tracer ammunition manufactured for use in shotguns.

(2)Any bomb, grenade, explosive missile, or similar device or any launching device therefor.

(3)Any weapon of a caliber greater than 0.60 caliber which fires fixed ammunition, or any ammunition therefor, other than a shotgun (smooth or rifled bore) conforming to the definition of a “destructive device” found in subsection (b) of Section 479.11 of Title 27 of the Code of Federal Regulations, shotgun ammunition (single projectile or shot), antique rifle, or an antique cannon. For purposes of this section, the term “antique cannon” means any cannon manufactured before January 1, 1899, which has been rendered incapable of firing or for which ammunition is no longer manufactured in the United States and is not readily available in the ordinary channels of commercial trade. The term “antique rifle” means a firearm conforming to the definition of an “antique firearm” in Section 479.11 of Title 27 of the Code of Federal Regulations.

(4)Any rocket, rocket-propelled projectile, or similar device of a diameter greater than 0.60 inch, or any launching device therefor, and any rocket, rocket-propelled projectile, or similar device containing any explosive or incendiary material or any other chemical substance, other than the propellant for that device, except those devices as are designed primarily for emergency or distress signaling purposes.

(5)Any breakable container which contains a flammable liquid with a flashpoint of 150 degrees Fahrenheit or less and has a wick or similar device capable of being ignited, other than a device which is commercially manufactured primarily for the purpose of illumination.

(6)Any sealed device containing dry ice (CO2) or other chemically reactive substances assembled for the purpose of causing an explosion by a chemical reaction.

(b)The term “explosive,” as used in this chapter, shall mean any explosive defined in Section 12000 of the Health and Safety Code.


So pretty much, if it goes "boom" they'll look for someone to throw in jail.

Sam1911
May 30, 2013, 08:43 AM
Exactly. Dry ice is not a destructive device, nor is it regulated in any way (that I've ever heard of). You can buy it from ice companies to put in your cooler to keep things cold longer. (The creamery at my university used to sell it so folks could take their ice cream back home with them on long trips.)

"Destructive Device" in this case doesn't mean "National Firearms Act, Title II firearm, Destructive Device." That's federal law. This is state law, and the term means whatever that state says it does in its code regarding explosive and dangerous items like bombs of various kinds.

NormB
May 30, 2013, 08:48 AM
You know, you could drown someone with a jug of water under the right conditions, but I don't think water is ever classified as a "hazardous substance" anywhere. But give it time...

Funny thing. My son and I bought dry ice at a local Safeway store a couple years ago and made dry ice "bombs" in our yard. It was fun, harmless fun. Not much different from water balloons or bangsite cannons (which we break out on Independence Day every year).

Carl N. Brown
May 30, 2013, 08:50 AM
States have laws on destructive devices, so the NFA may not be involved here.

Dry ice alone is not a destructive device, but for that matter gunpowder alone is not a destructive device

Roughly, a destructive device can be any device rigged to cause a destructive explosion. Dry ice in a bottle intended to explode at a certain level is a destructive device. I think the level of force to be classed a destructive device should be similar to the difference between firecrackers and bombs.

Precise legal definition is in the various state and federal laws.

I can see the supreme court ruling now: the most stringent protection of funsies with dry ice bombs does not extend to exploding dry ice bombs in a crowded park causing a panic.

"My son and I bought dry ice at a local Safeway store a couple years ago and made dry ice "bombs" in our yard." Time, place, and people affected make all the difference.

1911Tuner
May 30, 2013, 10:31 AM
Dry ice alone is not a destructive device, but for that matter gunpowder alone is not a destructive device.

There's the crux of the matter. Black powder isn't classed as destructive. Pour it into a metal pipe, cap it off, and add a fuse...and you've got yourself a ticket for an extended vacation at Club Fed.

JustinJ
May 30, 2013, 11:13 AM
In sixth grade our science teacher took us out to the football field one day, filled a 3 liter bottle with dry ice and let it blow up.

WardenWolf
May 30, 2013, 11:37 AM
That's California for you. Deliberately classify something often used as a high school and college prank as a felony.

Jim Watson
May 30, 2013, 11:41 AM
I think the real offense was Alarming Paying Customers at Major Attraction in State With too Little Revenue.

Sam1911
May 30, 2013, 11:43 AM
That's California for you. Deliberately classify something often used as a high school and college prank as a felony.Ironic, isn't it, how many college and high school pranks are reclassified as vandalism, destruction of property, or even destructive devices once we look at them from the perspective of the folks who's property was damaged, buildings were defaced, or when ... not to put too fine a point on it ... someone goes and leaves explosive devices in trash cans in a public place, kills people, and causes millions and millions of dollars worth of public (and private) lost finances.

This goon thought putting something in a trash can to go "bang" and scare folks would be a good idea in the wake of Boston?

Perhaps this idiot being charged with a serious crime will dissuade others from stupid and destructive "fun."

HexHead
May 30, 2013, 11:49 AM
We've collectively completely lost our minds in this country.

Sam1911
May 30, 2013, 11:55 AM
We've collectively completely lost our minds in this country.Naah, I'm sure there always have been clueless dolts like this in society. We've just started to lose our patience with them these days.

shinyroks
May 30, 2013, 12:04 PM
In sixth grade our science teacher took us out to the football field one day, filled a 3 liter bottle with dry ice and let it blow up.
Where'd he get the 3-liter bottle?:scrutiny:

Double Naught Spy
May 30, 2013, 01:03 PM
Naah, I'm sure there always have been clueless dolts like this in society. We've just started to lose our patience with them these days.

I have to agree. If it wasn't for the repeated acts of stupidity performed by people with previously ordinary items, we would not have so many regulations.

Arizona_Mike
May 30, 2013, 03:27 PM
Here in AZ is it not a DD unless you intend to use it against people or property.

Mike

Zoogster
May 30, 2013, 06:06 PM
There is state and there is federal statutes.

There is many times they can share the same name while having very different definitions.
The same exists between various states.

You will see this for example in a large number of California weapon laws, which through case law can mean things quite different from dictionary definitions or the definition of the same term in another state.


Just as 'loaded' has a different meaning in jursidictions around the nation. In some it means a round in the chamber. In some in a magazine without needing to be in the chamber. In some just being possessed together.



California has similarly borrowed some of the federal terminology, then applied different meanings to some of it.
For example you see they include things over 60 caliber, while federally the cutoff is 50 caliber.
Similarly a short barreled shotgun in California includes things like the Taurus judge, while federally that is not a short barreled shotgun.
Yet a news story on someone in possession of or sentenced for having a short barreled shotgun in California might give people images of a cut down long gun, and something needing an NFA tax stamp, and not the Taurus Judge they own themselves which might be what the individual in the story actually possessed. (To further add to such confusion a news story will often use a picture for the story of some general weapon that is close and may actually show a generic photo of a cut down long gun even if it was something else. So when they hear 'short barreled shotgun', grab a picture of such a thing to display with the story, it will most likely be of a cut down long gun even if the actual gun was a Judge, or snake charmer or something similar.)

NormB
May 30, 2013, 08:50 PM
In high school, circa 1973, my fellow chem/science lab geek friends pranked several of our "friends" with harmless pyrotechnics. Iodine crystals washed with ammonia went "bang" when students walked on them where we'd scattered them in the hallways. Washing the floors for hours with buckets of dilute periodic acid to leech out the residual iodine was the only punishment we ever got. And a stern "talking to" from our favorite science teacher/former nun that was embarrassing to say the least. I put an M80 in a gym toilet once and flushed it down only to have a friend come out of a stall about two doors down a few seconds after it went off, soaking wet. Fortunately for me he was laughing about it all the way to the showers. We left the cleanup to the janitorial service. Time and place.

RTR_RTR
May 30, 2013, 09:10 PM
Nitrogen triiodide is pretty awesome stuff. Way more dangerous than a dry ice bomb though

tnxdshooter
May 31, 2013, 04:24 AM
You can make the same types of bombs with a number of different household chemicals - nothing special about dry ice (actually probably one of the safer ways to do it). The substances aren't regulated (and I know I could buy dry ice if I wanted to without any special permit), so I assume they would go after you for the actual construction or intent to construct, but IDK the law, just making a guess

Yeah,

Even the works cleaner from dg will blow up in a two litre coke bottle if you shake it up and throw it out in the sun. I've seen it done on you tube. Apparently the chemical change reaction causes it.

Sent from my mind using ninja telepathy.

Crash_Test_Dhimmi
May 31, 2013, 05:30 AM
We used to put MRE heaters in water bottles to help pass the time (but it was overseas, therefore i am not a felon)

xxjumbojimboxx
May 31, 2013, 06:08 AM
In California under PC 12301 virtually any intentional overpressurizing of a container constitutes a destructive device.

Section 12301
(a)The term “destructive device,” as used in this chapter, shall include any of the following weapons:

(1)Any projectile containing any explosive or incendiary material or any other chemical substance, including, but not limited to, that which is commonly known as tracer or incendiary ammunition, except tracer ammunition manufactured for use in shotguns.

(2)Any bomb, grenade, explosive missile, or similar device or any launching device therefor.

(3)Any weapon of a caliber greater than 0.60 caliber which fires fixed ammunition, or any ammunition therefor, other than a shotgun (smooth or rifled bore) conforming to the definition of a “destructive device” found in subsection (b) of Section 479.11 of Title 27 of the Code of Federal Regulations, shotgun ammunition (single projectile or shot), antique rifle, or an antique cannon. For purposes of this section, the term “antique cannon” means any cannon manufactured before January 1, 1899, which has been rendered incapable of firing or for which ammunition is no longer manufactured in the United States and is not readily available in the ordinary channels of commercial trade. The term “antique rifle” means a firearm conforming to the definition of an “antique firearm” in Section 479.11 of Title 27 of the Code of Federal Regulations.

(4)Any rocket, rocket-propelled projectile, or similar device of a diameter greater than 0.60 inch, or any launching device therefor, and any rocket, rocket-propelled projectile, or similar device containing any explosive or incendiary material or any other chemical substance, other than the propellant for that device, except those devices as are designed primarily for emergency or distress signaling purposes.

(5)Any breakable container which contains a flammable liquid with a flashpoint of 150 degrees Fahrenheit or less and has a wick or similar device capable of being ignited, other than a device which is commercially manufactured primarily for the purpose of illumination.

(6)Any sealed device containing dry ice (CO2) or other chemically reactive substances assembled for the purpose of causing an explosion by a chemical reaction.

(b)The term “explosive,” as used in this chapter, shall mean any explosive defined in Section 12000 of the Health and Safety Code.


So pretty much, if it goes "boom" they'll look for someone to throw in jail.
"i shook up a soda can, I went to jail"
watch out californians! :)

Sam1911
May 31, 2013, 08:14 AM
Asked, answered, and this isn't confession time.

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