$300 and no gun at all, but...


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beatledog7
June 7, 2013, 09:42 PM
Inspired by the current $1000 to spend on a gun thread.

If you had no gun at all but had $300 to spend, given current market prices and assuming both the gun and suitable ammo would be available, and the ammo would be reasonably priced (or you could roll your own ammo, again for reasonable prices), what gun would you buy with your $300?

Remember the premise--this will be the only gun you can afford to own.

I have a pretty good idea where this will go (I suspect there will be three primary branches), and I know what I'd buy. Just want to see what others think.

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lpsharp88
June 7, 2013, 09:45 PM
There was a thread on here in the past day or two about a $200 pawn shop Mossberg, I'd go for that and some ammo.

Edit to add:
Here's the thread
http://www.thehighroad.org/showthread.php?t=718096

GlackAttack
June 7, 2013, 09:46 PM
Maybe a high point? Never shot one but hear owners are happy with the value.

Rollis R. Karvellis
June 7, 2013, 09:46 PM
A S&W or Ruger revolver in .357. Obviously used.

David E
June 7, 2013, 09:48 PM
I'd find a good used .38 or .357 revolver or a used Ruger P-95

I would NOT buy a Hipoint.

wgaynor
June 7, 2013, 09:50 PM
Hi point 9mm carbine.

jakk280rem
June 7, 2013, 09:54 PM
Radom P-64, FEG PA-63, and I like the idea of a K frame or Ruger Six series or even a MKII.

Midwest
June 7, 2013, 09:56 PM
Pistol or Long gun?

If you say long gun only like for home defense, I say get a shotgun Mossberg 500 or Remington 870 used. Shotgun shells seem to be in plentiful supply.

Pistol?
New would have to be a Highpoint .45 acp $160 +/- .
Used would be a Rossi .38 spl.

$300 is a bit limiting but doable. I only suggested the Highpoint .45 acp because they are a good shooter, lifetime warranty and well within range of $300 which leaves with several boxes of ammo to buy. It never jammed on me, but the gun is bulky and ugly.

LockedBreech
June 7, 2013, 09:57 PM
Used Ruger P95. Since they're still only about $350 even in the panic climate, I bet $300 would net a LNIB or 90+% used one.

Archaic Weapon
June 7, 2013, 10:01 PM
Talk down a Stoeger Uplander, or get a new bow and a fighting knife. Not much in these parts that low. Add another 50, and a Taurus .357 magnum concealed carry, or a 870 hunting model.

Probably have to go with a bow, though.

splattergun
June 7, 2013, 10:01 PM
Used Mossberg 500. Can be used well for defense, hunting, and sport.

Jlr2267
June 7, 2013, 10:07 PM
12 Ga Mossberg
#8 for birds
#6 for squirrels/rabbits
Buckshot for HD
Slugs for bigger game

beatledog7
June 7, 2013, 10:08 PM
All good answers so far. Please, keep them coming.

I suspected many would say a shotgun in 12ga, and I suspected many would choose a handgun in a common SD chambering (9mm, .45acp, .38SPL/.357Mag).

But one category I thought would get a lot of play has not yet been mentioned...

Archaic Weapon
June 7, 2013, 10:10 PM
Does bow not count as 3?

lpsharp88
June 7, 2013, 10:12 PM
No one has mentioned a .22 (I don't think).

Never mind, a Ruger MKII was mentioned

zorro45
June 7, 2013, 10:15 PM
I'd take the $300 and buy a rake, a shovel and a wheelbarrow. Then I'd walk around to my neighbors and see who needed any yard work done. Then when l
had enough money I'd buy a used .38 and plenty of ammunition for practice. In my area this would cost at least $400 used, .38 ammo is pretty readily available now at Cabellas. To get a permit in my state would cost around $350 for the class, fingerprints, and permit. Here is another idea, I'll bet some folks would gladly trade an old rifle or shotgun for some help shoveling snow in the winter.

Telekinesis
June 7, 2013, 10:26 PM
I would go with either a used S&W Model 10 or a Radom P64 with some new Wolf springs to get the DA trigger under control.

beatledog7
June 7, 2013, 10:28 PM
I missed the Mk II. That covered the other main branch I suspected, sort of. I was expecting someone to propose a long gun in .22LR.

ngnrd
June 7, 2013, 10:31 PM
I picked up a brand new Tikka T3 Lite in 270 last November for $350, and I had to scope it before it was usable. So... even though it was a great deal, that wouldn't qualify.

For $300...? That would be tough. I just checked the local gun board. The following firearms are currently listed for $300 or less:

Savage 110 in 7mm mag with scope base and iron sights
a couple of 25acp and 380acp pistols
Mosin 91/30
a few 20 and 12 gauge shotguns
a couple of 22 rifles and a few 22 pistols
KelTec P11 9mm
Lee Enfield MK-4 .303
Sporterized M98 7mm Mauser with scope rings
Savage 110 in 30-06
Hi Point 9mm and 45's
Yugoslavian M57 Tokarev
a couple of muzzle loaders
Savage M42 22/.410 over-under
Remington 770 in 300WM, scoped
Yugo SKS
Rossi 357mag
Taurus single action 357mag
Remington 710 in 300WM

Of these, the Sporterized M98 7mm Mauser would be on my list because it seems to have some character. But, I would probably get the Savage 110 in 7mm mag, because I could shoot it with the irons until I could afford a scope.

OARNGESI
June 7, 2013, 10:35 PM
Used ruger mk 3

beatledog7
June 7, 2013, 10:40 PM
ngnrd,

That's an intriguing list, don't you think? A person could outfit his personal collection reasonably well with nothing but ≤$300 firearms.

ngnrd
June 7, 2013, 10:55 PM
Indeed, it is beetledog. I really had no idea there was such a varied selection of inexpensive firearms for sale here. Plenty to choose from, for sure. Everything from moose guns, to camp guns, to plinkers, to home defense guns. Even handguns from 22 to 45 and 357. Not too terrible.

Blackcat602
June 7, 2013, 11:03 PM
Ruger 10/22 (Birch stock on Cabelas is $239, scope it with the change...even if it is a Tasco),o r a Henry 22 lever.

azyogi
June 7, 2013, 11:15 PM
My choice would be a Zastava M88A or M70A. 9mm Tokarev style semiauto with a hammer block slide mounted safety. J&G Sales in Prescott AZ has them for $259. Slim as only a single stack can be, rugged as an eastern bloc duty weapon is expected. My EDC since 92 very little to maintain in all that time. Added three dot sights with ease, but a good high glow paint is nearly as good. The extra $41 buy a Lee Precision Classic Field Loader.

smalls
June 7, 2013, 11:26 PM
When I turned 21 my mother paid for my CPL class as a birthday present. I was in college, and super broke (although, that still hasn't changed, haha). I did a lot of research on the popular inexpensive guns and settled on a S&W Sigma in 9mm for my first pistol. I paid ~$320 for it after tax.

Yeah, the trigger sucks, but it's manageable. But the selling point was the reliability, and ease of maintenance. The only malfunction I've ever had with it is a squib. Obviously not the guns fault. It was a great first carry gun for someone who really can't afford much. It's my wife's bedside gun, now.

MedWheeler
June 7, 2013, 11:36 PM
There is nothing I use a firearm for that cannot be covered with a .22, and the affordability/availability of ammo (in your proposed scenario, which assumes the current situation does not exist) would drive me in that direction.

I'd likely end up with a DA/SA pistol such as the Bersa Thunder/Firestorm .22, or even the DAO Taurus PT-22. In my hands, these can be formidable defensive weapons, and I can still enjoy a lot of shooting with them. They can also be carried outside of the home for defensive use.

I have an excellent AP-22 by FEG of Hungary (a rimfire version of their PA-63), but I would not purchase it in the proposed scenario due to its rarity and that of its parts.

316SS
June 7, 2013, 11:58 PM
Cz 82

Onward Allusion
June 8, 2013, 12:00 AM
Ruger P85 or P95, S&W Sigma, Hi Point, FEG PA-63, S&W 915 all can still be had for right around $300.

denton
June 8, 2013, 12:25 AM
Henry lever action 22, about $275 brand new.

Yugo M48, M48A, or 24/47 8x57, about $225 in good shape. Add Mojo sights for a total of $300. The intermediate length action won't accept a barrel chambered in a 30-06 length cartridge, so they are not in great demand. However, as-is, they make a very capable big game rifle.

For an alternative hunting rifle, the Savage 340, a 30-30 bolt action rifle, for about $225.

Bulgarian or Russian Makarov 9x18 semi-auto handgun, about $275-300. P-63 and P-64 (better) slightly less. On our local board, a P-64 just went for $220.

Used Remington 870 shotgun, about $275 with plastic furniture.

Take your pick, depending on application.

danimoth17
June 8, 2013, 12:43 AM
Canik55 TP-9 on sale right now for $299, 18rds of 9mm

Ignition Override
June 8, 2013, 01:10 AM
It might be best to first wait for more ammo types to become cheaper and more available.
My guns are only bought after buying a chunk of ammo.

Right now, if you can find a really good Mosin 91/30, the ammo should be .20/round.
You're going to pay a lot more for 8mm Mauser ammo, despite the excellent value for many Yugo Mausers.

vagunmonkey
June 8, 2013, 01:15 AM
S&W 40VE and no shortage of 40 ammo :)

tomrkba
June 8, 2013, 01:17 AM
For what purpose? A Ruger American is very different from a carry gun.

David E
June 8, 2013, 01:41 AM
Why is everyone asking "for what purpose?" Or, "handgun or long gun?" "For hunting or defense?"

The question is, if YOU were gunless and only had $300, what would YOU buy?

What is important to YOU?

Me, I want a center fire handgun first, but I'd buy more as able.

45lcshooter
June 8, 2013, 01:41 AM
a home made cannon for long range, and a sawed off 12ga for short and medium range. cost 301.00. hahahaha


I would say Remington 870 Super Mag with 2 barrels.

Texan Scott
June 8, 2013, 02:26 AM
Mossberg Maverick 88.

sidheshooter
June 8, 2013, 02:35 AM
buds trade in M10 K-frame, or same from another source.

tarosean
June 8, 2013, 02:53 AM
Rem 870.

BemidjiDweller
June 8, 2013, 03:03 AM
I'd buy a Mosin Nagant T53 from SOG and two tins of ammo.

TennJed
June 8, 2013, 03:47 AM
There is nothing I use a firearm for that cannot be covered with a .22, and the affordability/availability of ammo (in your proposed scenario, which assumes the current situation does not exist) would drive me in that direction.

I'd likely end up with a DA/SA pistol such as the Bersa Thunder/Firestorm .22, or even the DAO Taurus PT-22. In my hands, these can be formidable defensive weapons, and I can still enjoy a lot of shooting with them. They can also be carried outside of the home for defensive use.

I have an excellent AP-22 by FEG of Hungary (a rimfire version of their PA-63), but I would not purchase it in the proposed scenario due to its rarity and that of its parts.

I agree about the 22, but I would get a used Ruger MKIII (prob 22/45) or buckmark

Sgt_R
June 8, 2013, 04:55 AM
Makarov 9x18, or possibly a used S&W 642 if I could find one under $300.

R

Beentown
June 8, 2013, 06:25 AM
Cz 82

yep. Or a police turn in Glock.

MARKMALL
June 8, 2013, 07:38 AM
If I had no guns and $300.00, the first gun I would buy would be a 12 ga shotgun. I would most likely buy a single shot 12 ga and a single shot 22 LR. I think you could get both for $300.00.

beatledog7
June 8, 2013, 07:42 AM
Why is everyone asking "for what purpose?" Or, "handgun or long gun?" "For hunting or defense?"

The question is, if YOU were gunless and only had $300, what would YOU buy?

What is important to YOU?

Precisely right. I know we get a lot of "what should I buy" threads that ask the question in a second person manner, but this really is a "what would you buy" question, and therefore the purpose is yours to determine.

Many responders went for multipurpose guns, such as a 12 gauge pump gun. That's what I'd buy given the stated parameters. Others went for a gun that fully or as closely as possible meets their most compelling need but would be largely unsuitable for other uses, such as a CCW. It's an interesting conundrum.

Cryogaijin
June 8, 2013, 07:49 AM
Mosin and 440 rounds of ammo

Ed Ames
June 8, 2013, 07:58 AM
Totally depends on where I'm living.

Everywhere I have ever actually lived: Police trade-in revolver. S&W model 10, Taurus 65, or similar. Regularly available under $300, and capable of anything I'll ever need (from SD/HD to subsistence hunting) in my hands.

Most rural areas: TRY to find is a used H&R/NEF handi-rifle in anything stouter than .223 and send it back to add a shotgun barrel. With a good deal on the base rifle that could come in at under $300. Otherwise I'd try to cherry pick a Rossi "trifecta" or whatever they are calling then three barrel combos they sell for under $300.

A few rural areas would get a cheap bolt gun, some others would get a 12ga pump, but mostly that has it covered.

I have personal experience with many of the guns already mentioned in this thread and a lot of them are good choices. CZ82, mosins, S&W sigmas, various .22 guns, etc all have a lot to recommend them. For me the balance tips towards the guns I mentioned because any situation that has me limited to $300 for a gun is also going to push me to cheaper practice (e.g. wax or plastic bullets fired by primer alone) and hand loading (which means I want to recover as much brass as possible)...which revolvers make easy. Without that consideration I would probably look for a Sigma (probably the best universally despised gun ever sold) or a 7.62x25 of some flavor.

HexHead
June 8, 2013, 08:06 AM
I paid $200 OTD for my Model 10, put some new grips on it and buy ammo.

BrotherFrankie
June 8, 2013, 08:50 AM
I'd find a good used .38 or .357 revolver or a used Ruger P-95

I would NOT buy a Hipoint.
used P95

buds gunshop has police trade in 38 sp smith and wessons for 259

jm2cents

wdunlap
June 8, 2013, 07:57 PM
Taurus TCP .380 for $199.99 some fmj and defensive ammo and a pocket holster all for under $300.00

Thermactor
June 8, 2013, 08:44 PM
Well, back in '08 you could have picked up a Sig Sauer P6 9mm ex-West German Police pistol for $250 from AIM surplus when a big batch of them got sent over this way. I'd say that was the surplus deal of a lifetime.

huntsman
June 8, 2013, 09:08 PM
I have to go with what I carry every day, LCP

General Geoff
June 8, 2013, 09:55 PM
Mosin and 440 rounds of ammo

Winner winner, chicken dinner! :)

denton
June 8, 2013, 10:05 PM
You're going to pay a lot more for 8mm Mauser ammo

You can buy ammo already put together? Why wasn't I told? :)

MinnesotaFats
June 8, 2013, 10:17 PM
the 200$ pawn shop mossberg 500 i posted a thread about a few days ago or a savage stevens model 200.

Agsalaska
June 8, 2013, 10:23 PM
I found a Remington 121 Fieldmaster in 22lr. that was in pretty good shape other than the SS number someone had etched into it 50 something years ago. I think they had it priced $279 But I bet I could get it and a brick or two for $300. THey were never going to sell it like that.



I suppose I might try to combine some kind of cheap single shot 22 with a cheap but usable revolver in 38. But that would be pretty tough to do now. So I guess just spend it all on the 22



Edit-I dont know why I didnt think of a 22 handgun. That would be considered instead of the rifle. It would be a close call.

coloradokevin
June 9, 2013, 04:33 AM
With no gun at all, and only one gun to get, I'd probably go with something like a Mossberg 500 (that was actually my first gun, so I have some justifications I can give you):

1) You can hunt pretty much anything with a shotgun. Birds, small mammals, large mammals, and even dangerous large mammals if you're close enough.

2) It's a very formidable tool for self defense.

3) They're reliable, and ammo is easy to find for a 12 gauge (even during times of panic I can find 12 gauge ammo).

4) You can still have range fun doing trap/skeet, or hillbilly backyard clays with these guns.

readyeddy
June 9, 2013, 05:05 AM
10/22

cja245
June 9, 2013, 05:06 AM
a mosin nagant and a CZ 82 would be a good start to a gun collection. A year ago, you could have easily gotten both for 300 bucks. A used S&W 357 would make a pretty awesome first gun as well.

Goblin
June 9, 2013, 07:50 AM
Maverick 12ga a variety of diff. ammo types. but....1 gun only!?!?! shudder at the thought!!!!!:eek:

baz
June 9, 2013, 08:35 AM
but....1 gun only!?!?! shudder at the thought!!!!!
At this point, it is hard to imagine any possibility that hasn't already been mentioned. Obviously, different strokes for different folks. In my case, I'd look for the cheapest (but in good working condition) 10/22 or 12 ga I could find, use the change for ammo, and then save up to buy the other. Those two are must-haves in my case. I would never settle for just one gun. Soon after those would come a handgun of some sort, and if money is precious, it would probably be a .357 of some kind. After that, a .30 caliber rifle, probably a Mosin, again assuming money is the deciding factor. Not too long ago, all four of these could be had for under $1k, easy. Still possible, I think, if someone looks long enough, and gets lucky.

bannockburn
June 9, 2013, 10:04 AM
At that price point a used Ruger 10/22 or a used Mossberg 500 would work just fine for me.

modifiedbrowning
June 9, 2013, 10:33 AM
Bersa 9mm.

WoodchuckAssassin
June 9, 2013, 11:11 AM
Remington 870 + box of #4's for defense, box of slugs for big game, and #7 1/2 for everything else.

Swing
June 9, 2013, 11:26 AM
Long gun: Used Mossberg pump in 12-gauge.
Handgun: Used Ruger revolver in .38Spl/.357 Mag

No thanks to the Hi Point.

Manny
June 9, 2013, 01:31 PM
Before this latest craziness a new Ruger LCR could be had for $409, now $459. I'd sell plasma, skip lunch, work odd jobs, whatever was needed to get what I needed to get the cash for either a lightly used or new LCR. Some things are worth what they cost, and personal weapons top this list IMHO.

InkEd
June 9, 2013, 02:36 PM
Used revolver

akodo
June 9, 2013, 04:01 PM
I'd go to the back corner of the gunshop to where all the old bolt action shotguns are kept and buy one of those for $75-100.

I'd get one of those fiberoptic front sights, and cut the barrel down to 20 inches.

I'd use the remainder to buy a used 22.

Cee Zee
June 10, 2013, 07:27 PM
I didn't read the thread because the answer to this is obvious. Nothing is as versatile as a shotgun. You can buy several under your $300 price limit including some very good ones. You could get a $200 Mossberg. They're fine shotguns but I prefer the 870 style design so I'd probably go with the clone of the 870, the H&R Pardner Pump. You can buy them brand new in Walmart for under $170. That leaves a LOT of room for ammo which is available for shotguns. If you want a gun that will do many things it will be a shotgun. Think birdshot for hunting birds, killing small game or clearing brush (yeah I've done that but only for tree branches I couldn't get to any other way). You can also shoot clay pigeons for fun and sport, shoot buckshot for HD and for hunting bigger game and shoot slugs for just about any game in N. America. My primary bear gun is a 12 ga. with Brenneke Black Magic slugs in it. You can reload a pump shotgun as you shoot meaning you don't have to pull out a mag to reload it. You just keep shoving rounds into the tube after you shoot a round you load another one in. There isn't much that can stand up to a Black Magic slug. Even a brown bear would have a problem standing up to 4 or 5 of them. Here's a hint. Make sure your shotgun has a recoil pad.

There are other good choices depending on what you think you might need. But my first gun was a shotgun, a Mossberg. I grew up with guns everywhere around the house so I always had access to pretty much any type of gun I wanted and dad gave me that Mossberg too plus a .22 rifle. I bought my own semi-auto pistol. I gave the same shotgun to my daughter for her first gun. Now she also has a revolver. I later bought a Tokarev pistol for $75. It was a great car pistol. There are lots of good choices but a shotgun is a great choice IMO.

I noticed some people suggesting a 10/22. Why? They aren't good for HD which is something I would really want. They're great for hunting and small varmints and plinking (in ordinary times when .22 ammo is abundant and cheap instead of non-existent). Also a Mosin is not exactly the best HD weapon either. It's plenty powerful. Too powerful is the word I'm looking for. You don't want to kill a neighbor in the next county over. And LCP is OK for a pocket pistol. I have one myself. But they have very limited range and capacity. I actually bought the one I have for my wife but she hasn't gotten around to starting to carry it yet. A CZ 82 is an excellent choice and they are just over $200. I'd get a true 9mm. That would give you a good carry weapon and a good HD gun and it won't break the bank. Finding ammo now might be a problem.

Agsalaska
June 10, 2013, 08:46 PM
Cee Zee:

I noticed some people suggesting a 10/22. Why? They aren't good for HD which is something I would really want. They're great for hunting and small varmints and plinking (in ordinary times when .22 ammo is abundant and cheap instead of non-existent). Also a Mosin is not exactly the best HD weapon either. It's plenty powerful. Too powerful is the word I'm looking for. You don't want to kill a neighbor in the next county over. And LCP is OK for a pocket pistol. I have one myself. But they have very limited range and capacity. I actually bought the one I have for my wife but she hasn't gotten around to starting to carry it yet. A CZ 82 is an excellent choice and they are just over $200. I'd get a true 9mm. That would give you a good carry weapon and a good HD gun and it won't break the bank. Finding ammo now might be a problem.


Because HD would not be my first priority. My first priority would be to buy something I would enjoy shooting first and foremost that had the most versatility. In my mind that is a 22. I would have to think about exactly which 22, because HD would also need to be a consideration. But not my first. I want what I enjoy the most.

wyohome
June 10, 2013, 09:05 PM
870

Ed Ames
June 10, 2013, 09:35 PM
I didn't read the thread because the answer to this is obvious. Nothing is as versatile as a shotgun. ...

I don't see that. They are way too legally encumbered to be useful for a lot of people. NFA '34 requires a $200 tax stamp and a long (6mo) wait for one that can even be brought out of the home, and then you have paperwork issues headaches and local restrictions in a lot of areas.

A rifled-barrel handgun (e.g. a S&W m10 ) is immediately usable and can be had for almost the price of the shotty's tax stamp. It can be used for anything from recreational shooting to home/self defense and even hunting. You can buy holsters all day long and cops' eyes won't light up in quite the same way when they find one in your glove box. That makes a handgun far more versatile in my world.

CZguy
June 10, 2013, 09:54 PM
Because HD would not be my first priority. My first priority would be to buy something I would enjoy shooting first and foremost that had the most versatility. In my mind that is a 22. I would have to think about exactly which 22, because HD would also need to be a consideration. But not my first. I want what I enjoy the most.

Thanks for clarifying that. You just can't beat a good .22 for developing the fundamentals of shooting, and just plain fun.

readyeddy
June 10, 2013, 10:44 PM
My guess is that a 10/22 would do just fine for HD if the user had spent countless hours shooting thousands of rounds to the point of being able to point the rifle like pointing a finger.

tarosean
June 11, 2013, 02:04 AM
Originally Posted by Cee Zee View Post
I didn't read the thread because the answer to this is obvious. Nothing is as versatile as a shotgun. ...
I don't see that. They are way too legally encumbered to be useful for a lot of people. NFA '34 requires a $200 tax stamp and a long (6mo) wait for one that can even be brought out of the home, and then you have paperwork issues headaches and local restrictions in a lot of areas.


Did I miss something?

xxjumbojimboxx
June 11, 2013, 02:15 AM
Only one gun?

lord....

I simply cant answer this question with a solid responce. But i will say my first thought was ruger p series. Covers HD, Fun, Even some hunting.

Ignition Override
June 11, 2013, 02:20 AM
Upon reflection (no pun), for a .22 rifle the handy Romanian M-69 Trainer is an excellent value for $120 (today's [small] gun show). Very bright bores are common.The OP can save the difference until .22LR is much cheaper.

kozak6
June 11, 2013, 07:51 AM
I'm currently most concerned with fun in my firearm choice.

I'm thinking a .22 pistol would be most fun for me right now. So, I'd probably hit the pawn shops and see if I could find a nice used Ruger MKII or MKIII.

There was another gun shop I went to a while back that had a bunch of High Standard .22 pistols from $250 on up. I'd stop by there and see if he had anything interesting. Maybe bring a handful of silver to sweeten the deal.

Ed Ames
June 11, 2013, 07:51 AM
Did I miss something?

If you live in a rural area you probably aren't following me. I'm expressing urban/suburban reality.

I was obliquely pointing out that shotguns are huge, and bringing them down to reasonable size involves paying the tax man $200. Unless you do that, you have a very difficult time using a shotgun for anything but home defense and licensed hunting of in-season game, and even that may be difficult depending on your living situation.

Uncut shotguns must be disassembled and packed into non-gun cases (baseball bags or whatever) to safely move from the house unless you have an attached garage. Even there you must be careful - people will break into your house to steal musical instruments and sporting equipment almost as eagerly as they'll break in to steal guns.

In my world, a shotgun is a special-use luxury. A handgun is far more generally useful. That's because I'm basically urban.

Doc7
June 11, 2013, 08:20 AM
If you live in a rural area you probably aren't following me. I'm expressing urban/suburban reality.

I was obliquely pointing out that shotguns are huge, and bringing them down to reasonable size involves paying the tax man $200. Unless you do that, you have a very difficult time using a shotgun for anything but home defense and licensed hunting of in-season game, and even that may be difficult depending on your living situation.

Uncut shotguns must be disassembled and packed into non-gun cases (baseball bags or whatever) to safely move from the house unless you have an attached garage. Even there you must be careful - people will break into your house to steal musical instruments and sporting equipment almost as eagerly as they'll break in to steal guns.

In my world, a shotgun is a special-use luxury. A handgun is far more generally useful. That's because I'm basically urban.

I'm "basically urban" as well but I don't really think your post reflects reality. I'm not naive about the risks in this world but I don't think that it is unreasonable for someone to own a shotgun in an area like this just because it is a few feet long.

Ed Ames
June 11, 2013, 09:26 AM
I'm "basically urban" as well but I don't really think your post reflects reality. I'm not naive about the risks in this world but I don't think that it is unreasonable for someone to own a shotgun in an area like this just because it is a few feet long.

Hmm...maybe it's a matter of understanding. You can own them. I never said otherwise. They're just not very useful relative to guns that can be carried in a lunch box. It isn't unreasonable to own something that isn't practical...I own many things that are impractical for my current situation and I'm eminently reasonable...it's just unreasonable to buy the impractical first.

The first priority gun for most people is a handgun, because a handgun can be used/carried in the widest range of circumstances. A .38 revolver can stop a rape or a home invasion. It can also take down a rabbit or even a deer, law allowing. It may be legally barred from taking migratory waterfowl but they have taken many birds over the years.

For a city dweller I think there is a strong argument that gun #2 should be an AR in .223 because it can still be brought out of the home in disassembled form, many indoor ranges allow .223, and overpenetration risks are much lower than with effective shotgun ammo. Of course that's over budget for this thread.

A shotgun is a distant 3rd in my opinion.

Of course, if you live in a more rural setting the order may be reversed. At some point a shotgun is something you can use to shoot pests in the garden. I don't live in such a situation and I'm not sure I'll ever have the opportunity to but if I did my shotguns would seem more useful to me. Right now they are difficult to use for security reasons (even with a barrel pulled and put in a sports bag they hint I have stuff worth stealing) and there aren't very many trap/skeet ranges around anyway so they aren't used very often. If I had to abandon one branch of shooting altogether, my shotguns would be gone. Of course I didn't even own a shotgun until I had a good selection of handguns and rifles.

scythefwd
June 11, 2013, 06:38 PM
I'll be the dissenter here.. I've NEVER seen a used ruger or smith going for under 300. A rossi M58 revolver will though. A FEG P9R is another good choice. A used charter arms (take someone who knows revolvers to look it over). You might luck out and find a Sig SP2022 just a hair above that.

Ed Ames
June 11, 2013, 06:59 PM
I'll be the dissenter here.. I've NEVER seen a used ruger or smith going for under 300. A rossi M58 revolver will though. A FEG P9R is another good choice. A used charter arms (take someone who knows revolvers to look it over). You might luck out and find a Sig SP2022 just a hair above that.

Go to budsgunshop.com, select used guns/police trade-ins. S&W m10 used for $279. They had 'em cheaper a few weeks ago.

I bought a used m10 maybe 5 years ago from a local shop, same sort of deal. One day I went in and they had an entire counter full of used S&W Model 10s and Taurus 65s from a police/security company trade-in. I think mine was $199 at the time and people told me I overpaid. Maybe it was $250 but I think that was the price on the Tauruses.

But...P9R is a great choice too. I know someone with a pair of consecutively numbered P9Rs bought under a "two is one and one is none" umbrella. They have both been solid since the early 90s. They are a DA/SA semi-auto with decocker, which some people may not dig but I always thought was a good trade-off.

I have seen Rossi (I think) snub nosed 44 magnum revolvers at Academy on sale for just under $300.

91/30
June 11, 2013, 07:03 PM
M91/30 still under $170 locally, ammo $12 a box, $17 for soft points.

scythefwd
June 11, 2013, 08:48 PM
Go to budsgunshop.com, select used guns/police trade-ins. S&W m10 used for $279. They had 'em cheaper a few weeks ago.

+ 20 for the transfer (cheapest around here), there any tax on budz? There any shipping on budz? If not, I'll admit that fits his criteria.. but yeah.. its pretty difficult to do 300.

xxjumbojimboxx
June 11, 2013, 08:50 PM
I know buds dont charge no shippin. all there prices say "shipped" tax is subject to interstate commerce... are you in their state?

scythefwd
June 11, 2013, 09:05 PM
jumbo.. havent the slightest clue if I am or not.. I'm in VA, but I dont order guns online.. never have. I usually can get as good if not better prices locally for the stuff I'm interested in (got some great home FFL's here that are pretty well connected).

beatledog7
June 11, 2013, 09:11 PM
Bud's is in Lexington, KY

scythefwd
June 11, 2013, 09:28 PM
so 300 it is.. cool.

taraquian
June 11, 2013, 11:50 PM
A Bersa Thunder380 (my 1st gun) 289
a Mossberg 500 (my 1st longgun) 229 or
EAA SarB6p (gun I should be getting thisnweekend) 299

These are/were at my LGS, the Bersa is a gun I have recommended to many other people

xjsnake
June 11, 2013, 11:54 PM
12 ga pump. Gets food, defends loved ones and is stupidly reliable.

Chevelle SS
June 12, 2013, 01:21 AM
A husquvarna sxs shotgun

Njal Thorgeirsson
June 12, 2013, 02:09 AM
To be creative....

A $100 pawn shop shotgun (sxs would be cool, but a usable one would probably be more, so probably just a break-open single-shot most likely), and the $200 tax stamp to make a low-budget sawed-off

ThatGuyHank
June 12, 2013, 02:47 PM
Maverick 88 12ga for 220 and some boxes of ammo if we're talking long guns.

Pistol could be a Tokarev for 200 (either 7.62x25 or one of those fancy 9mm ones) and some ammo as well.

beatledog7
June 12, 2013, 04:09 PM
Thanks everyone for the responses. It's interesting to see what sort of need or range of needs different people will address and in what way.

Arkansas Paul
June 12, 2013, 04:14 PM
12 gauge pump.
It covers a lot of bases.

GrOuNd_ZeRo
June 12, 2013, 04:48 PM
Hi-Point 995 9mm carbine, easier to shoot than a pistol, better range, inexpensive (but scarce at the moment) ammo and reasonable stopping power.

You can add scopes, red dot sights, vertical grips, angled grips, flashlights, lasers etc to it with the TS model.

JSH1
June 13, 2013, 10:46 PM
$300 is a huge budget for a guns. So if I had $300 and no guns the first gun I would buy is a Crosman 2400KT carbine from the Crosman Custom Shop for $165. Yes, $70 for the Williams peep and adjustable front sight is a bit much but we have $300 to spend. For a even tighter budget you can get the Crosman 2240 CO2 air pistol for $55 on Amazon and the optional stock is $23 so for $80 you have a pistol and carbine. With my remaining $135 I would buy a used NEF/H&R 20 guage single barrel shotgun with a modified choke. There we go, for $300 I have a great air rifle that I can shoot in my garage or backyard for $0.03 per round and a firearm that can hunt just about any game animal in North America and shoot clays.

My first gun and my wife's were Mossberg 12 gauge pump shotguns. (Yes my father-in-law bought my wife a 12 gauge shotgun when she was 12. She has shot it about 6 times in her life.) While a 12 gauge pump is versatile I've never needed a pump. A 20 gauge single shot will do just about everything a firearm is required to do and the whole family can use it. If I was going to really splurge a 20 gauge over and under would be divine but they are a bit spendy.

Agsalaska
June 13, 2013, 11:53 PM
THis thread really got me thinking. Without a doubt a 22lr. But here are some guns to consider on Gunbroker right now

An old Mossberg bolt action 20 gauge with a 24 inch barrel. $99 Buy it Now.
A New England Firearms single shot 20 gauge. $79.
Glenfield 25(bolt action holds 5 or 6) in 22lr for $100.
Rossi 22/20 gauge interchangeable barrels for $138
A rossi 5 shot 38spl, rough finish but fully functional, sold for $137 in May.
A rossi matched pair 30-06/20 sold for 165
A rossi single shot 22-250 sold for $151
A rossi 243/20 gauge sold for $143
A rossi single shot 22lr sold for $87
A rossi trifecta of 22lr/.20/243 sold for $171

So, assuming I need a carry gun, The Rossi 38 is in for $137. So $163.

No 22lr is just not an option. In fact that would be my first priority. So I will go Rossi 22/20 gauge for $138. That way I have my 22lr toy that I cant live without and the ability to hunt with the 20. I shot a doe two years ago from 30 yards and could have again this last year if I wanted. No problem with buckshot in that 20 gauge.

So for $275 I have a CCW weapon, a plinker, and a shotgun. Not much left for ammo. But I bought a box of 40 plinker rounds of 22lr this weekend at Academy for $3. I also saw different types of 20 for under 8. I would probably get buckshot for 5.99. So that leaves me $16 for the 38. That can also be done.

I didnt leave any money for tax. But I could put off some of the ammo for a few weeks assuming more money would come available. But you can accomplish the protection/hunting/plinking requirements for $300

armedaccountant
June 14, 2013, 12:15 AM
We own a 12ga wingmaster and a Taurus .38spl. Bought both last year for $200 or less each. Both have some cosmetic damage but the important parts are in great shape. We owm more expensive firearms but those are the two go to guns if God forbid we needed them. They just work,

mnhntr
June 14, 2013, 12:20 AM
The 12g shotgun IS the most versatile firearm period. Everything fom defense, to hunting small game to large dangerous game.

Agsalaska
June 14, 2013, 12:22 AM
The 12g shotgun IS the most versatile firearm period. Everything fom defense, to hunting small game to large dangerous game.
That may be true, but it would be the last gun I bought if I only had $300.

David E
June 14, 2013, 12:37 AM
The 12g shotgun IS the most versatile firearm period. Everything fom defense, to hunting small game to large dangerous game.

Falls a bit short for concealed carry, tho, and SHTF, too.

tarosean
June 14, 2013, 05:19 AM
Falls a bit short for concealed carry, tho, and SHTF, too.

Ill give ya the first one, but I must disagree with your second.

jrdolall
June 14, 2013, 12:05 PM
If limited to $300 and ONLY one gun and I wanted/needed a pistol then I would buy a Hi-Point 9mm and have enough left over to actually shoot it. My Hi Point has been 100% reliable with no telling how many rounds through it. If I wanted/needed something to hunt with as well as HD then I would find a used pump 12g and buy ammo to actually shoot it or I would find a .22LR bolt or pump and wait for ammo to come back available.

Assuming the ammo shortage wasn't in effect and I could buy TWO guns with my $300 I would find a Hi Point 9mm and a used bolt shotgun or .22 LR but I probably couldn't buy much ammo. Hi Point NIB should be $169 or so and you can almost always find an old pump or single shot 12g or 22 for <$100. A box of bird shot and one box of 9mm would wipe out the $300 but you would be set for just about any scenario including using the Hi Point as a boat anchor.

HoosierQ
June 14, 2013, 12:22 PM
Well this is always a fun question.

Not sure where the heck all these $300 used revolvers are? They sure as heck are not around here!!!

Confined to new guns I'd say either a Ruger p95 which around here are $309 brand new or a Ruger 10/22.

Both are handy. Both are well made. Both are easy to maintain. Common calibers. etc etc.

You can do more with a 10/22 (like hunt). You can take the P95 more places (like just about everywhere it's legal).

Ed Ames
June 14, 2013, 12:47 PM
Not sure where the heck all these $300 used revolvers are? They sure as heck are not around here!!!


Cabela's.

I was in there a few days ago and they had a few centerfire revolvers in the used counter at under $300. Of course they are rarely the low-price leaders so other local gun and pawn shops might be better places to search...but they do have 'em.

c4v3man
June 14, 2013, 02:20 PM
I'd submit the CZ-52 pistol. High velocity, pretty much a poor-man's FN fiveSeven, reliable, and fairly cheap. Ammunition is still available currently at vastly inflated pricing, putting it in competition with 9mm ammo. When the surplus becomes available again, you'll be able to grab ammo for roughly $.10-12 per round (or less), allowing for plenty of practice, and compact stockpiling if you wanted to have an extra 300 rounds on standby.

mnhntr
June 14, 2013, 03:31 PM
Falls a bit short for concealed carry, tho, and SHTF, too.
The OP never said anything about CCW. As for the later I could not disagree more.
If the OP wants a do it all firearm it is the 12g. If the OP wants a do it all handgun I would have said the 357 magnum revolver such as a GP100 or 686.

jrdolall
June 14, 2013, 04:05 PM
I perused a couple of LGS today and found plenty to buy for under $300. 12 and 20g shotguns in single and pump. Several .22 rifles, single and semi, a couple of .38 revolvers under $300 but not enough to buy much ammo.
Polish Makarovs for $249.

benEzra
June 14, 2013, 06:06 PM
Used S&W 5906 (got mine for $299 from CDNN a while back).

Sheepdog1968
June 15, 2013, 12:19 AM
Easy used 30-30 lever action. If not that then a Mossberg 500.

ol' scratch
June 16, 2013, 12:47 AM
An FEG High Power. I have seen them for that price plenty of times. A few years back I picked up my FN High Power for $300 before transfer. It was surplus.

David E
June 16, 2013, 12:51 AM
The OP never said anything about CCW. As for the later I could not disagree more.
If the OP wants a do it all firearm it is the 12g. If the OP wants a do it all handgun I would have said the 357 magnum revolver such as a GP100 or 686.

Neither of which were in the OP

He didn't mention CCW, but its important to ME. You apparently find the shotgun to be right for YOU.

A shotgun has it's place, but as another poster said, it's a distant third choice for me.

SimplyChad
June 16, 2013, 06:35 AM
Used RIA 1911 279 at the pawn shop by my house..... Well it was there :)

mr.trooper
June 16, 2013, 07:19 AM
So many excellent field proven military surplus pistols and rifles with admirable service records availible for that price.

Dont shy away from milsurps - especially not for exagerated ammunition worries. Privi Partisan makes excellent non corrosive, reloadable, brass cased ammunition for almost anything you could run accross, from $.50 per round for soft points in more common cartridges (8mm, 303, etc) to around $1 per round for soft point in more rare offerings (8mm Lebel, 8mm Steyr). Thats less than the cost of comperable ammunition from the "budget" lines of Remington and Winchester for your commercial hunting rifle. BONUS - Things like 303 or 8mm stay on the shelves longer durring panics AND they come back in stock faster than things like 9mm or 5.56 ;)

Heck, $300 would buy you a Pre war Hex Mosin rifle, and a Nagant revolver, with a couple of boxes of ammo for both.

CoyoteSix
June 17, 2013, 05:36 PM
Hey all, I've recently returned from a trip to California. I'm glad to report that I'm safely back in the U.S. :evil::evil:

Anyway, I just watched some trailers for some next generation video games and a short report from Vice on how gang warfare is escalating in South Side Chicago on my favorite gun blog.

Game Trailer: http://www.everydaynodaysoff.com/2013/06/14/tom-clancys-the-division-video-game-operates-hard/#comments

Report on Chicago gang warfare: http://www.everydaynodaysoff.com/2013/06/15/chiraq-chicago-is-a-violent-place/


After watching this I began thinking of what the best guns on budget would be to defend one self and family in the urban environments shown, as well as some of the more rural areas of the United States.


My first thoughts were that on a budget, a serviceable pump 12 gauge would handle most needs for defensive urban environments. Than some kind of sporting rifle in a deer taking caliber with decent glass on it for rural environments.

Any other input THR?

Ed Ames
June 17, 2013, 06:01 PM
I didn't follow your links but I have lived in urban and semi-rural environments.

Long arms are almost totally unsuitable for those living in an urban environment. IMO. They are dangerous to bring into, or take out of, an urban home because anything large and deserving of any sort of case is valuable and valuable stuff causes jealousy and theft. Yeah, you can try to use a tennis bag or the like but even that can get you targeted if it doesn't fit. If you can't carry it in a plastic grocery bag you probably shouldn't have it as part of your self defense plan in an urban environment.

As for rural, the only time I ever really wanted a gun in truly rural areas was when I went into the wilder areas of California to set up my telescope and watch the stars. There the concern was almost entirely coyotes and feral dogs, with maybe some big cats and narcolombians if you let your imagination run wild. A 12ga firing slugs and/or buck would be a fair choice, but so would a lot of things.

Akita1
June 17, 2013, 08:51 PM
Remington 870 and HK USC for those close encounters, both urban and rural. And, as always, a 1911 or Glock 30 as the backup sidearm.

justice06rr
June 17, 2013, 11:34 PM
First choice would definitely be a Mossberg500 12ga. They are around $299 new in my area.

Second option would be a 9mm semiauto like a Ruger P95 or S&W Sigma.

bigalexe
June 18, 2013, 10:58 AM
12 gauge pump shotgun preferable of the Mossberg 500 or Remington 870 family with a 24 or 26 inch barrel

1.) The gun will hunt anything.

2.) The mid-range barrel maintains some portability while still being useful for ranged shots.

3.) Effective defensive weapon.

4.) No it's not concealable but in an EOTWAWKI situation where I actually have to defend myself I'd be far more concerned about the utility of the gun versus the conceal-ability.

hso
June 18, 2013, 11:19 AM
http://www.thehighroad.org/showthread.php?t=718908&highlight=budget

Certaindeaf
June 18, 2013, 11:27 AM
Shotguns work. However, after the VP remarked about just blasting a double out the window many "spoof" (real though) compilations were generated on utoob showing women knocking their heads off and or dropping/doubling the weapon.. and then showing them effectively wielding an AR type platform.

huntsman
June 18, 2013, 11:28 AM
^ that's all well and good but if your only gun is a long gun how do you protect yourself now in public with the continuing decline of safety services and the violence that will increase to fill the void?

I'm a shotgun fan and I believe a 12 gauge is all the long gun I'll ever need but it's not practical to have it with me 24/7 , a pocket pistol will meet that requirement now for $300. and a shotgun would be the second gun I'd add if starting over.

mljdeckard
June 18, 2013, 12:05 PM
The question makes me long for the days when an SKS was $79. At $3-400, I think it's still a good option.

As for a long gun not being suitable, I strongly disagree. There is no job for which a handgun is a better tool. It is more convenient and concealable, not more effective. A handgun is what you use to fight your way back to a long gun that you never should have put down in the first place. With a handgun, you only have the option of close-range engagement.

Certaindeaf
June 18, 2013, 12:13 PM
.There is no job for which a handgun is a better tool..
Kinda like a scalpel and a mattock. A mattock is always better.

pockets
June 18, 2013, 12:32 PM
How many times is this same basic subject going to be discussed?
.

Certaindeaf
June 18, 2013, 12:46 PM
It's going to be a very short discussion if you have to run thirty miles to your precious rifle.

hgte2001
June 18, 2013, 12:53 PM
one good shotgun! Reliable = good. One reliable pistol!

You can do it all with the shotgun from slugs to buck to shot.

The pistol meets the carry for urban.

David E
June 18, 2013, 01:18 PM
4.) No it's not concealable but in an EOTWAWKI situation where I actually have to defend myself I'd be far more concerned about the utility of the gun versus the conceal-ability.

Who said anything about EOTWAWKI?

Who said anything about hunting?

I could argue the virtues of the shotgun in a SHTF scenario, but what would you use it for until then? Hunting? Ok, if money is tight (as implied by the $300 cap) then one needs to consider gas, ammo, license and time costs compared to buying ramen noodles at Dollar General.

But a handgun could be used NOW for CCW and home defense and STILL be useful in SHTF scenarios, so it wouldn't lose its utility then, either.

But I recognize there are no wrong answers here. It's interesting to see everyone else's thoughts.

mljdeckard
June 18, 2013, 01:20 PM
I just bought my wife a like-new XD-9 for $300.

mljdeckard
June 18, 2013, 01:22 PM
Then don't leave it thirty miles away.

Certaindeaf
June 18, 2013, 01:29 PM
Thirty miles, thirty inches.. same same.

mljdeckard
June 18, 2013, 01:48 PM
How?

Potatohead
June 18, 2013, 01:53 PM
There the concern was almost entirely coyotes and feral dogs, with maybe some big cats and narcolombians if you let your imagination run wild

The Zodiac Killer roams the California countryside also, dont forget

David E
June 18, 2013, 01:55 PM
I just bought my wife a like-new XD-9 for $300.

Solid gun. I picked up one in .40 for $250, but its been a couple of years.

Ed Ames
June 18, 2013, 02:23 PM
The Zodiac Killer roams the California countryside also, dont forget

Hah, maybe, but I don't believe in astrology. :)


Discussing the relative effectiveness of rifles in an urban setting misses the big picture.


Here is how it works: every time you open a door or window, someone looks in. Every time the UPS driver comes around, they take note. Every time you arrive in a car, they look at that car. Every time you carry something to/from that car, they are watching. That's true everywhere. It's what neighbors do, from Compton to Chevy Chase. In most areas they watch for gossip, or to see if you really belong...but those things don't matter in urban settings - nobody belongs, and there are more things going on than anyone could ever gossip about. In an urban setting people are more practical. They watch to see how they can benefit. Usually this is relatively benign, but a very important question for a lot of people is, Do you have nice stuff worth stealing?

On another note, one of the interesting psychological traits of a lot of people is that they see weapons everywhere. I've had people mistake my guitar cases, fishing poles, and other stuff for rifles. It's actually somewhat difficult to convince someone that anything long and skinny and carried in a case isn't a gun. A big part of the problem is that most people only put expensive or dangerous things in cases. Nobody would think of putting a baseball bat in a case for example...they are things you carry in hand, swinging. Nobody would carry a tennis racket because, well, nobody plays street tennis.

Combine those two and you have a situation where carrying anything that is even remotely rifle-like will make people think you have valuables...the rifle itself if nothing else.

So the reason I say a long gun is not suitable for an urban environment has nothing to do with effectiveness. That's irrelevant. The problem is that it will be identified and cause you to be targeted. It is something people want, and it is hard to hide.

Now, you can take the position, "So what? If people know I can defend myself they won't attack." Are you home 24/7? Awake 24/7? Does your family have a watch schedule? Do you even have a family?

A disassembled AR is small enough to avoid that problem, but how do you bring it in/out? Case = valuable so you've got to figure a way of carrying it without a case. They have sharp pokey bits that will punch through a paper or plastic bag. Gym bag? Going to a gym is it's own sign of wealth but beyond that you can't pull off a gym bag unless you look like you go to a gym. Laundry hampers work, but usually there are on-site coin-op washers so driving away with your dirty laundry is suspicious in its own right. Do you know anyone who carries a cardboard box to/from his car every day? Tool bag would work if you are a plumber or DirectTV installer but most people aren't.

A handgun can be brought in in a grocery bag, can be carried in and out which means you can go to a range, and so on. It isn't as "effective" but it is far more suitable.

Now I had long guns. I had other nice/large stuff. I kept it all far away from "home" and would pick it up on the way to using it. Why? Because the people I knew in my situation (I was working and making a LOT more than my neighbors, but didn't have enough saved up to buy a house and get out) who weren't careful wound up being burglarized repeatedly. In my case it wasn't 30 miles, but closer to 70.

Reloadron
June 18, 2013, 02:25 PM
How many times is this same basic subject going to be discussed?
.
Beats me but my answer will always be the same. :)

My first thoughts were that on a budget, a serviceable pump 12 gauge would handle most needs for defensive urban environments. Than some kind of sporting rifle in a deer taking caliber with decent glass on it for rural environments.

My first thoughts are it will always depend on each persons unique needs based on their own individual home. Every time this line of discussion comes up people fail miserably to describe their home. Urban (suburbs) for example tells the reader nothing.

Ron

MErl
June 18, 2013, 02:30 PM
regarding transport of a rifle in an urban setting. I regularly ride around with a backpack large enough to carry a broken down 16" AR.

Ed Ames
June 18, 2013, 03:22 PM
Yeah, backpacks are actually a change. It used to be that unless you were a school aged child or off in the woods you didn't carry a backpack. Period. Now people do.

However... they aren't common in the urban environments the OP was talking about. They are common to sport bike riders (sport bike=theft target), yuppies (burglary/mugging victims in waiting), and so on. The only group that isn't painting "steal from me" on themselves by wearing a backpack is a community college student, and you can't pull that role off if you are much past 25. I'm speaking specifically of the sort of environments that started this thread off. From that perspective, almost everyone outside of that environment already has the steal-from-me markings.

Ed Ames
June 18, 2013, 03:27 PM
How many times is this same basic subject going to be discussed?
.

I don't know, but it looks like the conversation will be a lot more confusing now that it has been merged into an unrelated thread.

MErl
June 18, 2013, 06:00 PM
hmmm, now that I think about it a backpack full of rattling beer bottles may scream "Mug ME!" after all. :) I figured there would be curiosity about contents until I overestimated at the grocery store and also have a bag.

I've never lived in a dense urban environment though so don't really know.

doc2rn
June 18, 2013, 06:15 PM
I have gotten an NEF 12g single shot, a Marlin model 60, and still had enough left over for ammo for both for less than $250. I have heard rumor that the 60 has gone up a bit since then, they where $109 for the longest time.

Ed Ames
June 18, 2013, 07:14 PM
...
I've never lived in a dense urban environment though so don't really know.

I have, to the extent you can in the USA. I spent years in Los Angeles and surrounding areas, including such fancy addresses as "a block from the convenience store where the clerk was shot last night", and "the apartment next to abandoned government buildings that have been taken over by homeless people." Oh, and "the door in front of which a neighbor got mugged at gunpoint just now". We even had a riot.

That was in the 90s/early 2ks before LA and OC managed to push all the gang members into the high desert and further east. It was common to hear exchanges of gunfire in the night, and to have people try everything from "aggressive panhandling" to drug dealing to robbery within feet of my front door. It was one of those areas where if anything looked even close to nice someone would try to steal it and think they were justified. They stole even what I considered utter junk.

Anyway, I was young enough I could've carried a backpack, but then you are a student and that makes you a target in other ways. Instead I had cargo pants and if I couldn't fit it in the pockets I didn't need it. Of course groceries and laundry went in and out but not much else without some planning. I owned some long guns but the only guns I ever used (e.g. took to a range) were handguns. Thinking back, that whole scene was a lot worse than I considered it at the time. :(

CZguy
June 18, 2013, 10:32 PM
As for a long gun not being suitable, I strongly disagree. There is no job for which a handgun is a better tool. It is more convenient and concealable, not more effective. A handgun is what you use to fight your way back to a long gun that you never should have put down in the first place. With a handgun, you only have the option of close-range engagement.

Absolutely correct.

whetrock
June 18, 2013, 11:22 PM
I'd recommend, if you're a total noob and have zero experience (I'm no expert, and don't feel 100% right about calling others noobs, but for the sake of discussion.....) with firearms, in your hypothetical life, to go down to the local Academy, and pick up a Maverick 88, for 189.99, and using the rest of your funds to obtain a good supply, and assortment of cheap practice ammo (like the 100 round value packs of #7 or #8) some slugs, 00 Buck, and maybe have a bit left over for a cheapo cleaning rod, and some solvent and lube. I know very little about scatterguns, but am amazed at their versatility, and popularity/modularity. I mean ammo is everywhere for these things, more so than even 22 LR.

Deaf Smith
June 18, 2013, 11:33 PM
I'd take the $300 and buy a rake, a shovel and a wheelbarrow. Then I'd walk around to my neighbors and see who needed any yard work done. Then when l
had enough money I'd buy a used .38 and plenty of ammunition for practice. In my area this would cost at least $400 used, .38 ammo is pretty readily available now at Cabellas. To get a permit in my state would cost around $350 for the class, fingerprints, and permit. Here is another idea, I'll bet some folks would gladly trade an old rifle or shotgun for some help shoveling snow in the winter.
That is the right attitude!

Deaf

David E
June 19, 2013, 08:48 AM
As for a long gun not being suitable, I strongly disagree. There is no job for which a handgun is a better tool. It is more convenient and concealable, not more effective.

Really? Which is more effective: the handgun you have on you or the long gun in the trunk that's 200 yds away? (Or even 5 feet away when accosted in the parking lot)

A handgun is what you use to fight your way back to a long gun

Sooooo tired of this worn out cliche..... :rolleyes: Pray tell, what do you "fight your way back to your long gun with" when you don't have a handgun? Consider a road trip analogy: You live in a "bad place" and you want to "fight your way out" to a better place. But you have to cross a bridge first. "A bridge is what you use to get to a better place." But without that bridge, you ain't going anywhere.

that you never should have put down in the first place.

Even soldiers don't carry their rifles 24/7, but you think it'd be appropriate to do so as we get gas, go shopping or at the dentist?

With a handgun, you only have the option of close-range engagement.

I can ding steel at 100 yds and further and someone recently made a shot around 150 yds with his handgun. But that aside, 99.99999% of bad guys aren't going to initiate something at 100 yds. No, it'll be "close range" as you say and this is exactly the role of the handgun.

My first choice is the handgun.

clg114
June 19, 2013, 02:48 PM
Several people said they bought a XD for $300. If I could buy a XD for $300 right now, I would do it in a heartbeat. I paid $300 for my Ruger P89 and think that's a nice gun for the money. It's not as nice as a XD ,but still a solid, reliable gun.

mljdeckard
June 19, 2013, 03:27 PM
David e,

Notice, in everything you just said, you never once said that the pistol is a better tool. You only said it is more convenient. That is not the same thing. You may or may not be able to make the 100 yard shot with a pistol, but.....could you not make the same shot better, faster, and repeatedly with a rifle?

My lifestyle and training are such that I can keep a rifle in my truck or across the handlebars of my ATV pretty much all the time. I still have a 1911 in my belt, but if I EVER have to GO GET a gun, it will be a rifle, every time, no exceptions.

And soldiers most certainly do keep their rifles on them 24-7. In my unit, we kept BOTH 24-7. When you shower, your buddy is in the same room with your weapons.

Certaindeaf
June 19, 2013, 03:35 PM
.if I EVER have to GO GET a gun, it will be a rifle, every time, no exceptions..
Well that's interesting. Many people would take issue with your statement because handguns are just the ticket many times.
Also, you don't have to go get a gun if you already have one on your person.

mljdeckard
June 19, 2013, 03:41 PM
Still doesn't make it a better tool for the job.

Certaindeaf
June 19, 2013, 03:42 PM
The job? What job is that, pray tell? Have you ever shot a handgun?

Ed Ames
June 19, 2013, 04:25 PM
Still doesn't make it a better tool for the job.

Actually, if the job is to have on your person for the purpose of stopping attacks that may, but are unlikely to, occur as you go about your daily activities, yes it absolutely does.

Have you thought about why government officers... whether military or civilian... typically do not carry rifles as they fulfill their duties? Whether an army general or a sheriff's deputy, the primary weapon they carry is a handgun. That's no accident, and it's no mistake. They can afford either. They are trained with both. They carry a handgun because it is the better tool for the job.

mljdeckard
June 19, 2013, 04:28 PM
Because their bosses are afraid of bad PR. You better believe they keep one in their vehicle.

gym
June 19, 2013, 05:46 PM
A used 357 mag, there are many around for that price. If that is all I had, then a 357 would pretty much fill all purposes.

David E
June 19, 2013, 05:49 PM
David e,

Notice, in everything you just said, you never once said that the pistol is a better tool.

I said the pistol ON you is more effective than the long gun in the trunk.

could you not make the same shot better, faster, and repeatedly with a rifle?

Only after I got the rifle, which may or may not be an option.

I can keep a rifle in my truck or across the handlebars of my ATV pretty much all the time. I still have a 1911 in my belt,

I'm confused: why do you feel the need for a pistol when you keep a rifle so "close" all the time?

mljdeckard
June 19, 2013, 07:29 PM
Because I want a full range of options.

Ed Ames
June 19, 2013, 07:43 PM
So what do you do when you are somewhere your truck and ATV can't go?

David E
June 19, 2013, 08:32 PM
Because I want a full range of options.

You're making my argument for me: the handgun can do things that the long gun cannot,

No one is arguing the pistol outperforms the rifle, just that the key element of the pistol is the convenience you seem to dismiss so readily.

First rule of a gunfight: Have a gun! A long gun in the trunk or even on handlebars isn't as handy as a pistol on the belt. This alone can easily make all the difference.

Agsalaska
June 19, 2013, 10:00 PM
Without a doubt a Ruger 10/22. :)

mljdeckard
June 19, 2013, 11:38 PM
Look at it this way. I often recreate in the very most remote parts of Utah. Unfortunately pot growers do too. In the last few years, they have gotten more and more industrious. I talked to a DEA guy at the outdoor expo. I told him I was pretty sure that the growers were setting everything up, and paying the local shepherds to go check their water once a week. He told me I was wrong. They sit on the grows and they are well-armed. There are rivals to worry about, and there is a LOT of money riding on it. Now, if I ride up a canyon, and I stumble onto something I wasn't supposed to see, and I immediately turn around and go back the way I came, but at the front of the canyon, now there are three guys in the trail......Will I wish I had brought more than my SF-45A (which is usually what is in my chest holster)?

Certaindeaf
June 20, 2013, 12:12 AM
Look at it this way. I often recreate in the very most remote parts of Utah. Unfortunately pot growers do too. In the last few years, they have gotten more and more industrious. I talked to a DEA guy at the outdoor expo. I told him I was pretty sure that the growers were setting everything up, and paying the local shepherds to go check their water once a week. He told me I was wrong. They sit on the grows and they are well-armed. There are rivals to worry about, and there is a LOT of money riding on it. Now, if I ride up a canyon, and I stumble onto something I wasn't supposed to see, and I immediately turn around and go back the way I came, but at the front of the canyon, now there are three guys in the trail......Will I wish I had brought more than my SF-45A (which is usually what is in my chest holster)?
Look at it this way.. are those like $250-300?

David E
June 20, 2013, 12:36 AM
Look at it this way.....

I look at it as posed in the OP:

I have NO guns and only have $300 to buy one.

I'm buying a handgun

mljdeckard
June 20, 2013, 11:58 AM
A used SKS or AK clone?

Certaindeaf
June 20, 2013, 12:15 PM
I look at it as posed in the OP:

I have NO guns and only have $300 to buy one.

I'm buying a handgun
I just looked and you're not the OP nor who I posted to just prior. Say again or perhaps not.

danez71
June 20, 2013, 03:19 PM
In order to break up this circular standoff.....

How about look at it like this....

Buy a used Taurus Judge with the 6.5" barrel. Its a like a pistol, rifle, and shot gun all in one. ;)

David E
June 20, 2013, 07:12 PM
I just looked and you're not the OP nor who I posted to just prior. Say again or perhaps not.

I responded to post #161, not your post #162. I just used your style of response, as we seem to agree.

CZguy
June 20, 2013, 10:45 PM
$300 and no gun at all, but...

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Inspired by the current $1000 to spend on a gun thread.

If you had no gun at all but had $300 to spend, given current market prices and assuming both the gun and suitable ammo would be available, and the ammo would be reasonably priced (or you could roll your own ammo, again for reasonable prices), what gun would you buy with your $300?

Remember the premise--this will be the only gun you can afford to own.

I have a pretty good idea where this will go (I suspect there will be three primary branches), and I know what I'd buy. Just want to see what others think.

I thought that re-posting the OP, might be helpful. :D

David E
June 20, 2013, 11:08 PM
Just $300 and one gun, eh?

Clearly I'd buy a handgun, rifle and shotgun, then with the money left over, I'd buy a couple 1000 rds for each!

:D

mdauben
June 21, 2013, 10:15 AM
If you had no gun at all but had $300 to spend, given current market prices and assuming both the gun and suitable ammo would be available, and the ammo would be reasonably priced (or you could roll your own ammo, again for reasonable prices), what gun would you buy with your $300?

Honestly, baring a smokin' deal on a used gun, there's nothing it that price range that I would actually want. This isn't to dismiss your question, just to clarify that I know next to nothing about that part of the market.

Looking at what I use a gun for; target shooting, plinking, hunting and SD, if I could only have one I'd want one suitable for SD (inclduing CC). That said, I suppose I'd pick a Hi-Point pistol in .45ACP and a good IWB holster. I've never shot one, but it's mentioned a lot as an economy option and the people who actually own them see to be fairly satisfied with them.

David E
June 21, 2013, 10:26 AM
You should hold and shoot a Hi-Point before you select it as your "only" or "first" gun.

There are plenty of used .38 Special S&W revolvers available for under $300. I'd pick one of those over any Hi-Point, caliber notwithstanding.

jrdolall
June 21, 2013, 10:33 AM
Started out as a good thread that is probably applicable to a lot of new and younger shooters that don't have a lot of cash to toss around but want to own a gun. Turns in to a couple of guys bashing each other over what type of weapon is best for every conceivable scenario.

For $300 you can get two guns and possibly three. A single shot 12g, single shot(or possibly semi) .22, and a used .22 pistol around here now that the scare has slacked off. I was in a local pawn shop last week and could have bought all three for less than $300. I actually bought a .22 semi for -$100 and almost bought a single .22 rifle but it was missing the elevation adjustment and I didn't know if I could find one. So I would have had two .22 guns and a 12g for well under $300 and could have gone to Walmart and bought some 12g ammo but I haven't seen .22 around for a while.
If all I wanted was one gun I would probably buy a pump 12g OR a pistol in 9mm. In normal times I could pick up a decent used gun or a new Hi Point and buy a small supply of ammo for $300. I choose 9mm if it is THE ONLY GUN I have because, in normal times, the ammo is much cheaper than .45 and if you only have $300 today it is unlikely you will have scads of cash in the near future.
But the 9mm is nowhere near as good as the 12g for shooting bears and a 45 would be better than the 9mm and a 20g is better than the 12g because of lower recoil and the semi is better than the pump and so forth and so on.......

David E
June 21, 2013, 11:53 AM
Started out as a good thread that is probably applicable to a lot of new and younger shooters that don't have a lot of cash to toss around but want to own a gun. Turns in to a couple of guys bashing each other over what type of weapon is best for every conceivable scenario.

For $300 you can get two guns and possibly three. A single shot 12g, single shot(or possibly semi) .22, and a used .22 pistol around here now that the scare has slacked off. I was in a local pawn shop last week and could have bought all three for less than $300. I actually bought a .22 semi for -$100 and almost bought a single .22 rifle but it was missing the elevation adjustment and I didn't know if I could find one. So I would have had two .22 guns and a 12g for well under $300 and could have gone to Walmart and bought some 12g ammo but I haven't seen .22 around for a while.
If all I wanted was one gun I would probably buy a pump 12g OR a pistol in 9mm. In normal times I could pick up a decent used gun or a new Hi Point and buy a small supply of ammo for $300. I choose 9mm if it is THE ONLY GUN I have because, in normal times, the ammo is much cheaper than .45 and if you only have $300 today it is unlikely you will have scads of cash in the near future.
But the 9mm is nowhere near as good as the 12g for shooting bears and a 45 would be better than the 9mm and a 20g is better than the 12g because of lower recoil and the semi is better than the pump and so forth and so on.......

Sounds like you're trying to have a gun for "every conceivable scenario".......

Except for CCW

Water-Man
June 21, 2013, 12:01 PM
A used S&W Model 10 3" or 4".

beatledog7
June 21, 2013, 01:16 PM
OP here. The original idea was to get a sense of whether posters, pretending they own no guns but having $300 with which to purchase just one gun, would choose a do-most-things-ok firearm or a made-for-my highest-priority-manner-of-use firearm. I chose not to mention that underlying purpose in the original post.

It seems we had, before the thread turned into a bashing contest, about an even split. The general use winner has been some form of 12-ga shotgun, and the specific purpose winner has been something for concealed carry. Not very surprising.

CoRoMo
June 21, 2013, 01:17 PM
A S&W or Ruger revolver in .357. Obviously used.
Yup.

SniperJon
June 21, 2013, 06:38 PM
Used 10/22...Probably run about 200 bucks and a single shot 12 gauge - 100ish

jrdolall
June 21, 2013, 07:04 PM
Sounds like you're trying to have a gun for "every conceivable scenario".......

Except for CCW

Actually I know quite a few people that carry a .22 semi as a CCW. I have done so in the past myself but the small .380s and 9mms have taken over the role of "pocket gun"

David E
June 21, 2013, 07:14 PM
Actually I know quite a few people that carry a .22 semi as a CCW.

They are not very smart by doing so. It simply shows their priorities are not SD based......and there's nothing wrong with that as long as it's understood.

Agsalaska
June 21, 2013, 09:02 PM
They are not very smart by doing so. It simply shows their priorities are not SD based......and there's nothing wrong with that as long as it's understood.
It would not be my first priority. My first priority would be a gun I can enjoy. I would rather take the miniscule risk of not having a CCW for the pure joy I get shooting a good rimfire rifle. And I could easily defend my house with a Ruger 10/22 although that may not be the gun I would pick.

JSH1
June 21, 2013, 10:16 PM
Sounds like you're trying to have a gun for "every conceivable scenario".......

Except for CCW

That isn't surprising. The majority of gun owners don't have a concealed carry permit and many of those that do don't actually carry.

danez71
June 21, 2013, 10:21 PM
No one is arguing the pistol outperforms the rifle, just that the key element of the pistol is the convenience you seem to dismiss so readily.


So... wait a minute. You're picking an underperforming weapon for its convenience rather than effectiveness, reliability, or versatility?


I think you've already given the most appropriate response to that.

They are not very smart by doing so. It simply shows their priorities are not SD based......and there's nothing wrong with
that as long as it's understood.

KYamateur
June 21, 2013, 10:25 PM
I'd look at the taurus line and get either a revolver in 38 or a 9mm. I'm not a big Taurus fan but I've been around alot of people shooting them and they seem to be accurate and reliable enough. I would just stay away from their pocket type automatics. I've seen a few of them have feeding/ejecting problems. Overall I think taurus is fine for self defense. I don't know how well they would hold up for frequent target shooting though. My brother has a millenium pro in 9mm and it has been shot to death and still fires every time the trigger is pulled. IMHO $300 won't buy you a very nice used smith & wesson revolver or any of the top polymer framed 9mm pistols (glock, springfield, Beretta, etc)

David E
June 21, 2013, 11:45 PM
I could easily defend my house with a Ruger 10/22 although that may not be the gun I would pick.

Which was exactly my point.

A .22 is a great fun, versatile gun, but its not the best choice for defense. As long as that's recognized and the limitations are accepted, then fine.

CZguy
June 21, 2013, 11:55 PM
I'd look at the taurus line and get either a revolver in 38 or a 9mm. I'm not a big Taurus fan but I've been around alot of people shooting them and they seem to be accurate and reliable enough. I would just stay away from their pocket type automatics. I've seen a few of them have feeding/ejecting problems. Overall I think taurus is fine for self defense. I don't know how well they would hold up for frequent target shooting though. My brother has a millenium pro in 9mm and it has been shot to death and still fires every time the trigger is pulled. IMHO $300 won't buy you a very nice used smith & wesson revolver or any of the top polymer framed 9mm pistols (glock, springfield, Beretta, etc)

I'm curious why you would choose a Taurus over a S&W model 10?

If I could have but one gun. I need a CCW daily so to stay within budget I would buy a S&W Model 10 with 4 in barrel.

But I would avoid fast food and sodas like the plague, and in no time at all I would have saved up enough for a used Remington 870.

I would then collect all of the used stuff laying around the house that was no longer needed, and have a Garage sale. I would run right down to my LGS and pick up a really nice old Winchester 69a for a great price.

Problem solved. :D

David E
June 22, 2013, 12:08 AM
So... wait a minute. You're picking an underperforming weapon

Underperforming how? I don't typically have to make a 300 yd shot. A rimfire rifle or shotgun would have trouble making that long of a shot, too. For what I do, a handgun is a better choice.

for its convenience

A key element for me!

rather than effectiveness,

A handgun with me is far more effective than a long gun somewhere else.

reliability,

My handgun(s) are very reliable.

or versatility?

For ME, a handgun IS more versatile!

The OP asked a simple question: you own no guns, you have $300, what would you buy?

Many asked for qualifiers: for hunting? SD? SHTF?, etc. I actually posted that the OP purposely left that out, so YOU would decide what was most important to you. As such, there are no wrong answers. Then a poster argued the worn out "you use a handgun to fight your way back to the long gun you shouldn't have left in the first place" cliche. Aside from the fact that the cliche asserts you own 2 guns, (contrary to the OP) the cliche falls apart in 99% of plausible scenarios.

MY first gun would be a handgun. It's not a wrong choice, it's MY choice.

danez71
June 22, 2013, 10:24 PM
Underperforming how? I don't typically have to make a 300 yd shot. A rimfire rifle or shotgun would have trouble making that long of a shot, too. For what I do, a handgun is a better choice.



A key element for me!



A handgun with me is far more effective than a long gun somewhere else.



My handgun(s) are very reliable.



For ME, a handgun IS more versatile!

The OP asked a simple question: you own no guns, you have $300, what would you buy?

Many asked for qualifiers: for hunting? SD? SHTF?, etc. I actually posted that the OP purposely left that out, so YOU would decide what was most important to you. As such, there are no wrong answers. Then a poster argued the worn out "you use a handgun to fight your way back to the long gun you shouldn't have left in the first place" cliche. Aside from the fact that the cliche asserts you own 2 guns, (contrary to the OP) the cliche falls apart in 99% of plausible scenarios.

MY first gun would be a handgun. It's not a wrong choice, it's MY choice.



Ahhh........

I'll just cut to the chase here.

I'm not sure how to word it... and I'm not directing this solely to you... but....

You've (and others) countered, found faults or deficiencies, and/or criticized several posts by others for THEIR choice of a rifle, shotgun, and 22s.

If you're going to make YOUR choice for YOU.... then respect THIER choice THEMSELVES.


The circular banter I referred to earlier is silly as there isn't "a" perfect gun for "all" people in "every" situation.


This isn't new info.... we all know this.

MistWolf
June 22, 2013, 10:54 PM
ngnrd,

That's an intriguing list, don't you think? A person could outfit his personal collection reasonably well with nothing but ≤$300 firearms.


Savage 110 in 7mm mag with scope base and iron sights- No
a couple of 25acp and 380acp pistols- Maybe
Mosin 91/30- NO!
a few 20 and 12 gauge shotguns- Possible, depending on model
a couple of 22 rifles and a few 22 pistols- Depending on model
KelTec P11 9mm- No
Lee Enfield MK-4 .303- YES!
Sporterized M98 7mm Mauser with scope rings- Yes
Savage 110 in 30-06- No
Hi Point 9mm and 45's- Over my dead body
Yugoslavian M57 Tokarev- Eh...
a couple of muzzle loaders- Not my thing
Savage M42 22/.410 over-under- Not interested in a .410
Remington 770 in 300WM, scoped- I'd have to look into the 710
Yugo SKS- No
Rossi 357mag- Friends don't let friends buy Rossi's
Taurus single action 357mag- See comment about Rossi's
Remington 710 in 300WM- No


Out of that list, there are two I'd buy and three more I'd consider depending on the model. With all due respect, it's not an impressive list

David E
June 22, 2013, 10:56 PM
You've (and others) countered, found faults or deficiencies, and/or criticized several posts by others for THEIR choice of a rifle, shotgun, and 22s.

Ahhhhhh......I'll just cut to the chase here......I said multiple times that there are no wrong answer here!

If someone makes an inaccurate statement, I might be compelled to point out the inaccuracy. If I said a .38 Special handgun was just as accurate and powerful as a rifle, then I'd expect someone to challenge me on that point.

danez71
June 23, 2013, 12:02 AM
Ahhhhhh......I'll just cut to the chase here......I said multiple times that there are no wrong answer here!.



I said multiple times that there are no wrong answer here!.

If someone makes an inaccurate statement, I might be compelled to point out the inaccuracy. If I said a .38 Special handgun was just as accurate and powerful as a rifle, then I'd expect someone to challenge me on that point.

Its obvious the benefits of the size of a pistol is high on YOUR list.

When some have stated their choice of some type of long gun, and have not made an inaccurate statement, why criticize their choice?

e_thunderburd
June 23, 2013, 12:07 AM
Mossberg 500 Persuader. It will do anything you want, if you respect its limitations. It is essentially a musket.

David E
June 23, 2013, 01:16 AM
[Quote]When some have stated their choice of some type of long gun, and have not made an inaccurate statement, why criticize their choice?

Cant find where I criticized anyone's choice, in and of itself.

When someone claims a shotgun "does it all," that's inaccurate as it does not fulfill the CCW role.

When someone rolls out the tired "you use your handgun to fight your way back to your rifle" cliche, I pointed out the basic premise of the OP was violated, so I also pointed out the fallacy of that cliche.

Once more I'll say that there are no wrong answers as far as what gun folks would buy with $300

I am baffled, yet fascinated by the choice made by some people, but it IS their choice!

Hondo 60
June 23, 2013, 08:19 AM
All good answers so far. Please, keep them coming.

I disagree, respondents are not staying under $300.

I've seen several replies saying they want a S&W or Ruger, but at today's prices, I don't see them at or under $300.

A used Taurus M85 or maybe a Rossi 357 just MIGHT fit the parameters.

Ed Ames
June 23, 2013, 08:41 AM
I disagree, respondents are not staying under $300.

I've seen several replies saying they want a S&W or Ruger, but at today's prices, I don't see them at or under $300.


I saw a usable used S&W revolver, a 1917 hand ejector, for under $300 in a shop just yesterday.

David E
June 23, 2013, 09:33 AM
I disagree, respondents are not staying under $300.

I've seen several replies saying they want a S&W or Ruger, but at today's prices, I don't see them at or under $300.

Used P-89's and P-95's seem to be easily found for under $300.

Bud's and J&G typically have used S&W Model 10's & 64's and such for $280 or so. Right now, Buds' shows a HB M-10 for $279.

Gunbroker always has Model 10's for less than $300, but you need to look for them.

They are available.

jrdolall
June 23, 2013, 11:39 AM
Saw a Ruger P83 yesterday at a local gun store for $299 so I could have picked it up for $250 probably. They also had several .22 semis for less than $150. I didn't see any "hunting" rifles for under $300 but plenty of old shotguns. A couple of Mosins for under $200 which is still too high for that rifle.

All in all I think, around here at least, there are plenty of options to consider based on your intended uses.
Edit: That was a Ruger P-89 not P-83

EdJennings
June 23, 2013, 01:45 PM
If you shop around you might still find a S&W 5906 9mm for $300. Might be a bit scruffy at that price, but they are excellent guns and almost indestructable.

akodo
June 23, 2013, 02:31 PM
If you live in a rural area you probably aren't following me. I'm expressing urban/suburban reality.

I was obliquely pointing out that shotguns are huge, and bringing them down to reasonable size involves paying the tax man $200. Unless you do that, you have a very difficult time using a shotgun for anything but home defense and licensed hunting of in-season game, and even that may be difficult depending on your living situation.

Uncut shotguns must be disassembled and packed into non-gun cases (baseball bags or whatever) to safely move from the house unless you have an attached garage. Even there you must be careful - people will break into your house to steal musical instruments and sporting equipment almost as eagerly as they'll break in to steal guns.

In my world, a shotgun is a special-use luxury. A handgun is far more generally useful. That's because I'm basically urban.

I live in an urban area and cannot agree LESS.

Okay, obviously you don't want to be attempting to do house-clearing with a 30 inch goose gun. Still, this attitude that any shotgun with a barrel longer than 14 inches is unsuited to home defense is absolutely silly.

Take a look at the shotguns we used in the trenches and were used by police departments for the past 80 years. Most of them were sporting 20 inch barrels, and people were clearing houses with them just fine. It has only been recently that people who routinely kick in doors in hostile houses have decided "if 18-20 inch long is good, then 12-14 inch is even better!"

While I fully agree that '14 inch is better!' the degree to which it is better in active house clearing is extremely small. And also, active house clearing is the ONLY roll where 12-14" inch is better. (Concealability isn't a roll...it's a trait)

Finally, when I think about 'home defense' I don't think about actively clearing my dwelling of potential hostiles, I think of getting people to the bedroom, one calls 911 while the other points gun at bedroom door from the furthest corner from it. In such a set-up barrel length doesn't come into play. The one place it MIGHT is leaving the master bedroom to collect children, and even then I'd rather have a 20" shotgun than a handgun.

a 20 inch shotgun can be used with slugs to hunt deer, it can with harder lead slugs be used for bear defense. It can be used with fun at the range blasting pumpkins. It works great for home defense. It works great for clearing a house (although yes, a 14 inch version would be slightly better), it can dispatch that skunk or raccoon that is likely rabid, and it can be used for hunting squirrel, rabbit, and the like. It can even be used to take bird on the wing even though it doesn't point and flow quite so naturally as a nice 28 inch barrel would.

As far as being able to 'secret' a handgun better than an 18 inch shotgun...that's really a flaw of your community not the shotgun. Besides even if you have to 'secret' a gun around I disagree that the challenge of doing so with the much bigger shotgun is enough to offset the fact that a shotgun is so much more potent and versatile than a handgun.

For starters, if you absolutely had to break one down to transport it to and from the car, why is that so killer? Single and double barrel guns are EXREMELY easy to break down. My suggested bolt action shotgun cut down to 18.5", often a just a pair of screws (one behind the trigger guard and one in front of the mag well) hold the gun proper to the stock. If moving the gun from car to home needs to be done 'in secret' with great frequency I'd go to the hardware store and get a pair of thumbscrews of matching thread and length for less than a dollar and be able to take the stock on and off with no tools. Now you DO have something that could be thrown in a raquetball bag.

But honestly, left at full length you could wrap a rug around the case, or put it in a long box then for all the neighbors would know you bought some new curtain rods, blinds, or maybe a lamp. If the place is so gun unfriendly you could use one of those rectangular hard side gun cases and most would assume it was a guitar or something like that not a shotgun.

Still...keeping with the 'cheap' theme a nodescript box like blinds come in would be more than enough to keep your 'secret'.

Regarding carrying the gun around to 'stop a rape'. More and more states are getting the picture going 'shall issue' on CCW. However many of those places require classes and a license both which add up. If we are really doing a 'budget gun' then unless you are choosing a $200 handgun because that leaves $100 for CCW classes and license, then the number of handguns available at that price point drops dramatically. If you take the stance of 'well you can conceal without the permit' then that is true...but then you can also saw off your shotgun without the paperwork too. I am answering assuming the person is going to be law-abiding with their gun. While I totally agree that a 38 special to the skull will effectively kill a deer, I don't think I know of any place where it would be a legal hunting gun for deer. A shotgun with slug is legal all over the place for deer hunting. Shooting rabbit and squirrel with a 38 revolver is indeed legal most places, but a shotgun and #4 birdshot is a heck of a lot more effective.

Finally..

You are NOT going to find a perfect gun for all rolls at $300. You aren't going to find a perfect gun for all rolls at even $3000 even with a free pass on all NFA rules.

But regardless of the price, the shotgun comes closer than any other to covering all the bases.

Ed Ames
June 23, 2013, 02:57 PM
Umm...why did you quote my post for that?

For the first half: I never said anything about 14" barrels or clearing houses. Learn how to carry your gun. Low ready, look it up. This ain't rocket science and if you can't carry a 20"+ barrel gun through a standard house either you are ignorant or a hoarder.

However, I think a gun that is only useful inside your home, that you can't easily take out of your home in functional ready-to-use condition, is nice but it comes second, or third. That's the reality of long guns in most urban, and many suburban, settings. This shouldn't be a surprise IMO. It's like...if you are buying cookware, you should buy a skillet before you get a waffle iron. Waffle irons are great but they are only useful for a few meals (those involving waffles) whereas a skillet can be used to make everything from hamburgers to pie. Common sense says you buy the most used stuff first.

As for secreting guns, no kidding it's a problem with the community and if you think carrying stuff around wrapped in rugs is a solution that will avoid neighborly attention of the "he's got something worth stealing and I just saw him leave, let's see what else he's got" sort we don't have much in common and as long as you aren't living in my home it's none of my business.

As for $300, you are the victim of a moderator there. There were two threads, one on urban guns and one on $300 guns. A moderator got bored and merged them. Viva la confusion! The post you were quoting was written for the thread about urban guns.

beatledog7
June 23, 2013, 03:33 PM
As for $300, you are the victim of a moderator there. There were two threads, one on urban guns and one on $300 guns. A moderator got bored and merged them.

Ah! That helps explain why this thread took the path it took.

Vikingsoftpaw
June 23, 2013, 07:26 PM
$300 won't get you much these days. Marlin Mod 60 or maybe a S&W 22A.

Bump that up to say $450-500, you're getting into 3rd Gen Smith and Wesson Range. Many others in the used market can be had in that range.

Justin Holder
June 23, 2013, 09:04 PM
If I woke up tomorrow and all my guns were gone and I only had $300 to spend. . . . . . . . . I'm going to the liquor store!

sixgunner455
June 25, 2013, 04:39 AM
If all my guns were gone tomorrow, and somehow I had $300 to spend to get another - well, I might just order one of those used S&W .38 revolvers. I've got one right now I paid $129 for, but it was kind of hammered in the finish, that was a number of years ago, and they had a bunch of them in the case to pick from. My first one I paid $210 for, but the finish was in better shape. Should've kept that one. I've got a M13 .357, too, but it was $500. My most important gun on a daily basis is my 642, because that's what's in my pocket most of the time. I paid $329 for it. A Taurus 85 might sneak in there, instead, since the 642 seems to cost a bit more these days, if you can find one. I reload for .38 and .357, so I'd not be too worried about ammunition.

I might get another Ruger MKII. Mine, I paid $179 for as a broke college student who liked to shoot and wanted a pistol. .22 prices at the time meant I could afford to shoot it on my minimum wage job. Carried it in a backpack or in my belt when I needed to, no problem. CCW permit in that state was cheap and easy to get.

Yeah, I'd get a pistol if I had no gun due to fire or theft and limited budget to use. I like carrying a gun, not just having a rifle or shotgun in the house. I'd probably be buying used, and I wouldn't be picky about the finish. If I were able to scrounge up some more money, I'd get a rifle or shotgun of some kind or other.

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